LCFlores91's page

I think you're asking two questions.

Q: Are all creatures flat-footed before their first action in combat, or is that rule only for PCs?
A: All creatures (whether monsters or PCs) are flat-footed until they act (see Losing Your Dex Mod, Hero's Handbook page 58). This means creatures that act before them make their attack rolls against the creature's lower (flat-footed) Armor Class.
(The Hero's Handbook is written for players, but its rules apply to monsters, too.)

Q:. Rogues add sneak attack damage to opponents that are flat-footed. Is that only for rogues, or do other classes and monsters add sneak attack damage, too?
A: That's a special class ability of rogues, and only rogues get to add sneak attack damage under those circumstances. Other classes and monsters just get the normal "I get to roll against your lower, flat-footed AC" benefit for attacking a flat-footed creature. Basically, "you lose your Dex bonus when you haven't acted yet" is a general rule that applies to everybody, and "you can sneak attack when your opponent hasn't acted yet" is a special rule only for rogues.

And just to be clear, I'm going to answer a question you didn't ask:
Q: Once the first round ends and we change to the top of the initiative for round two, is everyone flat-footed again?
A: No, you're only flat-footed at the start of a combat, and it doesn't reset every round (fortunately!).

Thanks for clarifying, Sean! This will help a lot at this week's game. I had assumed the condition applied to everyone until they acted in initiative order, but even on p. 58 I couldn't find exactly where that particular aspect was touched upon. The "Losing Your DEX Mod" section only says you become flat-footed when surprised or paralyzed. Again, I understand now, but I am just wondering if maybe this was an oversight in writing or if perhaps if it has been reworded in newer printings (or the more likely answer, it's covered somewhere and I am just not seeing it! :D)

LCFlores91 wrote:

This may just be me but in the BB I could have sworn characters were flat-footed until their place came up for the first time in initiative, just like in the CRB, but now I can't find it anywhere. How does flat-footed work in the BB?

It's simplified. See Surprise in Hero's Handbook page 54 and Losing Your Dex Mod on page 58. It's also relevant to the rogue for sneak attack (page 24).

Thanks for the hasty reply! I looked in both places and I understand how Flat-Footed would apply in a surprise round, but the "Conditions" Section in the GMG states that creatures are flat-footed until they have acted in initiative. Now, on p. 24 of the HH, it says Rogues apply sneak attack damage to creatures that have yet to act in Initiative. Does this only apply to Rogues in the BB, or do all monsters/players attack as though lower initiatives were flat-footed in combat unt they act? If so, where would this be covered in the BB text? Thanks again for the reply, and I'm sorry if the answer is really obvious and my group and I are just missing it /: We're all new to the game, and are leading as we go.

This may just be me but in the BB I could have sworn characters were flat-footed until their place came up for the first time in initiative, just like in the CRB, but now I can't find it anywhere. How does flat-footed work in the BB?

Well, 10 Con for a fighter is gonna make you regreat your choice soon or later, but I guess that it should not be so bad in a socially oriented campaign and once you get Combat Reflexes/Whip Mastery feats to trip or disarm whatever enter your threatened zone.

It's already been confirmed that we'll have someone to tank. The fighter aspect of this build is really just for feats and the Cad flavor. Also, unless my GM and I are reading it wrong, I can't apply Heirloom Weapon to a whip, can I?

With the Heirloom Weapon trait and with a full fighter level (or one level in bard for the proficiency, suggesting either vanilla bard, Archeologist or Dervish Dancer, which in either case make you not lost BAB since Inspire Courage counterbalances it), you may begin with :

8/18/14/13/12/12

You may want to take a look at the Tactician fighter if you wish skill points, class skills and to help allies.
There is also this archetype that could really interest you if your DM allows for external content.

Let's say one level of bard, and the rest in vanilla fighter.
So, at second level :

Traits : Heirloom Weapon (Whip ; +2 to one maneuver (Trip)), ???

H. Weapon Finesse
1. Combat Expertise
2(F). Improved Trip

BAB : +1
Melee : +5 (add +1 with inspire courage)
CMB : +1 (+10 when using trip with the Whip ; +8 for disarm with the Whip) (+1 with inspire courage)

Att : Masterwork Scorpion Whip ; +6, 1d4-1 20x2

You're beginning with a +11 average to trip, and +9 to disarm.
(Agile maneuvers is used to calculate the CMB for maneuvers not using a weapon and not made as an attack but as a standard action. Trip and disarm may replace attacks, so you have BAB + Dex + Weapon Bonuses + Feats + Any other potential bonus... here, the Heirloom Weapon for Tripping, attempts and the Disarm feature of the whip. 1+4+1+2+2 for trip,...

This is looking great! Remember, with the nerfed magic, I'm grabbing a bonus feat at 1st level (Although at this point I'm just dipping i Vanilla Bard at 1st level to snag the feat, features, skills and proficiency with the whip).

What I have drawn up so far:

Human
10/18/10/13/12/16

1st (Bard 1): Heirloom Weapon (Whip) (This is still pending as the GM has not responded to me just yet), Combat Expertise (Human), Improved Trip (1st), Weapon Finesse (Setting Bonus)
2nd (Fighter 1): Weapon Focus (Whip) (Fighter 1st Bonus Feat)
3rd (Fighter 2): Whip Mastery (2nd), Improved Disarm (Fighter 2nd Bonus Feat)

From there on I'm picking up Improved Whip Mastery at some point and Combat Reflexes. I went a bit higher on Charisma because it will be a very socially oriented campaign. Why such a high Con in your suggestion? I figured this build would aim to be tripping and retreating while others finished things off.

There are a number of classes which would give you better class skills than fighter and which are not nerfed by losing spellcasting. I'd be inclined to go straight rogue, monk or ninja instead of taking a one level dip into bard.

Do you know anything about the other characters in the party?

I'm the first character to get off the ground thus far, but I've been told to expect a Rogue, Fighter and possibly some sort of Cleric.

I'm thinking Rogue might work out better, though I feel like this build is going to be very Feat hungry.

You need to clarify what denotes a low magic campaign in the DM's eyes. Will you be able to use bardic music to inspire your allies? If not, I would choose another class. I also think 16 CHA may be excessive if there is no spellcasting.

Classes only have access to Cantrips until possibly later in the game.

Without spellcasting, you'd better play a fighter - losing the bard spells is too much of a nerf for a feat and a "free archetype" (?) to compensate. Also, you don't need Agile Maneuvers.

I'm probably just dipping into Bard at level one for the proficiency and the Class Skills. Would Agile Maneuvers not benefit Disarms and Trips?

So, my very first Pathfinder game is scheduled to begin very soon, and I'd like to get my character hammered out. The setting is devoid of almost all magic, which I was not aware of before signing on as a Bard! I've spoken with the GM, and magic users will gain both a free archetype and feat at first level, so I shouldn't be too hindered. The concept for this character is an aristocratic noble who relies mostly on his whip to disarm and trip opponents while his allies finish them off. The campaign will be starting at level 1, 25 point buy, with Human characters.

I figured I would go for the following:

Str: 10, Dex: 18 (Human +2), Con: 10, Int: 13, Wis: 12, Cha: 16

Level 1: Bard (Daredevil Archetype; Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers (Human), ????? (Bonus GM Feat)

Bonus Archetype: ????? (I was thinking Weapon Master)

I know this will be a somewhat lax campaign in terms of Combat, so having a Bard is mostly to access skills that I know will come up a lot. I'll probably dip Fighter for a few levels for some Bonus feats and the higher BAB. Can anyone offer more guidance than this? Thanks in advanced!