Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions! Of all of them, I think I like the "Kraken Society" name best, possibly creating a secret history behind it, in that the uppermost members of the group are worshippers of Dagon - something that could eventually come into play once the campaign progresses to the Abyss. And I'll have you know, JollyDoc, that your Shackled City story hour was the inspiration for me running the Adventure Paths in the first place! Thanks and keep up the great work.
So, one of my players for our upcoming Savage Tide campaign decided to name his female character: Crimson. Not only that, but after reading the latest Demonomicon, he's gotten the idea of making her a Thrall of Malcanthet - to which I secretly snicker, how perfect is that?? Anyway, it's a cool enough name, normally I'd be all for it. Yet in this case, I find its similarity to the name of the Crimson Fleet a bit undesirable - it would likely lead to some joking around at certain key moments in the campaign, when I wouldn't want the tension broken up by jokes regarding a character's name. It's certainly not a BIG deal, but I kinda don't want it. So, since I'd never want to actually VETO a character's name - can anyone, off the top of their head, think of a decent alternative name for the Crimson Fleet that might work out for me?
I too was wondering if and when we might get a Celeste appearance... Because even if none is planned, I certainly will find a way to work her into my own campaign. She's become quite the significant player in my group's runs through Shackled City and Age of Worms (even marrying one of the Shackled City PCs!!) - to the point where it wouldn't really feel like a sequel if she wasn't around.
A very similar situation happened with our group, nearly two years ago. We'd been playing as a DM and 4 players for quite some time, and one of the players had begun to get quite annoying to everyone else. He was the type who would always play characters that would try to cheat or backstab other PCs at some point in the campaign. Once every few campaigns, I have no problem with a surprise evil turn from one of the PCs - it can be fun and dramatic. But this guy, it was always the same story - he just got more fun out of bullying other players than actually following the main plot (which everyone else was quite into). Finally, the last straw came one day when we were playing at his apartment, and the player in question had had a few too many drinks. So he started getting quite obnoxious, making his character do stupid things just for the sake of amusing himself (while all the rest of us were trying to be serious). We told him, not for the first time, that he was ruining the fun for the rest of us, but he didn't seem to care. So I, as DM, had simply had enough, and told him that if he wanted to simply do his own thing and not work with the rest of us to make things fun for everyone - then he could spend his next Saturday alone, playing Everquest or something - cause we didn't want him around anymore. That provoked a brief argument as we were cleaning up and packing up our things (it was the end of the session anyway). I told him we'd be in touch over the course of the week. On the car ride home, we discussed the matter, and all of us agreed that the player in question had been ruining things for all of us for many months now - so I made the suggestion, which was agreed upon, to simply cut him loose. He'd been a friend for a couple of years, but in all honesty, none of us even really considered him all that close of a friend anymore. So I wrote him an e-mail and talked to him on the phone, and pretty much straight-out told him that we'd all come to the decision that he just wasn't wanted around anymore, since he was turning a fun weekly tradition into an oftentimes frustrating experience for everyone. D&D was supposed to be fun, and the guy in question clearly wasn't finding it fun enough for him anymore, so to keep himself entertained he was spoiling the rest of our fun. He was quite upset, and the friendship quickly faded away - though we did get together one last time for a concert we'd already all bought tickets for, months earlier. We at first felt bad and wondered if we'd been too hard on him. Then we started up a fresh campaign, without him around. And suddenly everything just seemed brand new again. It was as though this parasite had been sucking the life out of our D&D sessions, without us even realizing to what extent. We played through the Eberron adventure series, and it was the best campaign we'd had in months. Then I DM-ed the group through Shackled City, with only the three remaining players as PCs - and it became the best campaign we'd had IN YEARS. Now 75% of the way through Age of Worms, and looking ahead to Savage Tide and a Dragonlance Key of Destiny campaign - it's become quite clear that removing that single negative element from our D&D game has been the best decision we have ever made, and quite likely saved our D&D group from extinction. Had he still been around, we likely would not still be playing today. Without him, we are now enjoying D&D more than ever, and look forward to many more years of great times together. So, bottom line, I would just suggest that you meet up with the other players and discuss the situation. Likely, they share similar feelings to yours. And if that's the case, then stand your ground and tell the loser to get lost. You'll be glad you did. Best of luck to you!
We started in May 2006, and are now 75% of the way done, about to start Kings of the Rift. So nine months down, maybe two more to go. Prior to that, we played through Shackled City, which took us exactly nine months. In both cases, interest in the campaign was pretty high all the way through. Sure, the battles became more tedious as the campaign progressed (as always happens at high-level), but the role-playing just kept on getting better, so everything remained interesting and fresh. See for yourself: www.knights-of-valencia.com Can't wait for Savage Tide, though :)
Only others things I would add, from my own D&D Camping experiences... - Bring LOTS of flashlights. If you are playing the game far enough into the evening, campfire and a single flashlight will not suffice. Have one for everybody, so they can actually see their own die rolls. - Paperweights. It's very easy for your charts and campaign notes to go flying at a moment's notice - possible even straight into a nearby fire! Make sure you have enough stuff to weight everything down quite solidly. - Dice rolling containers. I use various types of box covers and such - but just make sure everyone has something to roll their dice in, rather than just doing it on top of a book. If a die makes a funny rebound and goes flying into the grass somewhere, stopping to look for it can waste a lot of time (especially if it happens every five minutes). Aside from that - enjoy! I have great memories of D&D Camping, and I hope you will too.
James Sutter wrote: We do indeed have a set art team for Savage Tide, but it's not Eva. Though we love all three of the AoWs artists, we wanted the STAP to have a different feel, and as such have chosen to give the whole thing to Ben Wootten and Warren Mahy (who you might know best from their concept art for movies like <i>King Kong</i>). Needless to say, we're pretty excited. Given the quality of the art seen in the Dungeon 138 Savage Tide preview - I think you've made a very good decision!
Thanks for the Vanthus suggestions - I definitely think that this is the best possible way to go. The character's actions and motivations fit pretty much perfectly with what you might expect Vhalantru to be up to, the second time around. He's more aggressive, more desperate, and more driven than the "old" Vhalantru - who let his arrogance get the best of him, waiting for others to do the dirty work for him. Now he realizes that he needs to take action, to get what he wants. Also, his role as a central recurring villain means that I will have quite the number of opportunities to make him well-known, and well-despised, by the PCs. Just as he was ever-present for me, in my Shackled City campaign - he will remain at the forefront of this campaign as well (rather than just making a little cameo unworthy of the hype surrounding him). As for koramado's comments - my aspirations for the campaign definitely fall into both categories you mention. On one hand, I know my players are still hungry for the chance to get another shot at Vhalantru. When the "big reveal" comes, and they find out that he's behind the trouble this time around, the players will be thrilled by the turn of events and be more driven than ever to get their hands on him. Yet, at the same time, I'm much more ambitious than that - and I want to make Vanthus into the "new Vhalantru", too. I want to build him from the ground up as a new character and new villain, every bit as despicable and hated by the in-game characters as the original Vhalantru was (in time) hated by the original PCs from Cauldron. By the time the end of the campaign comes around - I want the players AND their characters to be just dying to get their hands on Vanthus... only to shockingly discover that their new enemy is not so "new" an enemy after all, DOUBLING the stakes. It should make for one of the greatest "grudge matches" in the history of my D&D group, at that point. And of course, I will do my best to sprinkle enough clues throughout the campaign to ensure that the new characters do know a fair bit about the history of Vhalantru in Cauldron, so that the big reveal is meaningful to the characters, and not just the players. I like your suggestions regarding this, too. Can't wait to start reading the actual adventures, and begin planning this "twist" in more detail.
Hey guys, I have a bit of a unique scenario I need to somehow incorporate into Savage Tide, which I could use some suggestions on. Consider it a challenge for any devious and clever DMs out there (especially any of you who have already ran Shackled City). Basically, it involves the great return of Orbius Vhalantru, who in my group's version of Shackled City, survived. He'd been an awesome and very memorable villain, tricking his way into becoming the party's best friend and confidant. His kidnapping of Celeste was made all the more dramatic due to the fact that she was at that point engaged to be married to the party's leader. He'd fooled them all, and was truly a villain that they "loved to hate". And then, at the moment when the party would normally go take him out - things took a different turn entirely. From the clues available, the party essentially knew that both Vhalantru and Thifirane were baddies - but opted to go attack Thifirane at her manor first. They then proceeded, on a hunch, to discover the location of the Fiery Sanctum - and go take out the Cagewrights right away... skipping over Oblivion and the entirety of "Foundation of Flame". How I reacted to that was two-fold: I opted to make party allies Meerthan and Jenya become the heroes of the evacuation of Cauldron, saving countless citizens, while the heroes were down below trying to stop the eruption. However, in the midst of all that anarchy, Orbius Vhalantru was left unwatched... His ally Thifirane now dead, and everything going to hell down in the Fiery Sanctum below... So I opted to have him ditch his known Simulacrum Suit (the public face of the noble in Cauldron), don another spare that he had hidden away... and then escape the city in the middle of the chaos around him. The party later went to Oblivion and saved Celeste, but by then - Vhalantru was long gone. So now, I am left with the interesting dilemma of trying to incorporate Vhalantru, in some way, shape or form, into the Savage Tide adventure path. I wish to do so only because he was one of our most memorable villains ever... and yet he was also "the one that got away"... With Savage Tide taking place a few years after Shackled City, the beholder has had ample time to find a new life for himself. Yet, he also has surely stuck to his evil, greedy ways. His original escape likely led him to Sasserine, but he may or may not still be there. Also, as I said, he is in the possession of a new Simulacrum Suit, the appearance of which is currently unknown. (For all my players know, he didn't even have this backup one). If you were in my position, what would YOU think of doing with him? Bear in mind that my Vhalantru did undergo the Tarterian transformation described in the latter stages of Shackled City - making him something like a Challenge Rating 16 foe. Thanks for any help!
What our group does, to help ensure that both the DM and the players will be satisfied with the characters that are created for a new campaign, is a type of group brainstorming. Basically, the DM starts with a few hints as to what to expect from the campaign - then the players and DM discuss together (and privately, as well) what each would like to do - and how it could work within the framework of the campaign. Therefore, the DM gets to make a lot of suggestions and nudging in the right direction - but the players also get to come up with ideas that both spark their interest and have some sort of chemistry with one another. A few examples, for each of our adventure paths: I was DM-ing the Shackled City, and let it be known that the campaign featured two main elements - a very strong emphasis on life within a single city, which would be featured from beginning to end; and also a fair degree of extraplanar travel, at key points in the story. What we ended up with, was the concept of three PC's who were all loners and outsiders to the town, each misunderstood in their own way, while trying to reach out to the community and become accepted. The first PC was a Warforged Artificer, who ended up becoming Lord of Occipitus, while also starting up a magic item construction shop in Cauldron and becoming a hero to the local children. The second was a Neraph Mummy Cleric of St-Cuthbert, who tried to unify the churches of Cauldron, only to be betrayed by Wee Jas. He also worked hard on the reconstruction of the city after disaster struck it late in the campaign. Finally, a Tiefling Wizard with something like five eventual Prestige Classes - including Archmage, who built a school of magic in Cauldron, eventually became mayor of the city, and got married to Celeste. He is now apprentice to Manzorian in our Age of Worms campaign. Altogether, they were known as the Outsiders - and the campaign was a phenomenal success, ending with the party choosing to help redeem Adimarchus. (Further details at shackledoutsiders.blogspot.com) The brainstorming process has also seemed to work well for our other campaigns. Age of Worms was said by its DM (not me this time) to be less focused on a single city, as well as featuring a significant number of Undead. What did we end up with from that? The "Harbingers of Faith":
All of them have different religious beliefs, and hold constant discussions of their faiths - but also hold a common purpose in trying to stop what they see as the impending end of the world. This campaign is currently in its third chapter, and going quite well. (Further details at wormslayers.blogspot.com) Finally, for Savage Tide (as mentioned in the Rival Captains thread), I let my players know that it would feature pirates and ocean-bound adventure - as well as a number of surprises along the way which I would not divulge just yet ;) What I've ended up with is likely to be:
(Further details in the Rival Captains thread) So, all in all, what we do is practically "Creation by Commitee" - and it has worked nothing but wonders for us so far. I can't imagine my players being as into their characters if they had no say in their actual design.
SgtHulka wrote: In Fritz Leiber's Swords and Ice Magic Farfred (sp?) acquires a Viking Drakar and crews it with tall Northern Barbarians while the Grey Mouser acquires a sloop and crews it with short thieves (each shorter than himself so that he, the captain, is the tallest). Though it's not exactly as you describe, there is a bit in the beginning where what begins as a mock battle between the two turns serious, and then through the rest of the first half of the story there's some rivalry between the two crews. You might want to check it out. Hmm, very interesting. I've meant to check out some of Fritz Leiber's work for a while now, too. I guess this is the best time to start, then. Thanks for the suggestion!
I personally don't like the idea of giving away a character level as a "freebie" at the start of a campaign. There is too much fun to be had in discovering your character's abilities for the first time, while at the same time knowing that nearly any monster could kill you on a single lucky hit. What I would therefore do, if ever I thought the party needed a bit of a boost before starting the AP - is to simply come up with a brief introduction chapter of my own, even if it only consists of a couple of encounters, and a lot of bonus roleplaying XP. At least then the players will have "earned" their level-up, in some way.
After doing some homework and reading up a bit more on the two classes my players are looking at, I got to wondering - which do you think is the better "captain" class: Dread Pirate or Legendary Captain? Does anyone have any actual in-game experience running or playing either of these? Or is there another cool captain class printed in some other book that is worth checking out or recommending to my players?
A few new twists to add into the mix, after further consideration from my players... The two rival captains (or captain-wannabes, more accurately) are apparently now brothers, at the decision of the players in question. So the struggle for control of the ship will emerge out of a lifelong sibling rivalry between the two. Also, my third player has decided to play a manipulative swashbuckler, who will do his best to fuel the fires of the rivalry, and use both captains to his own monetary advantage. Heathansson wrote: Ironically enow, pirate ships were commonly democracies, and a captain was voted on. Whomever could deliver the swag was Captain. I will definitely make use of this info, and ensure that it becomes one of the dirtiest mud-slinging political campaigns ever :) Steve Greer wrote: Markus the Mad, this may be a very real possibility depending on how your players do on the Isle of Dread. Of course, this would also mean you shouldn't expect this to happen until somewhere in the mid levels (8th - 12th), but that should work out pretty well for you since your players may be a bit sidetracked by other concerns that would make a powerstruggle over their ship somewhat unimportant (for a while, at least). Glad to hear from one of the writers, that this scenario would fit in well with what's to come. And since both prestige classes require at least six or seven levels to meet the prerequisites, in the first place - I'm sure my players wouldn't expect to be captaining a ship until mid-campaign, anyway. Can't wait to get this one started!!
So I give my future Savage Tide players a few hints about what types of characters to eventually make for the campaign, letting them know that pirates and adventures on the high seas may play a significant part in it. Well, guess what has come of it? One of them has decided upon (naturally) the Dread Pirate prestige class(from Complete Adventurer), while the other one has set his sights on the Legendary Captain prestige class (from Stormwrack). Both of which would be absolutely perfect for the campaign, on its own... Yet together, they bring up a funny dilemma. Namely, that both prestige classes have for prerequisite that the character own and captain their own ship! So now I'm envisioning all kinds of fun that can come of this... beginning with initial squabbles and mutiny over who will gain control of the first major ship they come across. Since one or the other would technically lose all of the abilities of their prestige class when he loses the ship, I can see some fun back and forth for a while, as each makes attempts to regain what is rightfully theirs. And knowing my players, they will indeed do it in a "Fun" way - not through annoying and campaign-spoiling backstabbing, but in a fun game of one-upsmanship to see who can outsmart the other in the funniest and most unexpected way. Then, after letting them have their fun with this for a while, I plan on making not one but two ships available to them, as they each get to captain their own vessel, with rival crews and constant competition to see who is the better man, better crew, and better ship. Yet at the same time, they realize that they need each other, in order to get all the riches and treasure that is at stake... so they allow the other to be "tolerated" until the mission is complete. And then, after the world has nearly come to an end and Demogorgon has been defeated by the two rival pirates and their respective crews... the REAL battle will begin. Probably in the form of a race around the world, without magical intervention, with "winner-takes-all" stipulations - for a total fortune likely worth millions in gold. This campaign is shaping up nicely indeed :) The one downside? Little do my players know, but I am in the midst of constructing Worldworks' "Maiden of the High Seas", to be the party's ship! So now I will be forced to make TWO of them... hehehe. Oh well, I think it's more than worth the payoff!
In my group, strange circumstances led to one player being a bit spoiled on plot events, but it didn't really harm the game at all. It started with my decision to run the Shackled City, from the Hardcover. At the same time, however, the other player started prepping his Age of Worms campaign. I warned him to be wary of potential spoilers, but didn't expect it to give TOO much away... Save to say, he came back to me a few weeks later saying that he stumbled upon a passage making mention of an eruption in Cauldron. This right when we were about to start Shackled City. I debated what to do, and decided to let it be... I trusted that the player in question would not use this information inappropriately, and wouldn't spoil any of the other players either. Also, the eruption in question was not likely to be as bad as he imagined it being, anyway (most of Cauldron would remain intact). And in the end, things went great. As a sign of his willingness to not play unfairly, he went on to spend most of his character's money building up a mage tower in Cauldron. When the eruption came, his tower was spared. And the player went on to become the mayor of Cauldron by campaign's end. It's nice to know that some people are more interested in having fun, than in using whatever means possible to "cheat" their way through a campaign.
I too am braving the task of putting together Worldworks' Maiden of the High Seas. In fact, I will likely be buying / downloading / printing / cutting / folding / glueing a number of their products in the months to come, leading up to our group running Savage Tide sometime next Spring. The whole cardstock model process is quite fun and addictive! Thankfully my wife is patient with my new hobby - though I guess she knew the risks of marrying a D&D geek to begin with :)
Golbez57 wrote: Wasn't able to find it, either, but you just gave met the idea to set out a bowl of Gummi Worms at one of our game sessions. I think I'll wait until the game after one of the heroes first gets infested with a Kyuss worm, HAW! There was a space that somehow got into his link. Go here instead: www.atlantacutlery.com/webstore/eCat/Miscellaneous/Skull%20Head%20Bowl.aspx Pretty funny stuff.
Orbius Maximus wrote:
Hi! Thanks as always for the interest in our website - it's my first time doing anything like this for a D&D campaign, and it's been a complete blast so far. As for your Age of Worms question, we actually do have that lined-up to play back-to-back with the Shackled City, once we're through with it (looking like September or something like that). Our group's other resident DM (we pretty much alternate from one campaign to the next) is Chris, who plays Scatterpells/Verodemocrium in the Outsiders. He'll be taking up the mantle for AoW, which he is already prepping during his spare time. I'll be a PC for that one (thinking of perhaps a Favored Soul of Wee Jas), but will also continue on as webmaster for our site, with basically the same layout and content as what we are doing right now. So stay tuned! And in the meantime, I hope you keep on enjoying the adventures of the Outsiders.
With my group, things came to a surprising end, as the party leader - a neutral evil wizard - came down very harshly on Keygan for his part in the kidnappings. The wizard went out of his way to speak during Keygan's trial, and gave an empassioned account of how the gnome's actions had resulted in the loss of a dozen fine citizens of Cauldron to Underdark slavers (these being the people that were never found in the Malachite Fortress). The speech was so eloquent, that I gave him a +4 bonus to his diplomacy roll, which turned out to be a natural 19. Add in all his modifiers, and the total diplomacy check was in the mid-thirties. The jury was in love with the wizard, and just about ready to do anything he asked. Imagine my surprise when the wizard then called for a very special punishment for Keygan Ghelve, one that he as a wizard knew would teach him a lesson worse than any other - the public execution, via beheading, of his familiar, Starbrow! The jury was swayed and the execution set for the following day at high noon. Keygan (also sentenced to a year's jail time) fainted from utter shock... Quite the fun and memorable turn of events, I must say. Incidentally, you can read up on this and the rest of my group's adventures at http://shackledoutsiders.blogspot.com
Clive wrote: Nice Site. I added it to my favorites and will be checking back frequently. I love reading about how other DM's are handling their Shackled City adventure. I have been running one for a little over a month now, but my group takes things a bit slower than most, and we are still on Life's Bazaar. We play every Friday and our site is here: [url]shackledcity.wikispaces.com[/url] Thanks! And I like your site a lot too. I think that's one of my favorite things about the Shackled City thus far (other than how awesome the actual adventure is) - the fact that it has made a real community of all the DMs who have ran it. I never get tired of hearing what other groups are doing with the city and its NPCs.
jumpet wrote:
Thanks for reading! And I must say that I am just as impressed with my players as you are - I've been ready to roll with the big action set-piece at the beginning of Flood Season (the Lucky Monkey) for the past couple of sessions, but they are just so into the role-playing that I'm in no rush to stop them! As for XP awards, I used to give a lot, to encourage good role-playing, but now I find that I don't even have to. The guys get more satisfaction out of seeing one of their plans work out, or solving some important mystery on their own, than actually levelling up. So I try to reward them for sessions like this with something along those lines - such as having an attempted romance with an NPC work out well, or having their new shop do good business - things that don't affect game mechanics too much, but make the players feel like their role-playing is impacting the game world in an important way. Despite all that, though, I have to say that this is a new record for us. At six hours per game session, two weeks in a row - we've actually sat around playing D&D for twelve hours straight without rolling a single damage die!
Jeffrey Stop wrote:
Thanks! And check out http://www.therpgenius.com/ . Made by some people on these boards, it has the NPC pictures and lots of other helpful stuff. Definitely saved me some time in putting together the site.
Thanks for the interest, although unfortunately at the moment we aren't looking for anyone. If that does change in the future, though, I will let you know (and most likely post a message about it on our campaign blog). Our game time is usually Sundays 12 to 6 (every week), with the location alternating between St-Eustache and Dorval.
On behalf of my gaming group up here in Montreal, we invite you to check out our campaign website/blog at http://shackledoutsiders.blogspot.com I started it out just for fun, and as a way for me as a DM to keeping some running record of the details of the campaign. But my players are proud of their role-playing exploits, and the group dynamic we have built over the past 7 years of playing together - and they requested that I "announce" the website, and ask people to come check out their adventures so far (we just started Drakthar's Way last Sunday, so it's still early on). As a fellow DM, you might find it a useful resource for ideas on how to foreshadow the roles of many important NPCs in the campaign. By the end of the first session, I already had the party registered under an adventuring charter, with Lord Vhalantru as their local sponsor/patron. The party cleric was working with both the churches of St-Cuthbert and Wee Jas. The party wizard was an apprentice to the dwarven magic item merchant "Tyro Amberhelm". And that's just the beginning! Overall, I think I've done a great job in setting up lots of eventual shocks and twists as the PCs discover who they really can and cannot trust. The fall of Alek Tercival will have much more impact, for example, now that they have travelled with him as an NPC for much of Chapter Two. So hopefully some of you check us out, and hopefully find this of interest! Feel free to leave any player-friendly (non-spoilerish) comments on the site itself. DM-only comments or questions (if you have any) should stay in this thread. Thanks!
Hello - this is my first post on these boards, but I couldn't resist putting in my two cents on the matter. I'm in a special position, since I have read over some of the AP1 adventures, but have not yet run any of them. I was just considering back-ordering the ones I am missing, when the Hardcover was announced - needless to say, pre-ordering it was an easy decision! Anyway, from the read-through I gave the adventures (mostly the earlier ones in the series), I spotted one main problem that I hope will be addressed in the Hardcover - namely a need to tweak the challenge of certain "boss" battles. In particular, I was worried of possible TPKs from Skaven (if faced in the spiders' den), Gottrod, or the erinyes in Zenith Trajectory. From what I have read of other attempts at running Shackled City, that seems to be a problem faced by many as well - a fairly high PC death toll. Therefore, my number one request for the Hardcover would simply be to perhaps modify the deadliest encounters in the Path to fix balance problems. Other than that, thanks for listening to everyone's input, and I can't wait for July to come around! |