Gortle me a Gortle's page

Gortle me a Gortle wrote:

me! I was quoted! disclaimer: this is not the actual quote

Insisting that your preferred choices have no downsides at all is …

not what I said

and while I’m sure you didn’t mean it intentionally, misparaphrasing someone’s argument in a way which non-trivially changes the argument that was made is typical of those who are less tolerant than of those who are more tolerant

as you’ve said, you agree with the move Paizo is making
and as I said, I’m sure you unintentionally transmogrified my argument into something other than what it actually is

…

P.S. is it wrong for me to add
“I choose you pikachu!”

when an entity makes a correct move, which has very little yet not zero downside, or has a small yet I guess could be meaningful to some who isn’t vested in a negative way to what the change removed, then commenting in the style of
- I agree with that move yet please remember there is a cost to every decision

then yeah, that is a sort of wutabutism
which is problematic when the upside:downside ratio so vastly outweighs any possible argument against (when the upside includes removing even ‘incorrectly inferable’ or passive support for extremists and haters, it’s hard to imagine a downside that makes that ratio problematic)
worse, those who are against the decision that was made will see such comments as support for their view and gain succor from that perception

this is another aspect of normalizing hate

I will not apologize for
Comforting the afflicted, afflicting the comfortable.

Nor for not just being a proponent of but trying to actively do my part to see that the underdog and underprivileged are provided a voice.

Where I come from that doesn’t make me noble or kind or … it just makes me not a total jerk. I can still be jerky in many many ways, just not by being a non-egalitarian.
(though some will argue the reason I’m not a total backsidehat is only because parts are missing)

here is a story I am sure some, or even many, have heard a variation of
so a handful-ish of years back while I’m on the road, I end up in a lil mom&pop restaurant/bar
you know, a local joint, not a chain, a place where every customer counts because the bottom line is tight but hey, they like owning a place of their own and such
not in the countryside yet in a place near a major urban center which has grown to where this place is more like on an outer edge of a suburb than in a lil town surrounded by farmland

I’m sitting there nursing my beer before I go crash for the night when the door opens, I look over and see a kid (ok, young adult) in a leather jacket and punkish haircut
I do not think anything about it
the meal I just had was delicious and very reasonably priced, we’re not far from the metropolitan area so I figure the guy knows good food and is getting some

a moment later I hear the proprietress telling him to get out of her establishment and the proprietor stepping out from the kitchen ready to back her up
the dude leaves

next time she’s nearby, I ask, “what was that all about?”

you didn’t see the front of his jacket or the shirt he had on open for all to see - a bunch of hate symbols and other BS

you see, that’s how it starts, they send one of the more polite, cleaner cut peeps to a place; then a few nights later he’s there with another friend, also friendly enough, then the next time, it’s 3 or 4 and they sit at the bar chatting, nothing overtly awful yet ready to engage with anyone over hearing what they say
then their numbers grow, their talk ain’t so polite, the initial friendly ones have been sent off to the next place to do the same and you’re sitting there wondering
How in the world did my establishment become a hangout and recruitment place for haters and extremists?
had that happen to too many
most closed down and we all cried about it

so yeah, of course I kicked his stupid backside out
that is not gonna happen on my watch

haters spreading hate?

I thought I had a decent idea of what a "dog whistle" is. Now apparently the definition includes idioms with checkered pasts (i.e. "grandfathered in" or "rule of thumb"), …

Rule of Thumb has a folk mythology regarding how a man may beat his wife

on the other hand, Grandfathered In has a very clear and undeniably racist origin
and while I cannot speak to anything but the experiences I’ve experienced or observed, the place I work has clear policies about dog whistling and Grandfathered In is included therein
the fact that people consider this dog whistle phrase as innocuous - or not even a dog whistle today - shows how pervasive this type of ‘under the radar’ sliding has become
there are two main ‘priorities’ to dog whistles
- bad actors calling out to other bad actors using code
- bad actors trying to infiltrate the populace and get them to use (that is, often repeat) the dog whistling
so what’s up with that second one?
it not only normalizes coded hate speech, it also gives the haters a way of recruiting because when they see someone using such phrasing’s or memes or … they know that person was open to mimicking the hate speech and might share the hater’s views, so they try to lure them from using ‘Grandfathered In’ to having a ‘chat’ about ‘in my granddaddy’s day …’ to joining, oh, I don’t know, some sort of rally while carrying a tiki torch or something

as always, your mileage may vary
which is why being an inclusive society requires some self regulation (a level of minor activity which many dislike even having to consider doing, let alone doing - they’ll waste more time & energy railing about why they aren’t being exclusive or why they should be allowed to be such or … than it would take if they self educated and acted upon their new learnings)

As was said by another member, dog whistles are hate speech and should be marked as such.

thank you

dog whistles are, by definition, hate speech

while it is possible the one using the dog whistle phrasing is unaware of the dog whistling context, the speaker being uninformed of any such underlying content doesn’t change hate speech to something else
it is still, by definition, hate speech

that only means the speaker was poorly informed (and hopefully has interest in learning so as to not repeat inadvertently using and propagating hate speech)

I am honestly just so tired of feeling like …

this is so spot on, so well written … words fail me

thank you

here is a take of a word usage that might help to understand the nature of how pervasive an exclusionary term can be yet not be seen as the dogwhistle it actually is

after the American Civil War, a large group of people still wanted to be biased, bigoted racists and not allow former slaves - or anyone who appeared like they could be one - to have rights (all sorts of rights)

so they made these policies and worded them in this sort of a manner
If your grandfather had this right, then you automatically have that right.
If your grandfather did not have this right, then you have to jump through these hoops or you cannot have that right.
and they applied this to many many things like voting, like running for political office, like owning property, like just about any avenue through which one could acquire prosperity or power
and this was called
Being Grandfathered In
have you ever heard that term used?
did you know it has an extremely racist, exclusionary origin?
well you might not yet there are many that do
and those that are aware of its etymology and hold those same beliefs will use it as a sort of code, a dog whistle, to both call to others of their ilk and indoctrinate the general populace towards their beliefs through repeated exposure to the bigotry and hate

that is what a dog whistle is

if you didn’t know and someone said
yo! that’s a dog whistle for bigots and racists!
then maybe it’s be nice if you said
whoa!?! really?!?
then took sometime to do some research and better inform yourself

of course, another dog whistle is to respond to that type of an exchange with
you called it out, you must take the time and effort and energy and … to educate me as to why what you claim is fact is actually fact
when someone tells you 2 plus 2 equals 4 do you go
wait a minute there! are you sure? you best be explaining yourself!

the problem is dog whistles are, for the most part, explicitly designed to be subtle and coded and not blatantly obvious

yet they are massively pervasive - like saying ‘grandfathered in’
that is, they are designed to get someone who isn’t inherently on the side of the dog whistlers to use them and normalize them