Thanks, Derklord, that should do the trick.
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I don't suppose there's a resource I can print out that has all the stat blocks for the creatures that can be summoned with summon monster? There's a lot of them and it takes forever to figure out what I want to conjure for a situation. Thanks!
I'm pretty sure I'm good on the wands front, but I still want to know how pookas fly in their normal form. They aren't described as having wings and they're basically half rabbit half humanoid.
So how do pookas fly? Just rando magical ability?
Also, can you point me to the rules that say familiars and wizards can use each other's skills (i.e. UMD)? Thanks.
I'm going to talk to my GM, but I think he'll be fine with the pooka. How does she fly, though? Just magically? At first I thought it implied that her flight stats were attributed to the Raven form, but comparing stats, she flies way better than a raven.
The weird thing is that pseudo dragons have draconic listed as a language, so it seems like they are capable of speech, just prefer not to use it (and would instead default to telepathy). Or so it seems. Another weird thing is that the FAQ lists sprites as being able to UMD, but they're diminutive in size. Imagine it trying to weird a wand three size categories too large. But a pooka one size larger that can swing a dagger is a no go?
If it matters, we're not playing official society rules, which sounds more limiting than just going by the books.
So wait, not a single familiar can use them? Not even the faerie dragon? I thought they at least had the green light.
I've read a ton of threads on the subject and am no closer to a clear answer. I'm especially interested in the pseudo dragon and the pooka (my alignment is neutral and mephits don't work so well with the concept). What's the official word? Thanks.
I was tempted by Spite, but I figure I already have enough "oh crap" spells as a wizard. I see there's also elemental swarm, post midnight, and storm of vengeance as options. I think elemental swarm might be the most tempting being that I'm also a conjurer. So, at this point I'm settled on CLW, Ill omen, vomit swarm. I think I -might- leave Heal for the Oracle. I'm strongly leaning towards elemental swarm. I still have two picks to go (and I'm definitely doing the witch list as it works with the concept).
That would have totally sold me on Heal. And another thing I'm wondering is if threefold aspect is actually worth it. The bonus is an enhancement bonus so it won't stack with int boosting items, right? I figure that would make it obsolete quick enough.
Also, my charisma is decent and I'll have the talky skills, so I might get some mileage out of karmic blessing, but I'm still working out this last pick.
So, I've settled on the witch list, mostly for concept reasons. My picks so far are CLW, ill omen, threefold aspect, and vomit swarm. I'm probably also going to take Heal, but I think the Oracle will grab that so I might give it a pass. I have one pick left though and am undecided.
If it helps, I'm playing a samsaran with mystic past life and will likely choose the witch list. I was thinking of taking augry for funsies. Maybe there's other div spells there that a wiz can't access otherwise? Also, what about oppositions to go with a witchy fortune teller theme? My conjuror was going to go with necromancy and evocation, but I think necromancy would add to the theme.
I know the special ability is super, but I'm seeing the spells being generally super situational or having little benefit over casting from a scroll. The diviner works (probably a little better than a conjurer) with a concept I have in mind, but if I'm not getting decent mileage out of the extra spell per level, that's going to bug me.
I'm just curious as to what one would pick for their bonus spell per level (has to be divination, right?). I'm considering changing the conjurer building into one, but I'm looking through the list and not seeing a whole lot that I would want to memorize (as opposed to just cast from a scroll).
All really good ideas so far. I never even thought of going into the summoner list which makes sense with me being a conjurer. I don't suppose anyone has made a list of arcane spells wizards -don't- get. It's hard to see what's even available without cross referencing every spell. Btw, how does barkskin help with crafting. You mean adding it to armor? I am building this character to be a little crafty, but I was figuring I could get another caster to cast spells I don't have for this. Anyway, I'm still looking for more opinions. I was leaning towards the witch list before, but you have me thinking about the summoner, too, now.
We already have a bard and I don't want to steal her thunder. I'm building this character to be more of a controller than buffer. Also, like I said, I won't cheese it for early access to spells already on my list. I'll take a look at heal, though, and am still looking for more suggestions.
I'm thinking of flipping the script on my witch and going wizard (teleportation specialty) with mystic past life. However, they already have almost everything arcane on their list. What would be good picks? So far, ill omen, threefold aspect, and vomit swarm have caught my eye. CLW could be especially handy with my party's dynamic. One thing I won't do is cheese and take other class spells already on my list but at earlier levels. Even if my DM would allow it (I doubt it), I wouldn't want to do that anyway. So, what would you recommend for picks? Thanks.
I know this might depends on the patron spirit. I haven't decided yet. I'm still trying to figure out which fits the concept better. Anyway, I'm planning on having a solid four picks. What are some of the the must-have arcane spells to which witches don't have access?
Tumor Familiar is for alchemists and I'm building a witch. I'd like to keep it easy. I just want to keep my familiar safe. I read about a satchel item that technically protects it, but the tattoo thing fits the concept a little better.
Any way to do it as a pure witch?
What I'd like to do is basically have my familiar be able to "merge" with my body and become like a tattoo at will. In this case it couldn't be targeted directly or anything, but if I die, it would die. Short of a wish spell, how could one make this happen?
Some of the spells mentioned aren't in the materials we are using. All I have is what's in the Masterwork Android app. With the Oracle, I'm seeing a lot of will save spells and a lot of spells that pretty much boil down to +/- x to saves and combat. The witch seems to have more creative options, and I could use the few wizard picks I get from being samsaran to get those especially awesome arcane spells of which a witch doesn't have access normally. I'm fine with being poor with buffs and defense. Her concept is more geared towards the idea that reality isn't really real, though with a more darker metaphysical bent than illusionist one.
What about a Witch? I've only started reading about them, but they seem like 80% arcane and 20% divine. Would this class make for a more viable controller than a divine caster?
What about regular Oracle spells? I've been going through the list and they are pretty crappy for control (at least compared to a sorcerer). I'm really tempted to respec this character as a sorc, though I'd have to find a way for it to fit the concept.
That makes sense. You're already getting an extra spell known per level from the favored class. But still, even if it counts as a pick, that's fine. I still want to know what's worth taking for a controller.
I could see summoning being handy, but I'm not sure how well that works with an Oracle that has to make spell picks. Lower level summonings become obsolete pretty quickly I would think. Sure, you can swap out every few levels, but there's a lot of summoning spells to choose from.
And what would you say are must have feats for this build?
Both. From what I understand of the samsaran's racial ability, I can grab a number of divine (as a Oracle) spells equal to 1 + my spellcasting modifier even if I can't cast them yet. But I don't want to just pick a bunch of level 9 spells that I won't see forever. I want to augment my control abilities as best as I can with these picks.
I don't have any of those spells except sanctuary. Because he's samsaran, he gets to choose a number of bonus divine spells from any class (I'm thinking druid must have some good control spells). Any suggestions?
It might help if I elaborate more on the concept. As long as I can stay true to the concept and fulfill my role in the party, I'm pretty open. Basically, my character believes that all of reality (his world, the other planes, everything) is an illusion. What dictates reality is some unknown force outside of the universe. While an Aasimar/Heavens mystery might be able to ring this bell, Dark Tapestry gives this philosophy a much darker tone, which is what I'm going for. The idea that we don't really exist should be a little jarring. I figured an oracle, more so than a sorceror, fit the bill for this. The only bloodline that the sorceror has that might work would be Dreamspun or -maybe- destined, but dark tapestry fits so much better. Even the idea of a mystery fits much better than the idea of a bloodline. I'm leaning towards a samsaran because their reincarnation element helps The idea is that in between lives, my character spent time in a limbo (not to be confused with the Plane of Limbo) where he somehow became aware that reality, as he knew it, was merely the extension of the will of extra-universal beings. His understanding now is that everything is an illusion. For example, should he cast a cure light wounds spell, he's not �healing� wounds, just helping others realized the wounds never really existed to begin with. To clarify, illusion spells are not particularly special to him. They are just illusions within an illusion. That being said, I want this character to be a straight up field controller. I'm not even worried much about healing after my last convo with the DM. As much as the Oracle fits the theme, I looked through the first few levels of spells and I see a lot of buffs, a lot of contextual spells, but not much for control. Also, the DM reports that teamwork isn't the greatest with this group, so I'd like to make sure I can protect myself. I don't necessarily mean be able to take on mobs single-handedly, being able to effectively escape is just as valuable here.
I'm very much not a fan of doing spell prep every day and the whole fire and forget magic system. If I'm playing a spellcaster, I'm doing either a sorc or Oracle and a divine theme works better with this concept. I think a character stronger at disabling (vs. buffing) with a talent for shadows/illusions would fit the concept better and just be more fun, anyway. He'll also probably take that prophet background so I can try and convert NPCs and whatnot over to my faith. I figure I'll also get a ton of extra spell picks being samsaran (extra spell picks of any divine) and with the Oracle favored class (one extra pick a level). I think I'm technically starting at level 3, but we'll be level 4 by the end of my next session. I don't know why they don't just do the CLW wand thing. Based on what they've been telling me, their resources are stretched pretty thin just trying to stay alive.
I should mention, if it matters, we're allowed to use anything in the Masterwork Tools Pathfinder Open Reference android app.
I have a concept for a character for a group I was just invited to join, but I don't know much about Pathfinder and could use some help fleshing it out (i.e. spell picks, feats, etc.). The party wants more healing but not necessarily a heal-bot. Aside from that, I want to build this character to be a controller. I've read that the heaven mystery is better for this, but dark tapestry fits the concept better. This character won't multi class and will start at about level 4. Is there anything else you need to know to advise? Thanks.
Builds run out of feats, characters don't. I agree. I liked the idea of playing a build that's effective, but doesn't need all the feats so I can throw some character into build, as opposed to just rp. I see a lot for Iron Will, and that's going to be my L9 pick, but I have another at L11 to plan for. I'm still considering the following: Combat Reflexes
At that point, I might just go with something random, for character's sake, though.
At 11th, clustered shots in the no-brainier, since you're definitely now fighting things with DR. Pretty much all the time! Miss the bit in the title that said CRB-only? It's not in the CRB, so I can't have Clustered or Snap Shot. Snap shot looks good on paper, but if you're an archer anywhere near the enemy, you're doing it wrong. You should really never be in melee range with enemies. Not necessarily. We just played this module where there were a lot of tight spaces. Sometimes it can't be avoided.
Actually, I think a gauntlet is a no-go: "This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack." So, unless you have IUS, you're not threatening anyone with a gauntlet. Your DM might hand-wave it (no pun intended), but it's not RAW. I'm fairly certain I'm going for Iron Will at level 9. I'm sure my WWill saves could use some catching up at that point. For level 11, though, I'm still tossed between a lot of options: Combat Reflexes
I think CR and GF are the strongest contenders here. If he was TWF and not archery, CR would totally pull out ahead. But, as is, it's a real tough call. Side note, is there any way to avoid an AoO while using a bow in melee?
Pinpoint Targeting is one of those things for when you're fighting something you just can't hit--which, with Precise Shot and IPS, should be just about never. That's how I took it, but I don't see shot on the run helping much either. I don't see myself worrying about cover too much as I have a few melee fighters in my party to hold the line.
That's how I read it, too. Iron Will, Toughness, Great Fortitude all spring to mind. Don't ignore your defenses. Worst thing that can happen to a weak will base class with huge damage is to get dominated and rip up your party. That's why I was thinking Iron Will at level 9. Around then, the strong will classes will really be pulling out ahead of me. I wonder if Greater Iron Will is worth it though. It's only a once a day reroll, which basically equates to a +3 bonus only once a day, whereas regular Iron Will is a +2 bonus all the time. I wish I could just take Iron Will twice. As for level 10, is Pinpoint the way to go?
In any event, I have to take one of the combat style feats at level 10. My My only options at this point are Far Shot, Pinpoint, or Shot on the Run. I'm guessing Pinpoint is the better option? Though, none of them seem like anything to write home about. I'm thinking Iron Will for level 9, and Improved Crit or Combat Reflexes for 11. I'm not sure about the level 11 pick, but it's so close to the end of his career, I wonder how much it really matters anyway.
Imp. precise shot eliminates all cover penalties, so it is inclusive of precise shot. I'm not arguing with the logic, and I'll bring it up with the GM, but I don't see anything that states the penalty for firing into a melee is a cover penalty, whereas the cover section only discusses walls as cover examples.
Good point.
Honesty, I wouldn't take precise shot as a ranger. I would just wait for 6th to get imp. precise shot and take something else with that feat slot. Is the -4 penalty for shooting into a melee considered a bonus for cover? It stands to reason, but RAW make it clear that it's two separate things. In fact, actually, it would seem that I should take both a -4 penalty for shooting into a melee, and my target would get +4 AC if an ally is in the line of sight for the shot. I never really thought of skipping it, but if Improved Precise shot covers it, I could see why it would be worth skipping. Actually, I checked the srd on firing into a melee and saw this: "If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character." I assume they mean the nearest friendly from the target and this is addressing situations where the target has reach? Honestly, combat reflexes still isn't a bad feat if you are wearing armor with gauntlets. Why armor with gauntlets? Though, I'll only be wearing a chain shirt, max, anyway. Combat reflexes crossed my mind, but do you think an archer would really get a lot of use out of it? Also, what would I do with extend spell? I'll have hardly any spellcasting, even at level 12. Improved initiative is a good idea. Even with the high dex, I can see locking in the top spot as valuable.
I'm bringing in an archer to a PFS/CRB-only game, and I'm planning out my build. This is what I have so far: Kaz
Skills:
I have one too many skills, so Climb is just going to be boosted with favored class level up points. 1 Point Blank, Favored Enemy (Undead)
I know a human would be more powerful (extra feat and skill points), but I have a character concept in mind involving his Orc heritage. As you can see, I'm running out of feats to take by level 9. Does what I have complete an archer build (so I should just take other concept-related feats)? Or did I miss something? Thanks.
If this is a group running out of a store, I have to wonder why they're not just going full blown PFS. I don't know. I think part of it is that they don't have to time to do the official 4-hour sessions (this game only goes 2-3), and I think they just don't like some of the limitations so they hand-wave them away. I might be misunderstanding them on buying scrolls though. I was under the impression that, unless it's mundane, you have to wait for a drop. But obviously, you like higher level play and item crafting enough that PFS doesn't appeal to you. I like low-level play, as long as it eventually builds to something. This character I built was eventually going to go loremaster, but with PFS, you barely get half the loremaster levels (and all the cool stuff that makes the PrC worth it) before it's time to retire.
...they're there to keep things fair in an organized play environment. Remember, the entire purpose of PFS is to be able to get together with random groups of people in public environments like game stores and conventions and play with fair rules. I find it ironic that Paizo has to take an axe to their own game in the interest of fair play. And, is it fair? A bunch of builds get nerfed, while others can capitalize off the level cap and find new ways to pull out ahead. It doesn't really level the playing field, just tilts it in another direction. The losing party treasure and just getting the cash for it thing just makes it fair for splitting treasure in an organized play campaign. I understand the rationale for it, but it totally blows the verisimilitude and immersion of an RPG. Though that probably is already blown in a venue where random characters are walking in and out every week. But it turns the game into d20 Diablo. And, if PFS is trying to control for abuse, this is one thing that gets totally abused from what I've seen. Adventure ends, there was one CLW wand found over the course of the adventure. Everyone buys a wand from the chronicle sheet, then gives it to the cleric. Not only could they use during the adventure the one wand that they found, they get four fresh wands for the next gig. So it has its advantages and disadvantages, but as much as I like it, I wouldn't run a home campaign based on it while not actually being part of PFS, if I had a stable group of players who always shows up. If you can actually get all the same people to show up weekly, why not run an actual home campaign instead? That's a good point. I've never had a situation where I've wanted to game and there wasn't a group of friends available to do so regularly. These GMs are running this out of the FLGS, and while half the group regularly shows (and also runs a separate home game every other week), the other half are random drop ins. As for conjuration at these levels, I'd say a conjurer wizard will probably start to get good around level 5. I actually play a conjuring focused sorcerer in PFS, and I'm at level 7 now. You kind of have to go the sorcerer route. You can't even depend on getting scrolls to flesh out a spellbook every level, so you only get your meager 2 level up picks. Between creation and the cap, that's 30 spells known. Granted it's 10 more than the sorcerer, but you still have to prep. Obviously, you'll find some stuff along the way, but it's not necessarily going to be what you would want for your build. In fact, odds are, it won't be. Without scribe scroll, PFS kills controller wizards. I considered doing a sorcerer at first (before knowing PFS rules), but being able to build up a stash of scrolls of anything in my spellbook on hand means I could eventually cast all the situational spells that weren't worth daily memorizing. With the sorcerer, I'd have to scrap all that and just pick a more limited, but often generally effective, set of combos. Still, if it takes 5 levels for a character to even be serviceable, and the game only goes to 12, I'd rather play something that's fun the whole way through.
If you don't want to talk about things don't bring it up. I actually said, "I mean, if I'm wrong, I'm fine with that. I'd love to see a concrete rebuttal." Getting offended because I'm not a fan of PFS isn't a rebuttal. I'm not even sure it's germane to the conversation. How am I being rude and insulting? I quote you directly and responded with concrete points. What you had previously (vaguely) said was that there was this thing that someone wrote a long time ago that proved bards let the party handle higher CR encounters. So sue me for wanting to get to the bottom of it. If you could actually find this thing that someone wrote, I would love to read it. Low level access to haste and inspire courage are not weak. The bard is the best force multiplier in the game. I don't understand. A bard gets access to haste at CL 7. The wizard gets it at CL 5. And, the wizard can just scribe a bunch of scrolls of it (without taking an extra feat) to cast it a ton more than the bard. Well, at least he could if PFS didn't kibosh item crafting. And, I never said inspire courage was weak. I actually said it was the best thing going for the bard. It has the very specific effect of helping to boost the rest party's damage output. Inspire courage is great. Is it going to do more for the party all around than what a conjurer can throw into the mix (after a few levels to get the ball rolling, obviously)? I don't see how it's possible. I wonder, does the extra damage (in a balanced party of four other PCs) from lower levels of inspire courage even trump the damage that an archer is going to be able to put in the mix? I'm estimating not. I'm not hating the bard. Really. My most favorite character ever was a gnome bard with a delusion where he thought he was a great artificer (he had craft wondrous items and would really talk up his simple creations). He could potentially be a halfway serviceable controller with how he used illusion spells, but it was a little dicey, illusion being what it is. His performance (oratory) was actually rather dull (yet enthralling) stories about the most mundane things. He was balls to the wall fun, that's for sure. But, to be honest, when the crap hit the fan, he was kind of dead weight. However, this was an easy-going homebrew game with a pretty robust social element, not a pregen published dungeon-crawly module. Something like what we're playing now would eat that character alive.
I think I'm looking at it pretty objectively. I don't have a hate-on for bards. In fact, I tend to prefer characters/classes with some style. In PFS, a bard misses out on about 1/3 of them due to the level cap. Inspire courage is probably the best thing it has going for it, but it's only a +1 to +2 bonus for most of your shelf life.
I call shenanigans. I can see someone making an out-of-combat case for bards, but they're mediocre at archery and spellcasting compared to other classes (except the ranger or paladin). Most of the spells they do have are mind-affecting enchantments (weakest school). They have the songs, but the best one (for combat) only increases accuracy by 5-10% and damage output by not much more than that (if you account for both the direct damage bonus and indirect bonus from better accuracy) before the PFS cap. Sure, they also have UMD, but it takes a few levels or so before you can really count on it. Aside from cure wands and a few other miscellaneous useful cleric trinkets, there's nothing they can do with UMD that a wizard can't do without it. I mean, if I'm wrong, I'm fine with that. I'd love to see a concrete rebuttal. However, they are very much not to everyone's play style. Many people simply don't want the 'assist cred' they want to be the one doing things to the bad guys. I'm fine with the assist cred. I'd rather be a controller than striker or tank. The conjurer I was building had almost no direct damage (aside from his acid dart SLA, which never hit anyway :P). In fact, not only was evo and necro his opposed schools, he was avoiding the spells entirely. It was all summons, buffs, debuffs, and other field controls. But, spellcasters don't really even start making a splash until after a few levels or so, and by the time they come into their own, the game is over by PFS rules. Who came up with this level 12 crap anyway? But, I don't see how anyone can say a bard is a better controller than a conjurer (or summoner for that matter). Is your GM GMing PFS officially or is he just using PFS guidelines and then restricting them further? I honestly don't know. I just got involved with this group a week ago, but I think they're actually flying fast and loose because they aren't part of the official PFS whatever. But, I've mostly read the PFS rules since and I'm not sure it all adds up. The restrictions that are really nagging at me are: 1) No item creation.
I would be surprised if it was the DMs throwing further restrictions into the mix. I believe this is their first foray into PFS. I haven't known them long, but they are pretty easy going people. From what I've heard, the reason why they are trying to wrap this up (aside from the move) is because they're not digging PFS and are thinking of switching to D&D 5e (or whatever they're calling it). The GM that is probably taking over in October said that if he does, he's going to toss PFS. So, in short, I just need to survive until October. At that point, we're probably starting something from scratch, non-PFS PF or otherwise.
PFS really doesn't limit things very much. Certainly not enough that I would ever describe it as a strangle hold. Lacking item creation just means you buy things. First, item creation is a huge money saver, especially when one's build depends on it. Additionally, there are tons of things that are off limits because they aren't on "the list" that are rather important to this build. Things I could easily make myself if item creation (or even just scribe scroll) was allowed. The whole Chronicle sheet thing is just crap for so many reasons. There's someone who might be taking over running PF when the current DMs leave (they are planning to move in October). The prospective DM has already decided to chuck the PFS. Back on point, consider a conjurer/loremaster as well. First, I have to take spell focus in place of item creation, which is a bit of a waste as most of my spells have no saves. On top of that, PFS play stops at level 12. I can't even take loremaster levels before level 8, so I don't even have a chance as the better secrets. I'm not saying the build isn't serviceable, but it really gets cut off at the knees here. I would totally want to use it for a home game, but PFS really changes things. I wanted to give the bard a chance, but considering this game is likely to end by level 8, nevermind the level 12 cap, I'd only have access to a small handful of spells, and probably third level max. On top of that, I wasn't terribly impressed by the spell list. Aside from first level (which is full of contextual spells and very few good general use spells), they are mostly just "kinda nice little buffs" to have around considering the level you get them. The bard would effectively be a second string lucky rabbit's foot for the party. I figure the ranger not only has a substandard spell list of his own, but he can still pull his own weight when he runs out of his handful of spells. I don't think some of the others realized it at first but if you give some one time to summon a bunch of anything it can become pretty potent or at least a severe distraction. I agree. I think summmoning is great. It's why conjuration is my favorite school. I'd give a summoner a whirl if it was an option in this game. Every hit a summon takes is often at least one less CLW the cleric has to deal out. And, if they get in a little damage as well, that's a bonus. |