Jed De Lagged's page

OP here again.

Thanks for responding Hammerjack, you typed your response while I was typing mine, didn't mean to be rude!

In relation to Question A:

If using Melee Spells still provokes Attack of Opportunity (Shocking Grasp is also Somatic) then... why would they say Produce Flame can be Melee or Ranged if using a Ranged Spell Attack in Melee produces the same effect? I can't find anything that says there is an inherent penalty to using Ranged attacks in Melee, is it to accommodate specific effects or am I missing a rule somewhere?

OP answering their own question:

Spell attack rolls benefit from any bonuses or penalties to attack rolls, including your multiple attack penalty, but not any special benefits or penalties that apply only to weapon or unarmed attacks.

Ranged and thrown weapons each have a listed range increment...

Range increments are weapon specific, and therefore not applicable to spells.

I have a character that can cast Produce Flame. I have an opponent next to me that has the Attack of Opportunity reaction.

I cast Produce Flame with a range of Touch, making it a Melee Spell Attack.
Produce Flame has a Somatic component, giving the spell the Manipulate trait.

The opponent is able to respond with it's Attack of Opportunity reaction, because I'm using an action with the Manipulate trait.

Is this correct?

------------

Same character, same opponent, except the opponent is 45 feet away.

I cast Produce Flame, which has a range of 30 feet, target this opponent and make a Ranged Spell Attack with a -2 penalty because of the range increment.

Is this correct?

OP here.

Thanks for the discussion guys.

The reason I bring this up is because D&D 5e is VERY STRICT with it's ready rules.

For example, a rule in 5e reads something along the lines of "You can't trigger a readied action to an abstract concept." Read: Meta concept.

Pathfinder 2e made me double take when the restriction on Ready was pretty much just "Choose a trigger." Sweet, there's plenty of triggers in the book I can use without argument. In fact, the completely relaxed nature of P2e's Ready made me think this was a deliberate choice.

Many of the arguments above consist of the "Specific overrides General" approach. Which is fair, but I can't help but notice that these arguments never actually quote the General Rule.

Until Ready gets some errata, there is no issue with the trigger I am choosing, and no issue with triggering it identically to the feat I am stealing it from, as long as I meet the requirements for the trigger. Any arguments to this will also break the feat. If you disagree, please provide the RAW (and associated RAI if applicable).

The issue comes down to what happens to the attack I am moving away from.

The two closest rules I can find (which are also above):

If you choose a target that isn’t valid, such as if you thought a vampire was a living creature and targeted it with a spell that can target only living creatures, your spell fails to target that creature. If a creature starts out as a valid target but ceases to be one during a spell’s duration, the spell typically ends, but the GM might decide otherwise in certain situations.

Which is nice, but spell related. Either way... up to the GM. We can do better though.

You have to spend all the actions of an activity at once to gain its effects. In an encounter, this means you must complete it during your turn. If an activity gets interrupted or disrupted in an encounter (page 462), you lose all the actions you committed to it.

Nice! Means this is all acceptable by the rules, right? Not quite...

Various abilities and conditions, such as an Attack of Opportunity, can disrupt an action.

Specific things interrupt or disrupt, you can't just get a free interrupt or disrupt because whoops I'm not in range anymore.

[Edit]
You could also argue that an attack is an action, not an activity, and therefore not applicable to the above interruption or disruption effects
[/edit]

So then what happens? It's up to the GM because the deliberate ambiguity of the Ready rules. (I feel like I have to add that I say that with zero animosity - I love P2e!)

Sad face emoji. I'm not going to force my DM to deal with the mess above. I honestly thought this was how you emulated 5e's Dodge or other RPG's defensive maneuvers. Shields or bust I guess?

[edit]
Also, yes, the whole point was to make the enemy waste the first attack, step, and then attack again with -5 if he even had an action remaining. Holistically, it was more about openly saying "If you want to attack me, I'm going to seriously mess with your action economy, so just run off and play with the tank will you?"
[/edit]

That only work against a melee enemy

Disagree, if you ready a Stride to move behind a wall completely out of view in response to a ranged attack, it's the same kind of situation.

Reactions, unless specified, occur after the trigger and do not interrupt the trigger.

Can you please advise where exactly this rule appears? I've been looking for a while for something exactly like this (which of course would break the above) but have not been able to find anything.

On my turn, I choose the Ready action.

Ready: Choose a single action or free action you can use, and designate a trigger. Your turn then ends. If the trigger you designated occurs before the start of your next turn, you can use the chosen action as a reaction (provided you still meet the requirements to use it).

The single action I choose is a Step, or a Stride if I'm feeling lucky. I now choose a trigger. Fortunately, I don't need to get abstract, the trigger I'm after is right in the rule book.

Rogue Feat

Nimble Dodge

Trigger: A creature targets you with an attack and you can see the attacker.

I choose the trigger for my Ready action to be when a creature targets me with an attack and I can see the attacker. A creature targets me with an attack, and I can see them. I trigger my readied action, and step (or stride) out of target range for the attack. With the target now being invalid, the attack is disrupted and their action is spent.

This is how you're supposed to dodge in Pathfinder 2e, right? If so, this is super cool, just another reason to like Pathfinder 2e over D&D 5e.

Otherwise, please let me know what I'm missing to make this not work, and let me know where in the rules this is specified. Thanks!