Jay M's page

We compromised on basically Figurine of the Concealed Companion for power armor, and an eventual quest to get something similar to JARVIS for power armor, allowing basic movement and shooting.

"Computers are good at storing data, making calculations, manipulating and sorting information, performing rote tasks, and combining these tasks (often in the form of apps or programs). A computer may be set up to perform any of these functions in a general way, and it’s impossible to define everything a computer can possibly do."

This is clearly stating that the given examples (computer, robot, weapon, med-bed) are in no way a complete list of a computers potential.

You're correct that you can't define everything a computer can do. Unfortunately, the list of things a control module can control is pretty hard defined (I've listed them repeatedly, you can read my other posts).

Easy answer, a character makes a charge attack, the power armor itself does not. To preempt your obvious reply to this: a gun can make an attack on it's own because the control module specifically includes a turret allowing it to in the text.

There is a reason that a control module can control a vehicle: a vehicle is autonomous, as is a robot. Starships are specifically quantified as being controllable. A power armor is not.

I would rule an elevator as being similar enough to an on/off function to qualify. Hitting the call button is an on function. Hitting a floor is an on function. The default state is off. It's vastly less complex than making a non-autonomous suit of armor move and attack on it's own.

You're still not reading the text.

The first says it can control autonomous devices, which a power armor is not.

The second says it can control more complex devices that require skill checks or attack rolls, which a power armor does not.

The power armor having a gun means that at best attack rolls fall under this and the computer can shoot. Walking is a function outside of skill checks or attack rolls.

And even if it can do both, it's still moving at 15 ft and taking -4 to both ACs.

I feel like we're going around in circles. Guns can be automated by putting them into an included weapon turret mount - this is specified by the text.

That's not the same as controlling the power armor to raise it's arm, take aim, and fire. But even assuming that does work, it still doesn't give it the ability to make the power armor walk as that doesn't require an attack roll or ability check. On top of that it doesn't have proficiency with the power armor so it's half speed and -4 to both ACs.

You're right, it's not a definite list.

When in charge of a device that can already operate autonomously (such as a robot or another computer), the controlling computer can give orders to that device.

Doesn't apply, can't operate autonomously already.

hen operating a device that requires a skill check or attack roll (such as a computer hooked to a med-bed or weapon), the controlling computer can either allow a creature with authorized access to attempt a skill check or attack roll, or attempt the skill check or attack roll itself.

Doesn't apply, not a skill check or attack roll.

Sadly, power armor does not fit any of the conditions of the "such as".

A gun doesn't have any way to turn itself, aim, and fire and yet when you attach a control module (based on the presumption that this is what makes anti-personnel weapons) you get an autonomous turret that can do those things.

What? Yes it does, it's in the rules for control modules:

Such controlled objects are normally mounted to a specific location (such as a controlled longarm placed in a turret with line of sight to the computer’s terminal), in which case the mount and related components are included in the control unit price

I have no idea where you're getting the idea that it needs to be expanded to apply to other objects, that's nowhere in the rules as written.

Autonomous objects can be given a control module. Things with on/off can be given a control module. Weapons can be given a control module with an included turret mount. Computers can be given a control module. Starships can be given a control module.

By RAW, nothing else can be given a control module. I see no rules stating that this can be extended to anything else.

Jay M wrote:

I would assume that starships would fall under either autonomous or autopilot, so the computer would be able to make piloting checks with a skill bonus of 2.5x tier. Starship weapons would be an attack bonus equal to it's tier.

Neither of those gives the control module power armor proficiency (as it is neither autonomous nor a weapon) and walking is not a skill check anyway.

Autopilot starships are not a thing in Starfinder, every movement a ship makes needs a pilot. I still don't see how a control module attached to a suit of powered armor is in any way a different case than a control module attached to a starship, if one is legal the other must be.

(The only instance of the word Autopilot in the CRB is in the vehicle section, it doesn't apply to starships)

That's a pretty big logical leap. It specifically says that it controls ships, which makes it a very specific exception to the otherwise autonomous-only rule if autopilot on ships is indeed not a thing.

Wish you could edit:

I'd potentially be ok with it walking around as non-proficient: so half speed, EAC and KAC reduced by 4, off kilter and flat footed.

I don't think it's rules legal, and honestly it makes it even worse than I was already thinking it'd be.

I would assume that starships would fall under either autonomous or autopilot, so the computer would be able to make piloting checks with a skill bonus of 2.5x tier. Starship weapons would be an attack bonus equal to it's tier.

Neither of those gives the control module power armor proficiency (as it is neither autonomous nor a weapon) and walking is not a skill check anyway.

GM here! I have some issues:

The first issue is that I don't think this is remotely rules legal. Control modules state

When in charge of a device that can already operate autonomously (such as a robot or another computer), the controlling computer can give orders to that device. When operating a device that requires a skill check or attack roll (such as a computer hooked to a med-bed or weapon), the controlling computer can either allow a creature with authorized access to attempt a skill check or attack roll, or attempt the skill check or attack roll itself. When making its own check, the computer is assumed to have an attack bonus equal to its tier, proficiency with any weapon it controls, and a total skill bonus equal to 2-1/2 × its tier.

Emphasis mine. It specifies autonomy as being a requirement for giving commands. Things that are autonomous are listed as such, from what I can see. In the vehicle section anything that can be autonomous or controlled via autopilot is actually listed out.

Beyond that, it specifically calls out making skill checks or attack rolls for non-autonomous objects, but nothing else. Adding a turret to a gun as part of the control module cost makes sense, as that's an attack roll. It doesn't also add wheels and an engine to move it around.

Ignoring all that, we'll assume that I give the ok for the power armor to have sophisticated enough electronics that a control module can get it to walk in a straight line. This brings me to my second concern: balance.

Does it have proficiency, or does it take penalties? Having an AC equal to that which the armor provides a PC or NPC doesn't make sense: it's just a dumb not-bot putting one foot in front of another. Not only should it be taking flat footed penalties, it probably can't handle any sort of moderately difficult terrain. I'm not certain it can handle things like cords strewn about the floor or curbs on the side of the road. The remote computer is simply giving a command: left foot forward. Right foot forward. Repeat.

How does the gun even function? In most cases, the turret is attached to a computer and a gun, which aims itself. In this case, a computer in the PC's head is somehow aiming the power armor's arms remotely from a perspective it can't see? What happens if the PC doesn't have line of sight on either the armor or the target?

Does taking the effort to tell the AI to tell the PA what to shoot take an action? What type? What if you tell it where to move and who to shoot?

Does the PC's head AI make perception checks while walking it in formation with the party?

What if people shoot at the giant power armor standing out of cover? Does it have hardness? Is there a chance for them to blow out the control module? What if someone tries to climb into it, do the manual controls override the computer?

What if someone bull rushes it? It can't brace itself, so it's probably as difficult as shoving a loaded bookshelf hard enough to topple over. Can the control module stand it back up?

I'm not super worried about it throwing off the encounter balance because I think this thing is as worthless as (I apparently can't finish that statement), but it's sure as hell going to bog the table down.

Lastly: how in the hell do I deal with this as a GM? If you go down a hallway too tight for it, do you leave it behind? Do I roll a percentage chance for it to be stolen? Even if the thief can't open it, they can just toss it onto a dolly and wheel it off. "Let's go recover my power armor!" might be a fun subplot... once.

Does every firefight dissolve into the baddies shooting at the giant power armor that isn't standing in cover, unless there's a vastly more obvious target?

I'm all for cool stuff, but this kind of screams "headache". Hiring an NPC to follow the party around wearing it when the PC doesn't need it on seems like a much more elegant solution. Hell, Figurine of the Concealed Companion seems like a much more elegant solution.

Awesome, thank you!

I placed an order yesterday and it defaulted to an old card. I updated my subscription payment and I believe I updated the payment for the third adventure path, but I can't tell if it's going to ship because it still says that it failed payment on the old card. Am I good to go? The only payment option in my account now should be the correct one.

Hey James,

Thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions!

I have three questions regarding adamantine:

Would it be effected by normal rust? My initial instinct says "no", since there's no iron in it.

What about magical? Gauntlets of Rust or a rust monster?

Lastly, would alloys made of adamantine (glaucite was the particular one my group was discussing) be able to be separated into their base components by a blacksmith?