Gib Fizzlebonk's page

Ok, here is the revised and updated plan for this character.

Race: Gnome
Str: 14 (16, -2 Racial)
Dex: 14
Con: 12 (10, +2 Racial)
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 16 (14, +2 Racial)

Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack, Quain Martial Artist, Reactionary
Gnome Alternate Racial Traits: Academician, Dark Vision, Fell Magic, Gift of Tongues

1. Unchained Monk 1 (Scaled Fist Archetype)
Draconic Might (Use Cha mod instead of Wis for monk abilities)
Flurry of Blows, Improved Unarmed Strike 1d4, Stunning Fist
Feat: Extra Traits
Monk Bonus Feat: Dragon Style

2. Bard 1 (Archaeologist Archetype)
Bardic Knowledge, Archaeologist's Luck +1, Cantrips/Spells

3. Unchained Monk 2
Evasion
Feat: Power Attack
Monk Bonus Feat: Dodge

4. Unchained Monk 3
Fast movement, Ki Pool (½ monk level + Cha mod), Ki Strike (magic)
+1 Str

5. Unchained Monk 4
Improved Unarmed Strike 1d6
Draconic Mettle (+2 bonus on saving throws -vs- all fear, paralysis, and sleep effects.)
Ki Power - Draconic Fury (same as elemental fury),
Feat: Dragon Ferocity

6. Unchained Monk 5
Purity of body (Immune to diseases)
Style Strike – Flying Kick (1/round)

7. Dragon Disciple 1 (Forest Dragon Bloodline)
Bloodline Power: Claws 1d3
Blood of Dragons, Natural Armor (+1)
Bloodline Feat: Toughness
Feat: Iron Will

8. Dragon Disciple 2
Dragon Bite 1d4
Ability boost (Str +2),
+1 Str

9. Dragon Disciple 3
Bloodline Power: Dragon Resistances (DR 2 -vs- Piercing, Natural Armor +1)
Breath Weapon (1d6 piercing/DD level, 30' cone 1/day, DC 10 + ½ DD level + Cha mod)
Feat: Extra Ki

10. Dragon Disciple 4
Ability boost (Str +2), Natural Armor (+1)

11. Dragon Disciple 5
Blindsense 30 ft.,
Bloodline Feat: Improved Initiative
Feat: Weapon Focus – Unarmed Strike

12. Dragon Disciple 6
Bloodline Power: Claws 1d4
Ability boost (Con +2)
+1 Str

Items:

Amulet of Mighty Fists +3, 18k
Belt of Giant Strength +6, 36k
Ring of Protection +3, 18k
Cloak of Resistance +3, 9k
Boots of Speed, 6k
Deliquescent Gloves, 8k
Headband of Alluring Charisma +4, 8k
Pale Blue Rhomboid (Ioun Stone), 8k

Total = 111k of ~113k estimated for level 12 PFS character

I should be able to get a pretty respectable UMD score pretty quickly (+3 class, +3 cha, + ranks) I'l'l probably just stick with bard and carry a wand, using UMD on it when I don't have access to another player who can use it.

It is for PFS play, so I'll keep a wand of mage armor around...but having someone who can either cast it or use the wand is not a 100% guarantee. I'll train a couple ranks in UMD, but I won't have the skill points necessary to keep it maxed (especially once I hit the 2 ranks per level DD levels).

I'll play around with some feats and such, see if I can squeeze it in :)

So if I chose imperial forest dragon (piercing breath weapon) I would gain DR 2.5 (I am guessing that would round down to 2) -vs- piercing (bypassed by slash/bludg)?

I was curious about the Draconic Resistance gained at level 3 when using some of the expanded dragon types which do not have energy based breath weapons.

Dragon Resistances (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain resist 5 against your energy type and a +1 natural armor bonus. At 9th level, your energy resistance increases to 10 and natural armor bonus increases to +2. At 15th level, your natural armor bonus increases to +4.

If I chose a dragon type which had piercing or bludgeoning as its breath weapon, would that then grant be DR 5 vs that type of attack?

Yea, that low Str is what drew me to the DD, which lets me jump up to a 21 Str before items, 27 with a +6 belt.

At 10min/level, do you think the +2 caster levels would be big enough to offset the extra +1 luck from Fates Favored or the +1 unarmed damage from Quain Martial Artist? It doesn't feel like an extra 20 minutes would be enough to carry the buff all the way through in a lot of adventures, if I dropped fates favored would I be better off going with sorcerer for access to mage armor, enlarge person, etc?

Doing a bit of re-thinking now. Both ways (Pure monk -vs- DD) seem pretty solid. I was originally afraid that starting with a handicapped Str race would be too large a hurdle for pure monk, which is what drew me to the DD option. Looking at some of the numbers now, it does not appear to be as large a handicap as I thought...but the added utility from spells, higher HP and higher saves for a slightly lower offense is still pretty tempting...plus the flavor or a 3 foot tall dragon monk really appeals to me :)

Right, but when you look at the numbers, the strength is a wash compared to scaling damage dice for damage and BAB for accuracy, the natural armor edge isn't much vs the monk's scaling AC bonus. Toughness is probably a wash with any given monk bonus feat, and the D12 only really matters if your DM let's you max HP.

You lose out on all sorts of monk class features in the meantime. I'm not saying it's an awful trade off, but the mechanics definitely don't look as cool as the fluff at first glance.

Lets have a closer look at a pure Monk build -vs- the Monk/Bard/DD version.

Overall, I think the DD version comes out a similar in power level, but more well rounded.

Offensively, base unarmed damage is similar (pure monk = d10 (average 5.5) -vs- DD = d6 (average 3.5) with +2 from the enhanced Str), both have the same average of 5.5, the pure monk has a higher max damage, the DD has a higher min damage. The DD can easily be augmented with archeo. luck, and spells, and would already have all his monk damage boosts by level 5 (Dragon style, Dragon Ferocity, Elemental Fury, Flying Kick). Losing 3 BAB costs the DD an iterative attack (Monk 12/7/2 -vs- DD 9/4), I don't know all the math to calculate the DPR...losing that last attack probably won't hurt too much, due to its low number giving it a low % to hit. (If someone wants to run the numbers, I would love to see what you come up with)

Defensively the DD seems to comes out ahead, higher AC (by 1 point), higher HP (89 base + higher con -vs- 76 base with lower con), more rounded saves (plain monk = 8, 8, 4 -vs- DD = 7, 8, 6) and blindsense.

Utility wise, the DD gains bardic knowledge, the bards/DDs skill list (though loses a some ranks total Pure monk = 48, DD = 38), 6 cantrips, 4 level 1 and 3 level 2 spells, while losing a couple ki powers, 1 style strike, improved evasion, and ki strike (cold iron/silver/lawful). I should have an amulet of mighty fists by level 12, negating the need for ki strike. The bard spells should replace any utility lost from the missing ki powers, while freeing up more ki points for offense. Flying kick is far and away the best style strike, which I will have, so losing a second strike is not a huge loss. Improved evasion is the only real loss, hopefully the much higher health pool is enough to counter it.

With only the equivalent of 5 bard levels, I will not have access to level 3 spells, so Blink, Displacement, Good Hope, and Haste are sadly off the table. I will end up with 6 cantrips, 4 level 1 spells and 3 level 2 spells.

I was thinking:

Level-0: Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation (Ghost Sound and Resistance added with levels)

Level-1: Cure Light Wounds, Comprehend Languages (Dancing Darkness and Feather Fall with levels)

Level-2: Cure Moderate Wounds, Heroism, Invisibility

Has there been a change that I am unaware of? As far as I understand unchained monk could not take any of the standard monk archtypes..

Scaled fist from the Legacy of Dragons book specifically has rules for use with unchained monk. I opted for this archetype mainly for the charisma replacing wisdom, which works out better for the gnome since they get a bonus in it.

I had considered going sorcerer instead of bard, but the archaeologist bard combined with the fates favored trait means a +2 luck bonus as a swift action to attack, damage, saves, and skills. Which is a rather nice buff to help out with the lost damage from taking a race with a Str penalty. I lose out on a couple spells, but I think the trade off for archaeologists luck is worth it.

I mainly decided to go Dragon Disciple for the stat boosts, armor boosts, and hit dice. 4 levels gets me +4 Str, +2 AC, 28 HP, equivalent of +3 bard levels for spells. Claws and Resistance (DR/AC) from the draconic bloodline.

I do have 1 question about the resistance from the draconic bloodline...if I go with Imperial - Forest Dragon for my type, does that mean I get DR/5 -vs- piercing since that is what their breath weapon is?

Why switch back to monk for the last couple of levels? You should be able to get a +3 amulet of mighty fists by then so the ki strike doesn't really matter, with no other feats supporting it grappling isn't the best idea at level 11+, and a couple more levels of DD gets you +2 con and blindsense. If you're in it just for the BAB/bonus feats fighter or ranger might be better.

I had not thought about just taking the last 2 levels as DD instead of monk...if I did that I would get blindsense, another bloodline feat, +2 con, more HP, and +1 more caster level...that does sound better than the ki power, ki strike, and monk feat.

Has anyone actually compared the numbers for the scaled fist single class vs the various other options out there? Doing a dragon disciple with it is really appealing but I can't figure out if it does much for you, since you can't use natural weapons with flurry.

The natural weapons are pretty wasted for this build, but I think the other benefits make it worthwhile. Plus it fits thematically with a scaled fist/dragon style monk as the base class.

One last thing...any recommendations for which bard spells to take? I had forgotten than enlarge person and mage armor are not on the bard spell list...silly me.

I am working up a character for PFS play and thought I would toss it up here to see if anyone had any suggestions for optimizing it before I start playing it.

Other than 'Don't use a Gnome, you idiot!' :)

All PFS rules apply (20pt buy, only PFS legal materials)

Race: Gnome
Str: 14 (16, -2 Racial)
Dex: 14
Con: 12 (10, +2 Racial)
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 16 (14, +2 Racial)

Traits: Fate's Favored, Quain Martial Artist

1. Unchained Monk 1 (Scaled Fist Archetype)
Flurry of Blows, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
Feat: Power Attack
Monk Bonus Feat: Dragon Style

2. Bard 1 (Archaeologist Archetype)
Bardic Knowledge, Archaeologist's Luck +1, Cantrips/Spells

3. Unchained Monk 2
Evasion
Feat: Weapon Focus – Unarmed Strike
Monk Bonus Feat: Dodge

4. Unchained Monk 3
Fast movement, Ki Pool (½ monk level + Cha mod), Ki Strike (magic)
+1 Str

5. Unchained Monk 4
Draconic Mettle
Ki Power - Draconic Fury (same as elemental fury),
Feat: Dragon Ferocity

6. Unchained Monk 5
Purity of body, Style Strike – Flying Kick (1/round)

7. Dragon Disciple 1
Blood of dragons, Natural Armor (+1)
Bloodline Feat: Toughness
Feat: Improved Trip

8. Dragon Disciple 2
Ability boost (Str +2), Dragon Bite 1d4
+1 Str

9. Dragon Disciple 3
Breath Weapon (1d6 per DD level)
Feat: Extra Ki

10. Dragon Disciple 4
Ability boost (Str +2), Natural Armor (+1)

11. Unchained Monk 6
Ki Power - Qinggong Power - Barkskin
Monk Bonus Feat: Improved Grapple
Feat: Iron Will

12. Unchained Monk 7
Ki Strike (cold iron/silver)
+1 Str