KWScott's page

Is the Item Cost Modifier for Special Materials an addition to the Base Cost of a finished product?

So no one wants to offer an opinion, just correct my mistake.
Roight.

Thanks... Missed that...

12,000 x 2 for the continuation of a minute/level spell makes the base cost 24,000gp.

What should the divisor be for the "Gems" limitation?

I would like to create a pair of "Goggles of Gem Location."

This would use Locate Object, and the formulas straight up would be

Use-Activated Continuous: Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp

Spell level for Locate Object is 2.
Minimum caster level for a 2nd level Wizard spell is 3.

2 x 3 x 2000 = 12,000gp

6000gp to construct.

However this would produce a very useful item, that could be used to locate any specific item or the nearest example of a general type of item within 520 feet, at will.

Limiting its use, immutably, to only the nearest gem should imply some divisor on the cost.

My question is: "What should, in your opinion, that divisor be?"

Hi;

I looked around for the answer to this before posting the question, and couldn't find anything specific on it, so forgive me if it's answered somewhere, and I'd appreciate a citation.

Do multiple sources of Precision Damage stack on the same attack?

For example, a Multiclass Samurai Sword Saint/Rogue making an Iaijutsu Strikd... Would he get Both the +1d6 for the Iaijutsu Strike and the Sneak Attack dice from Rogue levels?

Thanks;

Hi, All;

How does "Called" work with double weapons?

Must Called be applied to both ends?

Thanks

Think we'll stick to what we've always done.

Thank you, Gentlemen.

How can anyone who is Not in our campaign possibly deign to know or understand wealth balance of our campaign? To assume that our campaign, or anyone else's mirrors the 'standard' suggested in the rule book would to me seem more often than not to be a poor choice. And... what I actually said was "5K short of 17th level" meaning he's currently 16th level and still needs approximately 5000 experience points to reach 17th level.

Is it common in other people's campaign's to measure one's success against that table? Do you complain to the GM if you're not On Track as regards your net worth?

But, in any case, it's irrelevant... I've gotten the information I needed, and consensus has been reached using that information. Thanks to everyone again for their input. You were of great help.

I don't understand where you got the 400K figure, and I don't understand why this conversation has strayed into this realm, nor do I see how its germane to the original thread...

I'm also not arguing the fact that successful adventurers make more than common folk... that equipment on my Paladin's back is worth more than a common man, possibly a village of common men, might see in a lifetime...

I asked some questions, got good cogent opinions from seemingly thoughtful and knowledgeable people, and was able to discuss the answers with my GM, and we came to an agreement on how the root causes of the questions will be adjudicated in our game prior to the situation occuring In Game, which may have caused consternation and delay without the forward looking planning of which this thread was a part.

Appreciate your time and consideration.

Thank you.

Fortunately, the money adventurers make is 1,000s of times more than what smiths and tailors make. Adventurers can easily, very easily, afford to buy or even find items they can use in their crafting.

You haven't played in our campaigns... ;) I've got a Paladin that's 5K short of 17th level and has the equipment on his back, and 295gp to his name. ;) And he handles the money for the party.

Thanks, Arliss;

Yes I was speaking of Craft Skill, not Crafting Magic Items. It's fairly straight forward if you don't consider crafting the base items yourself, and just 'buying off the shelf,' letting someone else deal with the mundane... And Yes, I'd come to that conclusion that the rules as written are broken, especially with Fabricate and Masterwork Transformation, which is why I came here seeking clarification. It does seem prohibitive for an adventuring Mage without the spells to craft the items, masterwork or not, unless they're only a few gold pieces each.

Thank you, Cevah.
Could you please give me a reference for the generic +50gp for Masterwork items in the CRB that you reference?

Also, a Masterwork staff would require 2 Masterwork Weapon Items. ;)

On this bit: "... the cost is not split out from the enchantment cost. Therefore you don't need any Craft(X) checks for the mundane cost."

That's true unless you intend to create the item to enchant yourself as the description of Create Rings, Create Wands, Create Wondrous Items, Create Staves in Chapter 15 of the CRB starting on page 551 all have a sentence in them similar to this:

"To create a magic ring, a character needs a heat source. He
also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a
ring or the pieces of the ring to be assembled."

Which is all well and good if you consider the components to be bought off the shelf, but if the crafter wanted to be self sufficient, it follows that the Ring (or piece of the ring to be assembled) must be crafted first... The Price of the ring would be credited to the Materials cost, but there's still additional crafting time.

And, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that a Masterwork Ring is required to create a Magic Ring on the basis that Masterwork items are specified for Arms and Armor, but no such stipulation is made for any other magic item type. "The most obvious being a ring..." not "The most obvious being a masterwork ring..." Whereas, Create Magic Weapons reads: "She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the weapon or the pieces of the weapon to be assembled. Only a masterwork weapon can become a magic weapon, and the masterwork cost is added to the total cost to determine final market value." If a masterwork ring, or staff, or cloak, or belt, or rod, or amulet were required, wouldn't it follow that a similar stipulation would have been made?

8) This is a gray area. Note that you need Craft Staff AND Craft Arms and Armor to make a Staff of Power. Both feats are required. BUT, the Staff of Power is still a Staff and is crafted using the rules for crafting magical staffs which don't specifically require a masterwork quarterstaff. If it did, the price would be 235,300 to reflect the masterwork weapon price. Therefore, it seems that you need the feat but not the masterwork item. Logically, I agree with you, if you want to add a bonus to melee rolls and are required to use Craft Magical Arms and Armor when making the Staff of Power, it should require a masterwork staff, but the rules don't seem to require it.

Not to pick nits... I get the point, but it'd be 235,600gp, as a Quarterstaff is a Double-Ended Weapon. ;)

KWScott, a few things:

1. Learn how to edit posts. Please. You do not need to double and triple post every time an idea pops into your head.

I'll give your suggestion all due consideration.

2. Unless your questions are of utmost important to the fanbase and a lot of people want an answer on them, you're highly, highly unlikely to get an official dev response. Either take the informed responses you receive here or feel free to leave, but please don't complain when you don't get a dev's opinion.

Please point out where I made a complaint. Is asking for the identity/credential of an individual equivalent to complaining about them?

Anyway, to your original questions:

I'll give your answers all due consideration.

I thought of a couple more... Specifically related to Staves and their dual nature as Weapon and Magical Focus...

A Wizard of the Elemental School of Fire starts out with an Arcane Bond(Staff) and therefore has a Masterwork Quarterstaff... At level 5 she takes Craft Magic Arms and Armor and decides to make her staff +1 Flaming quarterstaff...
At Level 11 she takes the Craft Staff feat and decides she wants to make her +1 Flaming staff a Staff of Fire...
Just pay the Staff of Fire cost and do the thing and Bango, a +1 Flaming Staff of Fire?

Since you're not enhancing an already existant affect, like taking the staff from +1 Flaming to +2 Flaming Burst, would the +1 Flaming Staff, for the purposes of creating a Staff of Fire be functionally equivalent to the original Masterwork Quarterstaff she started out with?

KWScott wrote:

Yes, Brf... I'm aware... what does that have to do with anything I've asked?

My point is that it is intended that shorter crafting times have higher DCs. Therefore it follows that longer crafting times should have lower DCs.

I'm sorry... I just don't follow or agree with that logic. Why would or should a higher DC item take a Shorter time to craft than an equivalent value, lower DC item.

I see how it works to achieve the affect of the rule... Raise the DC to shorten the crafting time... But I don't see how the example I stated makes any sense at all.

Some GMs house rule that you need a masterwork set of boots to make magical boots, but in any case, the overall cost of that item is subsumed in the cost if making the item as Blake indicated. So whether you need a 15gp set of masterwork boots and 985gp of magic supplies, or 1000gp of magic supplies and hand wave it, is up to your GM.

I agree that the way the rules are written, it all washes out in the end, but if one is playing an item crafter, it would be nice to have some guidelines as to the cost of Masterwork Boots vs. Boots... As Cost is the Major Determining Factor on how long it take to make something... (using Take 10, with a Craft (Armor) skill of 9 or better, it takes 40 weeks to craft a set of Full Plate... While it takes 3 Days to craft a Longsword... and as I pointed out above, by the rules it takes no time at all to craft a Quarterstaff.

I'm still (And this isn't really a question) perturbed/intrigued/disturbed that by the procedure detailed for crafting items, were I to attempt to craft a Typical Item (DC10) that cost 100gp, and a High Quality Item (DC15) the Typical Item would take 30% Longer to create... Again, the crafter above Taking 10...

DC10 Typical Item... 1000sp/200 = 5 weeks
DC15 High Quality Item... 1000sp/300 = 3 weeks, 2 days.

33% Faster

Do You have any more association with Paizo and speak in a more official manner than GM_Blake, or are you simply backing up a buddy?

So the short answer to my question is "No?"

Longer form: He speaks from experience and is a Valued Opinion, but his answers cannot be taken as an official stance from Paizo.

Is that a fair statement?

Yes, Brf... I'm aware... what does that have to do with anything I've asked?

Also, DM_Blake... do you speak with any official capacity as relates to Paizo and the Rules? Is your voice more "Official" in any shape form or fashion than mine or anyone else's that might post an opinion on this thread?

What about the Crafting Formula that takes longer to craft a Lower DC item than a Higher DC item of equal cost?

That doesn't really make sense.

Back to your questions.

1) Raise the price. This means it also takes more time to craft.
2) Raise the price. This means it also takes more time to craft. It also gives a circumstance bonus to whatever skill it is used with.
3) Raise the price. This means it also takes more time to craft.

1) How Much?

10) Is a "Masterwork" Ring/Cloak/Belt/Amulet/Wand/Staff required as part of the material for a Magie Ring, Wondrous Item, Amulet, Wand, Staff?

6) Can any Magical Staff be used as a Quarterstaff?
7) If so, must the caster begin with a Masterwork Quarterstaff to be Enchanted?
8) If not, does this apply to Staves (Such as the Staff of Power) that may specifically be used as a Quarterstaff?

Logically, to me, the answers are "No", "Yes, if the Magic Staff is to be used as a Quarterstaff", and "Any Magical Staff that can also be used as a Weapon must begin with a Masterwork Quarterstaff as part of the Material Cost."

9) If the above "Logical" answers are true, could you craft a Staff of Power (or any other Staff that can also be used as a Quarterstaff in Combat) using either the Craft Staff, or Craft Magic Arms or Armor fest?

Logically, to me, the answer is "No... If a staff is to have Charges and is to be able to be used to cast spells, the item must be created using the Craft Staff Item Creation Feats... This feat is capable of also applying Enhancement Bonuses and Special Attributes to any Magical Staff that may also be used as a Quarterstaff in Combat."

A Discharged Magical Quarterstaff would still be Masterwork, or retain the Enhancement Bonus and any Special Attributes.

1 & 3) Doesn't matter, there's no such thing as a masterwork anything other than Armor or Weapons. While an Item of the appropriate description is require for crafting other types of magic items (Wondrous, Rods, Rings, ect), mundane examples of them are sufficient and subsumed into the cost of the Item Creation Cost.

2, 4, & 5 I'd still like answers on.

Also, since the Quarterstaff has no cost... so the silver piece cost of the item is 0... There is no time required to make a quarterstaff, and there is no consequence for failure as 50% of zero is still 0, with 0 time required...

DM: There is a chasm 100 feet deep and 50 feet wide before you.
Woodsman Joe: I fill the chasm with Quarterstaves and walk across.
DM: Huh? That'll take a long time!
Woodsman Joe: No, I have one rank of Craft (Weapon)... I can make infinite Quarterstaves in one round!

1) How do you make a Masterwork Item that's not a Weapon or Armor?
2) How do you make a Masterwork Skill Kit other than by Masterwork Transformation?
3) How do you make a Masterwork Item that is not a Weapon, Armor, or Skill Kit?
4) Can you use Take 10 on Craft Skill Rolls?
5) Can you use Take 20 on Craft Skill Rolls?

Note: The Formula for calculating how long it takes to complete and item actually takes LONGER to create LOWER DC Items... This is... counterintuitive.