Lugh Ildanach's page

I haven't logged in here for almost three years, but I had to do it to say thanks for this compilation. Awesome info and post as usual, Ravingdork!

I would also have a sit down with the player who brought this to my table about the shared narrative we are trying to create and how this sort of thing can hinder that.

This sort of thing brings back my worst memories of 3.x games. With players cobbling together options that make little narrative sense together and seeking mechanical advantage by doing ridiculous things like carrying around bags of rats and attacking teammates.

I am all about fun and am very open to bending rules and straight up homebrewing to help a player realize reasonable PC concepts and have a good time at the table. However, when a player's fun is wholly rooted in power gaming to the nth degree, then I will absolutely have a sit down with that player.

This sort of thing brings back my worst memories of 3.x games. With players cobbling together options that make little narrative sense together and seeking mechanical advantage by doing ridiculous things like carrying around bags of rats and attacking teammates.

I really don't get you, Data Lore. You had a "brief dance" with 3.5, which was enough to left you with traumatic memories. You immediately thought this was ultra munchkin but you're open to have fun and allow homebrewing (which I really think is one of the most used tools by clever munchkins, min-maxers and power-gamers alike, besides being dangerous territory for unbalanced results).

As Deadmanwalkingm, Darksol and Pumpkinhead11 have said, this kind of "combo" is not really aimed to "win" the game, hinder your narrative vision, do really broken 3.5 stuff like Pun-Pun or dropping animals and killing them for movement/attack shenanigans. It's a long road, you gotta burn 3 feats (two of which are mostly useless) and collaborate as a team, which could help players to brainstorm great ideas, create character concepts or just enjoy the game in a way that's not gonna make your life harder as a GM.

I also think you're using the word "munchkin" too broadly, I don't it means what you think it means.

From Reddit: "What is the exact definition of a munchkin?"

I don't think there is an exact definition. The general idea is that it's someone who tries to exploit loopholes and otherwise bend or break the rules of a game to their own benefit, and with little or no regard for any other players. Basically, someone who thinks he can win the game, and will attempt to do so at any cost.

I totally agree that we could disagree, that's your view as a GM, but still, I think is a little sad you're shooting down player creativity like that. But yeah, you can house-rule (as these options are totally valid) and ban this from your table.

Claxon wrote:

[...]
But if you let an ally's 3rd attack with high MAP work you're turning something with very little value into something with high value.

Attack of Opportunity is just were it starts

How about the Rogue's Opportune Backstab - that triggers when an ally hits within reach, thats going to be common.
Or the Marshal's Target of Opportunity activates on an allies successful ranged strike. OK that has a -2 on it. but you can even trigger each other inside the same turn with no MAP.
Or Blood Vendetta just requires you to be hit with slashing or piercing damage - they choose not to attack you - cool you win, many monsters don't have other tactics.

Yeah, he probably has those feats banned on his games. If he considers getting to use your reaction consistently with creativity, party planning, 3 feats (two of which are extremely situational, let's face it, how many bow/sling/crossbow enemies that specifically attack you have you faced?) and 1 action from a friend, imagine doing that with just 1 reaction!

It's like Reticent and Mrspaghetti said, this is viable, cool, decent but it needs a lot of resources and you're not gonna be making extra attacks 24/7.

I suppose that's fair. The names should be more aptly given for them to fulfill their intent, though. Sometimes Legacy things need to die.

Totally agree with you there, some things are named with the same old names from DnD and PF 1E just to stay "classic" and/or "on brand" but not all of them connect to the updated mechanics.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

If the feat was named "Redirect Fire," I wouldn't see a problem with it. Return, however, has specific implications within its definition, which is to bring something back to where it came from, or was found.

Flying Kick doesn't require a kick... It'd suck if you couldn't use your stance specific attacks with it because a pedantic DM insisted on a kick do to it's name IMO.

Adding to this, one of the feats of the combo is called Deflect Arrows. OK, the trigger specifies "You are the target of a physical ranged attack." but the name is still Deflect Arrows. If we would blindly follow the name, you couldn't deflect bolts or small stones from slings. The feat also supports the notion that names are just names, they don't carry intention.

I'm glad most of you found it funny/cool. Great thing about this is that is always dangerous for the characters trying it and it can't really be optimized to always make the attack miss against the Monk.

How would you improve this? I'm was thinking in Bracers of Missile Deflection but they give circumstance bonus as Deflect Arrows does.

[...] AND not so good with that ranged attack that they are likely to hit you (don't ask a fighter or ranger to do this).

Plus, it's cool.

I understand Fighter on this example, they're always more precise but, what does Ranger have to do with this? If you're thinking Flurry, that only works against your Hunted Prey.

As a GM I wouldn't let this work [...]

That's a table I wouldn't play at. Shutting down player creativity that doesn't break the game and it's fun (and dangerous for the players doing the combo in this case) it's not my cup of tea, but yeah, I also understand "your table, your rules".

This is also effective against bow enemies, which is probably the intended usage of the feat.

This works per RAW, but a feat called Return Fire implies you're firing right back at an enemy, so I would imagine there might come errata to remedy these shenanigans.

I don't think Paizo will "fix" this incredibly niche and not broken combo. I can even imagine Paizo people laughing at this.

On the other hand, if we would always assume mechanic effects and intended usage of feats/abilities/etc. based on their names, we would be playing a really close-minded game IMO.

Little absurd cool combo I just discovered:

You'll need:

How do you pronounce "Jeggare" (one of the Chelish noble families)?

Thanks a lot, guys. I already read the code to my player and he's more than happy.

Excellent advice, guys.

What about the enemies of the faith?
Taboos?

Obvious enemies would be undead and necromancers. They "reverse" the natural or magical healing process.

One of my players is playing a Paladin of Qi Zhong (Dragon Empires Gazetteer pg. 58), a Tian Xia god.

This is all the info we get from him.

Qi Zhong
Master of Medicine
Alignment: NG
Pantheon: Deities of Tian Xia
Areas of Concern: Healing, magic, medicine
Domains: Good, Healing, Knowledge, Magic, Protection
Favored Weapon: Heavy mace
Symbol Wagon: wheel with spokes made of fire, earth, metal, water, and wood
Sacred Animal(s): Crane

I'm trying to think of a fitting Paladin Code for my player, can you help me create one?

Thanks in advance.

Oh... Ezren didn't warned her about that Girdle of Opposite Gender...

(Great cosplay, BTW!)

Liked it but there are some resize problems with some tables. Take for example the Advance New Rules, everything fits perfectly except for the "Antiheroes" and "Hero Points for GMs" section.

New party, five players.

Oracle, Spellslinger (Wizard), Slayer, Hurler (Barbarian) & Bard.

Party wants to discover new places, visit locations few people have been to. They are all kinda experienced 3.5 players but have almost no Golarion knowledge.

¿Which Adventure Path do you recommend and why?
Oh, no RotRl, I'm already DMing that.

Thanks in advance!

Those are two excellent ideas, Misroi and Latrecis. The interesting part is Malfeshnekor can't get out of that room (due to Binding spell) and the party doesn't know that either. If they want to free him, they're going to need Antimagic Field or Mage's Disjunction. Maybe Malfesh can take even more advantage out of this. This is going to be a great sub-plot.

Do you think I should give Malfesh some Class levels so he's not so helpless when the characters gain levels? Maybe Advance him? He's already a greater Barghest, but he did actually knocked out two characters before being defeated.

Scavion wrote:

Brawler Preview wrote:

Giant enemy archer? Just take Deflect Arrows and they can kiss their Manyshot goodbye (after which you hit their weak point for massive damage).

Oh?

Did fights like that happen in ancient Golarion history?

Actually, ancient Minkai history. Little known fact, that.

I hope the locations or future Adventure Paths featuring this Iconic are based on famous battles which actually took place in ancient Minkai.

Ha! now i have image of adventuring party drawn all comic book style feeding Malfeshnekor Goblin after Goblin while he sits at a table eating and spilling the beans on Thassilon:)

maybe with Brodert Quink sitting next to him feverishly jotting it all down:) thank you!

You're welcome =)

Malfeshnekor is supposed to be mad with hunger after being cooped up so long. Unless the PCs plan to feed him some intelligent creatures (an evil act) I don't see him being willing to tell them anything.

You are right! And the worst part is you need to feed him with a nonevil humanoid's corpse, so no "I'll throw some evil guys at him". That would be troublesome for a party filled with good characters (except for the CN Druid).

I'd give the group some red herrings rather than the whole truth since this is REALLY early to be giving them much information about what is ultimately going on.

That's what I was thinking, too much info in book one would spoil everything and the party would be too prepared. The Druid's logic was "this beast's been here for thousands of years, he know things we can't even imagine".

What's your favorite class from Advanced Classes? Why?

I need some ideas, suggestions and feedback about a really crazy and interesting idea one of my players had.

My party was in the Malfeshnekor fight (Book 1, Thistletop, after Nualia's defeat) and one the players, a girl playing and half-elf Druid, realized she couldn't do anything because she ran out of spells and her attacks didn't surpass the RD 10/magic. She then started talking with Malfeshnekor in the middle of the fight, trying to extract some info about the whole dungeon and the strange image of the man talking in Thassilonian a couple of rooms before. Crazy and hungry as he was, he only spoke about "master" Alaznist.

When the party defeated the Greater Barghest (which luckily stabilized with a natural 20), and after a heated discussion with the Cleric of Gorum, the Druid had the idea of letting the creature trapped in the same room and come back later for interrogating him about the past, the Thassilonian Empire (they talked with the Brodert Quink after the Catacombs of Wrath), Alaznist and etc.

The Cleric wanted to kill the outsider right away, but the Druid said the info about the past would be more valuable.

The party was intrigued with the idea and they were all worn-out with all the fighting. They closed the door, took the key and left Malfeshnekor there. The idea of the Druid is to come back later, fully healed and prepared, and try to extract all the info they can before killing the creature.

tl;dr

What do you think about this idea? Is Malfeshnekor willing to tell the party anything or all the years trapped and hungry have more power? If he speaks, what would be recommendable to tell the party without spoiling too much or giving out the name "Karzoug" immediately?

I know this topic is extremely old but... Are you still answering questions?

If you are, I would like to know if you're able to revive a deceased person. Is that something Dawnflower clerics do on a regular basis or is a very special ritual that requires extra rituals and praying?

(I know the Spell in on her list, I'm asking if is something common to do or if represents a very important faith-demanding action).

I know this thread is "old", but I had to say it was really awesome!

Thank you all for your suggestions, specially FallofCamelot. That breakdown of every single AP was really neat. I did a chart comparing all the info you all gave me and RotRL was the winner.

I have more questions, though.

Before you commit to an adventure Path, I'd suggest the three part series that begins with "Crypt of the Everflame" and finishes with "City of Golden Death". It's tightly focused, and it has variety.

How would you mix Price of Immortality with the first part of RotRL? I got this idea from Lazarx suggestion (why don't we have both?) but I don't really have much info about PoI. I know it's composed on three adventures (level 1, level 3, level 5), but I don't know where is located in Golarion, for example.

Would it be difficult to pull this off? Would the characters have an unfair advantage with those extra levels they would gain with extra adventures? Would the storyline be confusing? Would it be better to run PoI first and THEN go to RotRL? Play RotR a little and THEN go to PoI? Any ideas are welcome.

More "votes" for RotR.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire are OGL and all the other APs have full Pathfinder rules, right?

Do you think the party would be fine? Which enemies/abilities/spells/etc. would be a pain in the neck for this group?

I was thinking in RotR too. I haven't read anything from Shattered Star, I'll give it a look.

What's wrong with Second Darkness? Is it too cheesy? Too OP? Weak story?

I'm starting a new party and I really want to master an Adventure Path. Which one do you suggest? They're all new players to Pathfinder, but they've played several other RPGs before and they learn fast.

They stated that:
-They don't want heavily urban adventures
-They want to face a wide variety of monsters/enemies
-They would prefer a campaign were they don't have to travel half Golarion (same area, same country, etc), so they start knowing the world by steps
-One of the players would like to have water-based encounters once in a while, but it's fine if there's no water at all
-One of the player would like to face drow, but she's fine if there's none

Party
-Half-elf Summoner (Quadruped Pouncer Eidolon)
-Gnome Alchemist (I'm multitalented)
-Elf Fighter (Shield Tactics)
-Half-orc Rogue (Brute Tactics)

I really like these kind of party with no full spellcasters (no Level 9 spells) and they already know about the "buy a bunch of cure light wounds wands" and "potions, scrolls and battlefield tactics are your best friends"

Learn to appreciate item creation feats, and consumables. Grabbing up wands of lesser restoration (750 gp) and cure light wounds (750 gp) can get your paladin and bard healing most ailments. Sadly you have a monk instead of a Ranger, but in general just use good teamwork, have the casters (bard and paladin) grab some item creation feats, and you guys should have a pretty well-rounded party.

We didn't thought about that. That's a great idea, I'll talk about it on table this Saturday.

[...] Scrolls of situationally useful things like Detect Secret Doors, Comprehend Languages, Ghostbane Dirge, Delay Poison, Versatile Weapon, Remove Curse and so on. Scrolls are everybody's friend.

Battlefield control will rely much more on quick thinking and creative use of the environment. [...]

Scrolls? We have that covered. Battlefield control? Those are some great ideas. The ones that use that the most are the Bard and me (the Rogue) but I'll tell them to be ready to flip some tables.

Personally I love having an item creator that can make pearls of power level 1 for the paladin, as they are able to use them to cast lessor restoration (only a level 1 paladin spell). [...]

I would suggest the paladin take selective channeling. Extra lay on hands also turns into more channels. Greater Mercy and ultimate mercy are also awesome...allowing the paladin to basically become the cleric.

Great call on the Pearls of Power, there are lots of useful Level 1 Paladin Spells. About Selective Channeling, I had to look the Feat and I must say it's amazing. In a recent encounter we were in some trouble and thought about using Channeling even if had healed the few remaining opponents. Greater and Ultimate Mercy look great too, specially the part of "I'll use Resurrection without that freaking 5000 GP component because I can!".

If the bard and rogue both pick up Use Magical Device, you'll be covered in quite a few areas. Just buy scrolls and wands whenever you can. Both the paladin and the bard can use wands of the cure spells, so healing out of combat should be alright (though in-combat healing will be a bit difficult if you only have a wand... guess that's what Lay On Hands will protect against).

Yeah, the Bard and I have UMD to the max and I really get the mot use of it. Regarding healing in combat, I think the Paladin could follow the "Selective Channeling" advice.

Also keep in mind that there are FOUR melee characters in your group. While it may be tempting to have 2 of them target 1 foe while the other 2 target another, your group will work best if you FOCUS FIRE foes 1 at a time. Yes, this will mean creating clusterf***s around enemies with your FOUR melee party members (lolz), but you will find that it works best. Having 3 full HP enemies trying to kill you in Round 2 is better than having 2 full HP and 2 low HP enemies trying to kill you. Pro tip.

That is brilliant, we're gonna focus since now.

Thanks you all for your suggestions, feel free to give more if you want to. I have a lot to talk about on the next session. Greetings from Chile~!

I'm currently playing on a Level 8 party with no full spellcasters. So, no Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, Oracle or Witch. We wanted a more challenging style of play with lots of quick-thinking, mundane item use and some helpful magic in the sack.

We started at Level 5 and we're:
-Male Human Rogue: two-weapon fighting and Barney Stinson's attitude / CG / Cayden Cailean.
-Female Elf Bard: archery and bardic awesomeness / CG / Desna
-Male Dwarf Fighter: mace and shield bull rush expert and clever bastard / NG / Torag
-Male Half-elf Monk: unarmed and common sense powers / LG / Irori
-Female Aasimar Paladin: falchion castigator and serious business powers / LG / Iomedae.

BTW, the Bard is going to take some levels in Arcane Archer, gotta love that Prestige Class in PF.

We roam the Isle of Kortos and are in good terms with Absalom.

My question is, what items & spells would be the best to make this party survive? What other ideas do you recommend us? What do you think would be a really difficult encounter for us in general? Which tricks could we use as a party? We have disused this as a party, but I thought that asking here would be interesting.

Thanks in advance.