Hi guys,
I apologize if this has been asked before. I couldn't find it after a lot of searching .... maybe I phrased my search terms wrong.
Anyway:
Some archetypes give special abilities where it says something like "do a X maneuver. If successful, Z happens"
Here, X is a maneuver like "trip" and Z is something that is not the usual effect of the X maneuver.
I read several such abilities up in their own threads and I noticed that sometimes people read such descriptions as "Z happens in addition to the usual effect of X", while sometimes they read it as "Z happens instead of the usual effect of X".
To give you a specific example:
Flowing Monk ( http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classArchetypes/monk.html #_flowing-monk-(archetype) ) has the ability "Redirection": "At 1st level, as an immediate action, a flowing monk can attempt a reposition or trip combat maneuver against a creature that the flowing monk threatens and that attacks him. If the combat maneuver is successful, the attacker is sickened for 1 round (Reflex DC = 10 + 1/2 the monk's level + monk's Wisdom modifier to halve the duration), plus 1 additional round at 4th level and for every four levels afterward (to a maximum of 6 rounds at 20th level). [...]"
In forum threads I have read on this, people naturally thought that the trip (maneuver X) happens and that Z (the sicken effect) happens in addition to the subject being tripped.
Now, for the other option, the Free Hand Fighter ( http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/fighter.html ) has the ability "Timely Tip":
"At 9th level, a free hand fighter can make a disarm combat maneuver against a target he threatens as a move action to push aside the target's shield. If successful, the target loses its shield bonus to AC against the free hand fighter's next attack."
In this case, people (for example in threads listing why they thought the Free Hand Fighter was terrible) read that one does the disarm maneuver (X) and then Z (target loses shield bonus) happens instead of the usual disarm effect (like, the opponent loosing his weapon).
The same happens, by the way, again with the next ability of the Free Hand Fighter, with "Interference":
"At 13th level, a free hand fighter can make a disarm or trip combat maneuver against a target he threatens as a move action to push his opponent off balance. If successful, the target becomes flat-footed."
Am I wrong in thinking that in all these instances, the Z-effect should be taken on top of the normal maneuver effect of X (like it is done in the case of the Flowing Monk)? So, in the case of the Free Hand Fighter, obviously his disarms would be vastly improved by having additional effects (instead of variant effects).
Again, I apologize if I ask this for the millionth time or if it is completely obvious and I just can't see it.
I'd appreciate comments :)
