Jedorian's page

And for your referencing enjoyment, you can refer to my older post, which does include quotes and references. Not that you will choose to pay attention to those, as you are so very keen on clinging to statements that have been rendered moot.

** spoiler omitted **

Yes! Precisely what I had said would happen. I must be magic. Lets reference more outdated and contradictory stuff, shall we?

@Jedorian: I'm not sure that either of those passaged implies that you can't make stuff with a CL higher than your own.

The only place where I see a mandatory demand of your caster level is in creating magic arms and armor. That and the Crafting Feat is absolutely mandatory; everything else is replaceable with +5 DCs.

I also don't think this is necessarily that bad a thing; if a wizard needs to create a magic item to do X, because he can't cast X yet, that's basically a form of very slow, very expensive casting of X.

Magic item CL seems to be a pretty separate thing from caster CL.

And yet again, the ability to read has perished.

Ascalaphus, it is in SKR FAQ. And no, it don't make it difficult. If you do the math a focused 4th level caster can make a miscellaneous item that will cast unlimited wishes. Granted, it would need around 1.5 millions in components and for years of work, but taking 10 he would automatically succeed.

(lvl 9 spell, CL 17, DC 22, +5 for lacking the spell = DC 27. Make it a jewelled necklace so you can use craft Jewellery. Int 20, skill focus, Craft Jewellery, masterwork tools, maximized skill:
int +5, skill 4+3, tools +2, skill focus +3, total bonus +17
A level 4 caster can beat a DC 27 check consistently.)

That is what I had to correct with my players, as they were just as confused as you. It is very clearly stated that you need to have the minimum level to cast the spell in the first place at all. Again, we fall back to the utter loss of common sense and the ability to read that most players (and us DMs) seem to suffer from when it comes to this issue.

A 4th level caster is not capable of casting Wish, as in order to do so they need to have the ability to cast 9th levels spells.

I do not see any text in any of these books where it states that you can use a spell above your caster level without Use Magic Device being required (and even then, the task is often quite impossible as the DC would be over the best they could get even with a 20, excluding high powered characters, that is).

Also, no mage can add a spell to their spell list that is beyond their level's capability. Where in the rules do you see this being so?

No, indeed, it states:

"...A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than
her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to
cast the needed spell...", pg. 549, Core Rule Book, 5th edition, second paragraph, second sentence.

And after reading this material (as I'm somewhat new to Pathfinder), I also found the passage which states that the crafting feat is also necessary, something I was not aware of at the time of my initial posts.

"...The only exception to this is the requisite item
creation feat, which is mandatory....", pg. 549, Core Rule Book, 5th edition, first paragraph, fourth sentence.

With these things now clarified, I am quite well aware of how the system functions. It is very well put together and extremely nice for players as they can very easily create things now without a huge cost to self.

I understand how so many people have been confused over this stuff. If you don't read ALL the words, then you wind up looking like a dunce (of which I am certainly guilty).

"Now to your question, the only thing that's absolutely required is the crafting feat itself."

Is there some text I can use to verify this? Something absolute would be a great thing to have to show my players. And to respond to your snarky remarks about the crafting system and how I view it, my only real problem is the claim that a feat can be ignored. Which, if so, would have been broken.

The other aspects make sense, especially after reviewing Sean's comments on the matter. Though, nothing has been stated about the feats themselves. Common sense at the gaming table concerning this matter tends to die a horrible death when the debate arises.

Just recently had a debate over the specifics of all this. My players are under the impression that you can ignore all of prerequisites which I am in some disagreement to.

Firstly, I understand (and mainly by the aid of this thread) that a caster needs to be capable of casting a spell that they are attempting to dismiss by using the +5 DC rule. So, a wizard can't go attempting to craft a cloak that grants displacement without first actually having the minimum level to have cast displacement at all, despite the spell not being in their spellbook or memorized.

My second issue is this: My players believe that feat and skill requirements can be dismissed in the same manner. And so, my question is how can this be? By virtue of that nugget of rediculousness, if this were true, then anyone could craft any item they like and never take any of the crafting feats since those feats are listed under prerequisites, and the Core states that all of those can be ignored by adding +5 to the DC.

Please tell me the system isn't this broken.