Kazz Signsoul's page

I'm Kazz with TEO. I backed at the Brewmaster lvl.
I'm sure you'll all see my cleric around pounding back pints and pounding down mobs.

*post not wholly relevant to topic*

anyone else get this image in their head when looking at locations / names for settlements?

Hey, I am pretty sure this falls under calculus!

Fx for P-column in Safety tab:

Quote:

=( ( (100/F4) + (100/E4) - (100/B4) - (100/C4) - (100/D4) + (((1*L4) - (1*K4) - (2*J4) - (3*I4))/H4 ) ) / 6 ) * 100

;) Please note that I am easily impressed by math. :D

Just be aware that while the raw data is solid (or as close to solid as I could get ->distances), basically all the formulas and results of those formulas are just a bunch of SWAGs. (Scientific-Wild-Ass-Guess). [That's an actual engineering term, fyi.] Just keep SWAGing until it looks like it represents what they talked about in the blogs. (like todays teens!)

@ Kazz It will not be long and we can trump Eve in the "spreadsheet" department. :D

Just kidding, I love this sort of deepdiving into the mechanics. Your xls already gives a hint how complex of a game PFO could become. Complex in the good sense, off course. Amazing, what an amount of work must have gone into this, Kazz.

Thanks a lot, now to crunch some of those numbers.

I LOVE SPREADSHEET_ONLINE!!

LIKE IF YOU DID YOUR INVERSE DIFFERENTIAL DATA ANALYSIS RIGHT IT SHOWS YOU REALY NEAT ANIMATIONS OF SPACESHIPS FIGHTING!!!

but in all, seriousness, love Eve. First MMO where I actually got into the community.

Also, yah, I'll prob make more random spreadsheets as time goes on and details are released. (though this one is nicer looking then most I've done. And simpler! LOOK NO CALCULUS! yes have have applied calculus to my eve builds)

Oh and about this sheet... I'm not sure, I still feel like it's missing some kind of data, or analysis, or something... meh, I'm sure it'l come to me at the most inopportune moment. or someone well tell me. (well, maybe not the evil characters, they'll prob just let me drive myself mad trying to figure it out. like syntax error in 1000 lines of code...)

I knew I should have commented better. (same prob with all my code, I never comment enough).

Yes, all the distances are in meters. The Distance Data page gives you the distance from that settlement to the closest hex of that type. So if Settlement XX has 8400 under the mountain column, the closest mountain hex to XX is 8400m away. (Under the Resources Tab, there is an average distance that settlement is from all resource hex types. The lower the number, the more diverse the resources around that settlement are.)

Value, Safety, and Risk are calculated independent of each-other.

In short, Higher Risk, More PvE. Higher Value, more money from more rare resources; also increase likelihood of PvP. More safety, less PvE, and generally closer to major trade routs.

Value is based on rarity and concentration. The more of an uncommon resource in a small area, the higher the score. The value takes an average of rarity of the hexes close to that settlement relative to how many other settlements have that resource also. In short, higher value more likely to have rare/uncommon resource, so more potential to make money.

You can scale the value based on what resource type you prefer.

I well look into a good formula that gives an overall score, but different guilds well have different preferences, so while a one number score is nice and simple, the data becomes fairly meaningless by trying to represent everything.

Safety is basically an indicator of how likely rare resources well drop around that settlement. The higher the safety, the closer you are to the starting areas, the less likely rare drops become. You are also unlikely to be bothered by many monsters. They are also more newbie friendly and crafting guilds with out combat guild friends friendly.

Monster Risk is how likely/often you can expect to fight monsters around that settlement. For big PvE guilds, they are the bee's nees. For trading/gathering guilds, not so much. Places with more monsters also seem more likely to spawn rare resources. The highest risk hexes seem to be close to where the meteors are closer together as-well.

Even with the spreadsheet, I find myself facing the "Settlers of Catan" conumdrum.
ORE AND WHEAT!?! or BRICK AND WOOD!!?

Its that kind of game-theory. The data just shows the initial rarity of the tiles untill ppl expand.
So you can look at the sheet to try and make an optimal first move.

Except in this case, everyone is moving at once, and they're armed....

Okay I think I’ve got all the important bits done for this excel doc.
Gonna share it here ==>> PFO Land Rush Data

I think I can sleep now.

There are some isolated plains (say near G or near AD) amongst forest or highlands or even next to mountain. Are these isolated and unreachable as they have no X?

In this case, those plains are at the same elevation as the surrounding tiles. Its easier to see what elevation is where if you take a look at the larger more detailed map. This maps shows where are the cliffs are, so it makes the tiers of the map more clear.

I just want to be sure of what hexes have which resources.

• Plains -> Food stuffs (farming, gathering, ect), magical essences, (eye of neut? or is that from the swap hex?).
  
• Mountains -> Ore (all flavors of the quarry-bow).
  
• Meteor -> Rare Ore (Sky Metal, Adamantium, Meteoric iron,.others?..)
  
• Forests -> Trees, wood, herbs, shrubs (shrubberies, and knights of say "NEE!"?)
  
• Mountain Forests -> Some mountain stuff, some forest stuff. Not as much as either.
  
• Hills -> THIS is where I get lost. I have no idea what Hills have. Some aspects of plains and some of mountains? Grazing land for herds of cattle and some lesser quarries? I took a skim through the blog and found nothing in detail. Just that hills, do in fact, exist in PFO. Does anyone remember what was said about hills?
  

//also, I forgot about hills in my spreadsheet; thus my questions about them. Now I have to go back and add them in; and remeasure distances and reformat some tables. (I put the hills in as plains. Oops.)

I think V looks nice. Not too far from mountains. Relatively close to 2 meteorites. Plenty of forest, a few plains, and RIGHT NEXT TO THE SPIRE!! It is prime virtual-real-estate.

[edit] Thanks Quandary.

I just took a look at the blog and maps last night.
First thing I did was print of the Land Rush map and detailed map and cross reference them. I drew in the cliffs by hand.

Both the maps have got me excited for EE! Can hardly wait!
Personally, the whole choke point thing is really appealing to me.

Did anyone else go over board and make an excel doc to find the optimal settlement to go for? I think my data is pretty good, but after reading prior posts on the distance across the hexes, I think my measurements are about 65% of what they should be. (As long as I'm consistently wrong for all measurements it shouldn't skew the interpretation to badly, i hope).

I did notice some inconsistencies between the 2 maps though. Like the meteor hex by 'O' is to the north-west on the LR map, not the north-east like on the Detailed map. Also the X north of 'H' is at -09,-03 on the LR instead of at -10,-03.

Can we assume the LR map is a more infallible representation of what things well be like for EE then the Detailed map?

//as a side note; according to how the interpretation came out 'M' is the safest settlement (least at risk from monsters), while 'C' is the most at risk.

So, the issues with new player experiences in EVE are:
-less then specific and non-frank, gauntlet of text, tutorials.
-an overload of options and lack of direction resulting in a "what am I supposed to do?" complex.
-a steep learning curve for those who decide on a direction to take, a "how am I supposed to do that?" complex.
-and, (generally) a player based that finds it difficult, (or just tiresome) to aid new players.
-vets who try to scam new players, or use them as fodder.

Right, back to PFO then.
So assuming the above are the big things to avoid for new player experiences in a sandbox MMO,
what kind of early experience/tutorial shall PFO strive to create?

I don't see the last 2 issues being a problem in PFO. There are already player factions that have made helping new players part of their mandate.

I don't see the learning curve being an issue either. Prior blog posts have already mentioned that PFO will have certificate like milestone markers in the form of sudo-feat things. And the helpful early core player base should make new players finding a direction/niche a limited problem as well. A built in character planner or recommended training system might help this also, but can probably wait until the end of beta of even until after release.

It seems to me the main system that has yet to be worked out is the built in tutorial. It would be nice to see a series of early missions that showcase all the game systems and features to new players while networking them to the pre-established NPC starter factions over the course of the quest line. Clear, concise text instructions or perhaps cut-scene style explanations would be nice to see.

The trick well be to streamline the educational bits into making a player self-scientific and/or into joining a chartered company.

Putting systems in place to help/encourage players to group-up in a meaningful way is as I see it, a tool that has a lot of limits. Tools, systems and tutorials can help quite a bit, but the largest factor in a good new player experience is the player community. Especially in a sandbox MMO. That is (as I see it) Eve's biggest shortfall on the new player front as well as other sandboxes.

With the sure dedication and devotion the player base this game already has, and shows continually here on the message boards, I don't see negative new player experiences being much of a problem, but having other helpful early systems are only a boon.

Ready Player One is an AMAZING book! I'd defiantly recommend it. But I'd say its more like willywanka meets the matrix. Or maybe sword at online. (great anime)

On the subject of RP enimies, or frienemies, i was thinking of making an evil alt for others to fight for some good safe pvp. Like a league of honorable evil alts. Doing things like, say for example, a party of evil ALTs calls out a challenge to a good party and wins the fight. The evil ALTs might make a few RP insults and claims of villainous grandeur, but they WILL hang around and corpse sit for the losing party and not corpse camp or loot.
I might make another cleric, just evil this time, or maybe an anti pali, it depends. With the new add on to train two toons at once this is actually a plauseable idea now.
Anyone else have interest, thoughts or condemnations on doing something like this?
(my intention is to help add some pvp content to the game without the risk of instigating any kind of war or ongoing hostilities).

Cheers

Tavern!?

Just files out your registration form. Count a cleric of cayden Cailean among your ranks.
(and a brew master too Mayhaps! Still waiting on an answer for healing potion ale from the devs though. ;)

So, tavern. Yah, I'm up for tossing some in the hat. After all, the river Kingdoms need more taverns. (well doesn't every where?)

DRINK AND FIGHT!!
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs50/f/2009/277/e/a/Cayden_Cailean_by_nJoo.jpg
(going back to the dream theme)

I want to play my character as a cleric of Cayden Cailean.
I want to adventure, perform daring deeds and campaign against oppression.
Then go back to the pub with my pals an regale them with (only slightly inflated) tales of our grandeur.
And of course make good coin along the way.

Mayhaps help found a guild with similar goals and taste in RPing followers of the Drunken Hero.

I want to open my own bar and brewery. To make a ale famed across all the River Kingdoms.
It would be in high demand because I would craft healing potions into all my best brew. ;)
I my inn would be a hot spot for all who love life's simple pleasures. A destination for new players to reach because they know they'll be welcomed into a group out to enjoy life and make coin along the way.

If I recall the table top rules correctly, changing a weapon provokes an attack of opportunity from each enemy within 5 feet. It's also a standard action...

So, in the MMO swapping weapons would be a 4-6sec window of ouch time.
Ddo did have an option to assign weapon sets to hot keys, but the way that game was set up it was needed when fighting zombies and skeletons at higher difficulty. Or for thinning out the hoard of kobalts before switching to melee.

But the nature of the game was still vary equipment oriented. So you'd have monsters with Dr to slashing and bluggening in the same dungeon. Not a big deal, until you have to swap sets or not do any damage to that skeleton boss on hard or epic.

For ddo's combat system it worked. It was convenient, but rarely deathly necessary.

I doubt the combat well work the same, though a secondary and/or ranged weapon set slots in the equipment tab might make combat life in pfo a bit nicer. Seeing as right in it's core mechanics pathfinder is a better rpg then d&d 4.0 & 3.5 or the hybrid that ddo is based on; PFO prob won't have need of weapon swapping at low level, but might add it latter to improve the gameplay experience.

Some what unrelated question. More of an "end-game," or higher lvl thing.

Well players be able to spirit bind other players to locations?

Say a cleric gets to a high enough level to justify such a thing. If a location in a settlement or even an inn/watchtower/fort can be a spawn point, would that be an NPC mechanic innately built into such structures? Or would the connivance of resurrecting at a base of operations be an added cost to be payed to an NPC or player run?

I assume that settlements well have NPC spirit binders, but will the first tier player buildings have then also?

Say me and my fellows are fighting to defend our inn/tavern/mead-hall, if we die can we revive inside the booze-house? Well it be an NPC also, or is higher level divine magic required?

[even more unrelated...] (aside: I would like to take this time to mention I only heard of this project from a friend while visiting in the end of august, so I'm a tad behind the grade on this. As such, would like to apologies for any questions from me that already have an answer in the blogs.)

@ Threecopper

Hi there, I as a Cleric of Cayden Cailean I hope to perfect the art of brewing drink of all kinds. If you'd have me, I love to help set up and run a brewery with you.

My long term dream is to craft the finest mead into a powerful healing potion. Maybe even seasoned with a few magics boons!

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
Cheers!

So actual tactics and strategies of traditional skirmish/formal/open warfare evolving in the pvp is a distinct possibility...

AWSOME!!! Holding formation and placment of troops becomes ubber important.
And allows for full merc factions! And recruitment of lower level players to fill the ranks is highly likely. (though probably, they'd mostly be used as fodder...)

City incomes become even more important!....
economic warfare, spies, scouts, political maneuvering...

I think I'm beginning to see the full scope of GW's plans.

Question about the in game player economy:

Would prices for player made goods (or even player gathered raw materials) inflated over time?
I ask this because I see time between skill increase growing larger over time, therefore playersmay spend more time grinding for money and loots, upping the amount of disposable income quite a bit; so my fear is that asking prices may go up dramatically, even for low level goods.

It's not really something that can be easily regulated by GW, but I see out as a possibility, and it could discourage new players later into the release of the game.

That works.

Class based restrictions for specialized skills could work as well. Or some kind of penalty system for skills that work against each other.
It's really all up to the guys at GW(our DMs) in the end.

Just speculating on how it might be set up I guess.

(personally, I'm interested in setting if I can make healing potion infused beer with my cleric of Cayden Cailean idea. That be some interesting skill mixing.)

Skills training in real time can be a tad difficult to to wrap one's head around at first. One of the biggest complaints from ppl who've tried eve online is the learning curve for how the skill system works is to steep.
I think that's only part true. It's more that the concept is a tad bit alien to the old "kill stuff and grind" till you reach the next lvl style. Even skyrim had a bit of that in the XP for each skill type system.
Looking at eve as an example of how it well work makes it a bit easier.
As I understand it, merit badges with have a similar in game use as eve's certificates. A group of skills relevant to a specific part of a casas/role. Mind you space ships and fantasy charters are vary different things.
But the basic structure, I'd assume, would be the same. So there well be a fair amount of general skills, combat or other wise that would be useable/important to all classes/roles. And some specialized skills for each class/role. At low level, combat classes and spell cater classes might look the same until they start to reach their respective special skills.
I guess with a set up like that you could see 4 (or so) basic roles that diversify into the classeswe all know and love from the same start point. But again, it could be confusing without a good tutorial.
This is my understanding of it anyway...