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In an attempt to break from the typical Dark Ages/European fantasy, I've decided to run a game loosely based on the mythology and history of India, China, Japan, the Middle East, and the indigenous people of New Zealand (the Maori). This exotic mish-mash, in my opinion, would inject some new and unique color into my usually Euro-centric fantasy games.

I've been stymied by two hurdles, though.

First, the campaign is low on magical items. Potions are not a dime a dozen, and things like "+5 Flaming Unholy Greataxe" are extremely rare. In this setting, owning a magical item is something that is normally reserved only for the most powerful, intrepid people.

Second, I'm not allowing sorcerers, wizards, bards, druids, and things like that. What I want to do, however, is to institute a shape-shifting class, something that allows the PC to choose a number of totem animals that they can change in to and draw abilities from. For example, someone aligned with tigers would be supernaturally adept at stalking and natural camouflage, while someone aligned with a hawk would have phenomenal speed and senses.

My questions to you are these:

1.) Would severely limiting the number of PC magical items unfairly impede their ability to survive?

2.) Are there any shape-shifting D&D variant classes close to what I'm looking for?

Any help would be appreciated.


First, allow me to state how impressed and delighted am I by all of you here in the Paizo forums. You have the kind of eloquence and role-play savvy I had only thought possible from the Steve Jackson forums, specifically the "GURPS Traveller" section. And you have all been very helpful!

@Disenchanter (& others)

I took a lot of ideas from the affiliation section, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for. Affiliations, patrons, and guilds seemed too restrictive - the PCs pay dues and complete quests to get a +2 bonus on Charisma checks or a meager allowance of supplies with their allies. It seemed, to me, like a tool the DM could use to shut the players up and keep them happy so that they would get back on the railroad tracks, short of having Railman the Inevitable, Kolyarut of Plot Movement, descend from the heavens and tell them to get on with the quest.

So I expanded the system a little - think of it as a younger, more robust version of it's PHBII grandpappy.

@Disenchanter (specifically)

It seems that many people are thinking this system is a set-in-stone series of rules. Not at all - it's merely a loose guide for DMs to make influencing powerful people and making marks on the world through other vehicles than adventuring doable but realistically difficult for the players, to let them take a piece of the world and make it their own. It should not limit, only aid.

If, in one of my games, the PCs spent the money and rallied the people to build a church (or if they built it themselves, even), I'd let them go on with their bad selves - unless, of course, they were building a church to an antagonistic deity, or building a church in the middle of the city (this would require them to be in good standing with city officials ala Reputation).

If, however, they built a church for a churchless village with all the space in the world - and managed to find ministers and such to keep it stocked - I'd give them bonus reputation points for it. My system should not stop the PCs from doing something conceivable (building a church in a town that wants a church would only require the PCs to be willing), but should only measure their "good/bad standing" within certain circles, allowing them to go above and beyond the usual PC skulduggery. Building a church, as you said, would make them shine like Rick Ross in the eyes of the clergy, allowing them to possible ascend the ranks as crusaders, military leaders, or ranking bishops later on.

@Set

I think I see what you're getting at. Whirlwind tour campaigns would not be well suited to having the PCs build their own little empires. Still, the reputation system could work well for it, allowing the PCs to gain notoriety as traveling adventurers and possibly opening up opportunities for them to adventure at the behest of foreign organizations.

The system I outlined is by no means good for every single game - only for those that would support PCs having their own little holdings for the purposes of RP flavor, role play bonuses, and for the sheer pleasure of them having something to call their own.

If this system would limit your ability to enjoy the game you're in, obviously you shouldn't use it.

@Saedren

It's all about player satisfaction. If a group of PCs wants Fame and Glory to be more about their accomplishments and not so much about getting more gold to buy more pluses, letting them take part in the flow of the world and its all of its facets is an excellent idea.

A PC who knows that the DM will allow him to form his own guild of thieves is the kind of PC that goes into a dungeon with actual realistic motivations. Maybe he's looking for gold to impress potential recruits and hire mentors to teach his band of would-be brigands. Perhaps he's hoping to stumble across some kind of subversive, magical item that will allow his operations remain hidden from the eyes of the guard.

There could be PCs that just like dungeons for dungeons' sake, too, and there's nothing wrong with that.

@Pax Veritas

That's exactly the kind of sh-t I'm going for, except only moreso.

Just last night, my group of RPG noobs found a ship converted into living quarters for a dock-dwelling group of thieves, racketeers, and exotortionists. They asked if they could fix up the ship and make it their own, fully expecting me to say, "no."

I said, "Sure - make some rolls to find a ship building, hire him and his men, and maybe find someone who can forge some ownership papers."

They stared at me, wide-eyed and unbelieving, and asked, "So, if we want to take this ship up the coast and start exploring little-known islands or start trading in spices, we can do that? We could get money, turn our ship into a war frigate, and hire it out as a mercenary naval vessel?"

I said, "If you take the time and effort to get all the official stuff figured out and build up enough 'street cred' with local politicians and nobles, absolutely."

I think I may have broken a few of their minds as they had visions of owning a magical galleon with ballistae that shot lightning, crewed by rugged, swashbuckling lizard-man pirates, bristling with griffon-riding knights brushing their mounts on the flight deck. So long as it doesn't interfere with the party's ability to have fun, I'm all for it.

Love the plane-traveling demon ship, by the way. I may have to use that one.


@Ghettowedge

As Pax Veritas said, Ghetto, it doesn't HAVE to mean putting up the swords. As well as you, I wouldn't really want to play a game that was nothing more than taxing the peasantry.

By letting the PCs make their mark, however, it changes the way the game is played. There's battle and conquest, but of a different kind. The PCs might not be delving into dungeons, but perhaps pirates are attacking their trade ships, and after they witness the failure of the nation's Navy, they decide to go for a little pirate-killing goodness. Perhaps a competitor has forged papers in their names authorizing illegal purchases, and they must rush to investigate and secure their innocence.

It can also be used in conjunction WITH hack and slash gaming. Just because the party's fighter is first knight of an order, it doesn't mean he has to retire. Having elite fighters at his beck and call, as well as being in the good graces of those the knights defend, would just open up new resources for the party to use when they travel into the lions den.

Let's say a player went above and beyond and became a high-priest of Heironeus. As a reward for such role play and focus, I'd let him have a group of twenty or so low-level clerics following him around, hanging out in back and having cure spells ready when the heroes-proper emerge from the dungeons.

Gameplay preference aside, however, I was more wondering whether the systems seemed as though it worked or not.

@Pax

I know exactly what you mean - you seem to be a kindred spirit.

Ah, yes - Mr. Gygax, who supported role playing and world building before endless rules-lawyering and combat became the norm. The creators of fourth edition should be ashamed at themselves!

I'm wagging my finger at the computer screen. I hope they see it, because I'm doing it as hard as I can.

I have to say, though - for a down-and-dirty combat/war game, 4th Ed. isn't too bad. I was actually thinking of using it to run a "Behind Enemy Lines" campaign, where things like non-combat skills aren't really necessary.


Hopefully this helps:

Spell resistance is something that represents the pulp-fantasy trope of Big Bad Monster or Big Bad Wizard being able to revel in the cathartic pleasure of smirking and/or maniacally laughing in the vein of an anime villain - the heroes attack him with magic, it simply doesn't work, and so he gloats. Many fantasy stories speak of creatures who have immunity to smaller sorceries and magic, but never give much of a reason. I've always imagined that, at some point, BBM or BBW (which, if you remember, is "Big Bad Wizard," not "Big Beautiful Woman") becomes such a universally renowned bad-ass that existence itself recognizes his Chuck-level bad-assery and so removes him from the pattern of the normal mortal coil, thus rendering him immune to certain things by default.

It's an abstract idea. Fantasy authors (unless they write for Wizards) do not come up with an idea about numbers and caster-level checks. Rather, it represents this ineffable idea of someone just being so magical that magic recognizes them as kin and doesn't hurt them. Because it is ineffable, I like to describe it as being ineffable. To me, spell resistance is a numeric manifestation of an abstract idea - like the sorcerer who causes flowers to wilt when he passes by, or how a demon lord is accompanied by the sound of screaming souls.

I hope I'm making sense.

My party recently came across a drow beguiler who was posing as the lord's advisor and manipulating him (I hate the concept of drow, so I called him an "unseelie fey sabotuer"). The wizard cast scorching ray on him, failed the caster level check, and so I described the dark elf as simply "batting away" the bolt of fire.

My suggestion is to leave the description of spell resistance mysterious and strange. Rather than saying, "spell resistance reflects your magic", say something like "the creature seems to be anathema to your magic - perhaps this has something to do with his magical nature/sphincter-puckering evil."

If your PCs, however, begin griping about how they want to know everything so they can just finish the adventure and buy more pluses, simply say, "the enemy's power level is over nine-thousand, so magic won't work on him."


The way I see it, a lot of adventurers wouldn't want to keep delving into dungeons when they're tenth level. Sure, it's good money, but there has to be more to life. As one of my jaded NPCs said to the party (he was an eighth level fighter who had been adventuring for fifteen years):

"Adventuring isn't all fame, glory, and scantily clad women - you don't bathe for weeks at a time, all kinds of bugs and diseases are everywhere, and after two months in the field, you can't tell whether someone started as a man or a woman. And do you know how many times I've sh*t myself? Drink some dirty water, get surprised by a monster in the swamp, don't have time to take a squat... that's what adventuring boils down to: dirt, disease, and diarrhea."

As such, I like to provide my PCs with the ability to do things that don't revolve around monster killing. I've had PCs start trade companies, build the Renaissance equivalent of the Job Corps, and even take up leadership of a country's most powerful organized crime family. There's something more fun about adventuring when you're doing it not to complete someone else's quest, but when you're doing it to secure the interest of your personal ambitions.

Now, D&D doesn't have many rules governing PC enterprises. There's the leadership feat, but other than that, everything is pretty much done through role play. But, because I don't want to give the PCs power they don't work for, and because I want them to be able to actually use what resources they have, I have devised a system for empire building that I would like people here to critique.

First, it starts with PC reputation, because PCs need to have a bit of oomph behind them before Joe Shmuckatelli will seek employment with them. Reputation is written on a 1-30 scale, and bonus reputation can be awarded through excellent role play or completing a quest in an original way. Before a PC can influence a certain organization in a "leadership" capacity, he must have reputation equal to the CR of the organization's most powerful leading member plus the organizations resources and connections.

For example: if the party wants to insinuate themselves as ranking members or allies of a thieves guild whose leader is a sixth-level beguiler and whose contacts span the entire city (as well as boasting total assets of 10,000 gp), they must first have reputation equal to 10 (6 for the leader, 2 for city-wide influence [if they work in an official capacity, this increases by another 2], and 2 for their assets). There are, however, different kinds of reputations, outlined below. For this kind of organization, the PCs would have to have the relevant [u]Local[/u] reputation.

The first kind of reputation is overall reputation - this is a party's notoriety/renown for their "adventuring" deeds.

Local: City, village, town, monastery, etc. Limited to a specific small area.

Regional: Country, kingdom, tribal network, expansive organization.

Legendary: Continent, world, empire.

Planar: Specific extra-planar entities, gods, otherworldly organizations.

Reputation can be received any number of ways. Helping the local healer may garner local reputation, and rolling particularly high on perform checks (using the guidelines in the PHB) will garner reputation. A series of Perform checks around 10 will give a bard a reputation of a "decent singer", and a series of perform checks over 30 made in many different locales may attract the attention of an erinyes flautist.

The second kind of reputation is specific reputation, which deals primarily with organizations and offices.

Local: A fisherman's guild, a seamstress, a group of lumberjacks or miners.

Regional: A knightly order, the military, local officials, small trade companies, a local church.

Legendary: A universally feared conclave of assassins, a far-reaching merchant organization, an entire faith, an emperor.

Planar: The curators of Boccob's library, The Lady of Pain, a roaming platoon of hound archon paladins, a council of devas.

So, two kinds of reputations. Every action the party takes that could increase their reputation may give them 1, possible two points in their category. Working for the local traders to help clear a road of bandits would give the party a +1 reputation with that organization. Traveling to Acheron to recover the blessed mace of a mythical cleric might give upwards of a +5 when dealing with every member of that faith.

Now, there's also notoriety in there as well. Doing something against the will of another organization will subtract reputation from that particular group or region. To use the previous example, allying with the bandits and running a protection racket against traders will make it less likely that the PCs will be able to get buddy-buddy with the local militia, but more likely that they will be welcomed by other local bands of brigands.

So, through the course of the adventure, the PCs get reputation. If they get high enough reputation, it ALLOWS them the ATTEMPT to start their own businesses and such. If the party has reputation with local trade guilds, for example (by working for them or paying extortionist licensing fees), they will be able to become licensed merchants, will be able to use their money to buy their own ships, and will be recognized in ports as traders, allowing them to buy, transport, and sell goods. If their deeds have been martially legendary, they may be able to assume ranking positions in a mercenary company, re-unite a fracture knightly order, or have enough renown to form their own military force (nothing too big, at first - a group of a couple hundred soldiers). If they are known as magically savvy, they will be able to receive authorization from the government to build their own wizard's academy. Quests then start to revolve around their personal dealings as well as trouncing bad guys, and having their businesses gives them bonuses that will give them more opportunities and better supplies to help them along the way.

Reputation only ALLOWS the players to role play as though they are trying to start a business. It does not just GIVE them stuff, but it lets them take the initiatve to do it.

So... what do you all think?


It's one thing to haphazardly throw in monsters with little reason as to why they are where they are. It is a completely different thing to actually use monsters in such a story-centric capacity.

The tribe of primitive hunters is awesome. I like the idea of how they approach a cloistered city filled with women with superstitious dread - not only is this believable, as primitive cultures would, in history, think that anything different was supernatural (some natives of South America thought that the Spaniards were gods, after all), but it will also give your PCs pause and they will approach the situation with trepidation.

A friend of mine ran a game along these lines. The PCs were all 1st level common3ers (they were thirteen to sixteen when the game started), and their village was attacked by "demons"... which were, in fact, goblins wearing stilts dressed up in costumes holding torches.

Also, the utopia as a dystopia is a fun idea as well - nothing is more enjoyable (or cathartic for the DM) as putting the PCs in a world of comfort ("A city of women?! Yes!") and then ripping the rug out from under them when they stumble on something truly horrible.

Very good. Wish I could find more inventive DMs like yourself, other than those whose Mother's Milk is, "You walk into a ten by ten room. There's a goblin in here guarding a treasure chest. Roll initiative."