Interesting to see all the goblin socialism here, when I was sure that goblins were free market types, what with all their "Goblin Markets". Can you be a paladin of the "invisible hand"?
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I think that for some people, every thread is a caster/martial disparity thread. Sufficed to say I've had my fill of those.
I'll be sure to rustle up a real live linguist for you right away. Or perhaps he put ranks into french after learning italian and spanish? Maybe the skill isn't perfectly written. It doesn't mean that the game fundamentally revolves around "go magic/full BAB, or go home". That's not a truth, its a playstyle.
I missed the part in that link that describes how you communicate with someone that speaks a language you don't know. Which is what he said. Show me a mundane real-world linguist that has that ability. Specifically perfect communication with people speaking a totally foreign language.
No, you just don't have tongues. Your definition of "screwed" need reexamination. ROFLOL or, you know, roll linguistics.
If these things you say were true, then the game would be much more boring than it really is. The fact is you are not giving any credit to any build without THE BEST combat or spell casting abilities, and that is misguided. You are positing strict optimization as the only method of success, and it is not. No, you just don't have tongues. Your definition of "screwed" need reexamination. Spoiler: Ahhhhh, nice. Using the Craft rules as your example of why magic RULZORZ. Craft is perhaps one of the most houseruled skills in the game. A quick search of these boards will show you how much people have done just that. In fact there are 3rd party products called making craft work. Also no disrespect to your painter, but the is not a class, that is a profession. I should know. I am one. Sadly, I don't go on adventures much, and when I do, I don't paint. But I digress. Fabricate is nice to have as a painter, but it isn't necessary for painting.
Mistah Green, is that you in there .... If these things you say were true, then the game would be much more boring than it really is. The fact is you are not giving any credit to any build without THE BEST combat or spell casting abilities, and that is misguided. You are positing strict optimization as the only method of success, and it is not.
Monks [...] are certainly the most mobile characters in the game. Cherry pick less please. The barbarians +10 is eaten by medium armor. Both classes benefit from haste the same amount. I've already approached what they do when they get there. Since you don't believe in non specialists, I won't waste your time. End game wizard So that's a wizard for a 10-11th level party to fight, right? APL+5? If that's the case this wizard is meant to fight FOUR people, each who compliments the other. It might be someone else who burns the wizard's quickened dim door, and it might be the monk who catches up to him with a fly spell cast by the party wizard. If the part doesn't have invisibility purge or some such, the monks high perception is their best chance to catch the wizard. But as soon as the monk catches up to the wizard, he can pretzel him, forcing a to make a concentration check every time he wants to cast a spell that somatic/material components.
So then to deconstruct and simplify your point, you do not believe in the effectiveness of anything other specialists, and believe even less in non-full casters, because they do not optimize their spell DCs and are less effective at casting spells, the "real" action economy in the game. Fair enough, you are entitled to that interpretation, but that is not the current topic of discussion. We are discussing a monks role in the average party, one with martial and caster types. Using Prof Cirno's standards for what makes a working class: 1. What they do Uniquely: Monks are the most prepared of any martial class in situations where a lack of items (armor, weapons, amulets, cloaks, etc) is the challenge, such as needing to blend in with the locals, or after being jailed and having all your stuff confiscated. The monks weapons, armor, and saving throw items are "built-in". Most are not even supernatural so they don't get blocked by anti-magic zones. Mind you, I don't think its fair to compare the monk to a cleric who accomplishes the same thing by blowing a bunch of his spells for the day replicating the monks abilities for an encounter or two. Yes, casters can replicate other classes abilities, but only when they have the foresight to do so, and at the cost of behaving like their own class with their own unique stuffs. 2. Wide Scale Impact: Monks are about on par with fighters for damage, and are certainly the most mobile characters in the game. As has been discussed they can move about the battle field, off-tanking and flanking as needed. They make other melee better which is how they are team players. They are very defensive against casters and if built for grappling RUIN a caster based encounter.
caster-martial disparity thread is that way <---------------------------------- |