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Let's say you had something like Spell Perfection (Shadow Weapon)

Since Weapon Focus gets doubled on similar spells.... would Power attack?

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ShadowcatX wrote:
Matthias_DM wrote:
leo1925 wrote:

@Matthias DM

In Golarion there are no clerics without a deity.


What I wrote came form the Core Rule Book.

Pathfinder society & James Jacobs have both stated that while Clerics, per core rule book, don't have to have a deity, in Golarion, they do. The CRB isn't Golarion specific.

Thanks much. I guess all those golarion dieties in the cleric section make you feel as though it is.

@ All of you

You sound like a bunch of whiners. DMs ban things because they are OP. Period.

Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition has become cakewalk for my group of players because they have an alchemist throwing fire as a touch attack for like 90-100 damage a round at range +50 splash damage reflex half. He almost completely turned the Black Magga into a JOKE!

He can do that for 3-4 combats a day no problem. I as a DM will not allow an alchemist in further games, or I will limit the touch attack to a normal attack.

Guess what happens when a story becomes easy and you breeze through combats..... combat ,itself, becomes boring and every other player is left to think "what am I doing here?"

It is in the DMs power to prevent this and he should.

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It sounds like you are not confronting problems head on with some level headed reason.

"Hey guys, I'm strapped for cash. Let's potluck our gatherings."

Also, it sounds like your cleric and druid are confused about their spells. Let them take a book home with them and do some reading in the spell section (mark it off for them).

I bet they are the ones that text alot too. Everything you mentioned is a symptom of boredom. They are bored. They don't know what their spells do.... and my guess.... is that bugging you, PVP each other, and texting are the most fun they are having.

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Thomas Long 175 wrote:

Actually since rage lance pounce the barbarian is pretty commonly accepted as, if not the best damage very close to it. The best actual martial is the paladin because of his healing, utility, and great damage. Fighter comes in last for the martials after level 11.

I would agree with this assessment. However, it's not going to stop me from playing a barbarian sometimes... why?

Because RAAAAAWWWWRRRRR!!!!! I like the roleplay.

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Everyone is forgetting that rogues should be getting the alpha strike as well as scouting combats so that casters can prepare.

Damage Dealing Rogue with Plenty of Skills: :

Human Rogue 10
(20 point buy)

Str 22 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 7
BAB +7
Initiative: +9
Sneak Attack: +5d6
Traits: Reactionary, Killer
Rogue Talents:Minor Magic - (Ghost Sound), Major Magic - (True Strike), Powerful Sneak, Deadly Sneak
Advanced Rogue Talents:
Feats - Power Attack, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Initiative, Double Slice, Skill Focus (Stealth)
Skill Points:100
+2 Keen Scimitar (18k), +2 keen kukri (18k), Cloak of the Elvenkind(2.5k), Belt of Giant Strength +2 (4k) +21500 GP in "Other Gear"

I am the alpha strike, I start combat.
While hidden: True Strike, still hidden.
Surprise Round: Opening Attack, Power Attack 2 handing the Scrimitar +30 (1d8+20 15-20/x2, +23 sneak attack average)
Against an AC 24, that' is (.95(47.5)+(.3)(.95)(26.5))
Average Alpha Strike Damage: 52.7

Round 1, I gain initiative or target denied dex or flanking. We will call it a flat +2 to my attack for any of those to make it easy and average it out. Quick Draw my Kukri.

+15/+10 (1d8+8 15-20/x2, +23 sneak) +15/+10 (1d4+8 15-20/x2, +23 sneak)

2(.6(35.5)+.3(.6)(14.5)) = 2(21.3 +2.61)= 47.8
2(.35(35.5)+.3(.35)(14.5)) = 2(12.425+1.5225) = 27.9

Average Round 1 Damage = 75.7

Oh, and PS. That first attack could be a trip at a whopping +20, they either stay on the ground or I get an attack of opportunity and they waste their first turn anyway.

Also, I have 100 skill points to max out 10 skills and an amazing Stealth (+27) at level 10... and that's not even completely maximized.

What do I sacrfice? AC and a little HP and a little damage and the easy play of "I charge da monsta!!!!"
What do I gain? Trap detection and amazing skill power.

This was actually a 20 point build all along, I just wrote 25 point down.

Edit: Also, why does everyone go weapon finess? It sucks.

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Marthkus wrote:
Nebelwerfer41 wrote:
Matthias_DM wrote:

Everyone is forgetting that rogues should be getting the alpha strike as well as scouting combats so that casters can prepare.

** spoiler omitted **

Edit: Also, why does everyone go weapon finess? It sucks.

Take out the True Strike before combat, you can't take it with Minor Magic, it is a 1st level spell. Also, you can't cast while hidden, or at the very least, the target would be aware of your presence because it has a verbal component. The bolding is mine:

Pathfinder PRD wrote:
Verbal (V): A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice. A silence spell or a gag spoils the incantation (and thus the spell). A spellcaster who has been deafened has a 20% chance of spoiling any spell with a verbal component that he tries to cast.
He used major magic to get true strike...

Both of you LOL. REad up on spell like abilities The bold is mine.

The Book wrote:

Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components).

Also, Think about it. They are flat footed and cannot take an attack of opportunity. You can get a +20 to a surprise maneuver of ANY kind (disarm anyone) and at their flat footed CMD!

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drbuzzard wrote:

Yeah, I really hate having to carry someone at a table. I find it completely miserable when I have most of a table that needs to be carried. Did a module a few weekends ago and the table consisted of:

My fighter
another well built fighter
gimpy inquisitor/fighter
gimpy druid/fighter

The two gimps might as well have not been there at all. At least the people playing the pregens managed to pull some weight (in particular the cleric, the pregen rogue is pretty lousy). Eventually the fighter/druid got whacked and there wasn't a noticeable difference in combat efficacy in the following encounters.

6 PCs at your table? You shouldn't have to carry ANYTHING. I LOL at your troubles. Something else is wrong here, and with your party build... you should thank your lucky stars that you had someone there with skills enough to carry along the story.

In fact, that has been paizo modules greatest downside to me. They marginalize skills and traps in their products.

Only 2-3 traps per book and investigative measures don't matter because the story will go on, giving you the answers to your dilemma. If there was a true penalty for not having skills... it should be just as devastating as having crap AC and BAB. I would make a party pay through their collective arses to hire investigators because they didn't have the skills track a killer through the woods or couldn't keep up in a chase scene because their ride skills sucks.

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Don't listen to these guys. It's a viable choice, sir.

Rogues do just fine damage with a 2 weapon fighting build and can get that damage relatively easily.

These guys just want to say something sucks just because it isn't the best.

You have to go out of your way to make a specified archeologist build, but he if you want to do damage and have the rogue skills and abilities.... go rogue AS IS.... core rulebook.

The archaeologist will not do as much damage as the rogue, especially as the rogue classes damage will scale better with better magic weapons. I would suggest a 2 weapon fighting style rogue.... or a "ray specialist" rogue that becomes and arcane trickster. That seems pretty fun and will make good use of the high intelligence you want.

Again, rogues are better at multiclassing than bards.

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Dispel Evil

First, you gain a +4 deflection bonus to AC against attacks by evil creatures.

Second, on making a successful melee touch attack against an evil creature from another plane, you can choose to drive that creature back to its home plane. The creature can negate the effects with a successful Will save (Spell Resistance applies). This use discharges and ends the spell.

Third, with a touch you can automatically dispel any one enchantment spell cast by an evil creature or any one evil spell. Spells that can't be dispelled by dispel magic also can't be dispelled by dispel evil. Saving throws and Spell Resistance do not apply to this effect. This use discharges and ends the spell.

I'm just curious about the wording on these two. Does that mean if I make a slam attack with a monster that has this spell active I can choose to do the Third ability? It seems worded differently than the second power above which requires a touch attack explicitly.


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Sorry James, but I can't see how either of those things encourages people to move out from the town. I do think this is a viable option, however.

Make Population matter and base it's value off of something else.

Command DC = 20 + Size
Population = Size x 250.

If you base Population on City Blocks used x some numberx 250... or perhaps by adding together Building bonuses x 250 and then add the rule:

If Size x 250 < Population... your people get 2 unrest a turn until this is rectified.

This would encourage players to expand and claim more hexes at a similar rate to building their city.

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I wasn't charmed... the Barbarian that went into the cell to rough him up was charmed.

*Sigh* I wanted to capture him allive... I had already Held Person on him and could have cou de gras'd him... but I really wanted to subduel damage his ass down and discredit him.

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I had no idea that 1 rank of Spellcraft would hinder a character this much... I'll probably ask my DM if I can swap out one of the other ranks.

However, I still don't think it's beyond someone's perview to be able to see an effect and make a guess as to what that effect is... even without spellcraft.

For instance,
Does a guard need spellcraft when seeing someone do the exact same thing in order to guess that he might be invisible?

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Iron Cobra!

This is a friggin cool construct to build IMO.