So I figure I will not beat around the bush on this and go straight to the meat and potatoes.
Tonight at my PFS game I had a level 9 (Fighter 1 Unchained Monk 8) playing at the table. The parts of the build that matter are as follows:
Improved Trip/Greater Trip/Vicious Stomp
Leg Sweep
Improved Sunder/Greater Sunder
Pummeling Style
Combat Reflexes
The long and short was he would wade into combat against 2 opponents. (In example I double charged with two NPCs toward him since he was out in the open compared to the group.)
He would start with his flurry call the first strike as a leg sweep that he connects with and then follows up with the free trip.
The trip succeeds to which he then follows it up with two AOOs (one from greater trip and one from vicious stomp) I know all of this is legal so far from other FAQs
The two AOOs he then said he converted to Sunders against the weapon. (Still know this is acceptable from other FAQs)
The question comes at this point when he said that pummeling style would combine the two AOOs damage before applying the hardness.
He then with his second attack on the flurry converted the second attack to a trip attempt and did the double AOO Sunder vs the second enemies weapon (Once again using pummeling to combine before hardness)
My question is does it really work this way. From what I can tell it might as it says total the damage from all the hits before applying the reduction. I just figured I would see what you guys think.
First I am sorry for posting this here. For some reason I was unable to post this to the actual play test forums so if a mod could move this over there it would be appreciated. Thank you in advance and sorry for giving you work.
Before I get to the play test aspect just a few notes and statements I want to give. Feel free to scroll past if you wish not to read it.
GenCon, like always, it was an amazing time. If you have not had the chance to go I highly encourage you do so as sitting with 1000+ PFS members is an amazing feeling.
To Mike Brock. Thank you for your years of hard work and service to our community. No plaque alone given to you at GenCon can say thank you enough for the amount of hours of hard work you have put into to help make this a great society and guild of gamers. Good luck in wherever you go in the future. Always know you have a path back and you will always be welcomed by the players of PFS.
To my table GM and the Author of Under the Ice - Thank you so much for making this game an amazing experience. I was luckily able to sit at the author of the mods table where he created an amazing 3D Map to go with the mission. It was truly amazing and I was glad I was able to experience this. He was both a great GM as well produced a very well written mod. I am looking forward to the next one that he puts out.
Onto the play test part of this post. (The main reason for this post)
My build.
Vigilante 3 - Warlock Specialization
Stats - 10 Str / 16 Dex / Con 14 / Int 14 / Wis 10/ Cha 14
Race - Human (Have to pay your taxes)
Faction - Sovereign Court (Not supposed to talk about this lol)
Traits - Contract Master (Because I too think the social side should be able to pick up languages to speak to other nations and people)
Influential (Because who couldn't use more diplomacy)
Feats - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Two Weapon Fighting (Told you I had to pay my taxes)
Weapon - Long Bow (Nothing special here just a bow)
Armor - Four Mirror Armor (Went more exotic to increase the look between my characters for story reasons and thematic reasons)
Social Grace - Diplomacy (See above about diplomacy)
Vigilante Spec (Warlock)
Arcane Training 1
Warlock Talent - Arcane Strike
Skills of importance - (AKA what I put points in)
Bluff +9 - Diplomacy +15/+11 - Disguise +28/+8 - Intimidate +8 - Knowledge Local +8 - Linguistics +9 - Perception +8 - Sense Motive +6 - Spellcraft +8 - UMD +8
Only spells used in mod to note - Infernal Healing, Thunder Stomp and detect magic.
And now onto the greater details about the adventure
Spoiler:
First and for most about 3/4 of the mission was a RP heavy game. This was because the aspect of my handler (AKA the social side) was able to shine with the diplomacy to help win over the NPCs I came across.
At one point things got a little dicey and I was able to intimidate as my vigilante to avoid a fight. Because of this we were able to continue on with our mission to find the sky key with no combat having occurred. This very aspect was amazing as it allowed me to play stern and gruff as the vigilante and more calm and relaxed when I was playing the handler.
Eventually we made it to the dungeon/abandoned fort where the first combat occurred. I attempted Thunderstomp X1 and was unsuccessful but was able to hit 1 out of 2 times in the following rounds with my bow. After the three rounds the group was successful in bringing down the beast trying to stop us from entering and wanted to take the daughter of Vliyora from us.
The rest of the dungeon went pretty smooth until the last encounter. Once again I attempted Thunderstomp X1 and was not successful. Once again I was 1 out of 2 times able to tag the dwarf with arrows. Sadly we almost lost the daughter due to his special attack that allowed him to run past the party and basically strangle the life out of her. Infernal healing, as well as other party healing, was used to get her off the ground and keep her alive.
Finally we were met outside by guards sent by Vliayara and to punish/kill those that took her daughter with them. Insert diplomancing our way out of the fight with the guards.
We returned back empty handed but with a new direction to the sky key that we were sent to seek out and obtain. (AKA leading into the next part of the story and adventure)
Finally I had a chance before leaving to speak with Vliayara and talk to her about the Sovereign Court. We spoke for a bit where I was able to use diplomacy to recruit her to cooperate with the faction. (Great success. Marked that off on the faction card.)
All in all I found this mod to go very well because I was built to handle diplomacy but can see how the pain and problems can be much harder if the group did not have a face for the group or have built to diplomacy as I did.
Closing thought:
My friend and I have been talking about this class since the play test started. I see the potential in it to allow great amounts of RP using the two faces but know that in some PFS play (as well with home brews and APs) that you might not be able to enjoy that luxury thus taking away one solid aspect of the character.
As for the warlock from what I can see it definitely needs a bit of tuning. From what I can see most of the testers, as well as myself, are not going into the casting aspect because of the tax involved to gain full vigilante casting (which is a weaker form of other classes that are slow progression healers). If someone is going to take that level of tax to go full warlock casting they feel like, why not just play caster X where I can be a better caster?
I am a firm believer that if you are going to point out an issue that you should provide some kind of idea or solution to fix the problem. If the Arcane training was brought from 6 talents to 3 each giving 2 spell levels (1-2 3-4 5-6) this would lower the tax significantly and at least make it a more attractive option.
I also like that you have created an armored casting talent but also see this as a tax that needs to be altered and fine tuned. My suggestion would be to add to Arcane Training 1 the ability to cast in light armor without spell casting issues (to bring in line with other similar caster) but change the arcane armor casting talent to then be to be able to cast without issues in medium armor. This again will lower the tax that a pure caster would feel and possibly make up not being as strong of a caster as other similar casters. This will also allow those that want to be more defensive have to shell out a talent while those who don’t, or want to risk failure, can gain more versatility.
I think the spells per day should be removed from the arcane casting talent and just made static for all versions of warlock while only pure casters would get the higher level of spells. In all I think the above 3 changes should occur to both the Warlock and the Zealot (Minus the armor casting as divine casters do not have the problems casting that arcane ones do) As both Zealot and Warlock share the same issues with casting being very unattractive and very taxing.
Finally I think a suggestion I would give to the class would be to allow cross specialization. Much like Keneticist has the ability to access other elements or further specialize in their chosen element I think this could be an interesting aspect to be added to the class. The second specialization with a delay to skills much like built in keneticist that way the end talents can only be accessed by those of the primary specialization.
The biggest complaint I have read has been that the class fails to fill a niche aspect that other classes can do better. If the above suggestion is added the niche would be to be able to build your character to your characters story of how your character gets the job done. I understand this could lead to possible abuse but as long as the secondary aspect/specialization has a level delay to abilities much like keneticist has this might delay abuse while leading to more creativity available the player.
That is it for now for me. I have three more play test I want to post but I will delay until the forums goes back up. I am looking forward to more testing when I get home from GenCon. Feel free to ask any questions or comments and I will respond as quickly as I can.
My build
Str 8
Dex 16
Con 18
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 7
Level 2 Kineticist
Race Human
Skills (Rank) - Knowledge (Eng) 2 Perception 2 Sleight of Hand 2 Stealth 2 UMD 2
Traits Armor Expert/Pragmatic Activator
Feats - Point Blank Shot / Precise Shot
Wild Talents - Extended Range / Light Touch
Blast -
Telekinetic Blast - Attack +4/+5 if in 30 (+1 from BAB +3 from Dex)
--------------------- Damage 1d6+5/1d6+6 if in 30 (1d6+1+Con)
Armor - Leather Lammar / AC 17 / 4 from armor 3 from dex
Saving Throws 7/6/1
HP total 23 (During game 21 due to 1pt burn for Force Ward gaining 3 temp HP)
The Party
Level 2 Kitsune Sorcer Enchantment focus
Level 2 Bard focus performance Short Bow
Level 1 Shaman Melee/Tank focus 2 Hand Great Sword
Tier 1-2
Encounter information:
Total # of encounter - 5
Encounter 1
Lasted 3 rounds
Consisted of 3 Dogs
- Round 1 Double move to get line of sight no attack
- Round 2 Missed - Rolled 8 - 12 total to hit
- - During round attacked by dog. Took 5 Damage (3 Absorbed by force ward 2 went through)
- Round 3 Hit - Rolled 11 - 16 total to hit / Rolled 6 did total 12 damage (Max damage)
Trap triggered
- Took 8 points of damage (3 absorbed by force ward 5 went through)
- UMD used - CLW Wand - 7 (Rolled 6 on 1d8+1)
- Full HP restored minus burn
Encounter 2
Lasted 3 rounds
Consisted of 1 Zombie Ogre
- Round 1 Dropped Bard in one hit (in negatives) then moved into my face
- - Withdrew took AoO due to character reach Took 15 points of damage (3 Absorbed by shield 12 went through)
- - HP left 9
- - Sorcer Magic Missile for 4
- - Shaman Total Defense
- Round 2 Move action to pull wand of CLW Standard to blast
- - Hit with 15 (rolled 14 +5 -4 from soft cover) Told AC was 10 due to squeeze and size
- - Damage Rolled 2 did 8 damage (2 on 1d8+1+4+1)
- - Sorcer Magic Missile for 5
- - Shaman Total Defense
- Round 3 Missed with 9 (8 +5 -4 from soft cover)
- - Monster dropped by team at this point
Healed X 1 by Shaman for 7 X1 from CLW wand 5
- Returned to full HP (Minus burn)
Traps avoided on rest of floor
Encounter 3
On Rope bridge with two bat swarms
Avoided fight by running across bridge opening door rushing and closing door
- No damage taken by party
Encounter 4
Lasted 2 rounds
Consisted of Three weak cultists
- Round 1 - Missed with 15 - (Roll of 10+4+1)
- - One cultist Charmed by Sorcerer
- - Another cultist dropped by Bard and effect from Fortune Spurn template from cultist)
- Round 2 - Did not act prior to dropping of second cultist was dropped by combo of Sorcer daze/shaman/bard/fortune spurn
- - Third cultist questioned as to what was going on and sent on his way.
Encounter 5
Lasted 4 rounds
Consisted of Wight (Fortune spurn template added)
- Round 1 Hit with 25 (Rolled 19+4+1+1(Bard courage) did 8 damage (Rolled 2 on 1d6+4+1+1)
- - Used move action to get in room
- - Bard also moved in room and started Bardic Music Courage before attack (Maintained throughout battle)
- - Shaman was dropped beginning of round by surprise attack
- Round 2 Hit with 25 (Rolled 19+4+1+1(Bard courage) did 8 damage (Rolled 2 on 1d6+4+1+1)
- - Wight moved and attack bard and missed with 18 (Bard AC 18)
- - Bard took 8 points of damage and 1 point of Con drain
- - Sorcer Magic Missile
- Round 3 Missed with 14 (Rolled 8+4+1+1)
- - Wight moved to me and attacked missed with 15 (AC 17)
- - Bard fired with bow
- - Sorcer Magic Missile
- Round 4 Took 5 foot step and attacked
- - Hit with 21 (Rolled 15+4+1+1) did 10 damage (Rolled 4 on 1d6+4+1+1)
- - Wight dropped at this point
No other encounters to report at this time.
Did not have to take burn as I was able to keep within 30 of target other then the 1 from force ward.
Things noticed
- 1. Was able to do things with light touch like open door that added the flare of opening doors from afar (Mage can do this also so not super special but most mages ive seem dont take mage hand)
- 2. Aether in general has a lack of blast form/substance to alter the blast other then range makes it feel bland.
- 3. Aether to a degree is a dead end (Composits with no other element but itself and only one blast available)
- 4. Burn aspect needs some tweaking as I can see at higher levels with the other element mastery (Due to composite and/or form/substance changes and/or Blast enhancement) this severely limits usage. It is weird that a level 1 with no magic items can burn as many times as a level 12 with much more to pay for from the same effect at level 12 that a level 1 would have to pay. (Extend range, for instance, at level 1 is 1 burn aka 1HP while at level 12 it would be 1 burn aka 12HP.) It Feels weird that it cost more for a level 12 to use a level 1 ability as a level 1 when the character by level 12 should be better trained to manage it. (I know there is the specialization in form/substance but these have no effect on wild talents that are non blast related which is weird.) My suggestion would be to turn it to a Barbarian type thing with the points lasting 10 min per burn to stop total resets of group(Kinetic Healing)as well as over using of abilities with little long range issue. "You take 8 points of burn to do blue flame four times. If you want to wait round for the 1hr 20min to reset back to normal bad things can and will happen." Even make it that rest consist of doing nothing but relaxing thus you can't just burn into the ground and then have the party crawl until reset and then go fast.
- 5. Was doing about as much damage as the bard with his short bow and less then the Shaman with the two handed great sword (Sounds about right but will be an issue with monsters with extreme hardness or DR and no means to bypass)
- 6. Hitting felt about right thankfully I only had one encounter to deal with soft cover but that was thanks to party working with me and positioning.
- 7. Force ward - I think the flavor was nice. Although I was able to utilize it a lot because this was a true dungeon crawl (Lots of perception checks for traps etc) it was able to be reset for each encounter. I can see how in rapid combat though this might be an issue as it will not have a chance to regen. Maybe adding a secondary effect to take 1 burn to full regen the shield usable only once a round might be a good addition for this.
- 8. Aether loses out on Kinetic Form (Huge boon for the other 4 Elements) and has no level 10 Wild talents to equal what the other elements get. Again the feeling of a dead end with Aether and or late level wild talents. Even the level 16 talents Aether has 1 while the others have 3 or more. Something should be added to Aether to bring in line with the other elements.
I am going to be playing again on Monday will have a report for the game then.
