Grór's page

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:

"What - you played MERP? Or even Rolemaster? With all those complicated critical tables?"

You cracked me up with this one-glad we can razz each other a bit!

Actually, I was referring to playing D&D in Middle-earth, which worked wonderfully once we tweeked the rules a bit to reduce the magic & such (different strokes), however, also played MERP a couple of times. You were right on this one, too "crunchy" for me.

At any rate, take care & hope you're having good gaming!

Grór wrote:

Rant: What happened to this game?!

For what it's worth I agree with you totally, Gror, but unfortunately we're in the minority. D&D is turning into Warhammer before our very eyes, and Warhammer is just a soul-less corporate business squeezing money out of expensive miniatures. It's not roleplaying, but apparently WotC aspires to that operational model. Sure, the rules have been fixed and are patently more logical, but a game of imagination and creativity has been turned into a tactical board game.

Thank you very much Krypter!

I appreciate your candor & taking a chance of incurring the wrath of our fellow gamers.

Did you notice that the only other posts responding to mine concern rules mongers LOL?

Well, I love gaming & still look forward to getting back into it again, however, I suspect that if I do DM in 3.5 I'll probably try to meet players who are not as rules-intensive & just want to have fun & develop more characters & plots. We use to play in Middle-earth & it was a blast. Hmm. Maybe newbies who aren't tainted by the rules (rolls eyes).

Seriously though, thanks again & hang in there, cause reading other websites convinces me that more of us than WOTC/Paizo realize probably feel that something is off the tracks with the game, however, they needed to fix broken rules & appeal to the Anime (sp?) & Manga generation raised on video games with incredible graphics, films with superlative CGI, make money off minis & so on.

Different strokes & all that. If that's what works for you, fine, it's just not my thing & since this is a rant, I figured I'd throw in my 2 pence.

D&D still rocks for all of its faults, it's just that now I see why I meet so many gamers who say "I use to play D&D but moved on to (fill-in the blank) which is a better system because..." bwah, bwah, bwah.

If you're one of those gamers you know exactly what I mean. If not, that's fine too, whatever works for you.

For a laugh about gaming, check this out:

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?cat=14

Rant: What happened to this game?!

I love D&D. I started over 30 years ago & had some of the original sets, however, took a hiatus for a bit due to that nasty ole habit of trying to have a life.

Well, stunning graphics, revising rules to fix 'em, & all of the talk about 3rd Ed., OGL, D20, etc., convinced me to check out 3.5.

I've now played with 4 DMs in 3 groups over the past year & my reaction is WTF happened to this game?!!!

The reason I bounce around is cause I keep telling myself that it can't be this bad & it must be the DMing, yet, now I'm convinced that the game has a great deal to do with it. I want to meet quality gamers & possibly DM myself again, but this is getting old.

1. Minis. Yes, RPGs emerged from wargaming & WOTC & Paizo are businesses & want to make money, fine, however, the game is so minis-intensive that it's losing sight of character & plot development. Think that's mis-placed sentimentality?

If you're a DM, watch your players' faces & reactions very carefully. During my experiences with 1st & 2nd Ed. (for all of their problems), players mostly interacted with each other & DMs. They LOOKED at each other more often than not.

Glance around your table now & note how often your friends stare down at the mat watching their minis & waiting for their fricking "five-foot step" crap. WTF? Yes, 3.5 corrects rules that certainly need tweeking & in the process butchers it. Watch your players carefully. You'll see exactly what I mean.

2. Speaking of which, movement into battle drags like watching water boil. Every one of those 4 DMs does it like this: "You advance five feet, turn, adjust for the contour increment, enter his square, thus provoking an attack of opportunity, though you can take a five-foot step..."

Argh! One game averaged 15-20 minutes per round, just waiting for the DM to work his way around the table to me again. Yes, you need to account for some of these actions & yes those are the rules but you DM's just skip this crap & tell your players:

"You charge past the assassin, who swings at you & just narrowly misses, then you reach the wizard & thrust," bwah, bwah, bwah.

The point is, pick-up the pace & skip a lot of this BS.

Have you ever noticed how often your munchkin players get wound-up about this stuff, yet, after the game or next session most everyone forgets about it & just wants to play? Most of the arguing over rules frankly just wastes time & isn't important.

3. Prestige classes. 'Nuff said. People, a fighter is still just a fighter, even if you have fancy names & feats. Of course there are historically different styles & techniques. I'm a historian & love that stuff & even I realize that most players don't really care & just want to play & have fun.

4. Feats. Whoa. How many frickin feats do we need to replicate basically the same actions? Every time you do you just bog-down the game with more rules from the way we use to do it. It's called "winging-it" & it works well if you're a DM with half a brain. No one wants to be looking at books or arguing about rules in the midst of a battle.

Just make a decision on the spot & stick to it. If you're fair & everyone's having fun, most players won't care that much. The ones who do are your problem players & there are entire posts about how to deal with 'em.

5. Having to purchase every book under the sun. I'm getting to the point that when I see someone walk in with an armful of books I immediately get worried LOL

'Nuff said, rant finished. Don't flame me, I'm just very, very disillusioned at what they've done to this game & if I can meet some players who don't care about 2/3 of the rules & just want to have fun & enjoy RPGing I'm set...

U1 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh. It's still one of the best, IMHO...

Hey The Gneech (John)!

That sounds like a great idea. I tried to contact you, however, am unable to on here for some inexplicable reason, so if you want to discuss Middle-earth gaming please drop me a line or leave your email & we can talk about getting some people together in our area. It sounds like an exciting idea:)

If I get a chance I'm going to try to place a post over at the WOTC board for gamers as well.

BTW, I read some of your other posts & your cracks about the Elves & such give me a chuckle-well done!

Grór (Mark)

The Hall of Fire website is: http://halloffire.org/

This is an incredible source for gaming in Middle-earth, & I have no problem converting the characters, sites, etc., to D&D.

Good stuff:)

farewell2kings wrote: “Gror---your game sounds like a lot of fun. You've obviously put the necessary work into it to make it work, which is commendable.”

Thanks! You can always tell when someone loves & appreciates Middle-earth. Yes, we've had a blast over the years & I look forward to many more. It's a great setting with so many RPG possibilities.

Tiger Lily: I can’t agree more with you concerning the interior maps, especially Nazgûl’s Citadel. Argh. They also drove me nuts & I sold my module. Ditto for most of ‘em. Some of the other maps are classics, however, especially the ones for Cirith Ungol & Shelob’s Lair.

If any of you are interested in a couple of great Middle-earth RPG sources, the postings on here concerning Decipher's LOTR are correct, & it's a great system, though a shame that it died so quickly. Nonetheless, pop over to their website if you get a chance & go to their LOTR RPG board & look for the links to the Hall of Fire (HOF). HOF is a fan generated webzine by Gandalf of Borg, AKA Matthew Kearn, & it's produced with TLC.

He lists it every month on his link as a pdf, it's free & very accurate to Middle-earth. While you can't use the crunchy bits as much as you'd like if you're using D&D, as most of us presumably are, you can easily use the characters, plots, settings, etc., for D&D without any problems. It's a great source.

Another is the old Enworld D20 conversions for Middle-earth, which you can still find buried on their boards if you dig around. Some great goodies.

Yes, we played in Middle-earth for years & loved it. Hands down, one of the richest & most rewarding fantasy settings.

We played D&D, AD&D & AD&D 2nd. as each incarnation of the game evolved, as well as a little bit of MERP. The other posts are right on concerning the latter. MERP is a great system if you like that type of minutia in your battles, however, for all of their beautiful modules & maps, they never quite captured the "feel" of Middle-earth, IMHO.

We tweeked D&D & it seemed to work just fine, IF you modify the magic & such accordingly. That's where you run into problems, IE: if your players love the rules verbatim & enjoy power-gaming, metagaming, et al, whichever terms apply, they may not enjoy the restrictions if you try to keep things canon & reduce the magic to a more Tolkien like feel.

It all depends on how close you want to keep things to the books. Accurate games probably mean eliminating some D&D staples, & some gamers may not feel comfortable with that. We always tried to keep things as close as possible, & I continue to do so as a DM today.

That said, it's a blast if you want to develop detailed plots & characters full of life. We began in T.A. 2941 (that's the year of The Hobbit if you don't have the books handy) & progressed through the War of the Ring. Man, it was fun! We were in the North & had to battle Sauron's (& after his treason, Saruman's) minions in their attempts to reestablish the old Witch-realm of Angmar. Some of the best adventures I've ever had the joy of DMing/playing.

I've been spending a lot of time attempting to convert 00 of pp of plots, NPCs, notes & such into 3.5 & am just finishing up (it's tough when you also want to have a life LOL ) & am now searching here, the WOTC boards, etc., for gamers in NOVA who want to play 3.5 in Middle-earth.

We're now in F.A. 1: three years after the war & Sauron's fall. It's kinda cool cause there are possibilities about surviving servants of the Shadow who escaped & are plotting & scheming...

PS: James, read some of the posts concerning level advancements & how quickly characters shoot up.

I agree with 'em that XPs & making levels in this AP is far too fast. Again, not trying to start a rant, just my personal tastes concerning balance.

We're already 2nd level PCs on our way to 3rd in just the first adventure! (Rolls eyes in disgust).

James: I have to agree with you concerning this AP, & for that matter, 3.5 in general.

The other posts on here are correct regarding our responsbility as the DMs to make it rich & exciting for our players, however, for all the great plotlines this is basically an awfully lot of dungeon crawls & what we ole timers use to term "hack & slash."

I'm taking a hiatus from DMing & am playing, mainly to learn more of 3.5 (which, if we're being honest, sure does focus an awfully lot on battle & minis), & we're just finishing the first adventure in the Cairn & I'm already bored, which bodes poorly for the future adventures:) Seriously though, the way the thing is set up, there really isn't much motivation for critically thinking PCs to go trouncing off to investigate the Whispering Cairn other than the usual rumors, get rich, bwah, bwah, bwah, sort of plotline.

I'm trying everything I can think of to get into it as a character & even connected myself to Allustan as a potential apprentice or student, & still, the only reason we are there is cause he thinks something may be going on. Yawn. Our players repeatedly ask ourselves why we're here, what we're doing, etc.

Now, that means that our DM has dropped the ball a bit as well, though I'm stumped how he can salvage this if this is the AP. I read these posts & it appears that there are a ton of dungeon crawls ahead of us (double yawn).

I guess it boils down to different strokes & all that. I'm not in any way burned out & haven't played that much for a long time, so that's not the reason. I only write this extensive rant (if you will) cause I want you to know that you're not the only one.

Have you ever noticed how often the letters in Dungeon concern dungeon crawls & how much many players seem to love 'em? I have to wonder about that. Once in a while, yes, however, let's be honest: probably 2/3 of the adventures in this AP aren't much more, though some of 'em apparently rock, such as the comments made here concerning the arena & Redhand, etc., where there is more role playing.

Like everyone says, if you are burned out, take some time off & play another game, or pour yourself into your Saltmarsh setting, which sounds like it will be more fun, cause you're developing the plots & characters. Or play another system. It's a shame that you guys will probably split up after college, however, there are plenty of other players out there & you'll have another group before you know it.

BTW, I was going to purchase the hardbound of the AOWAP when (if) they issue it, however, I'm not so sure after actually playing in it...

'Fraid I have to agree with the posts concerning your "metagaming" druid. Her character would not have a clue concerning what's on the other side.

If she wants to continue, however, that Abyssal Ghoul or (if they somehow get past him-you just never know with good players LOL) any of the other critters waiting within should do the trick.

Now, you don't want a TPK, so it's a tough call. Perhaps another encounter in between? Or, Allustan or someone sends them a message concerning a race against another band, such as the Seekers or Kullen's boyz to beat 'em to the punch?

The point is, they apparently need some urgency to stick with the (albeit) linear plot line. We're just finishing the Cairn & it's a bit of a linear dungeon crawl without some work, though well rewarding to get through it.

BTW, we hosed Kullen's boyz & Filge (in separate encounters). Both were highly rewarding:) Color spray is a greatly unappreciated spell against the right foes...

I second David's comments. Wolfgang did a brilliant job on the Ghouls that still makes me shudder (meaning smile sadistically as a DM).

An Underdark adventure without Drow as the principal antagonists? In 3.5? Oh yeah...

Talion said: "Now a 12 adventure AP (Say levels 8-20) in the vein of Slavers, Against the Giants and then into the Spider Queen to wrap up fighting Lolth at 20th level..."

Oh I am so there. This would be an incredible combination. Can you imagine running your heroes through this AP? Choice...

Wolfgang: Just have to tell you how much I love your adventures, especially any concerning true ghouls!

Ever since #70 with your Kingdom of the Ghouls article I've been eagerly searching each issue for your entries.

You write up beautifully professional descriptions of cunning, loathesome, terrifying foes that make adventurer's days very uncomfortable, if not short lived. Well done!

I'm also going to modify Moreto as per the other posts & then throw him at the unsuspecting meals, er, heroes (insert fiendish laugh).

I look forward to your next sadistic entires with relish...

James: You guys rock! Working that late on a Friday to get us our goodies (such as the Mud Sorcerer's Tomb)? Even with those slaver Orcs thrashing you that's pretty cool:)

Speaking of slavers, I'm sure you've been plagued to death on this one, however, The Scourge of the Slave Lords or Slavers would be an incredible 3.5 AP...

You raise some excellent points here Don.

I can't agree more with the concept of the cultists disguising themselves to avoid both recognition (secrecy & subversion) & persecution.

Ditto for the disparate cults.

My original intention, however, was & is to wet the PC's appetites by throwing them several additional handouts & the like during the course of play. It's just something I like to do cause it seems to work reasonably well by helping players to connect with plots that may seem disjointed at particular times depending upon the circumstances. If you're a DM, you've probably been there:)

At any rate, this gives them lead ins & clues to the comings & goings & breathes life into the characters. The AOWAP is a great campaign, however, we all like to "tweek" things a bit.

Man, I love this game:)

Bill, Mark:

Thank you very much, these are great!

I'm going to try to draw these up &/or access the imagery & see which one most tickles my sadistic DM fancy (insert maniacal laughter).

Seriously, thanks again for your help, these are fantastic!

Mark

James: Is there a symbol of the Ebon Triad?

If yes, do you have an image we can download? (for personal use only).

The reason I ask is that I'd love to let the PCs stumble onto it as a scroll for a hand out at some point.

Thanks!

“I do not know, ‘answered Gandalf; ‘but the arms were all guided by one purpose. Something has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters under the mountains. There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.”

Tolkien, J.R.R. The Red Book of Westmarch, I, A Journey in the Dark, p. 323.

Does anyone know the symbol of the Ebon Triad?

If yes, do you know of an image we can download? (for personal use only).

The reason is that I'd love to let the PCs stumble onto it as a scroll for a hand out at some point.

Thanks!

“I do not know, ‘answered Gandalf; ‘but the arms were all guided by one purpose. Something has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters under the mountains. There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.”

Tolkien, J.R.R. The Red Book of Westmarch, I, A Journey in the Dark, p. 323.

This is very moving.

I've been playing D&D since the 1970's (one of the first several thousand gamers probably) & haven't seen anything like this since I can remember.

After a long hiatus from gaming due to that nasty ole thing about having to pay bills:) I've been considering getting back into gaming. I've been balancing it with feeling overwhelmed about the industry's trends, such as D20/3.5 (though loving the graphics), to remembering what a blast we use to have.

Sssooo, I've been reading postings & Dragon & Dungeon & your gesture of generousity & courtesy has sold me Lisa on Paizo & on returning to gaming!

Jarjaxle, I hope things work out for you. As others post; I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to lose all the years of work in a single shot due to some punk(s).

At any rate, I love the AOWAP & will probably snag up the STAP, which has some great ideas.

Grór (Mark)

“I do not know, ‘answered Gandalf; ‘but the arms were all guided by one purpose. Something has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters under the mountains. There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.”

Tolkien, J.R.R. The Red Book of Westmarch, I, A Journey in the Dark, p. 323.