Myriana

Kyoni's page

Organized Play Member. 431 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 13 Organized Play characters.




3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hello,

I've been unable to find any PFS "official" Ruling about the Spell "Telekinetic Projectile".

Spell Details:

Quote:
deal 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage to both the target and the object. The type of object thrown doesn't change the damage type or any other properties of the attack, even if you throw a weapon or magic item in this way.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/telekinetic-projectile

Obviously, hurling a weapon with this spell does not change the bludgeoning to slashing/piercing (aka damage types), nor does this apply any magical weapon enchantments. This one is obvious.

Less clear is whether hurling cold-iron/silver/mithral/adamantine objects will bypass resistances of monsters?
-> Reading up various feats/spells that alter "damage type", "type" always seems to refer to slash/pierce/bludgeon only.
Example: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-versatility-combat
-> The spell "Versatile Weapon" (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/versatile-weapon) hints that the material is considered a "physical property of a weapon" (thus a "property of the attack"?)... so one could say that the material of the object is irrelevant and does not bypass any DR the target has.
However in that case it should also mean that the 1d6 damage taken by the hurled object does not take it's material-related hardness into account (adamantine?): the hurled object (but not the target) would take the "full" 1d6 points of damage, even if you are hurling a lump of adamantine? If you ignore the object's material for target damage you'll have to ignore it for "source damage", imho you cannot have the "best" of both worlds (arguably).
This means you could potentially smash adamantine weapons (or magical items) of enemies into pieces? (after disarm of course, I firmly believe this spell should only work on unattended objects)

Not clear at all is what happens when hurling splash weapons?
You are hurling a glass bottle... the fact that it holds chemical liquids is (imho) totally unrelated (but very relevant). As such, the content of the bottle should be treated independently (after all you are required to hit full AC, not just touch AC with this spell) -> when the bottle breaks, the chemial content should do it's own full effect?

If I missed something important on my google-fu while searching for my answers, please do tell me. :-)

PS: I really need a PFS answer, this is important for my PFS Psychic Detective. :-)


Every so often we see people complaining how ability x or y is waaaay too powerful because some PC broke the DMs precious toy (read BBEG) with little/no effort.

Almost every time it's because the BBEG was too stupid to get some henchmen working for him and thus help the BBEG if the PCs pull something unexpected...

Also often these DMs give me the impression that they don't think they challenged their players unless at least one PC goes below 0 HP at least every 2-3 combats. Honestly... if that were me RL: I'd seriously reconsider taking on different jobs/missions because obviously the current ones are suicidal and one day/crit I'm going to _die_.
Adventurers are survivors... not suicidal! They beat impossible odds not run in blindly risking their lives: there is no need for martyrdom, adventurers are heroes, not martyrs.
Now some players don't mind about their PCs dieing, however I usually put a lot of effort into my PC's backgrounds and provide the DM with possible plot-hooks to use (within reason, but then my DMs are usually reasonable folks to begin with). So building a new PC every month or two because the old one died, will have me switch to "cannon-fodder" mentality and thus make my PCs act more I-don't-give-a-damn suicidal tendencies and next to no personality/background/rp-opportunities. I usually am fond of my PCs and don't want them to die! And RL usually people don't want to die, so they act smart... not suicidal.

So why do DMs feel this urge to challenge their player by having them bite dirt again, and again, and again?

Wouldn't it feel more rewarding to have the PCs take care of that huge dangerous whatever by outsmarting it, luring it into a deadly trap without risking their lives, fully knowing that if they would have faced that threat head-on, the dangerous whatever would have wiped the floor with their mangled bodies?

To me it certainly would... so why the single-BBEG-damage-slugfest? why can't that big dangerous brute have a shaman-sidekick and minions? and if the big brute dies too fast, why not have that shaman-sideknick be the EvilGeniusMasterMind behind the entire thing in the first place?

Also it would be interesting to see how much the fighterish people's perceived usefulness changes, if they can actually heroically protect their squishy spellcasters without having to be scraped off the floor by these spellcasters every other fight?

tldr; what do you consider challenging as a PC?
- biting dirt every 2-3 encounter?
- luring that impossible-to-face-head-on danger into a deadly trap, without getting hurt yourself?


16 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I know everybody on this forum agrees that the spell elemental touch is not available with spellstrike, RAW.

But did the devs intended for elemental touch to work with spellstrike or did they not?
(Maybe it's "us" being too picky with grammar, tenses, and such and not enough common sense?)

Because in the end the text is pretty obvious about the touching part and it's only a matter of semantics/tables/headers?

On other forums the arguments for/against are not so clear-cut and I know a few people who (like me) believe spell-text > heading... so the fact that elemental touch provides you with touch attacks means that the intention was for elemental touch to work with spellstrike... so I was hoping to get an answer/faq about this.

Quote:

Elemental Touch

[...]
Range personal
Target you

Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw see text; Spell Resistance no
Upon completing the casting of this spell, elemental energy infuses your hands. Choose an energy type: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. You gain a melee touch attack causing 1d6 points of damage of that energy type, along with a special effect described below. You also deal energy damage and the related special effect when you attack with your hands using an unarmed strike, a single claw, or a single slam attack. This bonus damage can never apply to multiple weapons.
[...]
Quote:
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.[...]

Little side-question: are there any other spells with a similar dilemma?


I'm trying to find out what spells/classes/sources have the possibility to give temporary hit points to other member of your party (not the self-only ones).

I'm trying to find a way to build a "proactive healer" that gives shields/buffs before a fight, instead of healing during/after fights.

(Restoration and similar are also wanted here)

I've seen there are quite a few 3rd party things that give features for temporary hit points, but nothing "purely paizo".
(like False Priest Prestige Class and that Tactical Cavalier Archetype who gets Bardic Performs too)

Is there no way to build a character who can give measurable/meaningful amounts of temporary hitpoints to his allies (more then just ~15 at level 10) with paizo-only books?


I was wondering if this mass of bright minds has some cool tricks and tips to share:
how does your group make sure nobody forgets ongoing buffs, debuffs (for PCs and monsters alike)?

With my online/videocall group, we use a shared google sheet to do the initiative table and we write all active group buffs and debuffs on a column next to initiative.

With my pen&paper group, we haven't found a good way yet, we tried buff-cards that we put in a free place on the battle map, but people either forget or the cards are buried under stuff/food/books, displaced, ...


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Or more specifically, how to handle Weird Words from Sound Striker...

So after sifting through all rules sections that might contain infos on this subject... I'm not sure about RAW any more:

Weird Words is a supernatural ability, a ranged touch attack and it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage.

Now the rules in the combat section talk about ranged attacks with weapons:

Combat:

Ranged Attacks: With a ranged weapon, you can shoot or throw at any target that is within the weapon's maximum range and in line of sight. The maximum range for a thrown weapon is five range increments. For projectile weapons, it is 10 range increments. Some ranged weapons have shorter maximum ranges, as specified in their descriptions.
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)
If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character.
If your target is two size categories larger than the friendly characters it is engaged with, this penalty is reduced to –2. There is no penalty for firing at a creature that is three size categories larger than the friendly characters it is engaged with.

The rules under "Cast a Spell" talk about touch attacks with spells:

Cast a Spell:
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent's AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn.

The section about ranged attacks with weapons says how your attacks get penalties from shooting into melee (-4atk) and cover (+4AC).

The section about touch attacks with spells says how you use your target's touch AC and that your attack can crit on a rolled 20.
_________________________________

Scorching Ray is a spell and a ray, so you get the penalties for shooting into melee and cover (rays are considered weapon-like with regards to Weapon Focus), but you target touch AC and can crit.

Acid Arrow is a spell, but apparently not a ray (so it's not weapon-like?), thus you don't get penalties for shooting into melee and cover, but you still only target touch AC and can crit.

Weird Words is not spell-like, but you might believe it being weapon-like (does bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage), that would mean you get the penalties for shooting into melee and cover, but you target normal AC and cannot crit (as it's supernatural = not spell-like).
Is this correct? This seems very confusing to me... did I miss a rule somewhere?

I believe RAI was all ranged touch attacks (no matter if weapon, spell, supernatural or other) should all get penalties for shooting into melee and cover, but always target touch AC and can crit on a rolled 20.
But that also means all ranged touch attacks should qualify to work with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot (+Imroved) to partially negate the penalty for shooting into melee and cover.


While looking at Words of Power, I realized all these blasty area spells should do great combined with an Arcane Archer's Imbue Arrow ability...?

So I started building around this idea and would like some input from the community. :-)

Race: Azata-Blooded Aasimar (Musetouched)

Starting Class: Sound Striker Magician (Bard) 8 (could replace with Myrmidarch Magus)
Prestige Class: Arcane Archer (obviously)

Sound Striker: because I almost never use inspire competence (when I would need it, I need the sneakiness more) and have never found any useful situation for suggestion yet. And Sound Striker gives me some more blasty stuff.
Magician: I get to add a single arcane spell from another list to my spells known at levels 2,6,10,14,20. This means access to some nice sorcerer word spells: Burning Flash, Fog Bank, Lock Ward, Corrosive Bolt, Lightning Blast+Fire Blast, Acid Wave+Ice Blast. Also free Arcane Bond and counterspelling stuff are always nice.

Both of these word spells are area effects and should work with Imbue Arrow:
- Lightning Blast (3rd lvl word) + Fire Blast (3rd lvl word) = [b]5th[b] lvl word for 10d6 electric damage + 10d6 fire damage when cast at level 20.
- Acid Wave (4th lvl word) + Ice Blast (4th lvl word) = [b]6th[b] lvl word for 10d6 acid damage + 10d6 cold damage and entangled & sickened for 1d4 rounds when cast at level 20
(caster level 20: Bard 12 & Arcane Archer 8 +Magic Knack trait to make up for the 2 lost spellcaster levels)

A possible idea with "Fog Bank" is to take Eldritch Heritage or replace Bard with Sorcerer with the Boreal Bloodline for Snow Shroud (9th lvl): you ignore concealment and Perception penalties in natural or magical snow, ice, fog, and similar weather conditions.
"Cold Steel" (from Boreal lvl 1) gives me the "icy burst" property for my bow, so the only "wasted" feat would be skill focus (survival), if I get this through the Eldritch Heritage feat chain.

Other feats I plan to get:
Point Blank, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike, Weapon Focus, Deadly Aim, Improved Precise Shot


Ok, I promised it a looong time ago...

I managed to do a wee bit and copy&paste into google (which half-failed): Google-Doc

this is just a start and by no means complete

If I managed to set the rights correctly, people should be able to make comments but not straigt-up edit the doc.
Feel free to comment and tell me what I should add or change or improve (except layout ;-) )

please keep in mind this guide is specifically meant for beginners, thus usually low-level games, no "build x can do y later" because of some feat with steep requirements ;-)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tired of your standard healer, tank, nuker, skillmonkey? here's the answer (or at least my attempt at it):

Why those 4 roles?
It's been proven times and again that one cannot master everything. Those so-called Jack-of-all-Trades are reputed to be weak at everything they attempt:
you only get a fixed pool of ressources (feats, skillpoints, ...) and spreading these over various things means you're more likely to fail each time you try (remember that a +1 equals 5% for many things).

So what do these 4 roles cover:
The healer obviously protects the party, while healing hitpoints and ailings is one aspect, boosting the party's abilities is another of his specialties.
The nuker is obviously about big damage against one or many targets.
The tank is good at keeping the targets busy by having them hit him.
The skillmonkey is the one taking care of all those skill needs of a group (face, traps&locks, scouting).

so if we divide those 4 roles into smaller categories, what do we get?

What jobs need to be taken care of?
Skillpoint-related:
- the face (cha), this guy is capable of talking people into everything or out of everything, ideally he has some spell to help "turn heads"
- the scout (wis, darkvision), this guy will rarely miss anything worth noticing and should get all the tools to not be seen
- the mechanic (dex), he knows everything there is to know about traps, locks, devices, and maybe even engineering and architecture: leonardo da vinci
- the library (int), he knows all creatures that roam the lands and anything beyond these lands(planes)... he's a breathing and moving library, who'll devour more knowledge at amazing speed

Feat-related:
- the tactician (crowd control/debuff), this guy will keep targets busy by messing them up, this can be with spells as well as maneuvers
- the tower, this guy is capable of taking it all: fireballs or a balor swinging greatswords, this guy is the tough nut to crack and should be the last man standing
- the enabler (buffer), this guy has various means to make his friends better then usually, this could be though teamwork feats and/or buffing spells and/or class abilities (~bard song, ...)
- the ranged damage guy, great at damage from big distances (more then charge distance) he's the one who can reach flying foes as well as enemy spellcasters protected by a line of defense
- the melee damage guy, can be an AoE whirlwind of destruction or an assassin or a spellcaster (~magus, ...), either way, foes should actively flee from this guy's melee range out of fear
- the medic, of course capable of boosting the party's hit-points he's also taking care of other medical problems like diseases, poisons, curses, ...

(did I miss any?)

While the skillpoint-related jobs can be broken up some more and distributed some other way, the feat related ones are more tricky. Here's some combinations (quick&dirty):

tactician + ranged-dmg = toppling magic missle as well as precise called shots or just some simple fogs and walls of fire/sound/...

tactician + melee-dmg = maneuveur-heavy (strength) or intimidating with Whirlwind Attack makes for somebody who'll have foes fleeing from his deadly reach

medic + tactician = could be a witch as reach spell is available as well as Spectral Hand and clerics don't get the latter, the must-have familiar can be improved to learn the use of wands for even more healing options while the witch cackles the hell out of her misfortunate foes

tower + enabler = can buff his allies' defense (shield other, various bless', ...) and boost their offense as well, an Evangelist could be great for that

(more later...)


Hey,

I am begging for good advice from you all, since some of my group voice concern about my way of building characters.

My friends usually go for "standard builds" that have proven themselves, they also try to persuade me to stay single-class, but that's not my style.
I think cookie-cutter is boring :o), so I usually come up with a crazy idea (like my Bountyhunter specializing in Spellcasters) and then try to mix and match whatever seems best to be good at that: classes, feats, spells.

Current Party (Jade Regent):
- 1 Barbarian (good Offense, average Defense)
- 1 Cleric (specialized in Healing/Repairing and Quaterstaves, good Defense)
- 1 Sorcerer (not sure what his focus is)
- me
(we are trying to get 1 more to join, but we have issues with play-times)

I am a level 2 Inquisitor and intend to take Arcane Duelist (Bard) next.
(Magus was not an option when I rolled stats and now my int is too low to change).
Race: Halfling (I like small and my Domain makes up for lost speed)
God: Desna, Domain: Travel, Weapon: Starknife
My end build would look like this:
Inquisitor 6 + Arcane Duelist 14

Class Stuff:

Dmn: nimble footed (Ign.terrain 3+Wis rounds)
Intuitive initiative
Tracking
Detect Alignment
Teamwork: Precise Strike
Bane Weapon
Detect Lies
Teamwork feat (chooseable)
-------------
Arcane Strike (Magical Knack should increase this to a total +4, if I add Judgement +Damage that's a total +6, they do stack, right?)
Combat Casting
Distracting
Spellbreaking
Penetrating Strike

Feats:

Traits - Birthmark/Student Survivalist
1 - Weapon Finesse
3 - Add. Trait: Magical Knack(inqui)/Magical Knack(bard)
5 - Combat Reflexes
7 - Improved Arcane Bond
9 - Step Up
11 - Following Step
13 - Dimensional Agility
15 - Dimensional Assault
17 - Step Up and Strike
19 - Teleport Tactician

Improved Arcane Bond is kinda mandatory, because it gives me SR and increases my already good saves (that SR and saves are good... right?).

I'm not sure if I should switch out some feats? But these sound good for an anti-caster build?

My biggest problem is my spell list however:
(Not taken in that order)
Spells with "-" will be replaced as soon as I get better alternative through class features or higher spells.

Inqui:

Acid Splash
Create Water
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Stabilize
Read Magic

-Forced Quiet (had to get this because of our Barbarian stomping and clanging and ruining my scouting efforts ^^)
-Returning Weapon
Litany of Sloth
Deadeye's Lore
Wrath
Protection from Evil

Bloodhound
Howling Agony
Spiritual Weapon
Silence

Bard:

Detect Magic
Dancing Lights
Mending
Prestidigitation
Mage Hand
Ghost Sound

Grease
Undetectable Alignment
Feather Fall
Restful Sleep
Touch Of Gracelessness
Vanish

Versatile Weapon (to make up for specialized weapon)
Allegro (does this work with Bladethirst?)
Glitterdust
Alter Self
Blurr
Mirror Image
Blood Biography
Steal Voice
(Too many spells here, but I can't make up my mind, maybe drop 1 feat for Expanded Arcana?)

-Dispel Magic
Terrible Remorse
Exquisite Accompaniment
Good Hope
Phantom Steed
Slow

Dimension Door
Freedom of Movement
Shadow Walk/Dance of a Hundred Cuts
Echolocation

Cloak Of Dreams
Unwilling Shield
Dispel Magic, Greater

The idea for spell selection are:
- increase tracking/locating/gain information
- anti-spellcaster (no save, fortitude save, reflex save, ...)
- selfbuffs (I'm not that much into group buffing, I'd rather disable foes)

To sum up my questions:
- when should I level what class? (progression)
- should I change some feats?
- pleeeeeaaaase give me some advice for my spell list :-)

I don't know what is required for Jade Regent, and to be honest I'd rather not know to not spoiler anything.

thank you for any input, advice and help in advance :-)


Are ranged characters that much harder to pull off to be effective? Or do most people prefer to go toe to toe with their opponents?

For the last few AP, our group has had a serious "melee space" problem, because too many were trying to be in melee with enemies, making improved initiative mandatory if you want a shot at swinging your weapon. :-/

Our only ranged person usually was the party wizard or sorcerer and these always had some funky ideas about whacking people in melee when not using spells... is ranged combat that ugly? Why do arcane casters have to squeeze in with fighters, clerics and rogues for that little melee space?
Clerics have to be besides the fighters, since their healing spells usually require touching. Rogues often rely on flanking which is hard enough to get in small and tiny corridors of dungeons.

I've tried to convince some to get weapons with reach (I tend to pick spiked chain when it's fitting, but right now I'm stuck with my deity's weapon...).
Also most nice weapons with reach require a feat to learn (exotic), and most people don't want that.

I must admit, I usually play a melee character, because I tend to be the scout/sneaky guy for the party. Imho somebody who is leading the party through woods/hills/etc should be able to do decently in close combat, which ranged guys usually don't. Standing in the front row seems rather unhealthy, if not silly, for a ranged guy.

I feel it's because most stuff requires you to be close-up?
It could be the feats that are mandatory for any ranged build to work decently?
Even our clerics gravitate towards their diety's weapon and those are rarely ranged.
Also it seems like many nice classes only really work with melee stuff. Are only wizards/sorcerers/arcane 9th level prgression classes worth considering for ranged combat, and mainly through spells only? And those usually don't do too well with archery because of low BAB.

Why is it so hard to come up with a decent concept&background for a ranged guy?
Is our group just lacking ideas? Is ranged combat bland and not appealing enough (rules-wise)?

Healing = touch
Tank = obvious
Scout = walking in front, flanking, sneaking
Nuker = low BAB: spells only, then thumb-twiddling

I'm almost tempted to try and make a cleric with the "reach spell" feat, to do ranged touch healing... or maybe I'll have to give Witch a shot (spectral hand ^^), but I hate preparing spells and I hate familiars even more. :-(

Does anybody have any cool ideas for ranged character concepts that we (my group) could use?