Jack of Shadows's page

OK,

Where the devil are the rest of the rules for the Fame checks!?! All the adventure says is roll 1d20 and add 60. That' it. W... T... F...!!!

I can't find anything else on this other than another member of these boards asking the same question without reply.

Really frustrated as I'm supposed to run this adventure this afternoon and haven't a clue what to do with this first section.

[EDIT]

Found it! For anyone else looking it's in the last paragraph on Pg12 under the Xin Rising heading.

Hi Folks,

Am I missing something or does the Investigator talent, Unconventional Inspiration, have absolutely no function at all? It seems to imply that Inspiration doesn't work with all skills. Yet having read and re-read Inspiration there's nothing there that implies a limit to which skills it will work with. It doesn't even say it won't work with unskilled skills. So needless to day I'm a bit mystified.

JoS.

Check out the soundtrack for Black Sails. It has a very unique sound that would work well.

JoS.

What kind of alchemist are you making?

Artillerist/Poisoner essentially. No archetypes, just straight half elf alchemist. Combat will focus mostly on bombs and poison applied via blowgun.

OK,

Playing an Alchemist for the first time and the nature of Extracts is raising all sorts of questions. Chief among them, can an alchemist use metamagic feats with extracts? It seems to be a no-brainer but the way the feats are written would seem to say no.

On a tangent, if an Alchemist can't use MM feats then what are some good feats for an alchemist TO take?

JoS.

Hmmm....

I vote Manticore. Really mess with the player. That and maybe introduce the idea that Undrella was messing around behind his back.

JoS.

I am such a twisted GM.

Hey Folks,

I'm building a Gnoll Barbarian entering the adventure path midway and I want to get a Hyaenodon for his mount. Any suggestions on a reasonable cost?

JoS.

OK,

What happens to the Jump spell under Pathfinder? As the skill it modifies is now rolled into Acrobatics does the spell get renamed Acrobat? Does it add +10 to Acrobatics or +10 to Acrobatics only when performing leaps?

I ask because I'm converting a certain encounter with a bard on the run and said bard ends up with a bonus that used to cover only one skill (jump) now covering three skills (jump, balance, and tumble) required to flee the PC's.

JoS

OK,

I like everything Squirrelloid has done here except he's missed two critical issues. Monks still can't hit worth a damn at high levels and they are still dependent upon multiple high ability scores.

JoS

IMPORTANT NOTE

What ever form the ability for monks to add weapon and/or armor enhancements takes it should NOT take up a body slot. The Monk should not take a penalty to gain the same bonuses as other classes. Hand wraps should be able to be worn under gloves. Bangles should be able to be worn under (over?) gauntlets.

Someone mentioned that a Monk's unarmed strikes are more than just their hands and that hand wraps wouldn't convey the bonuses to all the body parts. Simply, we just view the "wraps" as a focus that conveys the abilities to the Monk's whole body. Admittedly this may lead to a monk doing +3 vorpal tongue strikes but to me that just sounds like the beginnings of a really neat villain for my campaign.

JoS

So,

I think we are starting to see what I felt has been the problem with the monk all along, the fact that they cannot really gain the same kind of bonuses to their unarmed strikes as others can with their weapons without paying a ridiculous cost.

I have been working on a way for them to do this, that is, apply weapon enhancements (such as +1 and flaming) to their fists at a reasonable price. The tripping point was not the idea, but the in game implementation. I thought of some sort of hand wrapping, rings, or maybe bracers, but these are really going off the beaten path, as they are not, in and of themselves, weapons.

I am hoping to get something like this into the Beta. Thoughts?

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Well,

I don't like that correcting the BAB is simply off the table but that will have to be my private burning coal to swallow. Allowing the Monk access to the weapon and armor enchantments that every other class enjoys is one step towards parity.

However, to compare the Monk with the Rogue as you seem to be doing something must done to compensate for the fact that a rogues primary stat is Dex (a heavy combat influencing stat) and a Monk's is Wisdom (heavily NOT a combat influencing stat.) Allow the Monk to add their Wis mod. to to-hit rolls (but not to damage as that is already accommodated for.) This greatly reduces the Monk's dependency on multiple attributes and allows them to compete at the same level as the Rogue in combat.

Something else that should be looked at however is the Monk's secondary role. Clerics and Rogues have a lower BAB because they have auxiliary roles in the party structure. A cleric heals, a rogue has all it's trapfinding and subterfuge abilities, a monk.... What does a monk do outside of a fight? Are they the party courier? All that speed must be useful for something.

JoS

(As an aside, antagonistic thread titles like this one kinda set me off... which might account for some of my earlier defensiveness. My apologies if things were taken that way.)

Heh,

I'm in marketing so I tend to over compensate when I want to catch people's attention. However, it seems to have worked as it has generated some real discussion on the problems and possible fixes for the Monk. I'm especially pleased that people who are better able to illustrate the problems than I am have joined the discussion (Squirrelloid I'm looking at you.)

JoS

Obtuse: not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.

Jack, I suggest that if your real intention is to debate and get a clearer indication of Jason’s thinking, you might do a lot better if you dropped the insults. Might make you come across as less of a prick too. Win/win.

Thanks Mothman,

I do know what obtuse means but I wasn't using it as an insult. It was just a contraction of "you're not considering all the details". To Jason and anyone else who felt I was being less than cordial I apologize.

JoS.

@Jack of Shadows

You may want to reread pages 2 and 3 of the PDF: History and Design Goals.

Keep in mind that if you tear down the Monk's BAB and Flurry, it alters the role of the Monk, negates the need for some other things the Monk would normally use, and would probably require taking from someplace else to accommodate this large power increase (we aren't talking about +1 hp/level here).

Changing the Monk's role would break the point of using THIS Monk for the roles it was used, and had PrCs and Feats from splatbooks created for. This is one of those "steps too far" that 'Improve the Game' doesn't cut it for changing.

Might I suggest making a PrC, or giving the Fighter a feat chain specifically for an unarmed/unarmored Martial Artist, as opposed to this mystical mage killer.

Almost missed this post but I wanted to reply.

Thanks Kaisoku,

I hadn't actually considered all the previous PrC's and the cascade effect the change would engender. However, I think that of all the base classes the Monk is so inherently flawed something drastic IS called for. It doesn't have a "role" so you're not really changing something. I don't think the complexity of Mr. Bulmahn's revisions are warranted if the only issue is legacy problems. I think players (aka customers) would rather have a core class they can play than one that works well with old PrC's they wouldn't use anyway. If people aren't playing Monks, PrC's for Monks don't make much sense.

JoS

First, how does a rogue or cleric end up with a higher to-hit bonus than the monk (since they all have access to enchanted weapons) and why wouldn't they get access to all of the elemental damage adds? Second, what difference would the elemental damage adds make? Compare a flame burst rapier (1D6 + 1d6 fire) to a 12th level unarmed monk. Same damage output. At 20th level the monk is doing 2D10 points of damage an attack which is probably more than the rogue is doing.

A cleric or rogue is likely to have an enchanted weapon with a to-hit bonus and a Monk cannot add weapon enhancements to their unarmed attacks. Yes, they can enchant a monk weapon but that is a secondary weapon for them. How much of your characters resources do you spend on your back-up weapon? Also take into consideration the rogue's sneak attack and the cleric's buff spells.

As for damage you'll note that I was arguing to leave it as is. I don't think that it is overpowered when considered with the damage potential of the other second line classes.

JoS

Monks are support and mobility combatants, generally speaking, useful in moving around the battlefield to assist with problems. In this regard, they gain a number of abilities that allow them to work without the aid of others, which many of the other, straight fighter classes, lack to one degree or another.

Except that a Monk who moves away from the support and protection of the party gets gooned and taken down due to their poor AC. I can't argue the Monks mobility but it is often not a factor unless they are running away or trying to catch a single target. A monk away from the party is almost always overwhelmed and outmatched operating on their own.

Telling me that this is just a band aid, without any playtesting, because they do not get a full BAB, is not very helpful to my development. They might not be perfect for the role that I see them in (at least not yet), but I am looking to work within the system as opposed to just demanding a redesign of some of their core statistics.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

First, I didn't make any demands. You're just getting defensive because I didn't like what you did. That's not what this is about. I want to debate what you've done, not condemn it. I think the critical thing is that you have decided what a Monk should be and failed to ask yourself what do "players" want a Monk to be. I think this is the specific element that has been overlooked since the inception of the Monk in D20.

JoS

Changing a monk's BAB is not in the cards, just like it is not for any other class. Changing BAB monkey's with a lot of statistics (especially for the monk with flurry). Truth be told, the monk is not a class that is designed specifically to stand up toe-to-toe with a fighter. They serve slightly different roles.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

I'm sorry Jason but you're just being obtuse. The changes from 3.0 to 3.5 increased the flurry of blows ability until the extra attacks were equal to the Monk's 3/4 BAB. Why? because it was realized that in a fight the Monk needed more. Unfortunately this just lead to a Monk that missed more often. You have bolted on all sorts of bells and whistles so that the Monk "almost" has a full BAB but with added complexity and bookkeeping. Why did you do this Jason if you didn't feel the Monk needed to be a better combatant?

Even as a second line combatant (which is absurd for someone who has spent their lives learning to fight) the Monk fails. Clerics, Rogues, and Bards can all purchase armor and weapons which can improve their AC and attack bonuses; the Bard cannot. A rogue (someone who is generally self-trained and lives by their wits is a better combatant then a Monk. They will have a higher AC and a higher to-hit bonus. Plus given sneak attack they will, more often than not, do more damage than a Monk.

Changing the BAB to a full progression affects two things; Flurry of Blows and Damage Output. Flurry of Blows is an easy fix, put it back to an extra attack with all attacks at -2. Works just like the Rapid Shot feat chain. Damage output doesn't need to change at all because the Monk doesn't get access to all the elemental damage adds that every single other class has available (i.e. flaming, shocking, freezing etc.) thanks to magic items.

JoS

P.S. I may be coming off as a bit of a prick but that is not my intent. I really want to debate this and get a clear sense of what Mr. Bulmahn is thinking (and probably to lobby a bunch to change his thinking.) ;)

OK,

I've really liked what Pathfinder has been doing but the new Monk just doesn't cut it. Admittedly there has been some attempt to correct previous failings but a Monk without a full BAB and only a D8 hit die will always fail to compete with other melee combatants.

The ki pool changes miss more often (aka flurry of blows) to misses even more often. Add this to Maneuver Training and it seems they are bending over backwards to do everything BUT increase the BAB. Why make such a complicated system for such a simple fix.

JoS

I explained it this way:

1. Zellara's deck is stolen.
2. Her son steals it back.
3. Lamm has Zellara's son killed for stealing from him.
4. Zellara uses the deck to find Lamm.
5. Zellara goes to confront Lamm (with the deck on her person) and is killed.
6. The deck and cards the players encounter when they meet Zellara are ILLUSIONS!

Made sense to me.

JoS

OK,

Thought I'd take a stab here. I think there are three key problems that if fixed also cover the lesser issues.

The first is BAB which is an easy fix, just kick it up to a full progression. This makes the Monk hit more often and as such increases the monks damage output. This also kicks the Monk's HD up to a D10 per Pathfinder's BAB/HD parity.

The second is attribute spread. As it stands a monk needs too many high attributes to compete. My first suggestion is that a monk adds their Wis bonus to hit and damage when fighting unarmed or using a special monk weapon. This takes away the need for high strength but without turning it into a dump stat (encumbrance still relies on Strength). The bump in HD above alleviates the need for high Con and Dex is really already compensated for in the core design given that the Wisdom bonus is added to AC.

The third problem is monks and magic items. The fix for this is relatively simple as well. First allow normal clothes and robes (AC 0) to be enchanted as armor. Secondly, create a set of items called "hand wraps". Hand wraps are treated as weapons for the purpose of enchantment but transfer their enchantment to the unarmed attacks of the individual wearing them. This now means the Monk has to spend his gold on the same magic items that any other warrior class would.

I think these three things balance out the monk quite nicely and should allow them to hold their own akin to a fighter of equal level. They loose out a little on defense against normal attacks but gain significantly in resisting spell attacks so I think that balances out.

In any case let me know what you think.

This came up during my past playtest session and is more a question than a comment.

Which feats, if any, can be used with the Hand of the Apprentice (HotA) power? I've ruled for the moment that they cannot at all but that's really just a way to dodge the question for moment. HotA seemed exceptionally effective during my first session when wielded by an Elven Wizard with a 20 Int and I didn't think the character should also get to add Weapon Focus and other melee based feats to its use.

JoS

Well,

From actual playtest I can tell you it is very powerful at 1st level. The Elven Wizard in my group has a 20 INT and carries a longsword which has proved exceptionally deadly used with Hand of the Apprentice during our first session. I know it will come down as levels rise but at 1st level it is astonishingly effective.

JoS

I little broken. Too much of a boost for lighter armor.

I like the idea of dodge being a non-combat feat, so you just get a +1 dodge bonus to AC.

There's another version from races of the wild or something that grants a +2 AC against all attacks, but only if you move 40 feet in a round, and can function as the old dodge feat for pre-reqs. (Expeditious dodge I think? can't recall).

Yes,

I thought the +3 might be a little too much but then I realized that this is a Combat Feat. In order to get this bonus you have to forgo using any other Combat Feat that round.

Does this balance out? I don't know, I haven't tried it in play. The concept just struck me because it tweaked Dodge a little and threw a bone to the light armored fighters. I suppose it could become an issue when Wizards and Sorcerers start picking it up as their only combat feat. Though even there I have to wonder if they would find it worth the feat slot.

JoS

P.S. Yes, I am a big fan of Roger Zelazny. His passing was quite a blow.

OK,

Can someone translate the description for Dimensional Steps under the Conjuration School abilities for me. I don't understand the effect as it is described.

Do you only teleport 5 ft?

Do you teleport any distance but pop into every 5 ft you travel stuttering through the whole distance?

Do you teleport any distance up to max so long as the total distance is divisible by 5'? 20' or 25' is OK but 22' is no good.

Sadly confused.

JoS

OK,

Just throwing this in as an idea. What if Dodge worked exactly like it does in the alpha but with the following modifiers:

+3 when wearing Light Armor or less
+2 when wearing Medium Armor
+1 when wearing Heavy Armor

Opinions???

JoS

I always figured Sense Motive should be a part of Diplomacy. If you are sensitive to the nuances of others' emotions, you can generally play along with them to make a good impression.

I don't like folding Diplomacy + Intimidate. Not only are they different skills, but they belong to different concepts.

No,

They're not. Both are means of negotiation. The only difference is the leverage used to gain compliance. When I use Diplomacy, I'm negotiating using the impetus of beneficial gain. When I use Intimidate, I'm negotiating using the impetus of detrimental loss.

Two sides, same coin.

JoS

Hey Paizo folks,

Will Pathfinder ship in the polybags ala Dungeon/Dragon or will it come in carboard slipcases akin to those used by Amazon?

Jack

What can I say,

WotC just shot my dog right in front of my eyes. I can't believe the emotional reaction I'm having to this. The total disgust and outrage I have towards WotC right now defies description.

I'd like to say that I'll really look forward to the Pathfinder books but by being limited to only OGL material (ie. PHB, DMG, MM and EPH) I just don't see them living up to the full spectrum that Dungeon was able to provide.

I have this strange feeling that this will be looked back upon as the day D&D died.

Anyone know where I can get a "R.I.P. Dungeon" armband? I want to buy a tonne of them and sell them at GenCon this year.

Jack.

Hi Folks,

Just about to start Lords of Oblivion (ala the new HC) and I noticed a small problem. The adventure says to award experience to the players as if they had defeated Celeste in combat if they rescue her from the painting in Oblivion (room O14). Which would be great but Celeste does not appear in Appendix 4. So how the devil do I figure out the experience she is worth and what the heck are her stats if she decides to stick it out with the players? Has there been an errata for the HC yet?

Jack

My party,

Didn't have too much of a problem with this encounter. Initially because the party's scout was a Silver Dragon hatchling (immune to Cold). And secondly because the Cleric of Wee Jas animated the Bulette they'd encountered on the road as a skeleton. Probably not common occurances with most parties.

Jack

I had a similiar problem,

I know my players would never miss a clue like that so I changed his name to Lord Orvius Vhalantru. Seems to have worked. I've also threaded him into one of the players background as the former patron of her adventuring parents before she was orphaned. She's going to have a very interesting moment in LoO when she discovers a pair of statues that bear an amazing family resemblance.

Jack