IshmaelWolf's page

speed : When making a full-attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +3 bonus.

Returning: This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature's next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can't catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, telekinesis; Price +1 bonus.

Compare to
Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already.

Strong evocation (plus aura of stored spell); CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Price +1 bonus.

The listed caster level for returning and speed is the level of the item not a prereq...

I'll give you that one. I misread the entries.

I still disagree that simply raising a DC by +5 allows a character to ignore a spell requirement for a spell they are 5+ levels away from being able to cast.

Not to mention, a 25% chance to ignore Sneak Attacks and Criticals is worth waiting until level 13. Or you could just adventure like a normal PC and gather enough money to buy the items you want, which in my experience is always faster than item creation.

Not to mention the absurdness this brings by this reasoning returning is harder to put on a weapon than Haste and lets be honest a +1 should be availble before a +3.

<sigh> Both Returning and SPEED have a Caster Level listed in their requirements. And don't forget the quotes you guys love so much: "...spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed)."

Actually he says in that FAQ that you could even make a 3rd level pearl even though you dont have the ability to cast 3rd level spells.

More over if it is a prereq its still just as ignorable as anything other than feat for most items with a simple +5

Because a Pearl of Power does not have any specfic spell requirements (i.e. no specific spell that you must be able to cast.)

@Jedorian, i posted a while back, with a link to Paizo's Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PRD for short, and it is updated with the latest errata and FAQ) and I've marked the important bit in Bold and Italics.

** spoiler omitted **...

All you did was quote exactly the same thing I did, except you included the parts about time and money, which are not items of contention.

And the ability to make items below you maximum ability has always been part of 3rd edition, and is also not an item of contention.

Unless of course you as stated by Sean add +5 to the DC. The FAQs apply to all printings of the books not just to the ones out when they occured.

The FAQ in question was about a specific item, a Pearl of Power, and was talking about item caster level not the caster level of spells used to make the item, which as I just pointed out is our real argument.

If, for example, you are a 8th level sorceror (technically capable of casting Ice Storm), but you do not have Ice Storm on your spell list, you can add +5 to the DC to make a Wand of Ice Storm.

But if you are a 7th level sorceror (incapable of casting 4th level spells), you cannot make a Wand of Ice Storm.

Ok. I had told myself I wouldn't quote anything, because Jedorian had already quoted everything. I only created this account to back him up, when I saw the ridiculous comments on this thread.

But before I use quotes, I should point out that somewhere along the line, the exact definition of Caster Level got lost. Jedorian's argument was that you cannot raise the DC of the crafting to make up for a spell that you are not of the appropriate level to cast. Somewhere along the line, the rest of you chose to change that to item caster level, because that is friendlier to your argument.

If a spell requires a 4th level spell be cast, you must be capable of casting 4th level spells to make the item.

Core Rulebook, 4th printing, page 549:

" Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions.
These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created.
Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be
known by the item’s creator (although access through another
magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic
item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not
meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation
feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spelltrigger
and spell-completion magic items without meeting
their spell prerequisites.
While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note
that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of
the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the
item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than
her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to
cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can
place spells in items at a higher level than normal."

They specifically mentioned that you can make lower level items, which would imply you cannot make higher level ones. Otherwise, why mention it.

CL does matter but it matters as a method of setting the DC not as a prereq for the item.

Wrong. CL means Caster Level, not DC. CL determines the CASTER LEVEL necessary to make the item.

What I see from the posts in this thread are clear quotes from the text showing that Caster Level does, in point of fact, matter. Then I see a whole bunch of people re-quoting the same tiny snippet of text that they erroneously believe proves the opposite. I will not quote the entire text, because it has already been quoted and ignored. Kiddo.

The +5 to DC is for other things, like a +1 frost sword. A 5th level wizard can make a +1 frost sword even though they couldn't possibly know the ice storm spell and aren't CL 8 (the CL of that item).

Once again, you are arguing text over common sense. And on top of that, you are only quoting the text that supports your argument and you are ignoring the rest. I will not quote or clarify, because you will not listen.

The fact is, working this type of loophole is just another way to turn D&D into a video game (cheat codes and all). There was a time when you could find gaming stores and organized campaigning in every town. Those went away right around the time people like you decided winning RPGs was more important than playing them.

IshmaelWolf wrote:

If you want to make a wand of fireballs, you should be at least of a level capable of casting fireball.

Bad example, since Craft Wand has a prerequisite of 5th level caster to take.

However, a wand of ice storm, on the other and, can be made at 5th level, by the crafter taking a +5 DC.

Fireball is a 3rd level spell, meaning a 5th level wizard can cast it. I know it can be hard to follow, but a 5th level wizard is a 5th level caster.

Your argument is invalid.

@Ascalaphus - There was plenty of rudeness on this thread before Jedorian commented. You are only upset about Jedorian's rudeness, because he disagreed with you and it ruffled your feathers.

@Jedorian - You are absolutely right. If you want to make a wand of fireballs, you should be at least of a level capable of casting fireball. I will not quote books, or rules lawyer to explain. It is simple commonsense to keep the game balanced. Anyone who says otherwise has obviously only sat on one side of the table.