Kitusser's page

I mostly agree with you.

To the people arguing that it isn't taking away caster items most of the time. It actually is, because the caster gold is reduced to compensate for the free fundamental runes, so even in the best case scenario it's still flawed.

Fundamental runes on weapons are just comparatively less useful on a caster than a martial, and casters would rather be spending that gold on other items most of the time anyway.

I'm of the mind that ABP should be the default. I don't see a good argument for having gold taxes for specific items exist for the game to be playable. It's just not interesting, I see no reason for it. You can easily create interesting magic items that aren't mandatory math boosts. The mandatory math boosts just feel like a sacred cow that just makes the game worse.

This Hybrid Study seems pretty good overall, but I'm confused as to why the Conflux Spell has the Manipulate trait, and partly with its 4th level feat.

During Arcane Cascade, this Hybrid Study ignores reactions when it uses Fly, Leap, High Jump, or Long Jump. This should synergise with the Conflux Spell which allows you to Fly up to your speed and make a Strike, but the spell has the manipulate trait which seems like anti-synergy. Usually when you Spellstrike, you're ending your turn next to an enemy, meaning that you're likely going to trigger a reaction by casting it, making that part of the Arcane Cascade Stance worthless. Usually you can avoid triggering the reactions from enemies who you aren't right next to, especially when you aren't flying.

Secondly, it's 4th level Feat allows you to take a reaction to Leap, High Jump, or Long Jump immediately after hitting a target with a Spellstrike. The movement doesn't trigger reactions from the target. The issue here is that (at least at low to mid levels when enemies usually only have one reaction for Reactive Strike) you've already triggered their reaction with your Spellstrike which makes that whole part of the feat pointless.

Not to say that this Hybrid Study is bad, far from it, it is arguably better than Laughing Shadow. They have incredible mobility through their Conflux Spell and that 4th level feat.

Overall, while the Hybrid Study is great, it seems to have some anti-synergy within it's kit due to the Manipulate trait on both Spellstrike and it's Conflux Spell.

Kitusser wrote:

Whispers of Weakness is limited in scope, and it progresses your curse. The two Mysteries that get it for free have the worst curse to progress.

Tap into Blood, if allowed to use the Specific Lore is easily a similar in power due to the scope of the ability. It also does in fact encroach on intelligence classes like the Wizard who notably do not have an easy way to do something similar.

It is most definitely not the "new standard" when it is still an exception.

Do you think the intention of this ability is to allow you to use specific Lore on every RK skillcheck? Mind you, not even Thaumaturge is getting the specific Lore DC here, and people have been arguing that Diverse Lore is too powerful for a while now.

I think RAW there is nothing stopping you from getting the lower DC, for either tap into blood or Diverse Lore, so long as it's for Recall Knowledge of course.

Keep in mind, Recall Knowledge is an Untrained skill action for the skills that have it as an action (Crafting, Lores, etc.). As a player, you can, if you want, when encountering a Zombie, use Zombie Lore to recall knowledge on it. But if you're actually Untrained, that's obviously a terrible idea.

A Sorcerer could use Tap into Blood and say "I will attempt a Zombie Lore check to Recall Knowledge, replacing it with Arcana." and that is perfectly by the rules.

Similarly, if a Thaumaturge with Diverse Lore encounters something like a weird statue depicting Sarenrae in strange ways, they could go "Alright I will use Recall Knowledge with Sarenrae Lore, replacing it with Esoteric Lore at -2 thanks to Diverse Lore".

A Bard could do the same if they had Bardic Lore, a Loremaster with Loremaster Lore, a Dandy with Gossip Lore, etc.

The only way you can prevent this is ruling Recall Knowledge to be a Trained or higher action in that Specific Lore, which is also supported by the rules, it's just not baseline.

I disagree that the Lore skills like Bardic Lore and Esoteric Lore can be specific, when they are very clearly general Lore skills. I don't know where you are getting that reading.

Perhaps Tap into Blood works RAW, but I doubt the intention is for it to work the way it is written.

Kitusser wrote:

This is not a good faith reading of this feature. It says "Attempt to Recall Knowledge; you can use Arcana instead of the skill normally needed for that subject." You're making an Arcana check, not a Lore check.

Insinuating that I do not read in good faith what is literally written in the ability is nonsensical rhetoric.

Yes, you're making an Arcana check, but you use Arcana instead of the other skill, and the other skill - which happens to be a specific Lore skill - has a low DC. Thus you make an Arcana check on a low DC.

It's impossible to use Arcana as a reference to set the DC to Recall Knowledge on (say) a fungus creature, because Arcana cannot be used to identify fungal creatures. Nature or Fungus Lore can identify fungal creatures, so we use Arcana instead of one of those skills, and the skill we choose to use Recall Knowledge with is the one that sets the DC.

It is not good faith because it is "too good to be true". It is clearly outside the intention of this ability. Precedingly, the only abilities that allow you to RK on any topic with a Lore skill are either stunted in progression, or are considered a main feature of the class (Thaumaturge).

"The skill normally needed" is not the Lore skill, it is one of the normal (non Lore) Recall Knowledge skills. There are no checks within the game which only allow you to RK with Lore as far as I'm aware. No sane GM would allow you to do this, this ability is already quite powerful.

You aren't replacing the Lore skill, because Lore is meant to be specific, and Arcana is not a Lore skill. It makes the most sense to replace the skill closest to Arcana, which would be Nature in your example.

It's real power doesn't come when compared to another party members +7 Int bonus to a lore skill, its when that +7 is pitted against the +28 the Sorcerer can have for being legendary in Thassilonian Textile Lore.

I don't think this feature works this way. It says "Attempt to Recall Knowledge; you can use Arcana instead of the skill normally needed for that subject." You're using Arcana, not a specific Lore skill.

Occult: Fine as is.

I disagree that Occult is fine. Because the usefulness of the 10ft Step is almost completely overridden by the fact you are casting a spell with the Manipulate trait directly beforehand. At that point you might as well just Stride because you've already taken the Reactive Strike.

Temp HP abilities are balanced against the force field armor upgrade, which only can be used three times per day, costs a lot, and takes up a slot. All day resourcesless temp HP sources are going to be worse than that at comparable levels.

There are options in Envoy which give way more Temporary Hitpoints for a much lower cost. I don't really see why Temp HP should be lower than healing. Also an armor upgrade is not really analogous to a class feature.

The issue with Temp HP being too low is that they aren't going to actually keep someone up to soak an extra attack or turn. At level 7, Steel Yourselves! gives 5 Temp HP, how often is this actually making a difference? You're spending two actions total to achieve this.

Compare this to Hang in there! Which gives 11 Temp HP on a successful DC 20 Diplomacy check, or 18 on a critical success. Sure it only works once per ally, but it's resourceless and will likely prevent a hit.

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As for your other comment. I'm not sure why you're excluding options which are "costly" resources. These options are still used within the game, and are useful for the whole party. All you need is one enemy to be Off Guard and it's likely going to be better to hit that enemy over someone with Get Em!. Limiting it to only ranged options makes no sense either.

Also my whole point is that if you're in a party who easily applies Off Guard, you're going to be overshadowed by them. The damage boost from Get Em! is not very good compared to the extra -1 to AC. The Envoy should not be the "consolidation" for the striker classes when it comes to support from their main feature. Envoy shouldn't feel like they're being overshadowed in a party that applies Off Guard easily. Furthermore, parties with melee characters who flank and/or trip are going to make the Envoy feel un-needed.

Ranged Trip is also a trait many weapons will have.

Kitusser wrote:

I suspect Paizo doesn't want Envoy to step on the toes of the Commander. Not sure what the solution here is, but I wish this class had a greater focus on support. Pathfinder/Starfinder is not lacking in ranged damage dealers, but is definitely lacking in martial supports.

I'd say that the Commander and Envoy are fundamentally different enough classes that they're unlikely to tread on each other's toes unless one tries really hard to play like the other. The Commander's all about using their own actions to make their allies do things with amazing action economy, whereas the Envoy's a skill monkey who's also good at team buffs. I completely agree that the Envoy is really messily-designed right now, though, and their class features feel chock-full of number boosters that should've been left behind in 1e, particularly the multiple uses of a per-day ability.

Following up on the above, my suggestions would be:

Gut the number boosters from the Envoy's class features, specifically Wise to the Game, Practiced/Savvy/Effortless Influencer, Hidden/Indiscernible Agenda, and Silver Tongue's mechanics beyond the class DC bump.

Take the higher-level directives out of the class features, and either make them into early-level feats or have each subclass give its own bonus directive (or both).

Rework leadership styles so that it's less about getting bonus skill increases and feats (which you get plenty of already) and more about getting new directives and new ways of leading by example (that can't be made into free actions unless that's explicitly the intention). Alternatively, streamline the Envoy even further by doing away with subclasses and giving them even more build flexibility through feats.

I'd personally lean towards making Size Up and Saw It Coming into feats that can then be built upon, rather than their own class feature.

Combine Adaptive Talent, Improvised Mastery, and Legendary Improvisation into a 1st-level feature that lets you gain temporary skill feats...

I think I mostly agree here. Although I think the class should get some directives for free, kinda like how the Commander gets free Tactics. I personally really like Size Up, but I'm not going to die on the hill of it needing to be a class feature.

I want this class to be more support focused, and I feel it is lacking combat-wise in that regard.

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- Get Em! is the main feature of this class and I think it is too weak after low levels. Envoy should get more directives and not need to spend class feats to obtain them necessarily.

- Steel Yourselves! is just a terrible ability. It is once per hour, barely gives any Temp HP, and it costs an action from you and your party member. The lead by example effect is pretty good though, can conflict with other buffs however.

- All these abilities which boost their skills are all over the place. I like Size Up, maybe more of the class budget should go into this ability, and there should be more feats to expand on this. Having 8 features which enhance skills feels messy.

I suspect Paizo doesn't want Envoy to step on the toes of the Commander. Not sure what the solution here is, but I wish this class had a greater focus on support. Pathfinder/Starfinder is not lacking in ranged damage dealers, but is definitely lacking in martial supports.

I don't mind the overlap with Get 'em. Eithe ryou don't have both in the same party, or you can spread the effects among multiple targets. There are ways to play around the overlap.

This ability is supposed to be for focus firing, and it's your main feature. If you have a party who easily provides Off-Guard, there is almost no reason to use this ability. Spreading things out is suboptimal.

And "Don't have both in the same party" in a game with 6 classes is really asking for a lot. Operative unironically does Envoy's job better here. Off-Guard is more powerful than Get Em! is. Even if there were more classes, it's going to be a common occurrence to have both in the same part. I think it's bad design to not want a support and a striker on the same squad.

I actually like Foretell Harm. Unlike persistent damage, it triggers at the beginning of the target(s?)' turn. You wouldn't want it as your only cursebound. (The only 1st level cursebound that seems relevant more than once a battle is Nudge the Scales, so most builds probably want to get two.) Applying it to a whole groups would be pretty great, but even on a single target, you're talking about free action, no save damage. And most notably you can save this for when your spell ALMOST kills an enemy. You know when you leave an enemy at single digit HP and wish you had one more action to fire a magic missile? This basically gives you that extra action.

I appreciate Amaya/Polaris's write up. Their thoughts mirror my own. I really like the flavor of the Dead Walk. It would make a great addition to my battle oracle. Sadly I'm having a really hard time justifying it instead of just converting him to flames.

The thing is that you're increasing your curse, so it's not "free".

Dangerous Sorcery (or the new Sorcerous Potency) is actually free, and it undeniably works on every target of the spell. It's also damage that comes immediately, not after a delay (damage now is better than damage later). The only advantages of Foretell harm is the fact that the damage can proc weaknesses, and it does full damage regardless of the enemy saving throw result.

If it hits all enemies it becomes a lot better, but I still don't like the per target cooldown.

1 Foretell Harm (starting feat for Flames/Tempest): free action 1/round, previous non-cantrip damage spell's target takes 2*spell rank damage of the same type on their next turn, then is immune 24 hours. It's not an astoundingly impactful amount in a vacuum, but it can retrigger weaknesses, has no save, and takes no extra action economy. If the PFS clarifications have input from the designers, it's supposed to work on all targets of an AoE, which would also magnify it quite a bit. Helpful to have and use either way, worthwhile enough for all but the most extreme curses (and by that I mostly mean Ancestors unless they can get some safety), though other Cursebounds may outshine it in their use cases.

If those PFS changes are legit this feat seems to be a lot better now, although the per target cooldown is still questionable. Before the feat was honestly pretty bad, only working on a single target, and having a per target cooldown.