Karzoug the Claimer

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I'm not seeing anything in Green scourge that suggests they can't still spontaneously cast Summon Natures Ally. The ability text itself doesn't say it removes the SNA ability and it's listed as altering spontaneous casting not replacing it so the original spontaneous stuff is still there, right?


Having recently reached mythic archmage myself I find the question in need of answering and I'm inclined to go with the "prepare as cleric" school of thought.
Why? Because wizards don't have 'spells known' merely the physical limitation of their spellbook. If you remove any reference to a spellbook from the Wizards class then that's what you get.
As has been pointed out above its not exactly game breaking anyway.


The truth of it is that I've been having doubts as to the possibility of this venture hence why I sought other opinions. Make no mistake I'll be giving it my all regardless... I'm just hoping to gauge the scope of it all,

Replies have been really helpful so far and now I'm off to sleep on this before I make any real choices about what to do.


"During your travel from ORIGIN to DESTINATION over the next TIME you see INTERESTING DESCRIPTION and along the way ENCOUNTER at LOCATION and ENCOUNTER at OTHER LOCATION. You learn INTERESTING TRIVIA and whilst the PREVIOUS ENCOUNTER was taxing none of you are worse for wear as you approach DESTINATION."

What I meant was to build in the random encounters to narrative description of journeys. This way they players know that the world is alive and full of danger but random encounter are very seldom lethal. They would however know that whenever I did make them work through a seemingly random encounter that it was infact... not.

It's like telling the players how they have to hack their way through zombies to reach a necromancers layer as opposed to making them fight it. I mean, they're zombies so after a certain level it's pretty much auto win. Maybe tax them a few charges of a cure wand.


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I... have no idea what just happened.


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I have used GMPCS on several ocassions and I will admit that I've found that they can really add to the experience. However I have made myself a few rules which govern how I play these npcs.

1) They are not the heroes of the story.
They are never recognized as such. They assistants, guides and support for the players.

2) Their role must not overlap with a player character.
If the group has an arcane caster then they don't need me throwing a second one in. This is the mechanical corollary to point 1.

3) They cannot be the face of the party.
In the unlikely event that they have social skills they do not use them, I am not here to play with myself.

4)They guide but do not steer.
With a gmpc I have a voice in the party whom the party trust. Through this I can make suggestions providing it is in character. The dmnpc will never object to whatever the party majority decides to do. EVER.

5)They consume no resources.
They will not take treasure rewards nor will they require purchase of consumables. If the party has stretched resources the gmpc shall be poor, if everyone is fully stocked on consumables so are they. A pc should never give nor receive significant amounts of gold from this character.

6)They have a place and a purpose and then they leave.
Normally a GMPC is deployed by me into groups of less than 4 in order to shore up the numbers. When the 4th seat is filled the GMPC becomes an NPC and steps back. The GMPC always has a story reason to exist and a clearly defined goal, once fulfilled they retire and a new gmpc will emerge if still required.

7)They are optional and at players request.
I always ask smaller groups if they'd like to have a gmpc in order to give the group access to a more rounded set of tools. This allows players to be what they want without fear that their lack of a divine caster will be their doom.

8)They act as the players require in combat.
Whilst I dont normally pass the sheet over to the players the gmpc will follow direction in combat. This lets the players, as a team, strategize and plan without fear that I will have the gmpc misbehave for no real reason.

An example: In a certain AP my party had released an evil outsider from imprisonment in exchange for information. This information was provided as the outsider wanted the adventurers to succeed in order to vanquish those who imprisoned it.
Shortly after the party got TPK'd. Now this wasn't their fault entirely as we'd recently lost the 4th seat and they'd decided to soldier on without them. They didn't want a gmpc as...well... they got a lot of the npcs around them killed.
So I decided that this outsider would arrange their ressurection so they could continue playing. The players were having fun and we wanted the game to progress, but they needed a frontline figher.
Enter the DMPC.
I supplied the party with a dmpc figher whose life was sworn to the outsider for mysterious and unexplained reasons. The fighter explained they were now bound to ensure the parties success and follow every reasonable order given to them.
My players immensely enjoyed this as now they had a moral quandry and their debt to this outsider hanging over their head. Meanwhile I got to create and experience mid-level fighter play and very slowly develop this unique slice of story alongside the players.

DMPC's are wonderful things. Just remember that the focus should ALWAYS be your players and their characters.


So, a few points on how I planned to approach this.
First of all xp and levelling is all handled on a milestone system wherein once the players reach the point where the AP says they should be X level they then become X level.
Second random encounters will be entirely cinematic, as will travel which should cut out abit of the fluff.

Now I've run AP's before. Infact i've run ROTRL to almost the very end. So I know that what i've put foward here looks almost impossible and that's really why i'm seeking advice.

As has been pointed out the biggest issue is actually that the GM has to do as much prep upfront and will be constantly reading ahead and looking up as the game progresses. This isn't a huge issue for me as I work well from pre-written material and have a bunch of tablets for a GM screen all with companion apps.

I appreciate people sharing their experience and timeframes and they all lineup with the research i've already done. I'm still going to give it a try though as this is a special event for a friend.

What I'm taking away from this is that I should focus on a more 'linear' AP and just trim the fat wherever I can.

Hmm, it's a poser for sure, but any further advice would be happily received.


My question is in the title.

Basically I have been asked by a friend to GM an adventure path for a special event and it has been suggested that we try taking one from the START to the FINISH. Not in one session obviously but we've got a little over a week to do this in. I can't remember the numbers but I was quoted something along the lines of assuming there'd be ~120hrs of play in that time.

Now, assuming my players are veteran gamers and have their characters planned 1-20 and dont get bogged down in rules or looking things up, which AP's are possible?

Because honestly, i've got my doubts at it being achievable. I do, however, want some other opinions on this.

The current shortlist as requested to me is, in order of preference:
Way of the Wicked (Not Paizo but still an AP.)
Wrath of the Righteous
Rise of the Runelords

I also need to think about how i'd go about prepping and running such an event... but the AP choice comes first and I feel it of critical importance.


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My group, a rather new to PF bunch but solid RPG fans, are about 1/2 through The Skinsaw Murders and about to head to Misgivings. We've got a Gnome Sorcerer, Shoanti Druid and Generic Human Fighter with the additional options to call NPC support when needed.

Here's the funny bit and it's about them piecing together the clues about who the Skinsaw Man is, I never saw their top suspect coming.

See the Gnome is a suspicious sort. He's really getting into the Thassilonian stuff and basically became Quink's apprentice shortly after meeting him. Having a mentor who leaps to conclusions and uses flimsy evidence has not been good for him. After the onset and hints at an undead foe he becomes convinced it's Chopper returned from the grave in some foul manner. I have it explained that Chopper's remains were incinerated, scattered and all his possessions destroyed as i'm hoping to not derail into what I know is a dead end.

Now at was at this point that I accidentally fanned the flames of suspicion. A lot of the local knowledge my players' characters have is from patrons at The Rusty Dragon. They happily tell tales of the terrible murdermaw who eats ships whole and goblins who'll raid towns just for their firewood as it's still burning. Wild exaggerations, ofcourse. Getting them to talk on the Late Unpleasantness is a somber thing but the tall tales still creep in. The popular version of Chopper's Demise is that Hemlock himself storms the house alone and duels the axe-wielding fiend as the house burns.

So, the thought process in my dear gnome player goes like this:
We're investigating an Undead Murderer. Serial Killer. Chopper? Can't be Chopper. Why not? He's dead, Hemlock Killed him. We've found 3 bodies now. The Mill, the con-men and the ghoul farm. Hemlock keeps sending us out looking but we're not making much...
...
...
Hemlock sent us to that farm, coincidence? Hemlock is a kind of poison. Chopper's last victim was the previous sheriff. Hemlock confronts Chopper alone. No real evidence other than a few terrified guards that...
HOLY CRAP WAS HEMLOCK CHOPPER?! ARE WE WORKING FOR A SERIAL KILLER?! WHAT DO WE DO!? BUT WE TRUST HIM! WE'RE DOOMED IF THIS IS TRUE!

The weird thing is, with the world as I have presented almost everything points to Hemlock being a serious contender. The only flaw is he's not undead and has no motive, though i'm sure if he was an evil undead mastermind he'd have solutions to that.

I swear next session is going to be interesting... I think I might need to rush them along to Misgivings, but they've mainly been taking order from Hemlock so far!