M K 588's page

My advice? Read the adventure path carefully ahead of time. There are, on occasion, some bits you might otherwise miss and mess up if you're trying to wing it.

For example, Tsuto probably shouldn't be in the main room of the Glassworks when the PCs bust in, unless they've made a terrible racket getting there. Basically, he arrives to see the battle in progress, he readies his bow, and he gets an easy chance to flee when the goblins get slaughtered. Then you can easily set him up as being in Thistletop. By the way, if you read all the descriptions, he's actually hanging out with Lyrie in D15, though this isn't mentioned in the entry for D15, and only mentioned under Tsuto's entry...

Anyway, there are some tricky bits to make up on the fly. In particular, I highly encourage you to prepare the following ahead of time:

- Determine Spellcraft checks needed to ID the various bits of treasure. PCs can cast Detect Magic at will now, and believe me, they'll try their best to do so in the middle of a dungeon.

- Determine what magical auras are present and where in places such as the Catacombs. The room descriptions don't tell you this info. Is the zombie freezer room glowing with magic, or is it just unnaturally cold? Stuff like that...

Also: it sounds as if your players are playing Neutral / CN as an excuse to be jerks and make life hard for you. Is that the case? If so, that doesn't sound terribly fun. You might want to point out to them that you're in this to have fun too, not just to try to pick up the pieces when they intentionally do stupid stuff.

Just some thoughts.

My PCs were having a tough time of it until the party monk managed to grapple Erylium.

The quasit was not shy about using her spells at the beginning of the fight, and that really made the PCs wary. She nearly dropped the monk with s Cause Moderate Wounds in the second round! Heh.

Unfortunately, the 20 STR half-elf fighter with the +1 sword finally got to take some swings, and Erylium doesn't hold up long under 1d8+8 damage rolls...

Could someone point me in the correct direction. If the Sehidron rings make you immune to the effects of the Occlusion field does that mean it also allows you to teleport around xin-shalast? If so where do you find such info?

Check the stickied thread on the Spires of Xin-Shalast. I think there's a lengthy discussion about this very topic there.

If you're having trouble, I recommend checking out all of the "stickied" threads at the top of this forum. They provide a great deal of useful information, including answers from James Jacobs and others.

The lamia fights are tough; there's absolutely no doubt about that. They're ridiculously tough, in fact. But, y'know? It's kind of refreshing to come up against a villain who's worthwhile. The lamias are villains who can win, get away, and fill you with hatred and a desire for revenge. You want to go after them and break up their plans because you got bested fair and square. It gives you the sense that you're not taking part in the Sorting Algorithm of Evil.

I think it makes sense from a story realism perspective, too. Keep in mind that this is a mean lady who's working for mean people, and she's practically in control of an entire city thanks to her spells and natural abilities. The PCs have randomly stumbled across this plot after managing to defeat some yokels out in the sticks, and get cocky because they're "the heroes." So they follow the clues to the big city, intent upon putting an end to the evil scheme once and for all. Then they come across a villain(ess) who's clearly out of their league and they get their butts handed to them.

It's something that rarely happens (in my experience), and I find it refreshing.

I played through Rise of the Runelords as a PC (using 3.5) and now I'm currently running it as a DM for a new-to-D&D group (using Pathfinder). I had the thorough butt-kicking happen to me as a PC and I personally felt that it really made clear the idea that "these people aren't messing around." They're strong, they're organized, they're powerful, we've gotten involved in something and we're way over our heads, and oh crap, we have to do something about it!

Personally, I enjoyed that feeling! :-) But, this sort of thing may not be for everyone.

My experience has been that 3.5 is more challenging than Pathfinder. I mean that in a purely number-crunching sort of way. I agree with one of the above sentiments concerning how this module was born in a time of 60+ supplement books and insane powergaming munchkin combos that, to some degree, had to be expected and planned for by the writers. If your PC wasn't above-the-norm tricked out with some Prestige Classes, it was a brutal AP.

The Pathfinder group I DM seems to absolutely mow through everything, even holding their own against Erylium despite awful dice rolls on the PC's parts and me playing her sneaky abilities to the fullest. (This fight easily dragged on for 25 rounds. I don't think any PC rolled above an 8 during the first 20 of those rounds. Things certainly changed once the monk grappled Erylium, though...)

So, yes... My post had a point when I began, but I think I lost it somewhere along the way. Hopefully this helps?

I'm really just regurgitating what a number of other, more experienced DMs have said in this thread.

I pointed out to my PCs that it was entirely possible for them to run across things they simply couldn't handle and that retreat is an option in such circumstances.

Additionally, I apply DM fiat to situations of "we flee!" I consider this to be outside of initiative and thus I discount the rules concerning feet per round and whatnot. If you're running for your life, who says you have to run in a straight line? :P

I had some other brilliant insights to share, but they just slipped my mind. Oh well!

I second "mountain". I think that is the most prevalent out of all of the terrains encountered.

Hi all. I'll quickly answer some questions and tell you what I've decided so far.

"Why did the PC choose mystic theurge?"
This player decided to multiclass and go mystic theurge for a few reasons. Chiefly, all of the PCs in this group are new to D&D/Pathfinder/tabletop gaming/tabletop roleplaying. He's the most generally gaming-competent person in the group.

When the group created characters, everybody went for melee types, except for this one player. He chose cleric, seeing the need for healing and spell support. I strongly suggested that at least one person should consider being a wizard or sorceror, knowing that life (in general) and a lot of encounters down the line (30+ ogres at Fort Rannick, for starters) would really go MUCH more smoothly with fireballs and feather falls and teleport spells and all that. Nobody else was interested in playing a spellcaster, so this player decided to go mystic theurge to compensate.

I decided to compensate for the MT's general lack of power by granting the MT class the ability to make all casting levels stack. Once he takes the MT class, his caster levels to stack together to give him a single caster level. Thanks again to Remmco for suggesting this!

He's not going to get his high-level spell slots as quickly, but having a decent caster level will compensate somewhat. I might keep searching around for some other benefit to house-rule into the MT class, but I'm not sure what that might be. We'll see!

Also, thanks for the rod suggestion! I always forget about those. I know some rods enter the game later on down the road (Barl Breakbones, I believe?) but I'll have to see what can be arranged.

Thanks again!

hmm.. well since you are the GM in this case, have you considered using a Magic Rating system ?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/magicRating.htm

basically it allows caster levels to stack together to give any character a single casterlevel. Especially in the case of mystic theurge I see no reason for a feat / trait tax.

For my players I keep it simple, spellcasting clases get 1 casterlevel for each level, non-spellcasters get 1 casterlevel for every 2 levels.

The link above has the original Magic Rating system you might like the detail better.

Y'know, that's a pretty handy idea. I like it. Thanks!

Hi all.

The forum seems to be eating all of my posts, so I'll try to make this one quick. :)

I've got a PC in my RotRL campaign who's planning on going clr3/wiz3/mystic theurge. I've been trying to help him with his character build, but honestly, I still haven't completely adjusted myself to Pathfinder (but it's great so far!) and I haven't built a PC myself in a few years.

So, I could use some advice.

His stat line is approximately as follows. (He rolled pretty well.)
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 16
WIS 18
CHA 14

How can my PC overcome the caster level deficiencies for both casting classes, besides taking the old 3.5 "Practiced Spellcaster" feat twice?

Are there any really awesome cleric domain / wizard school power combinations?

Besides the metric ton of spells per day and the vast flexibility in the spells he can use, what other cool stuff might he be able to do?

How can he overcome or negate the Arcane Spell Failure penalty via feats and equipment? I am willing to allow portions of 3.5 on a case-by-case basis, so don't automatically discount your 3.5 suggestions.

Any help you could offer would be much appreciated!

Not trying to threadjack, but quick question along these lines...

I never got much into the crafting rules, and this new change to Pathfinder Detect Magic/Identify really is cool, but at the same time rather confusing!

How can I easily and reliably determine the required CL (and thus, Spellcraft check) to ID items? I had a heck of a time figuring out (and never did, actually) what it would take for a caster to ID a simple +1 longsword.

Can somebody point me toward some help on this? I'm a new DM and I could use some pointers. :) Thanks!

Hi all. I've got a PC in my campaign who's planning to go clr 3/wiz 3/mystic theurge.

He's asked about getting the old 3.5 "Practiced Spellcaster" feat to help him make up for the three caster levels he loses in cleric and wizard. I suggested he'd have to take the feat twice, once for each casting class, to really get the most benefit.

But, I'm still getting used to Pathfinder's (wonderful!) system and it's been a couple years since I got into the nitty gritty of building my own PCs.

So, can anyone make some suggestions on good alternate feats, magic items, spells, or miscellaneous stuff that could patch up the mystic theurge's missing caster levels?

Alternatively, what recommendations and suggestions do you have for cool things this build can accomplish, besides the obvious "lots and lots of spells per day"? Are there any hidden gems of "spell X + spell Y = awesome!" that people can think of?

We're sticking mostly with Pathfinder core spells on this one. I'll allow other spells into the game on a case-by-case basis. It should be said that I very much encourage my players to be creative with their spellcasting. I feel that cut-and-dried hard limits on everything spells can or cannot do really hurts the game a bit.

Anyway...if anybody has some ideas, I'd love to hear them! Thanks!

Cool, that works for me. Thanks all!

Hi all. I just had a quick question. I'm DMing a game and have a player who's about to obtain a familiar. He's hoping to get a raven so as to have a backup source for his Knowledge and Spellcraft checks.

The Pathfinder rulebook doesn't specify which skills are allowed, saying only "Regardless of a familiar’s total skill modifiers,
some skills may remain beyond the familiar’s ability to
use." I searched the rules forums but didn't find a good answer.

So, is there an official stance on which skills are and are not allowed? Can his raven someday remember explicit details about various Knowledge topics that he can't even remember?

Thanks for the help!

Hello again, all.

Thank you very much for your suggestions. They proved helpful!

We've gone another session, and while I haven't managed to get the cleric and Shayliss together yet, things are going much better.

I think the group is getting better at having their character disagreements in character. When I originally posted, the people sitting around the table were getting upset over their disagreement.

The cleric is temporarily behind in XP, but he'll catch up once he retroactively meets Shayliss on the day everyone else went goblin hunting. :)

I've gotta say, running this adventure is a lot of fun. My group's current theory is that Father Tobyn fell from grace when he fathered Nualia with a succubus, and tried to cover his transgression by "adopting" the girl after she was "left" on the church's doorstep. He subsequently turned to an evil diety to keep his clerical powers intact and maintain his cover, using his position as the "good father" to commit any number of atrocities as he fell futher into evil.

They also advanced the idea that Tobyn and Nualia had planned all of these events years ago, and that the burning of his corpse is some sort of blood magic ritual designed to resurrect him and grant the pair demonic powers to use against the town.

They also thought that Ameiko was secretly working with Tsuto, even after they found her beaten and bound beneath the glassworks!

Good stuff!

So, those are the latest developments. I just thought I'd share. Thanks again for your input!

Thanks for all of the input! I'm finding it very helpful!

Err.. Korovus isn't dead. He's in the catacombs under Sandpoint. He was twisted and mutated by the waters of the Shrine of Lamashtu and now serves Erylium as a servant. You could always change him to one of the other Goblin Heroes though, i guess.

...

Ha! I didn't know that! :) I first experienced ROtRL as a player, though I joined the group at the 3/4 mark of Burnt Offerings, so I missed a few bits and pieces. This was one of those bits and pieces I suppose I missed. :) I hadn't read too closely through the rest of Burnt Offerings... I guess I should do so. :)

In my opinion that is the BEST time to run the "Goblin in the closet" ...

The group had already experienced the "Goblin in the Closet" bit. I wanted everyone around to see the broken family for maximum shock value. :) I didn't have the heart to put the cleric through "you should have been more thorough" by himself, though. That would've just been mean. ..Well, it would have been too mean, heh.

Is the cleric a good "face" man? If so, run the Shopkeeper's Daughter challenge with him.

That's a perfect solution! I had completely overlooked that scenario. My group's major "ladies' man" had the hots for Ameiko right away, so I never had a good way to work in Shayliss and Ven Vinder. Thanks for reminding me about this one! :)

Hi all. The forum just ate my post, so I'm going to make this one short. :)

My party is comprised of entirely new-to-D&D players, and I'm a longtime player but first-time DM.

The party is in Burnt Offerings and promised to protect Sandpoint while Sheriff Baylor's gathering new recruits in Magnimar and Shalelu is searching for the goblin hideout.

Most of the party reasoned that they could find and challenge one of the goblin heroes and thereby obtain the location of the hideout. They also figured that cleaning out the nearest goblin threats was the best way to protect the town. (I let them patrol town for a couple of days, but made it very clear that Sandpoint is a quiet town and that nothing much was going on.)

So, the party went off after the Birdcrunchers (and Koruvus, heh) in nearby Devil's Platter. The cleric, however, refused to leave town, saying that he wouldn't break his promise to the sheriff.

This is good roleplaying, but man, everybody knows that you don't split the party!

Eventually, the group (minus the cleric) went off and found Koruvus' ghost and had a merry little time. (And, thanks to a lucky crit, had a brush with death too. Heh.) The cleric stayed back in town and did nothing. (The player was feeling punished for making that promise, so I didn't have the heart to run the "Well, I guess you should have been more thorough in your heroing" bit from the Barret's goblin-in-the-closet story.)

Player inflexibility is one of the banes of good D&D groups that I've encountered in the past, and nerves got a little frayed around the table as everyone argued about the course of action they should take, before finally deciding to just leave the cleric behind.

I don't want to penalize the cleric for roleplaying his character. At the same time, the rest of the group went out and earned some combat XP that I can't legitimately share with the cleric. I would rather that he not end up behind everyone else in XP.

Does anyone out there have any suggestions on how to handle situations like these? I'd much appreciate your thoughts!