The specifics of your campaign brought a couple if things to mind that you could consider working in. Don't overdo it, of course, but I thought of the following connections:
** spoiler omitted **
I know it's a long time to wait for a reply to a reply, but I just wanted to let you know your ideas on the General and (more immediately,) the vampire countess/diplomat in Shadows of Gallowspire have struck fertile ground. Most importantly, the Countess Natisha Pavalanis serves as a handy reservation writer for Vrood and his lackeys so I can allow Adrissant to appear in Broken Moon without the players finding his name in the journal and going, "Oh man, we gotta kill him!" ahead of schedule.
However, I decided to present her in a different way... one that demonstrates her usefulness to the Whispering Way without making the players feel like betrayed doofuses, should they choose to parley and work with the vampires of Caliphas (who I'm planning on keeping very Anti-Whispering Way.)
==== Below is my version of Countess Natisha Pavalanis ====
** spoiler omitted **...
How about 11 years for a delay in a reply? My thought is to utilize the above with the slight alteration of changing the name of the Vampire Countess to Countess Atisha Avalanis. Cheeky, I know, but then gives the party another suspect of who might be author of the "A" letters for a period of time.
Forgive the thread necromancy, but in over a decade of playing this game, I can't recall ever getting to write one of these. Players do die in my games, but typically they find a way to be resurrected, so I don't record them on these threads.
Name: Vikar Geirsson
Race: Human (Ulfen)
Classes/levels: Fighter VMC Bard level 5
Adventure: Trial of the Beast
Location: Schloss Caromac
Catalyst: A sketchy rope bridge, a 150 foot drop, gravity, and bad dice rolls
The Gory Details: After being ambushed by rust monsters in the partially exploded alchemical wing, the majority of the party (7 of 8 player characters) rushed to the sketchy looking rope bridge leading further into the schloss abandoning their attempts to defeat the rust monsters. Two other party members failed their checks and saves and end up falling to the bottom of the waterfall 150 feet below. Those two were saved by the wizard's one feather fall spell. Four of the players then retreated to the relative safety of the first manse while the fifth (the wizard) polymorphed into a gargoyle to fly down to the bottom of the waterfall. Poor Vikar, remained behind to fight the beasts, and after dispatching half the rust monsters in single combat (and sacrificing three weapons and his breastplate for his effort), rushed to the bridge to seek to aid his fallen compatriots. Vikar was forward thinking enough to move carefully on the bridge and attempt to wrap the rope guardrails on either side about his forearms (which I ruled granted him advantage on the subsequent acrobatics checks and reflex saves), but alas, not even four rolls were enough to save him. Vikar fell to his demise, seen only in his final moments by those he sought to save.
No one who has attempted to cross that bridge has even made it halfway across so far. We’ll see who can and what happens when they do so next week. Whatever happens, the party did not find or recover Vikar's body, so while this thread may be coming back to life, Vikar most certainly will not be.
I played through the first adventure of Doomsday dawn recently and thought I’d share my feedback.
I’ve never been a fan of pathfinders 1.0 death mechanic. It was everchanging and not immediately knowable without some system knowledge. But 2e makes 1e death mechanics seem basic. I’m begging y’all, consider new players to the system at level 1 are more likely to experience the death mechanic than a high level character that is likely being played by a player with much more system knowledge gained from leveling said character. Y’all are front loading a convoluted mathematical component of the system to players who may be experiencing the system for the first time. Please please please, make the death mechanics, and any mechanics likely to be experienced at level 1, simpler, so I’m not scaring away new players to the system at their first game.
Rule of thumb, don’t force me to consult a table during a game. It kills immersion and enjoyability of the system.
I also found the pregen Barbarian to be too strong on damage and too weak on everything else, if I understood the mechanics correctly. A total of +8 damage from raging (initial +2, doubled from large weapon, doubled from titan mauler) was devastating. When I got confused, I had to metagame to my party ooc to get away from me until I could shake the effect, otherwise I’d likely kill any or all of them in short order. No damage reduction mechanic and low AC made me an ineffective front line defender as well. Damage was too great for a pile of hit points alone to serve as my tankiness and I was a drain on Party resources because of it.
I found the DC’s to be way too high given our bonuses. A door with 3 locks which required perfect execution of the rogue to pick just isn’t fun. I saw the player deflate as they thought, “oh hey, this is my element, this is when I shine... no wait, turns out I’m useless, guess we have to go through the railroaded trapped door.”
Good thing I noted, the cleric loved the changes to the casting mechanic. Being able to spend more actions to increase the size/shape/number of people of his heals appealed to him. He’s been playing clerics in a lot of systems and this was new and exciting for him. Well done there. I think this is a step forward for sure.
The additional effects on critical success and failure of spells also seems like a good idea, although we didn’t get to see it in action much.
Overall, it was tedious and lacked the fun element of being heroes in an rpg. Respectfully, I didn’t care for my first introduction to the new system and fear the direction the game is going. Make more heroes, not more tables.
What you’re looking for is a fairly standard build called “switch hitter ranger”. Typically uses a bow and a greatsword. It’ll also work with a longsword if that’s your preferred weapon. Treantmonk details it in his class guide which is in the stickied post at the top of the Advice forums. I’d start there then search the forums for more up to date advice.
I feel your pain, bud. Ran into this issue myself many times. Even at high level, a well optimized martial character can do unreal damage relative to casters. Casters are unparalleled at battlefield manipulation and control, but blasters just don’t seem to keep up. Couple of suggestions I’ve used or heard off.
1) Modify your mobs. DR is a good start. Also max their hit points and add the simple advanced template (basically +2 to everything). Simple and not perfect, but it helps a bit.
2) Give all caster damage spells free empower spell metamagic. This was the first fix I tried. Works okay, but just means everything dies even faster. We used this until we started using #3.
3) My group has modified damage on iterative attacks and AoO’s. To be simple say you do 2d6+17 damage with a greatsword. In our system, you only get the +17 once per round (you pick which hit it applies to). All your other iterative attacks, AoO, etc. only get the 2d6. This has been the most effective we’ve tried so far, but be ware it greatly modifies the game. It becomes more important to at least hit once than hit many times. Size increases and weapon size increases specifically become huge benefits. Stoneskin and DR become complicated if not nerfed entirely (only get it on big hit or get reduced benefit on lesser hits). Dragons become really scary because the rule is, different attacks each get their +X damage once per round (so bite, claw, wing, tail, etc. each get the +X once). Martial damage becomes more parabolic in its consistency with this system and combats take more rounds. This has been the most effective change we’ve tried but it’s not perfect. Your results may vary kind of thing.
4) Haven’t tried it but am thinking we might soon: Armor converts some damage to non-lethal. Simplest way to apply this is take a character’s flat-footed AC, subtract 10, and that’s how much each hit gets converted to no lethal. This means heavily armored characters can take more hits and are more likely to be knocked unconscious rather than killed outright. Avoidance based tanks get hit harder when they do get hit. Healing becomes more effective in this system as it heals both lethal and non-lethal at the same amount at the same time. Likely will make undead scarier as they are immune to non-lethal. High natural armor creatures such as dragons may be scarier too. This system makes magical damage more potent as it cannot be converted to non-lethal by this. The stalwart feat chain may become ridiculously strong under this system. Haven’t tried this system modification, but it appeals to me in that it mitigates some of the martial damage problem while making different tanking styles have different benefits and may make tanks more desirable overall.
I know you asked for assistance in what creatures to run and not home rules, but I’m hoping some of these might help anyways.
Never played one so don’t have much to offer. One trick I know is to take heirloom weapon for an exotic weapon you’d like so you’re proficient in it. At level 5 you make it your bonded item so you can enchant it up and never need to take the exotic weapon proficient feat.
My bard using the spellsong feat accomplishes what you’re looking for. I’ve gone to great lengths to conceal his abilities. He uses no instruments, choosing instead perform oratory and comedy for versatile performances. He inspires courage using the message cantrip and defaults to always concealing his spellcasting with Spellsong feat. Few people’s perception or sense motive rivals his perform for the opposed check, and most who do lack the spellcraft to identify what he’s casting (clerics mostly being the ones with high scores in those three skills). He also took an archetype that traded away bardic knowledge and has no ranks in any knowledge skills (we have a wizard who’s niche is knowing things, and I didn’t want to overstep him). As such, it’s hard for almost anyone outside the party to get a read on what class he is and what his abilities really are. My favorite phrase among party members for him is, “I’m not that kind of bard”. As I don’t sing, play instruments, noticeably cast spells, of have any knowledges. He’s a spoiled noble’s son with an uncanny ability to make friends and talk down enemies. It’s been tons of fun from an RP perspective.
Side note, Spellsong is better than still and silent in my opinion for what it lets you do with cantrips (without increasing the caster level so they remain at will so long as you have performance to spend).
You can easily reflavor the basic build to be street performer.
I’m playing a Thundercaller bard in a homebrew campaign, and while I’m loving the out of combat opportunities, my in combat options are a bit... wierd. I either just buff the party and feel somewhat useless otherwise or I use Thundercall and trivialize most everything (which I try to do sparingly for the enjoyment of others). I’m looking for some middle of the road options. I’ve been playing mostly as a caster, but the limited spells per day and spells known combined with only 6 casting levels has itself also been disappointing. I picked up Shooting Star Divine Fighting Style feat for a decent combat option and it’s been okay. Doesn’t rival the damage output of anyone else in the party, but holds its own well enough. Then I realized that combined with disarm and/or sunder (perhaps an adamantine starknife), the shooting star technique could really shine, especially with bard buffs going and all that. Seems like a great way to punish brutes that engage the bard in melee. So my questions are two fold:
1) Anyone have any thoughts, experience, or advice with combining Shooting Star divine fighting technique with disarms and/or sunders?
2) Any advice on what else I can to to feel a bit more useful in combat situations?
If you’re just wanting echolocation there’s the samsaran race with mythic past life alternate racial trait (echolocation is a lvl 4 Druid spell).
For a feat, worshipping an outer god or great old one, and a possible drawback when you try to cast it, you could also get the spell via the Dreamed Secrets feat.
Rumpin, i think an errata may have nullified that build. The description of Wolf Trip states, "choose an available space that is both adjacent to you and the creature’s original space for the tripped creature to land prone in." Sadly, this DM is very lenient, so that build likely would have been permitted otherwise.
Lemeres, I'll look into the whip build but it doesn't inspire me as much as i'd like. I recently built a combat patrol dex based fighter for a friend and got to vicariously play the character through him for a campaign. We also have some house rules in place that mitigate damage a bit and limits the effectiveness of precision damage, iterative attacks, and AoO's.
Slyme, I'll look into it, but i was hoping for more fleshed out ideas that otherwise wouldn't be really playable level 1 through 4. An up and coming rage prophet is still pretty effective leveling up even before the prestige class starts. I'm hoping to take more advantage of the opportunity starting at a higher level permits.
I have an upcoming campaign where we are starting at level 5. It's a home brew campaign where we'll be investigating why our city has been magically sealed off from the rest of existence and plagued by an onslaught of summoned creatures each night. I'm pretty open to most anything. I thought this might be an opportunity to play something interesting that doesn't have any viability initially but comes together later on. Any and all ideas are welcomed. 20 point buy, likely no 3rd party material, all Paizo allowed. I want to be very effective at whatever role i'm in, but flavor is always appreciated too.
I've been theorycrafting a throat slicer build but am not sold on it. I've built it with everything from brawler to bloodrager to synthesist summoner to vigilante. Fairly effective, but doesn't come together until level 6 or later.
Thanks for the quick reply. I was unaware of variant multiclassing. I stat'd out a build today and was pretty shocked at how abjectly worse bard with vmc alchemist is compared to a thundercaller bard.
In a game where I am a PC, there is another player who is not very enamored with his bard character. The character is great outside of combat, but in combat he inspires us and occasionally casts some spells, but mostly shoots (and misses) with his short bow, doing minimal damage when he hits compared to the archer fighter or two-handed barbarian. He's been given the option to revamp his character by the DM and I'm assisting.
During a one-off adventure I ran, he played an Alchemist and seemed to really enjoy the bombs aspect. To that end, I was looking for a way to give alchemist bombs to a bard and am coming up short. Alternatively, he may be willing to go alchemist if he could still do inspire courage, but that seems harder to do and I'm not sure he'd want to stray that far from bard.
So to that end, any ideas on how to give bards alchemist-style bombs? Or if not, what do you think a fair trade of bard abilities would be as I'm pretty sure the DM would be willing to allow some house-ruling to ensure he's having more fun.
Second, I generally find it's better to decide on being an arcane caster or arcane melee and go from there, rather than try to be both.
If you prefer melee, have you considered a abyssal bloodline bloodrager? Size increase, great strength, and better BAB puts vital strike back on the table. I made up a quick build a while back that did 9d6+30something at 11th level. I don't think I even put arcane strike on him to reach that damage either. With some time, we can probably optimize it even further for actual table play. If melee is your focus, he will hold up fairly well.
Another melee idea is a cross-blooded (dragon, abyssal) dragon disciple (best with some barbarian multiclassing). Ought to be a very potent melee combatant as I ran a similar build through Rise of the Runelords and was quite pleased.
If you'd prefer a caster focus, say so and we can assist from there. I'll need to review teifling specifics, but they make good sorcerers for sure.
Ring of Revelation - Ultimate Equipment - oracle only item that grants access to an additional revelation in their mystery. If your oracle has worked on Use Magic Device, you may be able to grant him revelations from other mysteries. If not, still useful for a bonus revelation or additional uses of one he already has.
If he has worked on use magic device, consider prophetic armor revelation from the lunar mystery. Then you can drop celestial plate armor for him and make him a formidably tanky character.
Stats, feats, play style, spell selection, etc. would be beneficial for additional assistance to be easily offered.
I know that strictly by rules, only one of your bloodlines may be wild; however, assuming the GM would allow both bloodlines to be permitted as wild, how well do you all think this would work?
Idea is a nature oriented dwarf with a musket and a bear animal companion. I know something similar could be done more simply with a druid, or even a gunslinger with the animal ally feat chain, and perhaps those would be stronger. I don't know. Just a random idea I had that I wanted some feedback on.
Use a buckler then and just eat the -1 to attack when you two-hand the scimitar. It's bonus is equivalent to a light shield anyway, and you can enhance it up just the same. Probably should be doing this anyway if you are casting any spells with somatic components.
Did this on my Sorc/Barb/DD with a longsword and buckler. AC when you need it, damage when you don't.
I see your point about the antimagic field. While a minor artifact, I don't want too many boons on it. I'm wanting the party to ultimately seek to neutralize the item. I think the spell protection is sufficient as the favor portion as it is a "free get out any spell I throw at you card", if the wizard is willing to roll the dice (pun intended). I'm now considering the following:
_______________________________________________
Pit Fiend’s Favor – Cursed
Lavender and Green Ellipsoid (Ioun Stone) variant
Aura strong abjuration and conjuration; CL 20th (Spellcraft DC 35 to identify; DC 45 to identify as cursed)
Slot —; Price —; Weight —
DESCRIPTION (DC 35 Spellcraft check)
This item will only function for Asmoneus the Amazing.
This stone absorbs spells of any level (even 9th level or higher) with no limit on the amount of spell levels it can absorb. The owner chooses whether or not to activate this ability (free action). Each time the stone absorbs a spell, there is a chance of the stone being crushed and forever destroyed. The chance is equal to ten minus the spell level of the spell absorbed (See table below). This counts as willfully crushing the stone as described below.
At any time the owner of this stone may willfully crush the stone (free action as long as one hand is free, unless crushed by spell as above). This destroys the stone and attempts to summon the pit fiend with whom the stone is tied.
Spell lvl Odds % Chance
1) 1 in 9; 11.11%
2) 1 in 8; 12.50%
3) 1 in 7; 14.29%
4) 1 in 6; 16.67%
5) 1 in 5; 20.00%
6) 1 in 4; 25.00%
7) 1 in 3; 33.33%
8) 1 in 2; 50.00%
9+) 1 in 1; 100.00%
CURSED EFFECTS (DC 45 Spellcraft)
-Aura includes a previously undetectable enchantment-
It is a cursed artifact that cannot be removed. It is immune to all spells of lower than 9th level and cannot be removed with Remove Curse or similar spells. There are specific and as of yet unknown conditions by which this item may be permanently removed or destroyed without activating the summoning ability.
Further, the stone permits the pit fiend to telepathically communicate with the stone’s owner. The pit fiend, not the owner, determines when this telepathic ability is active.
Finally, when within line of sight of an evil outsider, the stone’s owner must make will save versus Overwhelming Presence (as the spell). The DC is equal to 10 + ½ the evil outsider’s HD + the evil outsider’s Cha modifier. When the stone's owner saves against this effect, they are immune to the effect for that specific evil outsider for 24 hours.
_______________________________________________
The point is for the stone to be crippling and humiliating when confronted with an evil outsider, as the pit fiend was when first confronted by the PCs. I like the variable DC, so that minor demons and devils aren't likely to succeed, but they might. The pit fiend himself would present a DC 28 will save. He also will get a save every round to shake the effect, though a lingering effect remains.
Other spells I considered, but wasn't sold on included trap the soul and temporal stasis. I'm open to other ideas.
There are several references to Karzoug along the way. The background of the wizard in the party is that he is an elf obsessed with Thassilonian culture. He took the background trait (or was it a feat?) offered in the player's guide so he speaks the language, has a bonus spell like ability per day, etc. I've also been giving him a +2 on all knowledge checks involving Thassilonian culture due to his character's background. So at level 1, he was already rocking a +11 knowledge history check for Thassilonian related things. By the time they made it to the bottom of Thissletop, he was at a +15 or higher I think. I gave him a roll (same DC) on both the wall carvings and the permanent image and he made one of them. Interesting side note, the fighter has become obsessed with Alaznist after finding her statue; He's completely changed his fighting style so that he can use the ranseur recovered there.
As far as the item, it's a cursed item and cannot be removed. So simply handing it to the fighter is not an option. Now they could all just group up around the wizard, and I had thought of that. I've been weighing rewarding their tactical sense by allowing them to do it or by making the antimagic field self-only instead of a 10ft aura. Again, ties in to too harsh or too soft.
Also, the description states, "but if they do release him, he may or may not return at some later point, healed and revitalized, seeking to murder the PCs in order to ensure those who saw him in such a humiliated state do no spread tales!". Combined with fact that the wizard is EXTREMELY arrogant and continued to be so in the face of a weakened pit fiend, I'm pretty sure that the revenge is a matter of when, not if.
So B.A. Robards, your post leaves me still unsure. At first your state that it seems too harsh and then state the antimagic might be a great boon. I'm not sure which direction to go.
Need some help with a cursed item. Again, this will contain some RotRL spoilers, so read no further if you don’t want to see them. I recognize cursed items are a tricky thing to add to the game, so I’m trying to make it a blessing and a burden.
Background:
The party just finished with the skull dam in the third book. They made a deal with the pit fiend there to power floodgates of the dam. I should include here that the party is much more neutral than good, and there are absolutely no lawful good characters in the party. Specifically, in return for its freedom, the pit fiend was required to power the dam immediately to alleviate the current problem (which he did by summoning two level 1 devils). Additionally, the pit fiend swore to ensure the dam was powered for the next 100 years without using innocents or good outsiders as fuel (evil outsiders, evil humanoids, etc. are fine to use as fuel). He must also see to it that the damage made to the dam by the ogres is repaired. There were some caveats. The pit fiend is to return to its home plane as soon as it is capable and remain there for 100 years and a day, with the exception of returning strictly to the confines of the dam as needed to see to its repair and powering. It can take no action against the party member for 100 years and a day. It can take no action against the party members’ family or descendants for 500 years. All pretty standard stuff, although I did note they forbade actions, not words. So I could have him send others to harass the party, and still might do that.
Then the party got greedy <evil grin>
After the party heard how the pit fiend was imprisoned, they included in the deal that the wanted to be able to summon him 1 time if and when they face Karzoug. The pit fiend included the verbiage, “and I will only answer your summon if I feel I have been made whole.” The party obviously thought he was referencing his level draining, but part of being made whole is to remove the slight he feels at being perceived so weak by these mortals. The pit fiend is in the details. Then the subject turned to how they would summon him. The party asked for his true name, which he flatly refused. The party then said, and I quote, “Okay, we’ll leave the method of summoning you up to you”. The pit fiend did add the verbiage, “If you summon me, and it is not when you are fighting Karzoug, the entire deal is void.” They agreed. Finally, the greedy, greedy, GREEDY wizard asked for “a favor”, but never defined the favor.
The Item:
So here is my thought, I want to give him a cursed ioun stone as both the means to summon him and as the "favor” to the wizard. I was thinking a variant of the lavender and green ellipsoid stone that traditionally can absorb up to 50 spell levels up to 8th level. However, the cursed item would not have a limit on number of spell levels it could absorb and could absorb any spell level (even 9th or above). The catch is simple, there is a % chance every time it absorbs a spell that it is crushed (destroyed) and will attempt to summon the pit fiend. The % chance varies based on level of spell absorbed. Specifically, the chance is 10 minus the level of spell absorbed (ex. 1 in 9 or ~11% chance for a level 1 spell , 1 in 2 or 50% chance for a level 8 spell, or 100% chance for a level 9 spell). This gives the wizard an “instantly get out of any spell I throw at you” card, but with a Russian roulette catch. Using the item is a willful action, so using it outside of the battle with Karzoug could void the deal if the random roll comes up with the item attempting to summon the pit fiend.
Additionally, I want the item to have a property where it emanates an antimagic sphere whenever it is within 100 feet of an evil outsider as a means of protecting its owner from the harmful spell like abilities such creatures are known to possess. The item will obviously be immune to its own effect, and will cripple the wizard at close range. I made it 100 feet so that potentially the wizard could get outside 100 feet and function normally. The point of this “protection” is to have a significant enough negative effect to entice him to seek to remove the cursed item. The party knows Karzoug summoned two pit fiends at once to initially power the dam, so they should recognize having this item when they go up against him would be a severe liability, Especially since Karzoug will be well aware of all this by the time that battle comes.
If an additional positive quality is needed, I thought of giving the item a +2 inherent bonus to Intelligence. Entice him a bit more to use the item.
That moves us to the removal of the item. The item is clearly artifact level so requires a special means of total destruction. My thought is to have the item immune to all spells of 8th level or lower (so no simple removal with remove curse). The item can be permanently removed in one of two ways. If a mage’s disjunction spell is cast on it, followed by a wish spell, it can be removed, and at which point it immediately returns to the pit fiend (this does not nullify the deal). Alternatively, if the owner bathes in the waters of the Runeforge’s runewell after it has been drained of all of its creative energies, a simple remove curse item will destroy the item completely (this also does not nullify the deal). Learning of these two means of removing the item will take time and research.
The DC to identify the item is DC 35 (15+CL of crafter). The DC to determine it is cursed is therefore DC 45. I’m thinking he ‘might’ make the first. There is no possible way he makes the second (even on a 20). So I’m thinking of telling him the traditional properties of a lavender and green ellipsoid ioun stone that if crushed will attempt summon the pit fiend.
So thoughts? Too harsh? Too soft? Does it need the +2 inherent to Int? Suggestions about the item or what else I should do? Do you feel the wizard would need to willfully don the item or was that already freely given when the deal was struck?
Honestly, and I'm no expert on this, but it sounds like there may be an underlying learning disability involved here.
Your player is cooperative, experienced, and aware of the generalities of his character's abilities, but it seems like he struggles on retaining the details. Find out his techniques for retaining information while he was in school and use similar techniques. As stated previously, flash cards are a good starting point for most people.
Dex based fighter archer does everything you want. Base fighter though, no archetypes. You'll be in heavy armor with full dex to AC and no movement speed penalty befor you know it. Added fun, get traits that add stealth and acrobatics as class skills. The fighter ability that increases max dex also decreases ACP. You'll be able to stealth amazingly well in full plate without any ACP eventually. Being a fighter opens up weapon specialization (fantastic) which opens up point blank master (ridiculously awesome for high AC bow tanking). What more could you want?
Can't be a wizard for dragon disciple, as it requires spontaneous casting (sorcerer, bard, summoner)
Rather than ranger, consider barbarian for raging (more Str!). Urban barbarian is very nice for this build due to controlled rage (all the Str, none of the drawbacks!)
As far as what to do when not polymorphed... Lesser / greater beast and leaser fiend totems, power attack, 2handed weapon, haste boots or spell... Pounce - weapon / weapon iteratives / weapon haste / bite / gore.
Don't worry about your lower BAB, you'll find your strength bonus more than makes up for it.
Also, fantastic Str = fantastic CMB. Improved Sunder and Improved Bull Rush are nice.
I've posted about DD builds several times on these boards. Check out my post history for more threads from people working on similar characters. You'll find a ton of advice from many different people in those threads.
Though, wouldn't a weapon you take in two hands provide inherently better damage in a strength set up?
That's why I recommend longsword. It can be two-handed when you want to lay down the damage with power attack and 1.5xStr. A 1d8 longsword versus a 1d10 bardiche or glaive is a difference of 1 point less damage on average. Even versus a 2d6 greatsword, it's only 2.5 less on average. Personally, I feel the versatility of having a shield bonus when you need it warrants it.
Excellent points about still spells / no somatic with EK level 10 ability. Also, good call on casting magic weapon for spiked gauntlets, but I don't think it would work for the claws (natural weapons I believe, would need magic fang).
Also, to the OP, I know you've selected Sacred Shield archetype, but I might suggest considering oath of vengeance paladin 4 / Sorc 1 into DD 4 / EK 10 / Sorc 1. You'll cap out at CL 16 and 7th level spells, but you'll get the ability to convert lay on hands into extra smites on a 2 for 1 basis. You can't get extra smites with feats, but you can get extra lay on hands that way. You won't be halving damage of allies within 10, but you'll be smiting ~ 4 times per day at level 4, up to ~9 times at level 20 without investing any feats in it. And each extra lay on hands feat you put into it adds 1 more effective smite per day. Cha to AC and attacks that many times per day makes you a threat evil enemies can't ignore.
Edit: edited to correct a math error. Division is hard, peoples!
True, the build we're discussing is the one you suggested, and he has not stated he's going to use it. Still, the 26 Cha is only with a +6 item and a +5 inherent bonus. It accounts for no level increases. That said, as the tank I'd be throwing all of my level increases into Cha. Str is for damage; Cha is for saves and 1 per day (2 with an item) deflection bonus to AC.
Also, since you aren't feat starved at the moment, consider Combat Casting. Then just make your concentration checks and not worry about casting within reach. Actually, given range of possible enemy sizes and their respective reaches in the game, this is probably much more reliable than a reach weapon.
Blave wrote:
Your spell DC won't be high enough to make casting in combat useful.
I'm not sure I agree with this. As a Paladin 2 / Sorc 3 / DD 4 / EK 10 / Sorc 1 at 20th level he will be casting 8th level spells with a caster level of 18. His Cha should be in the 26-30 range and irregardless the number of no save or partial effect spells is extensive.
Edit: On top of that, may I recommend looking into a reach weapon rather than sword and shield? Partially because when you want to try a spell with somatic components, you need to free a hand quickly, partially because that will help you control more of an area (attacks of opportunity, yay!).
A buckler is strapped to your forearm and a longsword is a one-handed weapon. It's a free action to hold it in one hand or two. Having a free hand is a non-issue for longsword / buckler user.
Reach is good but you don't threaten adjacent squares. Your limited use claws or a spiked guantlet can resolve this, but probably won't be as well enchanted as your main weapon. The ability to cast spells outside of reach freely is nice kinda though. Problem is, with arcane armor, you'll never cast a spell as a swift action, so any round you cast a spell will be at least a standard action. So full attack plus a quickened spell can never happen for you. Personal preference I guess, but I found that I could usually 5 foot step back to cast if I really needed to. The following round, if the enemy didn't close, I'd 5-foot back and full attack. Alternatively, (and preferably) I'd just cast before combatants closed the distance (buffs or ranged spells). After all, if you make them close, they have a round with only one attack (forgetting about pounce) whereas you can then full attack.
AoO are nice, but you need Combat Reflexes to shine. If you take the reach weapon advice, definitely need this feat. Without feats like combat patrol, stand still, and pin down, AoO are more offensive than defensive.
Personally, I found being able to choose between better AC or better damage a better deal for my DD than reach, but your results may vary.
Arcane armor feat chain may be worth it. I only took the first one and limited myself to a Mithril chainshirt (but again I was a barbarian, so AC was not a priority). With both feats, you'd be at a 0% arcane spell failure with a Mithril BP (and have no movement speed reduction and can sleep in it) or 5% arcane spell failure with Mithril Fullplate (movement speed reduced by 10 and can't sleep in it without the endurance feat). Remember that it does consume your swift action in every round you cast a spell. So when you reach level 10 of eldritch knight and crit, the spell you get to cast as a swift action won't receive the benefit of these feats (and this will be at 20-25% failure). Not a huge deal and still might be worth it, especially if you don't have any other priority feats. Your save DC's won't be incredible, but they also won't be awful (especially once you get a Cha item). You'll mostly just be a little behind on caster level, so SR will hurt a bit.
The alternative is to focus on long duration spells and cast them in the morning before you armor up.
I assume your level 4 ability bonus will be going into Cha?
You got the basics down. I suggest going buckler / longsword. Both are commonly found as loot. Also, it doesn't hurt that a Holy Avenger is a longsword. You can sword and board when you need the AC or two-hand the longsword when you don't (with a minor -1 to your attacks). At high level, you'll be able to increase your AC by 6 (w/ a +5 Mithril buckler) or increase your damage by 5-6 points per hit (power attack) plus add 1.5 x your Str instead of just Str as you see fit. Versatility rocks.
As far as feats, see if your DM will allow you to take the 3.5 feat Improved Buckler Defense. It allows you to keep your shield bonus to AC, but will still not negate the -1 penalty to attacks. Still, if this feat is permitted, consider it essential.
I took multiattack (requires DM approval I believe), but I also was a barbarian/DD with beast and fiend totems. If your DM allows unlimited use of your bloodline claws, this feat may be worthwhile so you can 1Hsword/bite/claw on creatures without DR or 2Hsword/bite with it.
I also took Intimidating Prowess and Cornugon Smash because free debuffs are nice. You could also consider weapon focus into Dazzling Display, but I did not take this path on my DD.
With such high Str, your CMB will be impressive, so I also took Improved Sunder.
I used a +1 keen holy cold iron longsword through the majority of my career (up to and including killing Karzoug) and was quite happy with it. Being a Paladin, however, you might be better off getting a Holy Avenger if you can and getting the Improved Critical feat.
I know it isn't what you asked for, but if it my character was turned into a lich without my consent by a man who betrayed my friends and i, and is directly responsible for the death of said friends...I'd destroy him. I wouldn't care that he is my phylactery; I never planned to live forever anyhow. I'd be happy with living my extended lifespan afterwards and dying whenever someone managed to destroy me, content in the knowledge that the betrayer no longer existed. He cost me my immortal soul already, what's one lifespan versus a thousand compared to that?
And there are some good-aligned elven liches in one of the Faerune books, so as a DM I'd allow the PC to keep whatever alignment he started as. Not that that would stop clerics and paladins from unquestioningly seeking to destroy his undead form, mind you. He'd have to keep that well hidden if he sought to continue interacting in public.
Sounds like a terrible party though. As a DM, I wouldn't allow the betrayer's actions to begin with, but I tend to prohibit PvP at my table from the start.
I apologize if my searching-fu was not adequate; Is crafting specific weapons as a different type of weapon permitted? If so or if up to DM discretion, do you think permitting it would be unbalancing?
Examples: making a Luckblade a longsword instead of short sword, making a short bow version of an Oathbow instead of a longbow, etc.
Strength = barbarian / sorcerer / dragon disciple with improved eldritch heritage (abyssal or Orc). You can also do a barbarian / Druid / alchemist for even higher Str, but I'm not as familiar with that build.
Dexterity = I like dex based fighter with an agile weapon. Trait to get acrobatics as a class skill. Stealth around if Mithril full plate at no penalty, acrobatics through the battlefield with impunity, ridiculously high AC. Weapon finesse, Combat reflexes, combat patrol, pin down, stand still feats. I made this character for a friend to play and compared to my dex based ninja, there was no contest.
Con = scarred witch doctor w/ improved eldritch heritage (pit-touched) if your DM allows wild blooded bloodlines for that feat
Int = wizard
Wis = zen archer is fantastic, and probably the best. I also like an inquisitor with the conversion inquisition and guided weapon property. I have a Dwarven archer running this and in combat he is a beast and out of combat his social skills (bluff, diplo, intimidate, sense motive) are stellar.
Cha = bard is a good choice, but I'm going to go with half-elf lore or lunar oracle with noble scion of war feat. Cha instead of dex to initiative, AC and reflex. Cha based caster. Worship Nethys and get underlying principles trait. Use paragon surge to have access to all cleric spells at level 6. Use paragon surge to get improved eldritch heritage (arcane) to have access to all wizard spells at level 11. Spell perfection paragon surge at level 15 to be able to quicken it without spending higher spell slots.
Both enchantment and necromancy deal with the loss of free will. Enchantment through mind affecting charms and dominates and Necromancy through raising the dead, commanding intelligent undead, and bestowing curses. If your character favored free will (plausible given your desire to freely pursue knowledge and lore), it is easy to see why he would find those particular schools distasteful.
But as stated before, reasons for opposition schools aren't really necessary. Perhaps your character doesn't dislike any schools, but just struggles with those two for some reason. He can still cast them, but it requires much more effort (justification for using two spell slots). If I recall the Harry Potter books correctly, Hermione struggled with one or two of the subjects taught to them despite being very adept at most others with no real reason given or needed.
I disagree. The minuses should not be geometric like the pluses.
Meh. At that point it's personal preference I guess. My method makes his effective point buy a 22. Yours makes his effective point buy a 32. Knowing the stats of the other characters in the party would make the determination of which is more fair easier to make.
Either way, he may decide not to trade in his high value stats to raise his low one. In that case, don’t pull any punches as it is no longer a product of bad luck and now a conscious decision.
My thought was to let him use point buy to reallocate from his current points. He takes one of his higher rolls drops it down and releases points to bring his score up. Would this seem fair?
This is a very elegant solution to the problem and I'd favor it.
He is in the hole 16. Allow him to cash in however he wants on his other stats to get out of it.
But your numbers are off for dropping a 17 to a 16, as it frees up 3 points, not 10. Dropping his 17 to a 13 would free up 10 points, however, which could be used to raise his cha from a 3 to a 6. It's costly, but allows him to not be so easily crippled.
I'll have to get back to you on her current stats and favored enemy. It's kingmaker, so i figure Fey, Undead, Humanoid (giant) and Humanoid (human) may be suitable choices for favored enemy. Any other recommendations?
One of the players in an upcoming Kingmaker game (wherein I am also a player) is wanting to play a Gnome Ranger, Archery Style, Beastmaster archetype. The character will be using a small-sized composite longbow. I imagine at some point she will be taking the Boon Companion feat as well.
I'm very concerned that this character will be very weak, especially considering when its compared to the rest of the party, which includes a Battle Cleric of Gorum, a Magus (Intensified Frostbite or Shocking Grasp), a Half-elf Dual-Cursed Lunar Oracle (very powerful animal companion), a ninja (not sure on build), and a bard (not sure on build).
I'm afraid the racial penalty to str combined with no bonus to either dex or wis will really hurt this character.
Any tips, tricks, feats, traits, etc. that anyone can recommend to increase the combat effectiveness of this character? She's new to the system and will be very open to suggestions in that regard; however, I'm afraid the race, class, combat style, and archetype are most likely non-negotiable.
I allowed one of my players to take the Improved Familiar feat and retain his rat familiar he had before. In exchange, the familiar can cast a spell 1/day from his spellbook like a bonded object. I figure, I don't have to worry about an improved familiar wielding wands and plenty of familiars have multiple SLA's anyway. While certainly more versatile and powerful than a standard Improved familiar, it is weaker than some builds with Improved familiar and weaker than a straight bonded object in that he can’t enchant it. Win / Win.
He roleplays it as a spellcaster in its own right, but who only casts a spell when it's absolutely needed. Always with a snicker and a shake of its tiny little head (complete with miniature pointed hat), it casts the exact spell needed to remedy a sticky situation. It's tons of fun, especially when the little familiar has to save the haughty and arrogant caster every now and then.
I mean, if that Son of Zeus character you proposed were to select Strength to AC, he would have nearly every aspect of his character, other than skills, running off a single ability score.
Funnily enough, Strength is the single easiest score to boost in the game as well. The Blood Rage spell can give you a +10 Morale Bonus to Strength, Form of the Dragon III can give you a +10 size bonus to strength, so just from those 2 spells, one gets a +20 bonus to strength, which you can stack on the fact you went 20 Str at 1st level, have a +6 inherent bonus (Imp. Eldritch Heritage - Abyssal), put all of you ability increase into Strength and are wearing a +6 belt. So you end up with a 57 Strength or a +23 modifier. You're going to have an obscene number of spells-per-day, a nearly impossible to resist DC, amazing saves, great AC, and a beast in melee combat as well.
Agreed. The Strength to AC and inherent strength increases through bloodlines are part of the silly divine trait things you can do, which I consciously chose to leave out of my suggestion above. If a player values his DM's campaign, he doesn't do that. He chooses not to select those spells, chooses not to take that bloodline(s), and chooses not to take the Rage subdomain. He instead chooses spells like Flaming Sphere, Fireball, Sleet Storm; taking advantage of being able to apply his lightning in ways not normally seen (and if really committed, refuses to cast those spells without altering their type to lightning, regardless of resistances). He chooses to take the air or weather domain to get cloud spells, flying spells, and lightning themed spells and domain powers. He chooses to not take STR to AC so he doesn't lose all possible frailties. I suggested STR to saves because having all poor saves would be crippling for a character. Alternatively he could take the STR replacing DEX to AC and Reflex so he has a great reflex save, probably a decent Fort as he wouldn't want a poor CON with only d6 HP. And that would leave only Will low. But a player who values his DM and game won’t do both STR to all saves and to AC. Responsible players build their characters with flaws and weaknesses without being crippled and a liability to their party.
As I said, if used for flavor, it can serve to make a useful ally. If used for brokenness, it quickly becomes game breaking.
And remember, I did say it was overpowered in my initial post suggesting it.
yes but it seems i don't really need more than 15INT (see Lacdanna advice)
so i was thinking to boost something else...
Is he wrong?
You wound me, sir. You wound me.
Other than that, what everyone else said. Picking a race with a bonus to Int isn't required. The difference in a point buy for a 13 starting score and 15 starting score is 4 points. If getting racials to other ability scores saves you more than 4 points, it is more beneficial to do that. Since you probably want around an 18 STR to start, the difference between a starting score of 16 and 18 is 7 points. So you'd save 3 points that could be spent elsewhere.
Gregory Connolly makes a great point about thinking ahead. You will need the following:
Int Score by Level:
lvl 1 and 2 = Int 11
lvl 3 and 4 = Int 12
lvl 5 and 6 = Int 13
lvl 7 and 8 = Int 14
lvl 9 and 10 = Int 15
lvl 11 and 12 = Int 16
lvl 13 and 14 = Int 17
lvl 15 and 16 = Int 18
lvl 17, 18, 19 and 20 = Int 19
Bolded levels are where you get ability score increases; note you get them at a slower rate than you need them, so plan ahead. Honestly, if you can count on getting a +2 headband before level 7, a +4 headband before level 11, and a +6 headband before level 15, you wouldn't need above a 13 INT at the start and would never have to put an ability score increase into INT. However, any ability score damage to INT could cause you to not be able to cast your highest level spells, so beware.
What's really important is realizing that this wizard won't play like most others people are familiar with. He has to be indirect with his spells or use no-save ones: Summons, buffs, transformations, some of the walls, etc. Anything with a save must be treated with hesitation. Spells with effects that occur even upon a save may still have some use if the save effect is strong enough.
Ugh, the Godling... My cousin has a Godling in his campaign and it's been a problem character. Min-maxed Int, Int for saves, and he also has some ability that lets him add his Int to his AC instead of Dex...
He's probably using the Divine Trait: Divine Power I: Lore Mystery: Sidestep Secret to get his casting stat instead of Dex to AC and Reflex. The Lunar Mystery has a similar ability as well.
Tels wrote:
The Godling is just a poorly designed class IMO.
No real argument here. I find it best used for a BBEG or for when you have a character concept in mind that you want to create but don't want to create a crippled character in the process.
For example, instead of lightning as a minor ascendency he could do sonic or force as a major one and almost guarantee nothing will ever be resistant to his damage. Also you can get absolutely silly with the divine traits. If you go into it with being broken in mind, it will be disgusting. If you go into it wanting flavor, you will still be very powerful. But you will accomplish your flavor without being a liability to the party.
Depends on your maturity, level-headedness, and relationship with the GM and the world he is building (no offense intended to your cousin). Something about "with great power" or some-such.
What I'm about to suggest is overpowered. Know that going in.
Eldritch Godling (3rd party from SGG)
1/2 BAB, all poor saves, full 9th level spontaneous spellcaster, choose your spell list and casting stat, no arcane spell failure for armor, no concentration checks.
Choose Cleric/Oracle spell list (for flavor) or Wizard/Sorcerer list (for power) and STR as casting stat. Use minor ascendency for common element ascendency: lightning. Now any spell you cast that does HP damage can be lightning damage. Choose human as race, drop your favored class bonus into getting +1/2 divine trait, at level two get Divine Trait: Divine Power I: Battle Mystery: Skill at Arms. You are now proficient in Heavy armor and all martial weapons. Use a 2-hander of some variety. Use one of your feats at level 1 to get Extra Talent: Force of Brawn to use Str as ability score for all saves. At some point drop another feat into Extra Talent: Smite Rival for a 1/day smite that uses CON to attack and level to damage. At level 13, use Major Ascendency converted to Minor Ascendency to get Talent for Mysticism: Divine Weapon so as a free action you can summon a weapon you are proficient in that is made of lightning. You also get 1 domain (2 if you drop another minor ascendency into it). Pick up Air or Weather Domain (or both). Obviously, get Power Attack at some point.
You are the son of Zues, walking around in full plate calling lighting down on everyone and striking with a 2-hander made of lightning that you summon into existence.
There are other, more powerful things you can do, but I'll stop there as you can find them on your own if you desire and the above makes a powerful character with the flavor you desire.
P.S. I call the dragonslayer son of Kord I stat'd up as a variant of what I suggested to you "Strong SAD"..... I crack myself up.
Also, as a shapeshifter focused wizard, you can start with a total Int score of 15 (including racial bonus) and have access to all of your spell levels with just the +1 ability bonus every 4 levels. You can even start with lower if you want to depend on magic items. This will give you plenty of flexibility to beef up your physical stats. You'll have to rely on buffing, utility, and no-save spells, as your DC's will be quite low, but it is a valid option.
