Thanks for the update, I am one of the ones with the defect on a limited edition copy, so it looks like I will be waiting for a while. I sent an email a few days back and just waiting for customer service to get to my email.
Sorry to res the thread a year later, but first I wanted to thank you for pointing out that they are masterwork and the enhanced statement refers to magic "+X enhancement bonuses" costing less if the weapon is already masterwork. I too had been reading them as being able to be made into masterwork versions, and was confused both as to if that would make them +2 attack, and if they weren't masterwork why they had an odd price of 305gp.
As they are masterwork I now wonder why they don't have non-masterwork versions, without the +1 atk, for just 5 gold and save everyone the confusion, not to mention make it so they are affordable at level 1/start. And what about special material costs, 610gp for cold iron? Since RAW is double stated price for cold iron, and the stated price is 305gp not 5gp with 300 masterwork quality cost which would instead make them 310gp when masterwork or 10gp as normal quality. What about a weight for Mithral (I prefer mithral weapons to silver as they count as silver but don't have the attack penalty) or Darkwood and other weight based materials, because while it says "blades" it never specifies they are or have to be metal anywhere in the description. Also as they are marked as equipment not a weapon how do you price the material listings that only have options for ammunition armors and weapons, such as Adamantine, do you count as a weapon (in which case why would five blades the size of claws cost the same as a meter or longer great sword?) or based on the size of the individual claws likely using about the same material as five pieces of ammunition would you price the claws the same as 5 pieces of ammunition. (On a side note why doesn't adamantine have a price breakdown for weapons like alchemical silver, different for light, one-handed, and two-handed, and double weapons priced as one-/two-handed dependent on if it is one or two heads being made of adamantine? If you take the 3000gp price for weapons as the maximum or two-handed price then one-handed at half that would be 1500gp, and light, if following Alchemical Silver's ratio, would be ten times the cost of ammunition or 600gp.)
The biggest benefit I see for them is being able, as light weapons, to use them for both weapon finesse and the TWF feat chain/iterative attacks with high BAB. While arguably the TWF benefits (with ImprovedTWF and iterative attacks) only become better than natural attack (with two claws as a primary attacks) at BAB 6(+) the entry on natural attacks only has them count as light off-hand weapons (only in terms of penalties) when mixing natural attacks and weapon attacks stating that in that case (the penalties) they can be effected by TWF/multiattack and only at 6(+) BAB as they become secondary attacks at -5 BAB before the TWF penalties. So to get to use them with TWF chain you have to use another weapon and they give a second attack at the second iterative attack bonus level not the first (+6/+1/+1 before TWF penalties [maybe +6/+1/+1/+1 with ImpTWF?] vs. the standard +6/+6/+1/+1 with TWF and ImpTWF and again before TWF penalties). This is also all STR based, which as a DEX bonus race, and with TWF requiring high DEX, is rather inefficient. Even with Nat attacks counting as Light when combined with weapon attacks (and all the problems with that model and TWF) that is only for determining the Penalties to attacks, and as such does not allow for using Weapon finesse to use Dex for attacking, not to mention the Unchained Rogue's Finesse Training allowing Dex-to-Dmg with a Finess-able weapon. While the Dex-Dmg only comes in at 3rd level by which time you should be able to afford a pair of claw blades, the bonus feat of Weapon Finesse is given at first but won't apply to claws until you can afford claw blades and can find a place to buy them (or make them if you spend points on craft).
Basically if the point is to make it so you can build a claw fighter that holds up at higher levels without using weapons, and does so by making the claws count as weapons, then it would do so better if they were actual weapons. Make them exotic weapons and give them a special *see description* entry for damage, which states that damage is based on existing natural attack damage. Then fluff stating the reason as being that making them fit the character requires they be equivalent size to existing claws with larger or longer natural claws allowing an equal size of bladed sheath to fit over them (and larger weapons do more damage so if you have larger natural claws/higher damage die then it makes sense the damage of the blades would be higher than if they were for a smaller claw) and for the character to stay as proficient with them as they would their natural claws they are made to be light and form fitting. Then you have a *Special* note stating that characters with Natural claw attacks from racial feats or abilities (as opposed to class abilities or feats that grant claws) gain racial proficiency with claw blades, but that any character with claws may take "exotic weapon proficiency: claw blades"; however, without claws to fit on the claw blades have nothing to attach to and cannot be equipped.
Another new(?) weapon could also be potentially be made, Clawed gauntlet, that is also sold individually like spiked and regular gauntlets (as weapons, separate from those that are with medium/heavy armor) but that does slashing damage. Perhaps kept as exotic, like the claw blades would be, as utilizing them effectively isn't as simple as just punching and requires a new combat skill set reflected in spending a feat for proficiency. Just doing d4 dmg and counting as an armed attack, like spiked gauntlets, might make them seem like not worth the feat to get them though so maybe they have higher damage at d6, or they have either a greater crit range or crit multiplier (19-20 or x3), or they have the Disarm special quality from being so curved/hooked? Would also give a Special statement that they make fine manipulations with hands harder and when worn impose a penalty to disable device checks, escape artist checks to untie ropes (you have blades on your fingers, just cut the rope), linguistics checks to make a forgeries, and sleight of hand skill checks as well as Dex checks with your hands.
TL;DR - claw blades, as a way of allowing for a feral-feeling claw attacking character to stay effective at later levels through access to special materials and magic enhancements, should just be made exotic weapons that require natural claws to equip to (and thus their damage is the damage of the claw they are attached to), and grant racial proficiency to characters with claws from racial abilities or feats just as they could use their natural claws. No natural claws/claw attacks mean nothing to equip them to, and no damage from them. Create a clawed gauntlet instead.
I just got a copy of this, my first Pathfinder Tales novel actually, and I had been wondering if I should read other books in the line first or just dive in, but after going through this thread I am going to get started on it when I finish this post. That said when I got the book I remembered that I had heard that Pathfinder Tales books had boons/chronicles for Society play, and I found where those resources are for the earlier books, but not one for Lord of Runes. My question is will there be one for Lord of Runes later or are they being discontinued for some reason with the move to Tor?
Resurrecting this thread so we don't have to go over details again.
So, as I understand it, Thistle Arrows would do damage as an arrow fired from whatever bow (I have a shortbow so 1d6) and then bleed 1hp per round for 1d6 rounds?
I know this is late, but as there was no reply, and since I've been looking at these myself I thought I would paste in the relevant entry from the Campaign Setting.
Thistle Arrow: These arrows are a specialty of the Ekujae
shamans, who craft the arrowheads out of the thistles of a toxic
plant that most creatures find highly caustic. They deal normal
damage but then become embedded in the wound and deal an
additional 1 point of damage each round for 1d6 rounds from their
irritating sap. Creatures immune to poison are immune to this
extra damage. A creature can remove an embedded thistle arrow
as a move action without provoking attacks of opportunity, but
doing so deals an additional 1d3 points of damage as the thorny
barbs are pulled free. A DC 12 Heal check (made as a standard
action) can pull free a thistle arrow’s head without dealing any
additional damage. A single thistle arrow costs 1 gp.
and from Adventurer's Armory.
Thistle Arrow: Crafted from the thistles of a poisonous
plant, these barbed arrows deal damage as a bleed effect
for 1d6 rounds after a hit.
My guess is that the intent of Adventurer's Armory entry was to say that Only the bleed damage is legal, not the extra 1d3 to remove. Though it also seems to remove the "Creatures immune to poison are immune to this extra damage." specification however; since it leaves in "crafted from ... poisonous plant" this may be debatable. One thing to note however is the cost of 1gp per arrow as that is not specified anywhere in Adventurer's Armory that I could find.
I mentioned this in a different thread but I see it should really be here:
Skilled costs 4RP
Vestigial Wings costs 2RP
Thus making Tieflings (and any other made-up race with similar base) 11RP if (for fluff reasons) you want V.W.
Also a nerf considering Aasimar have a chance to gain wings with feats.
If you were trying to build something like an Erinyes using ARG, would it be possible to open something like the Stretched Wings feat the Strix get, to races with "half-wings"?
Is there an argument for a "custom build" to get the equivalent points "Wyvaran" wings instead?
Or possibly the wings replacing either one of the skill bonuses, or one of the other racial traits?
Movement Traits >> Advanced Traits
Flight (4 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Members
of this race have a fly speed of 30 feet with clumsy
maneuverability. Special: This trait can be taken more
than once. For each additional 2 RP spent, the race’s fly
speed increases by +10 feet, and the maneuverability
improves by one step.
Does not have any specifications of how said creature flies, whether by having wings or by magic/ability.
well after reading all this I'll leave rogues out of consideration except for homebrew campaigns where I can get some house rule concessions from the GM. If I am going to go skill monkey I'll probably look at the trapper/freebooter ranger, or maybe a ninja because: poison. In actuality though I'm not currently playing any Pathfinder games, but I am playing a 3.5 that has dropped to only 2 players so I may offer to play a version of that re-fluffed "barbarian-as-a-'monk'" class (from a few pages back in this thread) in addition to my rogue.
Anyways I want to thank everyone who has been posting in this thread, whether you were for a rogue build or not. You have given a rather crunchy perspective on rogues, and to an extent on Pathfinder as a system, that has helped me to see through a lot of the fluff and polish that pathfinder has. Its actually been fun reading all the competing builds and suggestions.
I just want to through one thing out there. Instead of how can you build a skill monkey, how would you go about making a campaign for skill monkeys? Specifically would/could you make it balanced between casters and noncasters. At low levels I guess it could be a matter of frequency, after all spell casters can only cast so many times in a day. At what point though would it become purely an issue of roleplaying vs. rollplaying or would it. And any other issues with such a campaign that I can't think of. Just curious what it would look like.
The important thing is to make sure that a ninja can never take the Pirate archetype.
Thankfully there's no Robot archetype for the rogue either!
(not sure if this has been said, but saying anyways) There IS an android that can be taken as a race in the Inner Sea Beastiary
Android:
Androids are defined by their class levels–they do not have racial Hit Dice. All androids have the following racial traits.
Standard Racial Traits
Ability Score Racial Traits Androids have swift reflexes and are very intelligent, but have difficulty relating to others. As a result, androids gain a +2 bonus to Dexterity and Intelligence, but suffer a –2 penalty to Charisma.
Languages: Androids begin play speaking Common. Androids with high Intelligence can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
Feat and Skill Racial Traits
Androids gain a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks.
Emotionless (–1 RP): Androids have problems processing emotions properly, and thus take a –4 penalty on Sense Motive checks.
Senses Racial Traits
Exceptional Senses: Androids have darkvision to a range of 60 feet and low-light vision.
Other Racial Traits
Constructed (2 RP): For the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type (such as a ranger's favored enemy and bane weapons), androids count as both humanoids and constructs. Androids gain a +4 racial bonus on all saving throws against mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, and stun effects, are not subject to fatigue or exhaustion, and are immune to disease and sleep effects. Androids can never gain morale bonuses, and are immune to fear effects and all emotion-based effects.
Emotionless (–1 RP): Androids have problems processing emotions properly, and thus take a –4 penalty on Sense Motive checks.
Nanite Surge (3 RP): An android's body is infused with nanites. Once per day as an immediate action, an android can cause her nanites to surge, granting a bonus equal to 3 + the android's character level on any one d20 roll; this ability must be activated before the roll is made. When an android uses this power, her circuitry-tattoos glow with light equivalent to that of a torch in illumination for 1 round.
Making the katana finessable would also be a nice addition for rogues. Give me a finessable agile katana, wielded in 2 hands with 18 base Dex and I'd be a happy camper, errr ninja.
Instead I have to waste a feat to get proficiency with the Elven Curved Blade or play a race I don't want to play.
spend a feat on exotic weapon proficiency with one weapon, or lose human bonus feat for this:
Adoptive Parentage Humans are sometimes orphaned and adopted by other races. Choose one humanoid race without the human subtype. You start play with that race's languages and gain that race's weapon familiarity racial trait (if any). If the race does not have weapon familiarity, you gain either Skill Focus or Weapon Focus as a bonus feat that is appropriate for that race instead. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.
and get not only elven curved blade but all other "Elven" weapons
Exactly they are far behind everyone, even the ninja. At level 10 the alternate rogue class is using greater indivisibility in every fight and is attacking flat footed AC. Something the rogue can't do more than once a round (if that).
Ok so I'll post more later (still reading through), but if the Ninja is that much better than play a homebrew (or atleast not a PFS) game and convince the GM to allow you to trade Ninja Poison Use for Rogue Trapfinding they have very similar (if not identical, didn't check) skill lists and both get 8+ Int skill points. Plus as you said they get to have invis and greater invis through Ninja tricks, and advanced ninja tricks respectively. And you don't have to play a naruto knock off or a head to toe, black clad, masked and hooded ninja. Often times ninjas looked just like normal people after all, because thats what they started out as. Peasant, Commoners, etc were not allowed to carry weapons of any kinds in ancient japan, that was relegated to the lords and their samurai. So to get around it, common farm instruments were modified into weapons. (and yes I know I'm butchering the history and etc, if you know it better, or more specifics you can correct me) Basically my point is the character concept summary Twig wrote would pretty easily fit the ninja as well. A mundane person able to do extraordinary things.
