Kosmo Beenrak's page

So I have been playing around with making a jump-based monk that uses Crane Stance, Dancing Leaf, and Powerful Leap but how these all get combined are tricking me up a bit.

Crane Stance reduces the DC of High/Long jump by 5, and allows you to move an additional 5ft horizontally or 2ft vertically when you leap.

Dancing Leaf increases the distance you jump by 5 feet when you leap, or succeed at a high/long jump.

Powerful Leap increases your base vertical leap to 5, and increases the distance you can leap horizontally by 5 feet.

So, if I understand this correctly:

Crane Stance
Reduces DCs of High/Long jump but does not increase their distance
If taking the raw leap action, gives you either +5ft horizontal (if leaping horizontally) or +2ft vertical (if jumping vertically)

Powerful Leap
Increases basic vertical leaping from 3 to 5, but does not affect high jump
Always increases the horizontal distance of your leap by 5 (regardless of if you are doing a horizontal/vertical leap or high/long jump)

Dancing Leaf
For all three types of leaps, increases the distance of your leap by 5ft. What does this increase apply to though?

If I am doing a horizontal leap that's easy, just add 5. But what if I am doing a vertical leap which by default is 3 feet vertical and 5 feet horizontal? Does it just add to the horizontal? Just to vertical? Do I pick which one? Does it apply to both?

In the best case scenario, Dancing Leaf applies its 5ft in all cases which, at its peak, would allow the following:

Horizontal Leap: 10/15Base + 5(Crane) +5(Dancing) +5(Powerful) = 25/30ft

Vertical Leap:
-------Vertical: 5(Base with Powerful) + 2(Crane) + 5(Dancing) = 12ft
--Horizontal: 5(Base) + 5(Dancing) + 5(Powerful) = 15ft Horizontal

Thoughts?

So I have been looking through the rules trying to figure out what feats (and rules) apply and do not apply to thrown weapons -- and it is seemingly very complex and perhaps contradictory?

Note: I am using the online SRD as evidence of my findings here, but this information is mimicked in the core rulebook as well.

The first question I encountered was: Are thrown melee weapons (e.g., the Hatchet) ranged weapons? If they are, that would mean that feats that list 'wielding a ranged weapon' apply to thrown weapons (e.g., Point-Blank Shot)

Based on the rules, I believe that thrown melee weapons do not count as ranged weapons. Under Equipment/Weapons, there are two clear sections labeled: Melee Weapons and Ranged Weapons. Javelins are listed as a Range weapon in this context, but a Hatchet is not. A Hatchet is a melee weapon that can be thrown. This seems to be backed up by the description of the Thrown weapon trait which explicitly differentiates melee weapons with the thrown trait and ranged weapons with the thrown trait.

OK -- so if a Hatchet is a melee weapon, then Point-Blank Shot does not apply. Does this mean however that I can throw a hatchet as part of a strike that says I must use a melee weapon? Double Slice says that you must be wielding two melee weapons and it allows you to make a strike with both weapons at the same target. It does not say that you must make melee strikes (e.g., Power Attack). Strike is designed to be ambiguous, stating that you can make melee or ranged attacks as part of a strike. Based on the wording, it would seem that you could throw two Hatchets as part of a double slice attack.

HOWEVER.... if you look at the Barbarian class ability Rage and the level 1 Barbarian feat Raging Thrower things get even messier. Rage says that you deal 2 additional damage with melee weapons (of which the Hatchet is), but Raging Thrower says that your rage bonus applies to thrown weapon attacks (of which, the Hatchet is capable of performing). Having an entire level 1 feat in order to gain your Rage bonus for thrown weapons seems to strongly indicate that thrown weapons (when thrown) are not considered melee weapons.

This leaves us in a weird place in that thrown weapons are not considered melee or ranged when throwing. I am a bit at a loss here... Weapon throwing has always been a favorite area of mine and trying to work out which rules actually apply is quite difficult. Does anyone have any insight?