Leeroyjenkinsbat's page

Just my monthly check-in? Any news? Any changes/ new feats features to question?

Can't wait for the "Can my Eidoloin Help me Preform Battle Medicine" Thead.

Pronate11 wrote:

You could have said this earlier. This makes it clear as day you don't need free hands. I'm not sure what you're doing in universe, but this seems RAI

...Seriously!?

I mean it what I've come to expect everytime a new challenger joins the fray. Repeat all previous arguments no matter how many times you've used them already because they might not have read them.

Exton Land wrote:

Draco18s wrote:

I'm saying that the actions and hands needed are abstracted away as part of the Action that you are performing. I'm not saying they're not utilized I'm saying that they don't take monopoly of my hands.

But they very much do. Pg. 271 - Carrying and Using items tell us you have two hands. If you're changing how you're carrying or holding an item you look to table 6-2 pg 273.

You conveniently skipped over 272.

Quote:

Other abilities might

require you to merely carry or have an item. These apply
as long as you have the item on your person; you don’t
have to wield it.

SSSSSSSSHHHHH!!! We can't talk about 272, I mean how are we to know which abilities work using it or don't its not like we have abilities that say things like "have or wearing a ________ Ki......" carry on.

So to verify your position is any feat that requires a kit must require use of the kit even if it just says have the kit. And if that feat then also requires a free hand it its use and the kit is 2 hands the feat is currently unusable. Just wanting to verify your postion before i launch a deep dive into the things this will be effecting.

Because based on both RAW text and your argument bases, this is totally possible and feasible.

Lol No not even close, you want it to be that way, you want to twist what you know to be a reasonable interpretation into this abomination that you know would never be RAI. But if you want to play that kind of game sure.

You asked earlier why a healers kit is needed if your not weilding it and that takes two hands. Then Quick alchemy can't work as written at least not for 2 handed races. It requires you to have (same wording) Alchemist tools (require 2 hands just like a healers kit) and a free hand. So I'm clearly using a kit that needs 2 hands so no free hand availible. Must have been future proofing for the 3 handed races/class features that we will obviously get later.

Sorry figured the Man's and Like's and fondue was enought.

Draco18s wrote:

Ah, so now you're going to invoke the slippery slope. Cool.

Pretty sure he's just mocking.

yep

bugleyman wrote:

It's not a strawman, it's an inevitable corollary of the argument being made.

The main argument being made is that it explicitly requires a "suitable appendage" (presumably hands or non-humanoid equivalent) but that these hands are not required to be empty (for example, I can slap on a sticky-plaster with a couple of my fingers even though I'm simultaneously holding a sword).

But can't you see man if we got that route then suddenly armless guys will become the norm, or everyone will be a jedi cuz don't you know everyone will either assume or just try to munchkin that they don't need hands at all. So like if they are restrained they can still pick the lock on the manacles cuz no free hands clearly means no hands can't you see how much munchkiny gouda fondue you guys want this to be. Gods if players would just know that its not realistic to be able to hold something in your hand while you still do things with that hand then the game would be a much better place.

Donald wrote:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

You're making the assumption that people have hands at all, or that it's a requirement for the feat, and it's wrong. Nothing in the feat or the trait outright says hands are required or even necessary.

Battle Medicine - trait manipulate

Manipulate - You must physically manipulate an item or make gestures to use an action with this trait. Creatures without a suitable appendage can’t perform actions with this trait.

Hands or a suitable appendage are required and necessary. If you don't have the needed appendage free (tied up, otherwise impaired, or non existent) you can't perform the action. All non magical healing has manipulate, so at least one appendage is needed.

Craft doesn't specify hands used either, I can make a shield by not touching anything in the forge by force of will alone? Neat trick.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

This is GM FIAT shenanigans that, if done at any table, will get you labeled badwrongfun and thrown out of the gaming circle.

The GM has the final word. If someone harasses or bullies the GM to get their way, that's a bad player.

Manipulate doesn't mean an appendage is required. Even if it does, the ability specifies the appendage. No specification means it can be whatever I want. Even my brain counts in this case. Ergo, jedi mind tricks. So yes, I can telekinetically craft or repair a shield with my brain. Or open locks. Or disable hazards. It's a nice interpretation, really.

The GM can just boot the player because he doesn't conform to the GM's jedi mind trick rules. I think we are both in agreement here.

2/10 trolling this thread, I mean could have gone higher but the massive stramwan is keeping you down.

I'm really starting to miss BBT and his thoughts on "HANDS!!!" in pathfinder.

I'm not sure about
1. how I missed this thread 6 years ago.
2. What we actually got out of it.
3. Why I bothered to read the whole thing.

I just wish things like "you need one hand free" would never get nailed down, because if Paizo ever prints a hand-less ancestry (say, blobs of sentient plasma that manipulate things using a very limited TK or whatever with tentacles) people will go up in their

*wait for it*

arms

*I regret nothing*

about such ancestry not being able to do something because the "hands" component is missing.

Doubly so because in PF2 you no longer need to worry about ancestries with multiple appendages being OP due to one hand = one attack paradigm of PF1 no longer being a thing.

Maybe the real answer is how many Metaphysical hands do we need to use something. And a clarification of what can and cant be used as a metaphysical hand.

Metaphysical hands!

*drinks*

HHHHHAAAAANNNNNDDDDDDSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*BLINK BLINK* RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!

clear intent

HAHAHAHA!!!!!

*Headdesk* *Headdesk* *Headdesk* *Headdesk* *Headdesk* *Headdesk* *Headdesk* *Headdesk* *Headdesk* *Headdesk* *Headdesk* *Headdesk*

Man I see a lot of names I miss seeing on the forums in this thread.

We appear to be off topic here.

Welcome to the forums!

Congrats!!!!!!!!

Shartnado

Gisher wrote:

Davor Firetusk wrote:

How about an entire Hardcover, Bards Unchained that collects the existing Masterpieces and tweaks wording as need for a nice way to handle the variety of difficulties in making the ruling.

Wouldn't that be a Bardcover?

G+*+*#nit Gisher

lol

RDM42 wrote:

Also, can people stop trying to slyly drop politics into here? Pretty please?

This is in America, you might as well ask them to not drop words.

Frankly, I'm happy when a post doesn't have Twitter hashtags in it somewhere. :-)

#NoHastags #MakeHashbrownsnotHashtags #CaptainYesterdayforPresident.

WHEEEEEE!!!!

We can always plan B this thing
1. Turn it into a Martial/Caster thread.
2. Argue for weeks in circles ensuring it can't die.
3. End up getting locked there by preventing necromancy!

SMORES!!!!! WHERE!!!!

Slow on the uptake, eh?

What I lack in speed I make up for in sheer obliviousness.

WHEEEEEE!!!!!

To be fair, "fracking close to water" is one of our fastest-growing industries.

Cue rimshot

All hands on deck prepare for spammers.

VAMPIRE BECAUSE........
WHOA-O I'M HALFWAY THEE-RE WHOA-O FLYING THROUGH THE AIR.

Request permission to release the "When I Was Your Age" and "Back In My Day" bombs.

HYPERACTIVE MAMMALIAN CHECKING IN ON USE OF W.M.D.S DO YOU HAVE SENATE APPROVAL......REPEAT DO YOU HAVE SENATE APPROVAL!!!

UHHHH........HYPERACTIVE MAMMALIAN STANDING BY!!!!!

TIME'S UP LETS DO THIS WEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

No. I'm not very good at danging things.

AND I'M GOOD AT FLYING!!!

Jiggy what are your hopes and dreams for future Adventure Paths?

Did you drink the milk?

This thread is the work of an enemy Stand user.

DIIOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mmmmmm chocolate chip shurikens.....

NNNOOOMMMMMNNNOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I submitted a few years back and since I've never had the time. This time I say Nay!! Kobold I will join you and rejoin the ranks of those submitted they may down vote my submission but they will never down vote our freedom!!

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight spam in Product Discussion, we shall fight spam in Paizo General Discussion, we shall fight spam with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our message board, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight spam on the beaches, we shall fight spam on the landing grounds, we shall fight spam in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight spam in the hills; we shall never surrender.

THEY MAY TAKE OUR TIME BUT THEY SHALL NEVER TAKE OUR FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!

CHARGE!!!!!!!!

All hands on deck we have spam.....I repeat we have spam. Full wartime use of AoE's approved....Melee builds get your rings of evasion at the door on your way into the field.

MADE IT IN BEFORE THIS ONE GETS LOCKED......HOPEFULLY!!!!

I'M GONNA GRAB AS MANY OF THEM AS I CAN BEFORE I HAVE TO DO PAYROLL THIS MORNING.

HEY MAN DON'T TALK ABOUT INITIATION!!!!!!!!!

HAVE FUN WISH I WAS GOING!!!!

DRAGON LOOKS AWESOME!!! I CAN TAKE IT THOUGH!!!!!

HERE'S A QUESTION DO YOU LIKE GUITAR SOLO'S PLAYED BY BATS???????!!!

SOUNDS AWESOME AND DANGEROUS!!!!!!!

I'M BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I MADE CHIPOTLE SLIDERS FOR SUPPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!