Horas Ebonfeather's page

So far my DM is very kind in making things work for the rule of fun. My character so far is lvl 10 skinwalker.

My skinwalker usually runs in and bites to initiate the grapple, then the next either attacks with all natural attacks or pins the enemy all while being large size and raging. I have stopped many enemy casters from doing anything to my fellow party members.

I do know that in Rise of the Rune Lords, my grappler, natural attack tank will lose its effectiveness with casters having freedom of movement. I am still sticking with it though because it is just a lot of fun. Killing a colossal size fish by myself is a lot of fun.
I feel like these feats and the path I have taken so far fits killer croc or Leatherhead well.

Abyssal Bloodrager at lvl: 4
Style Shifter at lvl: 1
Medium at lvl: 1
Feral Gnasher at lvl: 4

Feats:
Dirty Fighting (Combat)
Extra Feature (General)
Eschew Materials (General)
Throw Anything (Combat)
Out Flank (General)
Kraken Style (General)
Improved Grapple (General)

Attack:
Bite: 1d8 dmg
Claws: 1d6 dmg
Tail: 1d6 dmg

My bite has the grab ability, and I have a +11 to grappling.

I am not sure if I want to take the rage power rapid grappler or the fiendish totem lesser. The reason I am pursuing the fiend totem for two steps is to work with the Hamatula hide armor.

Other feats I will be pursuing is deathroll, greater grapple, deadly grappler, body shield.

I will be taking two more lvls of feral gnasher for the prerequisites that I need for the fiend totem line to work great with the armor.

I am not sure if I want to go 4 lvls of bloodrager to increase claw dmg and get some resistances or go the rest fighter for all the feats.

Any suggestions is welcome.

also thankyou for all the input it is very helpful.

so an 8th lvl Aberrant Bloodrager with A scarlet and green cabochon ioun stone will get me pretty close to what I want.

considering it is going down the bloodrager path, is there a way to get an aura fear, or is that only through dazzling display feat.

are there items that grant these immunities?

Is there a way to get immunity to nauseated, sickened, fatigue, exhausted, shakened or panicked?

I am open to any ideas including items to levels.

you could go goblin grenadier winger marauder and fly around on your giant bat or vulture and do airstrike with a large size double hackbut mounted to your mount. Then you can add explosive or "armor pen" rounds to sunder armor, walls, or boats.

I made a char like this, I have to find the character sheet but I could hit the enemies touch AC from 1200 feet away and with precision dmg and really destroy the boat with my saboteur ability against things with hardness.

Does the bonus damage from the Grenadier stack with the INT dmg from kirin style and kirin strike to make the use of the high INT of an alchemist and high dmg from his bombs and alchemical splash weapons?

thankyou for the clarification with the half-orc FCB.

My DM is pretty open with anything as long as it isn't to Min-Max and utterly game breaking. He wants us to have fun with both combat and RP.

I believe my DM wants the campaign to go as long as possible.

I might have to build a ranged dps character for the campaign that I am part of, and was looking at either half-orc or ratfolk for race.

I understand the ratfolk: The alchemist gains +1/6 of a new discovery.

I don't quite understand the half-orc: Add +½ to bomb damage.

Not sure what bonus is stronger, because discoveries are wonderful to have.

I am going grenadier to add ranged dmg with a bow and use the splash weapons to add extra dmg. I will dip 1 lvl into mentalist for more dmg.

why not slowly cast illusion spells around each guard individually showing the room never changing. Than cast a silence spell to cancel out all noise. Then go and take the item and walk away.

build a scaleheart grappler that does all of his damage through biting and grappling the enemy. Then causes a ton of damage.

Or build a character that only knocks people out with non-lethal damage.

Alchemist mummification with the the rag doll mutagen would turn all fall dmg into non-lethal and the mummification discovery will turn non-lethal dmg to 0. This would allow you to dive from any height to attack your enemy.

@ DerkLord: I guess I should have been more specific about the grapple feats, I know about improved, greater grapple, dirty trick, rapid grapple. I didn't know if there were any feats I didn't know about that helped with grapple?

when looking at the bloodrager class, I only see:
"Bloodrage counts as the barbarian’s rage class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites, feat abilities, magic item abilities, and spell effects." from Archives of Nethys or the srd.
That is why I asked if a Bloodrager could get rage powers.

I know extremely little about spells and polymorphing. So those were the only two classes that I knew of besides the well known druid. So any class that gets you polymorph would allow me to get grab then, am I reading that correctly.

@ all, thankyou for answering all my questions.

Can a bloodrager take rage powers with the use of feats?

Do Mutation Warrior Levels stack with alchemist levels for the purpose of getting discoveries that deal with mutagens?

Are there any classes that stack with alchemist to get discoveries?

Is there a way to get the mummification mutation without dipping into alchemist?

what are all feats that help with grappling?

Is there a way to get grab without going alchemist or feral gnasher barbarian?

What is the best way to demoralize multiple enemies at a time?

Can a fighter take style feats even though the class is not monk or brawler?

the dip in barbarian was a for a small boost from rage and access to rage powers, fast movement. The dip in oracle was to get fire immunity and improved grapple.
The dip in brawler was for improved unarmed strike and a free combat feat at lvl 2.

The idea was a high health tank with good grapple that would do a lot of dmg to grappled units with natural attacks.

My alchemist archetype was going to be beastmorpher, just never put it in there.

I know vivisectionist stacks with beastmorpher, but isn't the sneak attack counter productive when you start taking classes in MC because MC helps with bomb damage.

MC and alchemist stack for taking discovery requirements correct.

Thankyou for answering all my questions, I always have these ideas in my head but lack the knowledge to hammer out the kinks to make them work.

Also how would the discovery Lingering Spirit work with the ability Ferocity?

Lingering Spirit: Benefit: The alchemist is familiar enough with the ties between his body and spirit that he lingers at death’s door far longer than a normal person. He treats his Constitution as 10 points higher than normal for the purpose of determining when hit point damage kills him (so an alchemist with a Constitution of 10 and this discovery dies at –20 hit points instead of –10). Reducing him to 0 Constitution or its equivalent (from ability damage, ability drain, Constitution penalties, and so on) makes him unconscious and comatose, but he is only killed after taking an additional 5 points of Constitution damage, drain, or penalty (in effect, the alchemist must be brought to –5 Constitution in order to be killed by these attacks).

Ferocity: A creature with ferocity remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The creature is still staggered and loses 1 hit point each round. A creature with ferocity still dies when its hit point total reaches a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.

Is this prestige class worth it to fully go into?
I am preparing a second character for a campaign if my current one dies. I was looking at doing a natural attack melee alchemist.

I was thinking 2 lvl dip into barbarian archetype Invulnerable or Pugilist.
2 lvls in mutagenic brawler.
1 lvl dip into duel cursed oracle.
7 lvls in alchemist just for getting master chymist.
The rest would be into Master Chymist.

However, is it possible to meet these prerequisites for the master chymist prestige class without taking alchemist levels?

Also do levels from Mutagenic Brawler and Mutagenic Warrior stack with levels from Alchemist for meeting prerequisites for discoveries?

Also with the mutation warrior, I still need to meet the Prerequisites for any of the discoveries that the class gets at 7th lvl?

Is there a way to get pounce, grab, or constrict without using barbarian rage powers?

Does the rage power greater beast totem,
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian gains the pounce special ability, allowing her to make a full attack at the end of a charge. In addition, the damage from her claws increases to 1d8 (1d6 if Small) and the claws deal x 3 damage on a critical hit.

stack with the increase from the bloodrager bloodlines like abyssal, sphinx,
Claws (Su): At 1st level, you grow claws while bloodraging. These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack, using your full base attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d6 points of damage each (1d4 if you are Small) plus your Strength modifier. At 4th level, these claws are considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage resistance. At 8th level, the damage increases to 1d8 points (1d6 if you are Small). At 12th level, these claws become flaming weapons, which deal an additional 1d6 points of fire damage on a hit.

Therefore, with having 1d8 claws from greater beast totem, will the claws increase in size again when you get to 8th lvl abyssal bloodrager?

ok thankyou "name violation". I am trying to maximize damage with grappling while being a skinwalker scaleheart barbarian.

from the looks of it a dip into bloodrager won't help. while a dip into Vivisectionist for two levels to get sneak attack and the tumor familiar. A dip into unbreakable fighter for diehard and endurance, I believe those are prerequisites for another helpful feat. Than a single dip into duel cursed oracle for the reaver mystery and two curses.

then the rest makes sense to be feral gnasher barbarian.

unless anyone can think of why a 4 lvl dip into bloodrager will help, I just don't see it.

Horas Ebonfeather wrote:

Is the abyssal bloodline size increase at level 4 able to be used with enlarge person or righteous might?

no. multiple things that alter size do not stack.

enlarge person wrote:

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

ok thankyou because the wording was difficult to understand from the bloodline power.

so the demonic bulk is a magical effect? In that case dipping four level isn't worth it because I know righteous might is so much better then enlarge person.

Is the abyssal bloodline size increase at level 4 able to be used with enlarge person or righteous might?

Look up how Oracle curses stack. Basically if you take 1 level of Oracle and 8 levels of Bloodrager you gain immunity to Fatigue (so a 1 level dip at level 9 gets you immunity to fatigue then). That's 8 levels earlier, which is a HUGE fast-forward on Rage-Cycling.

Also, I took a level of Dual-Cursed Oracle, so I was able to get 2 curses, though only the Lame curse increases as I level.

Having said that, if you're going to be playing to level 20 and don't need to Rage-cycle then Mighty Bloodrage is definitely a bigger benefit than this. Do you want rage-cycling 8 levels early or do you want Mighty Bloodrage at level 20?

I have never rage cycled before so I can see the benefit of getting immune to fatigue 9 levels earlier. I will have to look into some of the rage powers that only work once per rage and see what I can use.

currently I am playing a scaleheart skinwalker that is a feral gnasher barbarian and going with a 4 lvl dip into bloody-knuckled bloodrager with abyssal bloodline. However, my DM said I could rebuild and go full bloodrager. so that is why I am looking into a good front liner dps/tank bloodrager.

may not be able nuke but I prefer to be able to reliably hit hard all the time and I like the survivability of a bloodrager.

@ Mrcharisma: would a 1 level dip in oracle with lame curse be necessary if you will get tireless rage at hire levels or are there other curses that are just as beneficial.

But when I can be part of another campaign I am going to try the primalist bloodrager. that way I can get some rage powers without taking some bloodline powers I don't like.

3. Necessity. So this one isn't actually an advantage of the Magus. Magi use 1-handed weapons, and often don't use damage increasing feats like Power Attack. Dealing 1d6+10 damage is fine when you're adding 10d6 spell damage, but it still doesn't really compare to 3d6+45 damage from a buffed up Bloodrager.

So all up you'll have to jump through more hoops, you'll have to wait till you get Greater Bloodrage, you'll get less SG damage (from crits) and you'll be dealing more damage with your other weapons so it'll be less impactful.

Having said that, adding 10d6 damage per round is nothing to scoff at. If you feel like investing a trait and a feat into Shocking Grasp, then dipping 1 level of Oracle (Lame curse, look up how Oracle Curses stack) and charging in every round with electrified claws then have at it.

how are you getting 10d6 + 45 damage from the blood rager?

I read that rage cycling would be needed, why is that, a bloodrager can cast spells while raging?

I have read a lot about how a shocking grasp magus is very overpowered. But could you make a bloodrager with the same build.

I was thinking a Urban Bloodrager with crossblood. Then taking the bloodline of either abyssal, sphinx, or draconic.

The idea is to pounce on the enemy and hit with two claw attacks and add shocking grasp to the damage as well. So high mobility would be very helpful as well.

You could just be a bloodrager and take the primalist archetype for rage powers. It works out about the same, plus you get access to higher level class abilities.

I will keep that in mind for a future build, the campaign has started and I still want to pursue the feral gnasher build with grappling bite damage. Also the dip into the bloody-knuckled rowdy bloodrager gives me improved unarmed combat feat for free, with large size and claws.

would a 4 lvl dip into bloodrager archetype bloody-knuckled rowdy and use the bloodline abyssal. that would give me claws with magic attack and a size increase to large when raging.

then the rest of my level would be into barbarian even though fighter looks good for the feats that I will need, however, i need more from the rage powers and my archetypes abilities.

I really don't plan on tying any one up, unless my party thinks it is necessary. that whole raging ill-tempered scale heart. would rather make a bloody mess.

Thankyou for all the help everyone. So I think my final build will be a feral gnasher barbarian with a dip into deep diver ranger and strangler brawler. My race will be skinwalker with the subrace of scaleheart.

The deep diver ranger gives me deep dive feat for long breath, and proficiency in medium armor and with harpoon and net to help with grappling. Also with the combat style I can either go natural wpn or unarmed. This also fits thematically with my character's background.

The strangler brawler gives me an extra 2d6 dmg during grappling and no loss of dex while grappling.

The rest will be into barbarian to flush out the rest of the grappling and biting and killing.

the traits I will be taking is religion serpentine squeeze and adopted to get bred for war.

rage powers I am going to pursue is the beast totem path, animal fury, greater animal fury, penetrating bite, raging grappler, body bludgeon, increased DR, and swift foot. Maybe : bloody bite, renewed vigor, internal fortitude, intimidating glare, terrifying howl

The feats will be a mix of improved grapple, greater grapple, deathroll, raging vitality, feral combat training, wpn focus (?), rapid grappler, pinning rend, body shield, improved unarmed strike, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, rending claws, and multi-attack. Maybe: eldritch claws

with stats while raging and hybrid form of:
Str: 21
Dex: 13
Con: 21
Int: 10
Cha: 8
Wis: 13

thankyou again for all the help, advice and input is always welcome.

These are your best 3 options for Traits, imo:

Religion Serpentine Squeeze You gain a +1 trait bonus on combat maneuver checks to grapple a foe, as well as a +1 trait bonus to your CMD whenever an opponent tries to grapple you.

Combat Ogre Avoidance You gain a +2 trait bonus to CMD against bull rush and grapple combat maneuvers.

You could take Adopted, and then take this Human Race Trait:
Race Bred for War You gain a +1 trait bonus on Intimidate checks and a +1 trait bonus on your CMB because of your great size. You must be at least 6 feet tall.

======================================

Tbh, I think Serpentine Squeeze is probably the best bang for your buck. If you know that your DM favors using Bull Rush monsters/NPC's, Ogre
Avoidance might be worth it too. Having a +2 to CMD vs. Grapple is important because your victims will be making CMB and Escape Artist checks against your CMD to break free or to become the Controlling Grappler, so taking Ogre Avoidance instead of Serpentine Squeeze isn't a waste by any means.

thankyou for the input. My DM is running the rise of the runelords campaign. That and being able to counter my opponents ability to escape is good idea.

are there any good traits to look into for this character that would be helpful?

Raging vitality is a feat.

Tetori monk is amazing as a single class, nothing special as a dip. And then there's the alignment problem. I wouldn't recommend such a dip.

Hive totem is possibly useful But it doesn't obviously match on flavour? Tyrant totem would also be useful and is a better flavour match for you IMO.

Ok I found it thankyou. You are correct in the long run hive totem is not useful at all nor does it fit the flavour of my character.

I will look into the tyrant totem, however, the flaw I see is that I will never use swallow whole.

But I might also look into beast totem to get a claw attack and have some alternative attack abilities.

I could not find the raging vitality rage power.

Would you recommend any dip in tetori monk for the OP grappling ability?

I honestly don't want to take the dip because I feel like it takes away from the RP of the race and werecrocodile connection.

the rage powers I was looking at were:

animal fury
bloody bite
ghost rager
greater animal fury
hive totem
hive totem resilience
hive totem toxicity
penetrating bite

maybe:
breathtaker
superstition
raging grappler ( i think i get this from feral gnasher)

I still need to work on the feats.

yes I do understand that loss of wisdom, but that is something I am willing to take because I probably won't change unless I am raging.

I also got clearance from my DM that I can take the feral gnasher archetype with the scaleheart or seascarred skinwalker race. I also increased the bite damage from 1d6 to 1d8.

20 point by:
normal--
stats:
str: 15
dex: 14
con: 15
int: 10
wis: 13
cha: 8

raging--
str: 19
dex: 14
con: 19
int: 10
wis: 13
cha: 8

shapechanged and raging--
str: 21
dex: 14
con: 21
int: 10
wis: 11
cha: 8

Brawler 2 gives a flurry which takes a full-round action which is generally incompatible with maintaining a grapple. And a bonus combat feat, nice but not worth a 2-level dip. No, this is not a good idea for a grappler.

sorry I meant the brawler archetype strangler, which benefits grappling.

Strangle (Ex)
At 1st level, a strangler deals +1d6 sneak attack damage whenever she succeeds at a grapple check to damage or pin an opponent. The strangler is always considered flanking her target for the purpose of using this ability. This damage increases by +1d6 at 2nd, 8th and 15th levels.

This ability replaces unarmed strike and brawler’s flurry.

Practiced Strangler (Ex)
At 2nd level, when a strangler has the grappled condition, she does not take a –4 penalty to Dexterity and does not lose her Dexterity bonus to AC. At 9th level, a grappling or grappled strangler still threatens an area and is still able to make attacks of opportunity while grappling or grappled; when pinned, she is not denied her Dexterity bonus and does not take a –4 penalty to Armor Class.

This ability replaces AC bonus.

this would add on some extra damage and not take away my dex bonus during grappling.

for grappling and bite damage do you think it is worth dipping into brawler for 2 levels to get the benefits for grappling?

Skinwalker is a race, not a modifier to another race. The ability mods you've quoted are for the basic kind of skinwalker without a particular heritage like scaleheart. If you're a scaleheart or whatever then you replace the quoted part with the scaleheart or whatever modifiers.

Extra feature probably isn't worth the feat for a scaleheart skinwalker. Quick change is not worth it for you, and probably only worth it in edge cases - there's no time limit on how long you can walk around with croc jaws, only a social limit.

ok thankyou for the clarification. so then the only benefit of the "subrace" is the RP, which is perfectly fine.

trying to design a barbarian that works around biting and grappling his enemies. goblin is not an available race and was thinking skinwalker with the scaleheart transformation, it fits theatrically and combat tactics wise. I am starting out at level 1 with a 20 point system.

was wondering if there is any suggestion with this idea and input is welcome. I will have the stats of what I was thinking shortly.

Does the initial race of the skinwalker change the stats or racial abilities or is it just affecting the culture and how the skinwalker was raised?

Are the extra racial features like quick change or extra feature actually worth it?

clarification on how the initial racial ability modifies is applied would be very helpful?
"Ability Score Modifiers: Skinwalkers are well attuned to the natural order of things and value passion above reason. They gain +2 Wisdom, –2 Intelligence, and +2 to one physical ability score while shapechanged (1 RP). While in their bestial form, they gain a +2 racial bonus to either Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution (see Change Shape). Skinwalkers of specific heritages (see below) gain different ability score modifiers, as indicated."

this is kind of confusing to me?

Well the sense organs spell is out of the question, the dmg from ig isnt very good and will not help the vexing dodge with the ac bonus when climbing on enemies.

Voodist monk:
I like you starting layout idea, the bloodrager fits with styx used to being an orc. I am thinking something with more sneak attack will be more useful because that gives me bonus ac when fighting the creature that I am climbing on. So I dont think magus will work, because as avr said, the green sting magus stinks.

Though I will look at the spell sense vital organs. That might make me look at magus.

you make a very good point with that class giving me both sneak attack and some "magic" abilities. The use of potions does fit with styx fairly well.

Is there archetype of the magus that has the same progression of sneak attack as a rogue.

or would dipping or taking classes in ninja be more useful with the ki abilities?

VoodistMonk:
I thought about bloodrager, but I like the idea behind kensai magus to get some basic arcane spell-casting. The magus will also give me bonus to AC with my intelligence modifier, which is going to be decently high because the high intelligence of styx.

AVR:
I prefer to go more heavy on the dmg and non-magical skills and capabilities than relying on magic. i have never enjoyed magic to much. I was just looking at a high crit range with the wakizashi and using bleeding crit ontop of that. Otherwise I was going to go heavy on the sneak attack dmg.
I agree with the being tiny and grappling being absolutely useless. I was thinking of trying to go tiny size, but not any smaller, thought that does kind of move away from styx. but the concept of being in the enemies square and doing dmg and not getting hit by the enemy is what i am trying to go after.

Mixing swashbuckler (mouser) with vexing dodger i would be able to be in the enemies square while not being considered grappled and be granted a high AC from vexing dodger and the counter attacks from the mouser class. with using my dex to hit and dmg i will be able to decent dmg to the enemy.

I know Alzhan has started a post about this character concept in pathfinder. I was thinking that a vexing rogue and the concept behind the songbird of doom. The concept of the songbird of doom by Breq of Toren. I think that I could make a very similar/ potent Styx.

Who is Styx:
Used to be a orc shaman turned into the first goblin, highly intelligent and has a connection to magic.
Styx needs to be able to Grapple really well (he is actually quite muscular and acrobatic for a goblin, so he likely has high STR and DEX), Carry unconscious humans in full-plate as a medium-load. Be proficient with a long-knife (statted as a Gladius or Shortsword most likely), and throwing knives (statted as Daggers most likely). His saliva must be an almost instantly deadly ingested poison. He must be able to cast the following spells spontaneously: Detect Magic (at-will), Vanish and Vomit Twin (3-5 times per day)

i like the concept behind the idea of the songbird of doom, but i would like to use a bladed wpn like the wakizashi or something similar. As Styx uses a bladed wpn to kill enemies. Using high crit range and sneak attack to do my damage. Though in the game he has high str, i am going to focus on dex for dmg, to hit, etc.

When he wants to incapacitate the enemy he usually chokes them out or knocks them out some other way. Was looking at the sap master chain for that method and maybe going down the grapple line with the chokehold feat.

i am not to worried about making clones, i would like to use poison and acids, but the problem is that poisons in pathfinder are very weak and lots of enemies have immunity to poison.

Please let me know what you think of the concept. it is still in the building process and I would like your opinion, been in multiple one-shots testing these concepts that I have been asking about.

Yes I understand that I would not be able to use it as a two-handed wpn. For flavor I was going to but only do the dmg as one-handed. I am liking the swashbuckler-Kensai combo better than monk.

Dave justus: a problem I see with swashbuckler is that all the dmg comes from having a piercing wpn where as the katana is a slashing wpn.

I could see monk working for a spellstrike multi touch spell. First round you cast 2nd round you use flurry to finish them. The benefit would probably come more from monk defenses/abilities; But, that would mean having 2 main mental stats (Int and either Wis

Temperans: yes the idea with the monk was mainly going for his high def/abilities that would help me survive in battles.

It is expected to be High power. I am like the kensia for the bonus to magic to the wpn and for the high AC and non-combat versatility. My main dmg would be from my attacks, not so much from the magic.