Mister Game Person Fellow's page

The only reason I was worried about it is because--and I don't think this is much of a spoiler--bane arrows come up in some of the Paizo campaigns, and I'm trying to figure out how to balance them. I agree, if you can't buy them individually, it takes care of the price.

BUT! That durable arrow item EXACTLY answers my question about magic, though. Broken or not, if magic is expended on one use (and it clearly implies this to be the case, as per the feat) then that pretty much takes care of any and all balance issues. And the product is Paizo, so it's legit, as they say in the vernacular.

Any issues with broken or unbroken arrows are so trivial, without magic, I see no problem with just deciding RAW or house rules as needed.

If I use an arrow as a dagger, should it still break, as per ammunition rules? Furthermore, should a magic arrow (with improved hardness and HP) break as easily?

I believe RAW state they do not break; but I also believe magic arrows are too powerful, in that case.

RAW implies that ammunition only breaks when used as ammunition. For example, RAW states that ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being lost, or destroyed. Losing or destroying an arrow by thrusting it into empty space like a dagger seems silly.

Additionally, we all know that Pathfinder is an evolution of D&D, and 3.5 explicitly stated that improvised weapons broke 50% of the time. This rule is noticeably absent in Pathfinder, and I tend to believe that such an omission was intentional on the part of the developers.

As there are no explicit rules for breaking improvised weapons, I believe introducing a rule, or applying ammunition rules to improvised weapons, implies that similar rules should be applied to ALL fragile improvised weapons. For example, would a glass bottle break, or should one just assume that such items begin with the fragile quality? Introducing the fragile quality to ammunition-improvised weapons would be a house rule solution.

HOWEVER, having unbreakable improvised arrows becomes potentially unbalanced, which is why I pose the question in the first place. Individual arrows are much, MUCH cheaper than actual weapons. The -4 penalty is quite large at low levels, and mostly takes care of the issue. But certain powerful bonuses can counteract this penalty. For example, a +1 arrow with a +1 magical enhancement costs about 160 GP (8K/50), a very reasonable price at level 2, or even level 1 with the right starting trait. Such a weapon will function as a dagger with -3/+1 + enhancement. At such a low price, a player could acquire several different types of Bane arrows, for a wide variety of enemies. This boosts the bonus to -1/+10!! (2d6+3 damage.) This almost negates the penalty and MORE than compensates for damage.

I've crunched some numbers, and I believe that the Bane enhancement is the only one powerful enough to negate the -4 penalty completely at low-level prices. Other enhancers will give the players specific energy bonuses, but are of debatable utility. Of course, it costs only a little extra money to increase the enhancement bonus. a +2 bane arrow, for example, completely negates the improvised weapon penalty.

This all assumes that players purchase these items themselves. I've noticed many campaigns use these low-cost items as common treasure rewards, making the issue more prevalent.

I believe that such arrows would give non-combat builds (or even a considerable edge early in the game. Later on, at levels 3+, I can see these items being much less useful.

Thoughts?

edit: I've come up with a plethora of ways to balance these proposed arrows, in game. However, I would like to know what more experienced gamers feel is the RAW analysis--and if the RAW analysis requires such balancing.

I have a question about the Skipping Song encounter, Event #2. Does anyone have any advice about how to act that out? My acting ability is... sub-par, and I'm worried that simply reading the poem at the table will be less spooky and more silly.

What did you guys do to establish atmosphere and tone at the table, for this (and other spooky events)? Aside from music, I mean. I'd love to use the soundtrack like the editors recommended, but I have enough on my plate already.

I found a youtube video of the skipping song. I could just describe the scenario and pull that up. I'm worried enough about proper presentation that I'm considering pulling that encounter altogether. Thoughts?

EDIT:
I should also mention that I've eliminated using trust points altogether--too much balancing and bookkeeping. Without the trust reward, I also think that the encounter kind of feels... pointless? The PCs don't really have any meaningful impact on the encounter, or effect the outcome at all, it's just me reading at them. Am I being too overbearing/worried about it?

I think that my balancing challenge is that Coup De Grace (assuming skeletons can do this) doesn't just go to dying, it goes straight to dead. So its rather difficult for me to expose the players to it without risking, well, death.

I think you're right, Griffyn... My problem is that I can easily see my party going with only one dispel undead player, and a lot of edged weaponry. That might be bad enough to give the skeletons enough time to pose a serious risk, to at least one player. On the other hand, I like that I can just add more skeletons and throw in stirges, if it's too easy.

Maybe... what are the rules for haunts? Is it possible to add ANOTHER haunt to the piper, which simply spams a skeleton, much like the Marshwater Maurader's flying skulls? Can a haunt function as a monster-spamming trap that resets, like other haunts? That way it'd be less like a chore if they decided to tackle it piecemeal, and give a bit more challenge. I can always hand-waive extra skeletons being generated, but it'd be nice if I had rules to explain where they're coming from.

I just thought of something, too: if any skeletons manage to get into striking range of a player, I can have them attack with a claws instead of weapons, to lower the Fort save afterwords. The proper flavor text, with just a dab of K.C.C.'s throat ripping, should make that option believable AND terrifying. (edit: just did the math and checked the stats, nevermind. About the same.)

I have a minor question about the Piper of Illmarsh. There seems to be some agreement that this 'hold person' based haunt is too weak, and I wanted to know how/if people balanced it.

I don't understand how the encounter is too weak. As I understand it, if the Piper actually manages to cast Hold Person on a PC, isn't that PC helpless, and vulnerable to Coup De Grace attacks from the skeletons and anything else nearby?

It seems to me that, if the Piper manages to tag even one person with Hold Person, all it takes is one enemy to get near to that player and a full round action, and that would cause serious trouble. Are there not enough skeletons? Should the skeletons not be smart/cunning enough to use Coup De Grace? Is the will save too low to be any use? Or, (most likely) am I misinterpreting the rules?

Great! All of those are great ideas. I look forward to any final letters you might have for book 6! (I have no idea if they're even applicable to it. I haven't bought anything but book 1, yet.)

Yes, I agree, thanks for posting them--but I have one (fairly basic) question: how does Adivian get these letters to the players without them being able to trace the letters back to the big evil villain?

I assume I can just kind of hand wave the details of the letter origin--after all, it's not like there's an official, standardized Ustalav postal service which requires a return address. (At least, I would assume so. I am unfortunately not that well versed in the pathfinder universe)

But, hand-waving aside, I'd like to know what you guys did to get the letters to the PCs consistently and mysteriously. Is there... is there a spell, like sending, that will do the trick? This will be my first time running a game in several years, and I am ashamed to admit I need to review the core rulebook first.

Hey, my group is about to finish up The Bastards of Erebus. I could post tons of feedback, but instead, I'll keep it brief:

1. Having rolled for the sewer encounters ahead of time, I had mapped out 6 encounters for my party, most of which I thought would be quick and easy. However, they were, to put it tactfully, completely dysfunctional as a group. Additionally, I had to sick a group of hellknights on them because they spent so much time out of game, talking. By the time they managed to actually get out of the sewers, they had gone through 4 normal encounters, plus one hellknight 'punishment' encounter. They were VERY eager to leave after that many. I think 4 encounters is a good number for your players, and if they are a very good, very efficient group, perhaps as many as six. But no more then that.

Oh, and I used the book's suggestion of a hungry otyugh. Despite passing all sorts of knowledge checks they still decided to assault the CR 4 creatures. I ended up having to nerf it by dropping the full attack and reducing the CR experience reward appropriately.

2. From a layout perspective, my players got kind of bored with Part III, next time, I would maybe find some sort of dice rolling to mix in with the pure roleplay aspects of things. Maybe some sort of skill checks around the hideout.

3. My players ALSO got kind of bored (they're dysfunctional and have the attention span of goldfish) when I was describing the church at the end of Part Five, pages 34-35. I would recommend maybe spacing that description out; perhaps have Arael describe a bit before "horse drama," then janiven describe some before one of those optional encounters.

We'll see how the assault on the church goes--I'm crossing my fingers that they don't all forget to bring potions, lord knows i've been throwing them at the party.