C. of Darkness 2hr/7, Spec.Hand 7 min, G. of Madness 3/7, 1st: 2/7, 2nd: 1/7, 3rd: 2/5
After the lantern does its work, 322 bends over Zey's body and reads the words of a scroll. Before everyone's eyes, the wizard's flesh melts away, leaving nothing but bones and a smear of blood on the ground.
Decompose Corpse
As is her custom, she says little of what is on her mind, but still the Experiment looks into the distance and reflects, His flesh is gone, and his soul trapped, leaving nothing but a mystery. Through this, I have proven my worth, haven't I Professor? I know now nothing I do will release me from the hooks you have in my life, but perhaps this will earn me a future with some small measure of autonomy.
C. of Darkness 2hr/7, Spec.Hand 7 min, G. of Madness 3/7, 1st: 2/7, 2nd: 1/7, 3rd: 2/5
The best of the creepy spells would probably be Ghoul Touch, hoping for paralysis and then a CDG. That would be foiled by a DC16 Fort save, a miss with the touch or a ring of Freedom of Movement.
She can do direct damage via a Slay Living scroll (DC17, 10% failure chance from level check plus have to make a touch attack). Upside is about 50 damage average and maybe dead, downside is maybe 20 average.
The original is a TPK waiting to happen. She easily TPK'd my longtime powergaming PFS party and it wasn't close. X's AC plus Mirror Image plus SR19 plus that damage output at that level is troubling. In a lot of ways, the original version and the PFS conversion linked above is as tough an opponent until book 5 or 6.
I expected this and so planned/played an altered start to book 3 where 2 years or so had passed and the TPK'd PCs were on the gambling ship talked about in the background as domination/wisdom drain zombies. One of the other slaves cracks, lights a suicide fire and Xanesha waves goodbye and leaves the party to drown inside a prison part of the ship. When the cold water hits, they regain their senses and have to break out of the sinking ship, swim to shore with nothing and limp to town. After that, they return to the ship, gather belongings (their fave weapons were on display in the gampling hall) and continue with the adventure.
They met her again in the fortress where she was in Leucretia's place, and even prepared she escaped and they finally got her on the dam.
How about Morrilan on point - Rayne - Frissa - Pavanna - NPC-Phelerosa - Alden? The first 4 are relatively quiet, Morrilan can see in the dark, the first 2 have decent perception, Frissa can keep things lit with a Light spell.
"In that case, maybe I'll pass on the stew and the fish." Frissa lowers her voice, speaking in a stream of words, "Actually, we might be able to help get you out, but only if you wanted to go...Your family didn't send us as such, so it's really up to you...You know, if you were to show us that contract, we could pass your message along with that much more force...Say...while you think about that offer, have you heard of another fellow named Jax Telandil?"
She smiles, the very picture of innocence and sincerity and raises her voice again, "Are there many brownies around here?"
When these Specials are successful come completion of Gameday 4 is there any chance of doing some of the previous Specials as PbP for future game days for people who have yet to do them? I.E. Year of the Shadow Lodge; Blood Under Absalom; Race for the Runecarved Key.
From discussions I've had with IronHelixx, it is perfectly legal for a group of GMs to run an older Special via PbP if there are enough tables involved to meet the minimum. It just takes initiative and organization to make it happen.
I am similarly interested in the older Specials, so I can see us doing something like this on Myth-Weavers in the future, either as part of a Gameday, or as a standalone.
My character was recently dominated and the party hit him once with a hard nonlethal attack to create a don't kill him accidentally buffer, then tripped and went lethal after that.
Some of us GMs on Myth-Weavers have been talking for a few years about running a PbP Special over there and we're thinking we have critical mass enough and are talking of trying one starting mid-September. We have several GMs who have been part of Specials in the past and think it could work fine with how our thread structure works and believe we could handle the pacing issues.
I see that there was some kind of online Special that you coordinated in the past and I thought I'd ask some questions:
Was yours a VTT/R20 thing or was it PbP?
Do you have any thoughts/cautions for us before we start?
Could we have access somehow to any of the more recent Specials or
would we be limited to the 4? that are currently available?
So, now that I stirred up this question, my character who stood to benefit or miss out also got possessed in the same scenario. Since I figure that's the more difficult one on the scarab sages card, and you can only get credit for one at a time, I'm not even looking for credit this time around.
Pearls are pretty pure Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3), but then so are the thousand(s)+ ft. limestone cliff exposures of the Rocky Mountains about 75km west of my home here in Calgary. Minearologically, they are the same.
Limestone is an agglomeration of mostly animal skeletal fragments composed of CaCO3, and pearls are an accreted mineral formation made of CaCo3. If one were to bury a pile of pearls, they would become Limestone over time.
[/geology lession]
Anyway, we're near the 50/50 range still with no overwhelming edge in terms of seniority. I think that barring a contraindication from him whose name does not need to be said three times, I'm going to go with Yes, in the spirit of the Leniency stuff outlined above.
I had that problem too, and it's a general issue with Fighters in those levels when Full Plate comes into play and bad guy BAB hasn't caught up.
I had smarter opponents (stone giants, bosses) switch to tactics like sundering, disarming, etc., which should be useful. The dumber opponents smashed harder and went down like chumps, but I was fine with that. My player made the character to be a melee killing machine and deserves his chance to shine.
Things will change once you get to flying opponents and into Sins of the Saviors as the Fighter may already be close to maxed out on AC and attack bonuses start creeping up into the high 20's, and save DCs get scary high.
The adventure is balanced for 4x15 point first level characters.
They're already 20% stronger because of the extra character and maybe another 20% for the extra 10 points.
If they would accept 15 point second level characters (0 xp or no is immaterial in the long run), you'd be better off unless your group really enjoys plowing through baddies without much challenge.
I might rip off your idea of the PC who can see departing souls. I have a PC with a newly regenerated eye who might discover that he can see a little more than he expected with it...
I'd do a human polearm paladin 4/sorcerer 1/ gold dragon disciple 10, built for tripping. Core build:
Bumps go to strength, then charisma, then constitution.
He would end up with base scores of:
Str 18
Dex13
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 12
Cha 14
CL 8 sorcerer
BAB 11
Wings, fire breath, form of the dragon II, bite, claws, Nat Arm +3
4th level spells: Dimension Door (verbal only), Fire shield
3rd level spells (cast still if need be): Haste, Blink or Displacement
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Simple question: Can someone move their full movement rate and use stealth?
PRD wrote:
When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.
This suggests that you must move slower than your normal speed (at least 5'/round slower?), so a human without the Fast Stealth rogue trick could double move 50'/single move 25' and a halfling could double move 30'/single move 15', while accepting the -5 penalty?
There doesn't seem to be an allowance for a full double or single move with stealth, even with the Swift as Shadows Halfling Trait.
We've always played it that you get the -5 penalty if you move more than half and up to your normal speed.
I know you've said no but, the nice part about the Ranger (Weapon and shield archetype) build is you get to where you want to be sooner:
1 - Improved shield bash
2R - Shield Slam (2nd level, not 6th)
3 - Power Attack
5 - Improved Bull Rush
6R - Shield Master (6th level, not 11th and this is a huge feat - at this point there are no two-weapon penalties on the shield side)
7 - Greater bull rush
9 - Improved Critical: Main-hand weapon to go with...
10R - Bashing Finish - Moar shield bashes!
You could have scores like:
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 5
You don't have to be a fruity hippy smell the flowers elf ranger - you're a shield slamming dwarf ranger who kicks ass with that shield. Heck, you could even be the kind of ranger who doesn't like animals and plants and seeks to use his abilities to subjugate nature.
The downside is until 6th level, you are bashing or attacking but you get 4 extra levels of shield slam and 5 extra of Shield Master (which as I mentioned is a monster feat).
I'd focus more on figments and glamers because they are more often no save or save on interaction effects, which, depending on your DM, can require an action of some kind.
I'd avoid the phantasms at later levels because they are mind effecting and all too often targets are immune.
I think the coolest illusionists would be the ones that mix real and illusionary effects so the targets won't know whether the wall of stone is real or not or if the summoned creatures are real or not.
I'm planning an illusionist for next time and am thinking about using lots of conjurations and illusions of same, lots of battlefield control, buffing and miscellany.
*************************************************************
Seven kings of Thornhold are
Exploring forth, we travel afar
Tower and mountain, forest and dungeon
Finding seven-pointed stars
Oh Star of mys't'ry, star of night
Star of evil's earnest plight
Named Sihedron, why's it turnin'
Up on our foes left and right
We're planning a game in the week after Christmas so I've been penning butchered Christmas Carols to pump up the event. This is my best effort so enjoy:
*************************************************************
Now there's Slasher and Stabber and Halfling insp'ration
Ray-Ray and Blaster and Healer and Marksman
But do you recall
The toughest recurring villain of all?
Xanesha the Lamia Matriarch
Had a very freaky mask
And if you ever saw it, you might turn to stone quite fast
All of her thrall - charm slaves
Used to laugh and know their names
Then they met Xanesha, now they only play her games
Then one foggy Summer's Eve
Xanesha came to say
"Now you've lit my boat on fire, won't you die and drown tonight?"
All of the charm slaves swam hard
And they shouted out, all free
Xanesha we vow this on this night, some day you'll be hist-or-eeeeee!!!
My group's going to be hit by random encounter howler monkey thieves in the pre-dawn light on day 3. They have a decent shelter built and they found Jenivere and cleared it of eurypterids and any treasure they could take.
I'm GMing this in a PbP game here: http://www.myth-weavers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20074
I am starting with 2 groups of 8 castaways (each a couple miles on either side of the wreck) with another guy co-GMing and running the day-to-day stuff in one of the groups while I do the mapping and graphics and run the day-to-day action for my group. We started last week so one group is at the morning of day 2 and the other is still in the evening of day 1.
I ran this with a prologue aboard Jenivere where the characters got to meet each other and had a chance to talk with the various NPCs, including the doomed ones. That was a fantastic move for a PbP game - I basically invited all the applicants to start talking with the NPCs and each other right away so I got an idea about their posting abilities and frequency right away.
They had a miserable first night and the three women, Sasha, Sariel and Lilianna just had a blow-out after Hawkler got super bossy trying to get a shelter built.
Group 2:
Cask - Dwarven Cleric of Gozreh
Tyranthius - Forlorn Elven Rogue
Kark - Half-orc barbarian (crew member)
Olo - Nature Mystery Oracle (stowaway, ex-slave)
(NPCs - Ishirou, Aerys, Sava (my co-GM's original character, a Tarzan-like halfling barbarian)
They did some good exploring but didn't do much about a shelter or food so they're going to be cold, wet and on rations right away.
If you have a character with a 20 strength and a 7 intelligence, ...
Really, from a bonus/population distribution Point of View, a 7 intelligence means the person is slower than average by the same amount that a 14 INT is smarter than average.
We are not talking about a serious handicap here. To gauge how far off the mean a 7 is, look at strength:
- 7 STR means you can't lift more than 70 lbs over your head. I know lots of people who can't lift 70 lbs and I'm sure most people do too.
Extrapolating that level of deficit to the other abilities:
- 7 DEX means you trip going up the stairs or can't learn to touch type no matter how many lessons you take
- 7 CON means you catch every cold that goes around or maybe you can't climb a flight of stairs without losing your breath
- 7 INT means you need help with the "internets" or can't program your VCR or aren't the book-learning type
- 7 WIS means you max out your credit cards or you chronically leave home without proper footwear in the winter or you believe in horoscopes and you buy extended warranties
- 7 CHA means you are shy or a little obnoxious or you're the one who is constantly ignored by the waitress and doesn't stand up for yourself
For me, my goal would be to minimize the amount of work I'd have to do in the long run. The easiest way to do that would be to get your PCs to the correct level sometime in the first three adventures (because it's much easier to boost lower-level encounters than it is to do the same with high-level ones).
To accomplish that goal, I'd shave a half to a third off your XP awards so the PCs feel like they are making progress when they are really falling back a bit. I'd keep the treasure similar to what's in the adventures so you don't pull too far ahead in Wealth by Level terms.
Spoilers:
Burnt Offerings: Goblin encounters become Bugbears and Goblins (run the battles with oodles of stupid suicidal regular goblins running around soaking up fireballs and whatnot so you get the feel of goblins and the punch of bugbears), bump the named NPCs by several (3?) levels. Pace your XP for 6th level at completion.
Skinsaw Murders: Ghouls become Ghasts, Bump NPCs and use the full hardcoreness of Xanesha instead of pulling her punches like happens with most groups. Pace XP for 8th level at completion.
Hook Mountain Massacre: Give the Grauls the advanced simple template and Mammy a Level and aim for late 8th, early 9th level by then. At that point, they'll be ready for Fort Rannick and all that and back on the path at about the appropriate levels.
Pride/Confidence - "Be confident and your people will follow"
Lust/Passion - "Show passion and your people will love you"
Sloth/Patience - "An impatient ruler risks all"
Wrath/Justice - "Trust is earned by a just and firm hand"
Envy/Ambition - "A dying nation is one without growth"
Gluttony/Subsistence - "Feed your people and you will never know revolt"
Greed/Conservation - "Conserve the bounty of today so you never see famine of tomorrow"
Have you worked out (other than what Xanesha was obviously up to in Turtleback Ferry) what Karzoug's forces have been up to in the past year and a bit? I can't help but think that if Mokmurian is left alone long enough he will discover more and more about Thassilonian magics and perhaps cause an even greater problem than he does in the original AP.
Although there might be something in Kingmaker to handle that, I'm not sure.
Good reading, I'm enjoying your campaign!
--Mike
I suppose that is a valid question. I run a dynamic world where PC decisions and indecision affects the world around them but I am not a slave to events happening as they are outlined in the time line. If the Giant attack doesn't happen for 3 or 4 years of game time, I'm fine with that and then everything relevant to that attack will just have been moved forward by those 3 or 4 years. If, for instance they weather the giant attack and don't go after the source then the source will come to them in its own time and form.
The short answer is: My PCs haven't heard anything about Karzoug and his forces so they don't really exist until the plot dictates they are needed.
I did some reading ahead and I may a bunch of HMM etc. until and unless my PCs start spoiling for a fight. If they push through HMM on the medium advancement chain, they won't be more than 8th level by the end of the adventure so it'll start getting really hard for them.
My preliminary plan is to have them liberate Ft. Rannick (which I think they can safely do at 7th level with help) and then stop things there.
If they are eager to do some kingdom building at this time, I'm ready for that and one of the first encounters will probably be with the Shimmerglens Nymph, whatever her name is, so my PCs can be the ones to tell her about the attack. She'll rush away, never to be seen in corporeal form again and the rest of that thread will make more sense than in the original HMM version.
I'll probably give my PCs a couple of months to explore, govern and wonder about the wet/snowy weather before I spring the dam encounter on them. There will be red herring evidence from that one that will lead to the troll site from KM#2 if they follow it.
If they decide to be aggressive about pursuing the runelords plot, I'll let them do that as well but I'll probably be forced to up the xp awards to speed things up a bit in that respect.
I updated my complete preparations in my campaign thread but I thought I'd update here on my decisions about what memories to give to each player:
- Dwarf Barbarian, basic raging warrior
---> He remembers seeing the murder list fall, remembers being questioned about it and remembers Xanesha being displeased about hearing the list is lost.
- Halfling Bard, history buff
---> I decided to go with a language teaser here. During some private sessions playing music for Xanesha, he overheard her speaking a few words in an unknown language (Thassilonian). Over the time spent in captivity, he recognizes words from the Giant, Varisian and Shoanti tongues. If he learns those languages in addition to being able to write Thassilonian, he will be able to piece together how it is spoken. He will be the first scholar to do so since the fall of the empire.
- Shoanti Cleric of Erastil, hunter, Animal and Community
---> I went with the crow animal companion idea (noting explicitly that he can change companions at any time) as he would have been kept cloistered because he is marked with the symbol of Erastil on his palm and thus could not see the world. The crow has taught him about some of the local geography, including the closest "man-nest" on the north shore of Claybottom Lake. Early after captivity, I have an encounter with another potential Animal Companion, a large (4th level druid's constrictor snake) Anaconda. He'll get a chance to tame the snake if he tries to and is successful.
- Human Rogue, pretty much evil - going for Shadowdancer
---> He was a card dealer and got to know the clients well but for some reason, he can't remember faces. He'll get a flashback about Kaven *after* they figure out that mystery.
- Human Wizard, blaster evoker
---> Remembers writing or drawing the Sihedron rune many times but does not remember where or with what medium. When they discover that they all have been tattooed, he will remember doing the tattooing and when they figure out that townsfolk have been tattooed as well, he will remember doing that for all the regulars.
- Human Fighter, reckless sword and board type
---> His memory involves being questioned soon after the group was captured. He remembers telling every last detail about their adventures to date including telling Xanesha that the group had told the city guard about their efforts in tracking down the "Star Murderer". This nugget combined with my Dwarf's will explain why she chose to stop murdering in Magnimar and move her operation to phase 2 at Turtleback Ferry.
- Human Water bloodline Sorcerer, also mostly a blaster
---> His player can't make it tomorrow so he is going to be in a state of severe amnesia after the escape. He won't remember his name, won't have any class abilities, nothing. Only with time to heal (and the player returning to the table), will he retrieve his lost identity.
I had 5/7 players in attendance so in order to keep continuity, I had the two missing characters be abducted by Xanesha's agents while the party was selling loot. This was needed because I needed all the characters in attendance, even if the spotlight was to be on 5 of them.
At this stage, my party has bypassed all kinds of opportunity for recon, scouting and intel from prisoners so had no idea what they were stumbling into at the clocktower. In typical cocky fashion they strolled right in, worried more about spell durations than combat tactics.
After an easy time of the golem and the staircase, the party dribbled onto the clocktower roof, spread out and didn't have a coordinated attack at all, with the sword specialist fighter choosing to not melee and each person going one at a time against Mme. Xanesha. Without flanking, without sneak attacks, without any serious buffs/debuffs it wasn't even a close fight. The PCs hit all but 1 of her mirror images and managed to do about 30 points of damage total.
I adjusted Xanesha's spear into a normal sized Halberd and added an ability that it could optionally do subdual instead of lethal damage (because I expected this could be a learning opportunity regarding future encounters in this adventure path and was pretty sure I'd TPK using Xanesha as written).
It was a slaughter and I couldn't be happier. Each character was beaten into submission with no deaths so I can move onto my plan I've been working on for several months:
At the end of the evening, I collected their character sheets and will have to transpose them to equipment-less versions for our next session "Charm Zombies and the Escape from the Paradise Barge". The other good part of this is I'll be able to assess and balance the party wealth if necessary. I think I'm pretty good on that front but we'll see.
I'm half prepared for next time (I have the maps of the barge done and I have the broad chain of events written out) but I need to work on specific descriptions, dialogue and whatnot. The broad strokes are:
1) PCs get a description of snatches of images from months in wisdom-drained captivity. They have endured a hell of forced servitude as oarsmen aboard the Paradise Barge. Their snippits will include images of some of their more recognizable adventuring gear as trophies adorning the walls of the gambling barge.
I think I will leak these dream snippits out over email over the coming days before our next session.
2) One evening in the late summer/early fall (8 months after the disaster at the clocktower) when the barge is full of patrons and out on an evening cruise, one of the other captives finally snaps and smashes a lamp on himself, starting a fire at the stern of the boat. The patrons jump overboard and lady Xanesha (in human form) descends the stairs to the bowels of the ship where the PCs are held locked in place by their wisdom-drained, charmed state. She quickly gathers a treasure box and tells her thralls something like "I suppose your service is nearly over my pets. You have done well in your part to pave the way for Karzoug's Return" and leaves before the fire spreads too far.
3) Once the fire does enough damage to the stern, the barge begins taking on water and once the cold lake water hits the feet of my PCs. At this point, they wake, I return them character sheets with next to no equipment, Wisdom values of 1, and they can start rescuing themselves - somehow - as the barge begins to list and take on water in earnest.
4) The PCs make it to shore having left a lot of their loot behind as decorations on the wall. There, they learn the history of the barge and discover that they have been tattooed with the Sihedron Rune at the base of their necks. They will probably take a break here to regain drained wisdom and interact with the people of Turtleback Ferry.
5) They mount an underwater return to the barge (Cleric + water breathing) and regain whatever loot remains for them there plus any clues I wish to plant to keep the plot moving forward, if at all.
One alternative is to leave them with only sparse clues and a bit of a Mystery and run some RRR Kingmaker stuff out of Turtleback Ferry (the Trolls, some of the Fey stuff, the Owlbear and the Lizard Men remain from that book). Then when I figure that the PCs are ready for a change and some plot, Fort Rannick will fall and we'll start HMM. I'm leaning towards this approach so my PCs can drive the agenda to whether they want to leave the Sihedron Rune and Xanesha stuff behind them or whether they want to pursue that with all their resources. If they do use their resources (and divinations and whatnot) they will arrive just a bit too late to save the Fort.
I'm running numerous side quests as I am running a 7 PC group and medium advancement. The Burnt Offerings ones included some drama between the Licktoad and the Birdcruncher goblin tribes that was exported (with minimal effort) from Kingmaker.
I was asked in another thread about what I was planning with the Stag Lord. Here is what I wrote before I ripped it out of there because the thread wasn't marked with Kingmaker Spoilers:
The Stag Lord is operating along the Lost Coast road between Magnimar and Sandpoint and his fort is in the moors in the deep bend of the Yondabakari River, due south of Sandpoint. I made wanted posters (per an idea in the KM forum) and posted them in the Rusty Dragon on the help wanted board. One of those posters was the original bounty for the unnamed bandits.
It read like this:
"Wanted for Banditry:
Capture or defeat more than five of the unknown bandits operating along the Lost Coast Road to send a message that such activities are not to be tolerated. A reward of no less than 400 pieces of gold is offered to anyone who achieves this feat.
So witnessed under the authority of the High Court of Magnimar granted by Lord-Mayor Haldmeer Grobaras and the Council of Ushers, through their loyal servant, Justice Ironbriar, this 10th day of Rova in the year 4707, AR"
Other wanted posters included:
- The blood of a troll, one pint - Nisk Tander, Bottled Solutions
- Wanted for theft - Orik Vankaskerkin (the one from Nualia's band) - Sheriff Belor
- Help Wanted: Guard Duty - Sandpoint Mercantile League
- Wanted: The Head of Tuskgutter, the notorious boar from Tickwood - Davrien Hosk, Goblin Squash Stables (collected)
A later poster went up after the raid on Sandpoint:
- Reward: for the return of Solsta Vinder's wedding ring that was taken by goblins at knifepoint during the Swallowtail Raid
That wedding ring went between the Birdcruncher Goblins (a.k.a. the Kobolds) and the Licktoad Goblins (a.k.a. the mites) per KM with the same NPC players. My PCs made peaceful contact with the Birdcrunchers, razed the Licktoads and then deposed Tartuk from the Birdcrunchers and retrieved the ring.
Anyway, my PCs have not taken up the Stag Lord thread yet (except for a half-hearted plan to do the guard duty to hope to bump into the bandits, which a number of the character did when their players couldn't make it to game night).
During last night's session Shalelu Andesona said that she was planning on travelling with some farmers taking cows to slaughter in Magnimar in hopes of bumping into the bandits herself. She had just bailed the group out after their first foray into Thistletop and so I wanted her out of the picture so the PCs knew their last gimme was used up (and also to give that sense that the world goes on, regardless of what the party does). Anyway, when the time is right, she will bump into the bandits and will collect the bounty and will have gotten information that the bandits are lead by the mysterious Stag Lord. Once the authorities know that the bandit leader is called the Stag Lord, the following wanted poster will appear:
"Wanted for Banditry and Murder
It has been determined by the High Court of Magnimar that the criminal operating along the Lost Coast Road known as the Stag Lord is guilty of egregious bandit activity in defiance of the great peoples of Varisia, and as such shall be put to death by sword or rope as is the law.
Any persons seeking to execute Charter shall not be lawfully hindered in the delivery of this sentence, and operating under the authority of the High Court of Magnimar, are promised a reward of no less than 3,000 pieces of gold for the capture or proof of death of the individual known as the Stag Lord.
So witnessed under the authority of the High Court of Magnimar granted by Lord-Mayor Haldmeer Grobaras and the Council of Ushers, through their loyal servant, Justice Ironbriar, this 28th day of Rova in the year 4707, AR"
You'll note that both of the official charters came under the authority of Justice Ironbriar, the person who actually pays the bounties out on behalf of the city of Magnimar. I hope that they will go after the second bounty and have a chance to meet the good Justice well before his role in the Skinsaw affair.
I disagree that hyper-accurate cartography is solely a product of the modern era. The astrolabe and compass are thousands of years old while spyglasses and sextants date back to the 17th and 18th centuries respectively. They were invented in those eras because of a desire and need for greater accuracy in cartography and navigation. Some of James Cook's maps from the 18th century were so precise that they were still in use up until the early 20th century. Any society advanced enough to have developed such tools (such as the Inner Sea region of Golarion) has a commensurate need for accurate maps. Accurate maps can win or loose wars and, in turn, can help turn countries into empires. Since that's what the PCs in Kingmaker are contemplating, I'd imagine that it would pay for them to invest in accurate maps. My ¢2.
While that's all true, I worry less about the nitty gritty of precise cartography and more about what is reasonable and fun for the PCs. James Cook took 5 years to produce this map of the coast of Newfoundland (an island that is something similar in size to the state of Maine, the benchmark for how large the Stolen Lands are):
Now, this map was made primarily from measurements taken at sea during the summer time, with the season's notes being compiled during the winter. Cook did not have monsters to fight, quests to complete, camp to strike and set or a kingdom to govern, and he still only managed to map the coastline. There is no differentiation between forested, swampy and clear areas and Newfoundland has 100's of lakes and 1000's of streams and rivers, that are not mapped in this masterpiece of cartography. I would argue that to produce a map whose detail of the interior landmarks that is equal to the coastal landmarks would have taken Cook 20 years, maybe? That all assumes that one could map the interior of a forest to that level of precision, which I doubt.
The kingmaker map hexes are 12 miles across, something like 100 square miles per hex. A horsebacked PC can "fully explore" any hex in one day, and can claim a hex to the kingdom in a month. Even in a game of superhuman talents, one would need at least a week per hex to attain the level of detail in Cook's charts.
I guess I imagine the PCs reasonably being able to generate something like these two contemporary maps of Hispaniola (Haiti and Dominican Republic):
Joseph Spear map Louis Drake map
You'll notice that while the coastlines are similar, there are differences and generalizations about what is where. The interior features are quite different. For scale, the fat part of Hispaniola is about 200 miles East-West (16 hexes) by about 100 miles North-South (8 hexes), or about the scale of the original Greenbelt Charter.
I would prefer to think that my PCs are generating maps similar to this one, which is overall pretty good and could be followed well:
World map
Having thought about this further, I would modify my DCs from my previous post to something like this:
- DC15 for a reasonably accurate sketched map that is followable by most people (i.e. a trained cartographer of reasonable skill could take 10 and do this). This could be done in a single day of mapping per hex and would produce a map that was accurate within a half mile. (This would be similar to the World map in terms of the scale of the inaccuracies).
- DC20 for an excellent map with almost no errors. This would take a week per hex and would produce a map accurate within a quarter mile. (This would be similar to the Hispaniola maps in terms of inaccuracies)
- DC25 for a perfect map with near-survey precision. This would take two weeks per hex and would produce a map accurate within 100'. (This would be similar to Cook's map.)
- DC30 for something like a satellite photo. This would take a month per hex and would produce a map accurate within 1'. (This would be similar to modern surveys or those of the planned, gridded ancient cities or around the pyramid site etc.)
+5 DC for difficult conditions (Fog, Rain, Dark - these would be cumulative). This also bumps the surveying time up to the next class.
-5 DC for mapping from a high point (Fly spell, dragon back, whatever). This also bumps the surveying time down to the next class.
If you're looking for an alternate opinion, I would say either Craft (Mapmaking) or Profession (Cartographer) but not both. Personally, I would go with the Profession but it's not a big deal either way. I would say that either skill should produce a reasonably accurate map akin to those produced during the 1400's-1500's+ age of exploration maps.
Perfect surveying is beyond the scale of what an explorer would be able to do in a couple of days in such a large hex and is most definitely an import from our hyper-accurate modern culture anyway. The best maps would be produced from Griffin-back or something but making maps of trees are here, hills are there, river bends like this should be a reasonably accessible skill without a huge outlay of skill points.
DC15 for a reasonably accurate map that is followable by most people (i.e. a trained cartographer of reasonable skill could take 10 and do this)
DC20 for an excellent map with almost no errors
DC25 for a perfect map with near-survey precision
DC30 for something like a satellite photo
+5 DC for difficult conditions (Fog, Rain, Dark - these would be cumulative)
-5 DC for mapping from a high point (Fly spell, dragon back, whatever)
What do I do? Give me some ideas. I don't want to just jump back into combat with Xanesha. How should I handle this?
I have an elaborate plan for this eventuality and I actually hope I can whip up a TPK because I think it's so cool.
My plan for a TPK at the Clocktower is to have the PCs be taken by Xanesha up to Turtleback Ferry and forced to work on the Paradise barge, through a combination of wisdom drain and repeated charms/dominates. This would then mean that Xanesha replaces Leucretia as they are the same person. In this scenario, I would have Xanesha pick up the missing Rogue (after interrogating the other PCs) and I would put them all on the barge together.
Once they are on the barge, they would exist in a living death as charm/dominate slaves for some time (months? a year maybe? - probably just enough time to have the timeline make sense for it to be early winter up there), stripped of their identities and their will and made to serve drinks, cook and clean. Eventually, while the PCs are in the hold somewhere, one of the other slaves in the kitchen goes mad and suicidally lights himself on fire, starting a fire in the barge in general and causing it to sink.
Xanesha (in human form) then looks down into the hold, and smiles saying something about them having served their purpose anyway and leaves the PCs to die and goes away to organize the attack on Fort Rannick.
When the cold water of the lake hits the PCs' feet (think the rising water in the lower decks in Titanic), they snap out of their charm and are able to act. They have within their reach the ability to escape from the hold (haven't worked this out yet - I'm imagining an axe or something to cut their way out of the hold as it sinks) and swim to the surface, seeing on the way that many of their possessions were up on the walls in the gambling areas of the barge. They could then return to the barge at the bottom of the lake (water breathing) and retrieve the rest of their gear (probably missing gold and some items) and maybe get some clues about Xanesha's motivations etc. and get any missing treasure or XP they need to get to the next part of the story with a reasonable chance of success.
If you need to add any PCs in the process (i.e. if your Barbarian was dead dead and the player wants a new character), they are on the barge too.
I really appreciated your report, I hope you and your mates will continue enjoying this double campaign, it seems a very good idea to me... and I'll continue reading your notes if you'll continue posting those.
Greycloak of Bowness wrote:
Stuff about wanted posters
Thanks.
Since you quoted my wanted posters (an idea I took from the KM discussion) I have several more posters ready to put up in the coming weeks:
- The first is a reward from Ven Vinder for the recovery of his wife Solsta's wedding ring that was stolen at knife-point during the Swallowtail attack. This ring will be held by the Birdcrunchers, having stolen it from the Licktoads in an inter-goblin raid.
- The second will go up if the PCs ignore the banditry threat for 3 or 4 weeks. This one will name the Stag Lord specifically stating that he has been convicted of the capital crimes of murder and banditry. This one will have been issued by Judge Ironbriar, whose jurisdiction includes Sandpoint and the hinterlands within a day's ride.
- The third will be a wanted poster for a pair of Con Artists (the ones who end up being the first murders at the beginning of skinsaw). I am planning on having these swindlers target the PCs once they have some walking around money. My idea there is to have the Con Artists try to sell the PCs a house in Sandpoint that is currently furnished but unoccupied (the rightful owners are in Magnimar for a wedding).
Warning: there will be abundant spoilers for both Kingmaker and Rise of the Runelords in this thread. I will refrain from talking about what I have in mind too far in the future so if you're a player in Kingmaker and are in the second adventure, I won't be talking about what elements I'll be pulling from it until the PCs get to a comparable level.
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After several years of playing, we finally finished our Shackled City campaign and it's my turn for the GM's chair. I've been planning a RotR campaign for a long time and once Kingmaker came out, I saw an opportunity to move some of the kingdom-building elements from that campaign to the area around Fort Rannick. My plan is to run the Runelords campaign as an overall plot and to extract encounters from Kingmaker to inject some more sandboxiness for the PCs and to slow the pace down some. If they choose to stay on the Runelords railroad, it's up to them; if they choose to wander, that's fine too. To accomodate this, the PCs will be advancing on the Medium Track with reduced quest XP from the Kingmaker path.
We started last weekend and the characters are:
Wyndham - Human (Chelaxian) rogue from Korvosa. He is a fast-talker, a thief and is ethically on the darker side. He was recruited by Nualia to take part in the Swallowtail Festival raid and decided to betray her and play hero.
Jal - Human (Varisian) ranger from the Turtleback Ferry hinterlands. He was orphaned by a Kreeg raid and is hoping to join the Black Arrows once he gains some combat experience.
Amonon - Elf cleric of Saranrae from Meiriani. He was an herbalist before wanderlust struck and made his way south. He was asked by his order to be Saranrae's representative for the Sandpoint Cathedral consecration ceremony.
Arcanen Valdemar - Human (Chelaxian) Sorceror with water elemental bloodline (Neirid in the family tree), scion of the Valdemar family of Sandpoint. He is a bit of egotistical and a know-it-all.
Jarek - Human (Shoanti, Shirrikirri Quah) hunter with the elk totem from the Curchain Hills. He is physically fragile (4 Con) and so was unsuccessful as a warrior. He has always had a way with animals and has certain unexplained knacks (he can tell unclean from clean water, he can focus himself to hit well with his bow, he has never been bothered by warm or cold days). His totem quest led him to Sandpoint. What he, the character, doesn't know is that he has been chosen by Erastil and all these "knacks" are actually Erastil's power manefesting through him.
Abinscole - Halfling (Culturally Chelaxian) Bard from Magnimar. He is an amateur historian and is interested in the monuments that dot the lowlands of Varisia. So far he is more interested in documenting the story than being a major part of it.
Richard - Human (Chelaxian) Fighter from Cheliax. He comes from a rich and powerful family there but had a falling out and fled by ship to make his own fortune. He travels with his dog, his sword and armour and the clothes on his back. His ship landed in Sandpoint and he decided to stay for a few days for the festival.
I couldn't find one elsewhere so I mapped my vision of the Paradise Barge from HMM. I made it out of a turtle shell and gave it oars so the gambling patrons could go on little cruises powered by wisdom-drained charm zombies (that will include my PCs if I can manufacture a TPK back at the clocktower in Skinsaw).
(snip)Is it just me, or does it seem like Nualia was being helped by the agents of Greed to assist in the machinations of Wrath? Or is Nualia a "Double agent" between the two? I'm not sure that's even possible, since Nualia has limited knowledge on whats going on with the Runelords, she's just a pawn in the entire thing. The entire book of Burnt Offerings is tied to Wrath, but then skips over into Greed without explaining why.
I'm very confused about how this is supposed to mesh together, storyline wise. I think that perhaps it was just an oversight by the writers between books one and two?
Nualia and now Erylium are direct servants of Lamashtu first and foremost, not servants of any Runelord, except accidentally.
Nualia came to have the Sihedron mediallion (that Karzoug knows nothing about) because the Skinsaw Men "saw her as a kindred spirit" after she murdered her ex-boyfriend in Magnimar. Perhaps the plan was to draw her into their (the Skinsaw Mens') web eventually but there is no implication that she was aware of their plans with respect to the ritual murders and the mark of the sihedron as it goes in the following adventures.
The more I read the kingdom rules, the more disappointed I am by the total uselessness of forests. Makes you wonder what all the trouble with the lads in Sherwood was about IRL. I suspect that one reason they got downplayed is that nowadays, most players and GMs, if they cook at all, do so with invisible fuels like electricity or piped gas, rather than dung, wood, or charcoal. If anyone else is bothered by this, I'd suggest letting forests with roads in them contribute one point towards Consumption (half a farm). That way you break even on claiming them.
Is there any rules reason not to do this? And if not, exactly why are elves willing to fight to protect these barren wastelands, and why do humans bother to try and exploit them? Are the humans so young and stupid that they know no better? Are the elves as leafy-minded as bloody-minded dragons that need their shiny hoards?
Swamps, deserts and tundra I can see as being net costs.
As for mountains and how dwarves or anything manages to subsist in the underdark, I figure they work off an alternate food chain. One where lichens and fungi are not so much lithavores as they are neutrinosynthesizers.
I am planning on using the KM rules for a Rise of the Runelords campaign and the kingdom's starting location (Turtleback Ferry) is exclusively surrounded by forest, swamp, lakes and mountains for a very long distance so I have this problem too. My solution was to expand the definition of "Farm" and make all of the non-mountain hexes farm-able but to up the BP cost to do so:
2BP - Grassland
4BP - Hills or Lake Front/Coastal (requires a pier in an adjoining city hex, representing it being "farmed" for fish, seaweed etc.)
6BP - Swamp (rice paddies, fishing)
8BP - Forest (hunting, logging, bee keeping, orchards, mushroom gathering, whatever an elf eats)
I suppose you could add dwarf agriculture in the mountains for a price too but I intend to keep mu PCs kingdom hedged back.
I am thinking about adding elements from the Kingmaker adventure path to my Rise of the Runelords campaign after the PCs liberate Fort Rannick. Specifically, I intend one of the PCs to become Baron Rannick, ruling over a 5-hex domain near Turtleback ferry and leaving it up to them what to do with what I am naming the county of Rannickshire. If they run with it, I would expand the timeline between the third and fourth modules and would likely relocate the Sandpoint attack to whatever city the PCs build.
To this end, I superimposed a 12 mile hex grid on the Varisia (and Turtleback ferry and Sandpoint Hinterlands) map and added in my interpretation of the holdings of the various political entities out there:
I was surprised by how large a hex is - essentially the first two RotR modules take place in about half a hex.
I guess I'm most interested in feedback about what I've done, about the political boundaries as I have defined them and in what people think about mashing these different themes together.
