Erik Mona confirmed he handed the script for this adventure in this week!
It is now with development to edit, review, coordinate art, illustrations and the cover, and it will soon be put on the schedule!
I am so happy!
And in fact this is what I've been developing for the past week or two. Was wary about mentioning this to manage expectations is all.
It's been on the schedule in one way or another since the start, years ago. We don't share our internal schedules, though, but things are for sure moving on this one. Hopefully we'll have more info to share on it soon, so stay tuned!
Would you (and everyone else here!) find a Lost Omen book that has more encounter maps, short adventures, and the like useful? I don't know if a book that is just adventures is the best fit for this line, but there might be a way to give it the Lost Omen spin, as it were, and make it a book that features content for players and GMs of all kinds, not just 128 pages of adventure.
I wouldn't personally like this, no. Pathfinder has hundreds of enemies and hazards I can use to build my own encounters, but the Lost Omens line is where I go for my direct injection of delicious setting lore.
I'd agree with keftiu. I enjoy the the campaign line books for lore and monsters (especially monsters). I'm not that big into little mini-adventures being plugged in, because between the APs and other materials that seems well-covered. If anything, I wish the Dark Archive book didn't have the adventures and replaced that with more specific lore and thematic monsters.
I agree with Keftiu AND MMCJAWA as well. I purchase lost omens books precisely for the lore.
One thing too, different people enjoy different lethality. So my group love danger, and have no issue with a strong risk of TPK. If there is no good risk of a TPK and they do not feel they really needed planning and luck to get through they feel bored. By the way they are not power gamers and spend a lot of time role playing.
But we have been playing AD&D 1st ed since 1981, and grew up on Gygaxian dungeons. And played 2nd ed, Then Earthdawn from FASA, + Shadowrun, then 3.0 and 3.5 then 4th Edition DnD and Pathfinder 1E, and now Pathfinder 2E as our game of choice.
So maybe thats why we love lethal encounters, ones they need plan for and scout. So I modify the Adventure Paths in places and make the encounters more lethal but with adding some extra stuff so that if the party scouts they can avoid the encounter. But a few encounters I make easier, all to keep them off balance.
So I play Pathfinder 2E and adventure paths but with a strong OSR vibe and balance.
I find its extremely easy to customize the adventure paths, and even to modify parts of the stories to better suit my tastes and my players tastes (we prefer more dark stories with grey morality).
This often I do by impromptu role playing. And seeing what my players do so I have to adjust the story.
In any case, I find the adventure paths very useful and love reading them even if I modify them a lot. Though some parts I don't change at all.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with the adventures and that I need "fix" it. But I feel it likely the adventure writers themselves mean often for one to adapt and mutate the adventure for ones own groups taste.
And the best part about this approach, for me, is that so far I really enjoy and love the adventure paths from Paizo. So does my group of players.
So I am a big fan.
In any case thats my approach to make the adventures right for my group. I cannot see how anyone can create an adventure perfectly suited and balanced to every group. So I assume the Paizo designers make it "more or less middle of the road." and write their adventures in a way that makes them easy to adapt and change.
At to make it clear, this is totally my subjective opinion and not objective fact.
Many hate TPK. Nothing wrong with that. My group love high risk and occasional TPK, nothing wrong or right with that.
Some of the first APs for 2e were too difficult at times (Age of Ashes, Agents of Edgewatch), but from Abomination Vaults onwards the balance is spot on. Since APs are indeed designed for 4 players, try using the encounter building rules to balance them for more players (because encounter budget increases with each additional player).
I hear you but in my 9 months experience playing in APs (AV and BL) with 5-6 players, nothing the GMs are doing makes a difference, the party curb stomps encounters. I'm seeing this on message boards as well.
Adding more monsters, making them Elite etc it's just not working. It goes back to Action Economy, the same issue that plagues that other game system. Either groups need to limit to 4 players or Paizo needs to make APs for 5-6 players since when GMs try to do it, it's not working.
I'm about to run Gatewalkers for 4 players. Let's see what happens.
No matter how an encounter is balanced it will be off balance for a particular group. But I think it is easy to change the balance.
On a personal note my group curb stomped the standard encounters in Age of Ashes and they were only 4 players. Yet other people complained the adventure path was too hard and a TPK.
Yeah, I did consider adding "IMO" afrer the fact, but the person below had already quoted me and I didn't want to alter my post again.
I completely agree with what you just said, re: subjectivity. My review is written from my personal headspace, with the added caveat that I am reading it as a non-Pathfinder player who is looking for material/storylines to convert to another game system. I completely gloss over the stat blocks and specific rules for traps/hazardous environments, as I will be rebuilding those myself.
For these reasons, I found The Seventh Arch to be lacking, but other people will have their own reasons to like or dislike the module, whereas NVM seems to have taken umbrage with my apparent powers of time travel more than anything else.
That is a fair view. For me, if someone gives a negative review and explains what they based their opinion on, how it met their particular tastes that helps me, and I suppose others, in considering if the review, positive or negative applies to my tastes.
All reviews are subjective. Thats why I like a lot of the Gaming Gang reviews. He gives reasons but is very clear its subjective. And that you may well disagree and like something he does not.
While I might be making what seems like an obvious point, unfortunately many people, and reviewers state their subjective opinion as if its an objective fact.
So there is nothing wrong with someone stating.
" I found it to follow in the recent trend of being, well, bad."
They have not clearly sated its their opinion and sort of done so while leaving the last part stated as a fact.
Now subjectively I strongly disagree with that opinion "well, bad", and I think it would have been clearer to have written "I found it to follow <in the recent trend> MY RECENT TREND of me finding it bad for me, <well, bad>."
As a South African having PaizoCon online makes it accessible, barring that everything occurs at time slots 10 hours different to where I live.
It also makes it feel like its a world event for all Paizo fans and not just for people who live in the US. I can imagine due to the size of the US there is difficulties attending physically even for many there.
Will there be any changes/revisions to the AP? (Like in the Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne compilations?)
In order to set expectations, no, this will be a near reprint with very few changes. This is a product that will appeal to players who are looking to play the AP for the first time, not an expansion for those looking to replay this formative Starfinder Adventure Path.
Likewise, there will not be a PDF update of the existing individual volume PDFs.
Not every AP will get a complication. This is like a victory lap for APs and decided on a case by case basis. Subscribers to the AP line still have the best value: high quality without the wait.
sounds like very skippable book then, unless it gets roll20 release or something
Sure. The hardcover compilations like Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne and Kingmaker are more about updating a popular AP for the newest edition of the game. This is more about keeping an AP in stock. Also great for local game stores, libraries, and bringing new players into the Pact Worlds. More "New Player Acquisition" than "Expansion for Fans." Definitely a good one for VTTs to add. Adventures Ahead!
Hi Aaron, I know that Kingmaker is coming out as 2E sometime soon, but I did not know there was any release for 2E for Rise of the Runelords or Curse of the Crimson Throne. Am I reading this wrong? I thought there were compilations but that they were Pathfinder 1st Edition compilations.
I am looking forward to this adventure, I have only been playing Pathfinder since 2019 with the release of PF 2E and really love the game and enjoy the Paizo Pathfinder and Starfinder books I own. I see there is many old adventures that people on these forums mention as having been a lot of fun to play (adventure paths from Paizo for D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder 1 E Pathfinder) and it is great to have an opportunity to see some of this stuff reprinted AND updated into 2E (I do not have 1E).
There was SERIOUS purging of content and quotes. We WANT you all to be excited about products. But please keep your discussions civil and on topic. If this thread veers off topic again, it will just get permanently locked.
I really, REALLY hope that the section that covers games and sports (assuming Pastimes?) makes mention of an in-world parody of popular tabletop rpg games. If not, can we all agree that Golarion's most popular TTRPG is known as "Monsters & Magic"?
I need this for... reasons. Definitely unrelated to making a a Toy Poppet, who is a tabletop miniature come to life and sets out on an epic journey.
What about "Dorks and Dice" ?
Where centaurs, pixies and dhampir fleshwarps play as plain humans living plain lives in a plain world.
What about
"Accountants and Actuaries" Where Gamers in Golarion role play bottom tier workers attempting to navigate the corporate wastelands in order to survive downsizing, pools of deadly corp coolaid and narcissistic managers.
Those are all just lame rip-off, copycat, bootleg clones of the original game, "Mazes & Monsters".
I really, REALLY hope that the section that covers games and sports (assuming Pastimes?) makes mention of an in-world parody of popular tabletop rpg games. If not, can we all agree that Golarion's most popular TTRPG is known as "Monsters & Magic"?
I need this for... reasons. Definitely unrelated to making a a Toy Poppet, who is a tabletop miniature come to life and sets out on an epic journey.
What about "Dorks and Dice" ?
Where centaurs, pixies and dhampir fleshwarps play as plain humans living plain lives in a plain world.
What about
"Accountants and Actuaries" Where Gamers in Golarion role play bottom tier workers attempting to navigate the corporate wastelands in order to survive downsizing, pools of deadly corp coolaid and narcissistic managers.
I had hoped this would be a 6 part adventure path taking us up to level 20. In D&D 5E there is only one adventure published by WOTC that goes to L20. And with Starfinder only one. This is disappointing as there is only so many times I want to play level 1 to 12 repeatedly. I know Aaron Shanks said to me once on another forum that high level adventure is a perfect place for Starfinder Infinite, I agree partly, but that is not a good substitution for actual official Paizo made adventures. I think that 2 more three part adventure paths similar to Devestation Ark would be awesome and would love to see more people push for this on the forums as Paizo (unlike WOTC) pay attention to fans and subscribers. If enough people request and talk about it I am sure Paizo would do so.
Or maybe the demographic has shifted, and yesterday's well-off middle-aged gamers expected dark and grit to spice up their relatively serene existence, while today's struggling younger gamers who are looking at the world collapsing before their eyes are longing for a setting of wonder and colour, where xxxdgy drkns is only on the margins of the storytelling, not front and centre.
personal history:
I spent 3.5 years in the Angolan war in a special military unit operating behind enemy lines, and live in Cape Town South Africa with a very high murder rate, and have worked as a Body Guard all over the world. And still do. Also as a police reserve. In the rest of my time I teach Martial Arts professionally.
I LOVE gritty and WISH I had a serene existence, did not have PTSD or still have to work in this field. Nor that I have lost 1 brother murdered 4 years ago in a hijacking, 1 cousin murdered in a house invasion, lost my child to a hijacker, and have 3 months ago survived an armed assault by a man with a gun.
But still, as I see the future that looked VERY dark to me when I was at war (and guess what we played in barracks to relieve tedium and fear - D&D 1st edition -very dark and very gritty).
It is never good to assume or judge other peoples personalities or their lives based on their tasted in fiction, RPG styles or sexual preferences, self proclaimed gender (or desire to not have one proclaimed ).
People are very unique and some people with a bright and serene unchallenged existence may love dark and gritty, be 18 years old or 80 years old and whatever else. Someone with a difficult and oppressive environment of any age could love bright and happy, Disney style stuff.
There is not necessarily a correlation - but maybe the writer here has only experienced people that do meet such a correlation. it's a big world though and generalizations just fail.
Also, all people count, even minority groups in buyer demographics. No need to marginalize people that want a certain game style or try gate keep by saying what is best or acceptable, what is no longer best, or what is "outmoded" gaming styles. But I do not think this book does so as I explain next.
However, about the book, I think one reads into it to some degree what they want. I do not see it as a Disney city, but that's just me.
And in any case, there is a hell of a lot to use here, and expand on. And it is VERY easy to add grit, darkness, very easy, or remove some.
So the book presents a city that to me is very easy to customize and make my own, even to use in D&D 5E or 1E, (I play Pathfinder 2E and 5E D&D), or to even re skin or take sections out of.
As such this is quite a versatile reference book for a city campaign, beyond just Absalom.
I plan on using it as Absalom, but want to point out that its a versatile product and for some DM to think of using it for other cities in Golarion, a homebrew world, a reskin, a reflavour or another game system.
The NPC's I find useful, and if I don't like any I reflavour or ignore them. I like that they are not stated out. And I see each one as a possible character.
So as someone who got into Golarion with 2E I basically know nothing about Korvosa and what happened there before, will this adventure be suitable for such a group?
For the love of the gods can we please get adventures, especially these shorter APs that start at a higher level? So much low level material exists, how about giving people something else for a change?
Not yet, but we'll be working on getting it up there as well.
Is there any other classes for Pathfinder 2E by Legendary Games? And are they on Fantasy grounds? And same for Starfinder and (forgive me for asking her) for D&D 5E same question?
And how will I know when Legendary Shaman becomes available of Fantasy Grounds. That is where I GM Pathfinder 2 so until then I cannot use the class. I bought the PDF and would like to make the class available to my players.
"Meritocracy is what produces success. So could non white males have the skill and merit? Yes, but it appears none were as competitive or available for these positions except if you propose a conspiracy theory. Instead you would have 2 good people biased against and not advanced just to put someone else in because they meet your preferred sexual, racial or whatever else distribution. Facts is, you are biased against the meritocratic advance of a white male in this case."
... dood, they were picked because of nepotism, it doesn't get more biased than that.
I am not a dood or male. You are so bigoted. "they were picked because of nepotism"- Where is the proof???
No assumption "Trying to claim that no people of colour where competitive enough" in my writing, at all. I said maybe. And did I say people of color, what about transgender whites???? Bias shows in your interpretation of what i said.
Are you seriously trying to tell me (a transgender white woman) that I am biased against transgender white women?
edit: you also repeatedly said non-white males, and focused entirely on race in your post, which is why I addressed things in the context of race.
employing a non white male clearly could be a white woman, a black person,anyone except a white male.
"Are you seriously trying to tell me (a transgender white woman) that I am biased against transgender white women?" Nope, you are just biased against a white male.
Congratulations to Jim and Mike! I love the products your company puts out and I’m excited to see how your contributions make Paizo better and stronger.
On the diversity front - I’m going to take a wild guess and say there may not be a lot of diverse candidates with the experience necessary for these positions. This whole industry has lacked diversity for a long time. I know Paizo had a panel during Gencon talking about how they are trying to promote diversity within their workforce, which may be relevant to review.
So maybe a more fair question is: How was diversity considered during the selection process?
Why assume no people of color with management experience exist? Furthermore, since this is a known issue in the industry... why not take strides to buck that trend, and actually hire some?
Why not accept they could be the best people? Do not be so biased against them just because they are white males, or assume racism decided this. Do you think biasing against hiring white males and employing a non white male is no less racist or biased?
Meritocracy, not quota's and agendas will ensure Paizo stays in business and produces the games we love and spend money on.
Can't you open your mind that they just might be the best? How do you know? You come across as biased! I could not care if every person who is best belongs to any group, or all belong to one group if they are good.
Meritocracy is what produces success. So could non white males have the skill and merit? Yes, but it appears none were as competitive or available for these positions except if you propose a conspiracy theory. Instead you would have 2 good people biased against and not advanced just to put someone else in because they meet your preferred sexual, racial or whatever else distribution. Facts is, you are biased against the meritocratic advance of a white male in this case.
No one was permitted to compete for those positions,...
No assumption "Trying to claim that no people of colour where competitive enough" in my writing, at all. I said maybe. And did I say people of color, what about transgender whites???? Bias shows in your interpretation of what i said.
Congratulations to Jim and Mike! I love the products your company puts out and I’m excited to see how your contributions make Paizo better and stronger.
On the diversity front - I’m going to take a wild guess and say there may not be a lot of diverse candidates with the experience necessary for these positions. This whole industry has lacked diversity for a long time. I know Paizo had a panel during Gencon talking about how they are trying to promote diversity within their workforce, which may be relevant to review.
So maybe a more fair question is: How was diversity considered during the selection process?
Why assume no people of color with management experience exist? Furthermore, since this is a known issue in the industry... why not take strides to buck that trend, and actually hire some?
Why not accept they could be the best people? Do not be so biased against them just because they are white males, or assume racism decided this. Do you think biasing against hiring white males and employing a non white male is no less racist or biased?
Meritocracy, not quota's and agendas will ensure Paizo stays in business and produces the games we love and spend money on.
Can't you open your mind that they just might be the best? How do you know? You come across as biased! I could not care if every person who is best belongs to any group, or all belong to one group if they are good.
Meritocracy is what produces success. So could non white males have the skill and merit? Yes, but it appears none were as competitive or available for these positions except if you propose a conspiracy theory. Instead you would have 2 good people biased against and not advanced just to put someone else in because they meet your preferred sexual, racial or whatever else distribution. Facts is, you are biased against the meritocratic advance of a white male in this case.
Shiny enough lists of accolades on both, but it’s a little disheartening to see yet more white dudes. Here’s hoping they and the union can steer Paizo onto a better course than we’ve seen.
Im going to flag this. Jim is openly gay. Does that not count in your counter or do you only see his skin tone?
I share keftiu's concern. The interactions I have seen with Jim give me hope, but then I never saw instances of the complaints against management beforehand, so that's no sure thing.
You have concerns because they're white? Not that they may be inept or whatever bad at managing?
It's reverse racism and hypocrisy to be concerned about color and not people's ability. "So Woke they are sleeping".
Is there an updated image for the special cover to see what the spine and cover design will be like?
Good question. I’m on the case.
Will future Special Edition books, including G&G, have a spine style like that of Secrets of Magic?
I think I speak for a decent number of people when I say that we were disappointed when Secrets of Magic changed (And the image for that in the store still doesn't reflect what you actually receive), and that if every single book moving forward has a unique spine style it would defeat a lot of the purpose that I felt was intended for the special editions, namely the "unified and clean display".
I could cope somewhat if the "core set" had a spine style and the "expanded set" had the same spine style.
I concur with you on this one. I have all of those editions, and Secrets of Magic, despite looking fantastic, looks out of place.
I like that the non 6 core stand out and hope this trend continues.
Cancel culture is censorship, or an attempt at it. I support Eric, love his work and can't wait for this book and will put my money into supporting this product and Eric.
Cancel culture is censorship, or an attempt at it. I support Eric, love his work and can't wait for this book and will put my money into supporting this product and Eric.
There should be more concurrent and visible on the head of the product page <not a post that will be one of 260+ posts and get lost in visibility> information on the state of release and what the current status of this is. If a date advertised is not going to be met, notify and update ASAP.
I love the style of the new cover, and the spine. I really hope the post basic rules set books go this way.
I think it is a great discontinuation and makes sense. Because the basic first 6 books, all have a similar theme in the outlay. The books from here are in addition, special, not the basics.
So on my self, it will be easy to see and will stand out basic 6 rule books, and then the special extra advanced additional books.
I know this is purely subjective but that is my feeling on the style change.
Is the release date of this adventure delayed for non direct oreder from Paizo.
I buy them on Amazon, otherwise the delivery costs + postage and South African tax getting the books, from Paizo over triples the cost in dollar terms.
If getting it from Amazon the cost in dollars is close to the list price.
Normally Amazon is spot on with dates, but not always.
So strangely enough it puts the release date on
https://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-Abomination-Vaults/dp/1640 783075 as .
Pathfinder Adventure Path: Hands of the Devil (Abomination Vaults 2 of 3) (P2) (Pathfinder: Abomination Vaults) Paperback – June 8, 2021
Is this an error, I was expecting it to already be in stock.
Using Amazon in South Africa is understandable, but sorry, we don't control or have immediate knowledge regarding what decisions distributor or retailers make regarding our products. (We ship our products to distributors who ship to retailers.) In my experience Amazon is typically weeks behind us in non-pandemic times and the pandemic has disrupted international distribution. I'll ask the Sales team to look into it. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Is the release date of this adventure delayed for non direct oreder from Paizo.
I buy them on Amazon, otherwise the delivery costs + postage and South African tax getting the books, from Paizo over triples the cost in dollar terms.
If getting it from Amazon the cost in dollars is close to the list price.
Normally Amazon is spot on with dates, but not always.
So strangely enough it puts the release date on
https://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-Abomination-Vaults/dp/1640 783075 as .
Pathfinder Adventure Path: Hands of the Devil (Abomination Vaults 2 of 3) (P2) (Pathfinder: Abomination Vaults) Paperback – June 8, 2021
Is this an error, I was expecting it to already be in stock.
Just a heads up, this book has been delayed until end of year or even beginning of next year per Erik Mona.
Erik Mona wrote:
Both products are currently delayed. I messed up and didn't assign enough pages to the Absalom book to do it right, so I'm holding it back until it's as awesome as we can make it. James Jacobs and I have added about 20 additional locations to the manuscript (the city now has a temple for every core god, for example). We've also been working on an NPC appendix that has short summaries of more than 300 inhabitants of the city. So when you go to a shop, you can cross reference the shopkeeper in an NPC appendix and find out who she is friends with, who she is plotting against, and how all of it might play out into an adventure hook to lure the PCs into adventure.
We're hoping the book will be out by the end of the year. If not, it will be very shortly thereafter. The map folio will come out at the same time as the hardcover.
That is why I was wondering about the Amazon date as it correlates approximately to - We're hoping the book will be out by the end of the year. If not, it will be very shortly thereafter.
Pathfinder Absalom, City of Lost Omens (P2) Hardcover – March 30, 2021
by Alexandria Bustion (Author), John Compton (Author), Jeremy Corff (Author), Katina Davis (Author), & 8 more
But there is no indication anywhere on paizo.com of a release date.
I havn't even read Alien Archive 3 fully, nor did we play anything beyond the introductory adventure, "Dead Suns" & the first Skittermander adventure.
I did buy SF APs #1-#24 though and will continue to buy them until #33.
I have so many questions about this post and what it's doing here.
Ask away.
Basically i said that i don't need a Alien Archive 4, as 3 volumes (and the Alien Archives sections in the AP volumes) are more than enough for me.
We played Starfinder and liked it, we also played Pathfinder second Edition and didn't like it and we played Pathfinder 1e and still love it.
Unfortunately due to covid-19 it's impossible to meet in person for the next months and i do not need a 4th Alien Archive in my life.
Stay safe and stay home, everybody.
Strange how peoples paths to what they enjoy in a rpg differs so much. I liked 3.5 but it got too bloated with books, still though I loved it. Then I as not interested in Pathfinder as I thought it as just D&D 3.75. I went and tried D&D 4E, had a lot of fun but it got stale , and 4E FORGOTTEN REALMS was odd, and I did not like it.
In any case, played D&D 5E and really liked it a lot. Then came across Starfinder and was so impressed, that I got Pathfinder 2 which is my favorite game. I tried Pathfinder 1, but it never drew me in, but Pathfinder 2 has big time.
In any case, it could all have traveled down a different path for me.
Last thing,I am one of those people who loves trying different games and editions. I will jump to play any edition of most RPG games if I gel with the group and get to have a cool evening with a group of nice people, and get good memories and stories.
So presently my fave games are
Pathfinder 2
Starfinder
D&D 5E
They've said that the Kingmaker hardcover will be available at Paizo.com when it's done, but the price will be higher than that paid during the funding campaign.
Hi Joana, I do not have funds now or I would love to pledge now.
Does any one know when these books will release and be available through Paizo to order normally.
I am also curious about the Companion Guide.
Is it a book that mainly concentrates on stats + lore for 12 NPc's.
