Grondin Nicolas's page

In one test version, we make Trapfinding fonctionning like Track for Pathfinder Ranger : a bonus of +1/2 Class Level on Search and Disable Device checks for Traps...

Skills rules of Pathfinder let any character take Disable Devisce,no ? Simply remove the DC 20 limit on finding/disable Traps

It is not illogical to consider skill to be knowledge of an inherent class which evolve as the experience is earned (and levelsļ) : a character exploits his study better through acquired experience and gives it to new acquired knowledge. I do not say that I stick completely to this idea but she cannot, in my view, be completely excluded.
Indeed, Versions of D&D (and 3 +) have never favored a system of entrainment ¡V favoring game options and relative simplicity on pseudo-realism/simulationism. Why a druid who does not stop resting in an urban environment shall continue earning druid's faculties through the benefit of its levels? Why would a warlike fighter webbed in intrigues of palace without having opportunity to fight advance in his fighter capacities taking feats, physical based skills and fighting options?
In some cases because the player chose it

The tendency of the players is to maximize their skills, and those who take some ranks here and there often limit themselves to 5 ranks to benefit of synergy bonus. At the very most, they develop some competences later or because of multiclassing or request in a prestige class.

In game purposes, the system of competences must be compatible with edition 3.5 AND make easier the life of everybody (particularly of DMs). In this purpose, automatic progress offered in PathfinderRPG is not a poor thing-in-itself and constitutes a good foundation:

I have already introduced earlier in this thread a draft of system taking that of Saga / Pathfinder back but with some development to make it easy, consistent and retro-compatible with 3.5, while giving choices to the player.

At first level, your character gains a number of skills dependent upon your class plus your Intelligence modifier. At every even character level after that, you gain another skill (1 at 2nd level, another at 4th, etc.).

These skills can be divided into two categories, class skills and cross-class skills. Class skills are those favored by your chosen class (or classes). Your character is most proficient in these skills, as they represent part of his professional training and constant practice. Your character can be knowledgeable in cross-class skills, but you will never be as skilled with them as you will be in those favored by your class.

Whenever your character is required to make a skill check, roll 1d20 and add the appropriate modifier.

If the skill is one that you are trained in and it¡¦s a class skill, your bonus on the skill check is equal to your class level + your relevant ability score modifier. If the skill is one that you are trained in but it¡¦s a cross-class skill, your bonus on the skill check is equal to 1/2 your class level (round down) + your relevant ability score modifier. If you are not trained in the skill (and it may be tried untrained) you may attempt the skill using only the bonus (or penalty) provided by the skill¡¦s associated ability score modifier.

In the case of multiclassing, simply add the corresponding level of each class separately.

Trained Cross Class skill rank modifier = 1/2 class level
Trained Class skill rank modifier = class level
Untrained skill rank modifier = 0

Example: a fighter 6 /rogue 6 with a intelligence score of 14, trained in Disable Device would have a Skill check of +11 (+6 for rogue level, +3(6/2) for fighter level and +2 for intelligence modifier). With the same ability score, a trained rogue 12 would have a check modifier of 14 (+12 for rogue levels and +2 for ability modifier). A Trained Fighter 12 would have a skill modifier of +8 (6(=12/2) +2 (ability modifier).

Note : consider the level dependant skill modifier as skill rank for purpose of compatibility with 3.5.

Each time a character gain another skill, he has some option:
- Add a new skill as Trained

- Focusing in a Trained skill : he gains a +3 modifier in the skill (for compatibility with 3.5 you can consider it as a skill rank bonus). Can be take once for each skill.

- Choose a trained skill which is class skill in at least one class of the character : the skill become class skill in all class he has to determine the skill modifiers (Multiclassed character only)
In the course of his progress, a character has 10 skill option (Pathfinder RPG).

[i]A monoclassed character may choose to "specialize" (maximizing rang bonus equivalent in 3.5) in 5 competences of his choice or to diversify his knowledge to 10 competences (add to the initial choice). For multiclassed character, they can easily diversify their skills but cross class skills cost them more.

This system is easy to handle with, and DM friendly for monster/PNJ, 3.5 retrocompatible, and give some choice to players.

To this I shall add some options:
Options 1: allow to a character of 1st level to specialize in a number of competence equal to its modifier of intelligence.
Option 2: restrict the number of specialization which a charcater can have in the course of his life by his intelligence modifier. I am not so much for but it can interest some DMs
Option 3: a Favored Class benefit ; example : a favored class character can choose a class skill in which he has a +1 modifier per 5 levels in the favored class.
Option 4: restrict focusing in a skil to Trained Class skill

I will test this skill system next week, with creating 12 Lvl PCs for testing purposes and have other players/DMs feedback.

-Nyco

I don’t like Saga version (and d20 version for this purpose) for limiting a skill use by one use per day per patient or in restoring 1d4/1d6HP to a 15th level character.

But Heal may not replace the efficiency of a healing spell caster – magical healing is fast, efficient and has no side effects. But Magical Healing is “limited” in term of preparation* and uses per day (less in high levels).

I prefer a Side effect solution for a skill because I don’t want the skill replace the spell – magical healing in this version type represent a very fast recovery tool, in gaming sense.

although I do question why anyone would voluntarily become sickened in exchange for healing a few hp.

The intent is limiting the use of a skill without limiting its uses per day (which concern magic and spells). The sickened/nauseated (or fatigued/exhausted) side effect need to be play testing in game. As presented this solution is more an idea inspired by experience than a balancing rule.

In fact, in this system a skilled healer of 15th level with +23 in Heal (18rk, +3 Sag, +2 equipment) with a 10 on its roll may heal 4HP per HD (total 33) - of the patient so a 15th lvl patient could restore 60 HP. A middle 15th lvl fighter with a +2 Constitution modifier would have 120 HP…
It’s excessive, overpowered and replaces the spell if there is not side effect. A more balanced variant is to let recover a % of total HP of the patient. 15-19 :10 % ; 20-24 : 20 % ; 25-29 : 30 % ; 30-34 : 40 % ; 35+ : 50 % for example.

Another idea for limiting the use and efficiency of the Healing skill without have to state one use per patient per day is to inflict an ability damage effect. Each time a character benefits normal Healing care, he takes 1 point of Constitution damage ability after the first normal healing attempt (or a -1 modifier to its Constitution score).
It’s a side effect of normal healing care.

In a sense, Hit Point represent the capacity of a character to enduring pain, suffering and “dodging” the more lethal blows (it’s common to most of level based progression system). When the HP of a character reaches 0 HP, his core health is damaged and become really wounded.

* I precise that (in 3.5 version) I have house ruled that a cleric can convert any of its spell in one of it’s spell domain. But He can’t channel healing or inflict spell in that manner, without the appropriate domains. Without this rule, I (and my group) thought the Healing domains very ininteressant… (+1CL on Healing spell…) but in Pathfinder version that wasn’t the case.

- Nyco

Sorry for my low English written (I’m a horrible frog-eater, nobody is perfect…) so I try to keep things simple (for me).

First :

As Alchemy is a Craft Skill, why not considering Healing skill as a Profession skill ?

Second : Healing

DC 15: stabilize a patient
DC 15:Revive Dazed, Stunned, or Unconscious Character
DC 15: restore 1 Hit Point per round (alternatively minute) per Hit Dice (or Level) of the patient. Under the treatment, the patient is sickened until she regains more than half her Hit points. If the patient is already sickened when the treatment occurs, then she becomes nauseated. Alternatively fatigued and exhausted condition
For each 4 (or 5 point) above on the check result, the healer restores +1HP per round. this keep the skill appeal at some high levels .
This rule keep low the throwing of dices on the table and incite the investment in a high score skill.
I like the idea that employing a skill that mimic magic effect would have a side effect (time, action consumption, modifier) that restrain its use more than “can’t be used more than once per day and per patient”. Characters have choice…
I find idea to enhance effect of healing spell with the use of skill a good idea (as appraise with detect and identify in Pathfinder).

- Nyco

Skill point system

Untrained: 1d20 + modifier (racial, ability)
Trained class skill: 1d20 + class level + modifier
Trained cross class skill: 1d20 + ½ class level (round down)

Multiclass character: simply add modifiers relevant to each separate class.

Example
Disable device :
- Rogue 20 = 20 (20 rogue levels) + modifiers (dex...)
- Rogue 1/Fighter 19 = 10 (1 for rogue level and 19/2=9.5 round down 9 for fighter level) + modifiers (dex...)
- Rogue 10/Fighter 10 = 15 (10 for rogue and 5 for fighter level)+ modifiers (dex...)

Each time the character can have a new skill, he can choose a skill focus on a skill he knows : conferring a +3 bonus. This bonus can be purchase at 1st level for 1 skill point/choice.
Option 1: restrict this rule limiting the number of skills you can focus by the Intelligence modifier.
Option 2: skill focus can only apply on skill presented in the class list list

Each time he can choice a new skill (or focusing) a multiclassed character can choose a focused skill in askill figure in one of its class skill list, then he add his full character level and the skill is considered as a permanent class skill. This is an option for multiclass character only.

Note 1: . each skill focus add a virtual 2 ranks for Prestige Class and Feats prérequisites or replace the prerequis (ex : Mounted Combat Feat...).