Order of the Torch - an offshoot of the Order of the Pyre that instead takes the purging flame into the field to burn away the untamed wilderness and seeks the destruction of the chaotic Fey that cloud the mind of civilized people and prevent the growth of civilization.
Key purpose: Destruction of the Fey and taming of wilderness.
New Discipline (Order of the Torch Only):
Purge Glamer - All Illusion (glamer) effects within a 30' radius of the Hellknight, except those created by the the Hellknight or his allies, are subject to a Dispel Magic effect that uses the Hellknight's character level as the caster level. Additionally, the ten foot area around the Hellknight will be subject to a Defoliate spell when this power is initiated.
Reckoning:
Members of the Order of the Torch typically carry torches and a mean to light them. As they focus on expelling unwanted thoughts from their minds, Hellknights of the Torch hold their hands and forearms within the flames of the torch.
Burn yourself over an open flame. Once per day as an immediate action, you can gain fire resistance 10 for 10 minutes. This does not stack with resist energy or any other abilities that provide fire resistance and overlaps with protection from energy.
Boons:
1) Fey Enmity: Channeling his hatred of the Fey, the Hellknight gains a +1 bonus on Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against creatures of the fey subtype. Likewise, the Hellknight gets a +1 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against fey creatures.
2: Immolation (Sp) You can channel your wrath into power that can scorch your foes. Once per day, you can cast delayed blast fireball using your character level as your caster level.
3: Sever from Wild Magic (Su) You can tear any fey creature from its attachments to the First World and access to wild magics. Once per day as a standard action, you can target any few within 100 feet. If your target fails a Will saving throw (DC = 10 + 1/2 your Hit Dice + your Charisma bonus), it loses access to any arcane spellcasting and all the supernatural and spell-like abilities possesses for a number of rounds equal to half your character level. When a creature under the effects of this ability tries to use an ability to which it no longer has access, instead of using its magical abilities, it feels only a profound, black emptiness, as if its deity no longer existed.
I'm not allowing the purchase of magic items with BP. Sorry, I understand the reasoning is but the characters are already doing just fine on the wealth track. That said, characters are free to use wealth to purchase such boots.
I'm enjoying the kingdom building as well, and am fine with the kingdom growing bigger than the guidelines in the game.
My "hand waving" proposal is this: You use exploration edicts to explore hexes. I will allow the explorers fully explore basic hexes (with nothing notable there) and identify interesting/dangerous hexes but NOT explore them. The PC's are then given maps of the hexes that seem to have interesting/dangerous within them and travel straight there without bothering with the non-essential hexes.
With that, you will still need to travel and may end up away from home during turns with Akiros and crew filling in. However, you don't need to range nearly as much and it should speed up the game a bit.
I'm open for creativity, and my idea was that we didn't have to force a turn per month not that we would do a turn ever two years. It was to not force you to return all the time. Also, your kingdom is already thriving and quite powerful... Nate has pointed out that it is of a respectable size and growing. Especially with the addition of Varnhold, we are not in a place where kingdom being too small is a concern.
The issue with a "scout team" is actually "exploring" a hex involves encountering any creatures in that hex. The "exploring" is a central part of the adventure path, completing quests, finding the next piece of the adventure puzzle, etc. We would end up having to role-play out encounters with NPC's the explorers find (like the Centaurs) and they would have to at least enter caves and such to determine what is in them (and potentially be killed by inhospitable ancient cyclopes liches).
I'm not against the idea, but if we're going to have a B Team of explorers and actually have to play out encounters, that doesn't really save us time.
Likewise, with the powerful magics you have now I'm not sure we can't solution this pretty well. Especially if Carrissa takes Teleport. Before, the explorers were more useful because they could come back and report terrain and you could intelligently select which hexes to explore. Today you could overland flight and teleport around to determine how accurate Narthropple's map is.
All that said, my goal is to make this fun and not burdensome. If we want to simply "hand-wave" exploration a little bit and hire professional adventurers for a BP cost to scout out and explore all the "empty" hexes over time... I'm not against that. Then the "A Team" could focus in on hexes that seem to be of interest. This could include things like the Linnorm Skeleton even though it doesn't have combat, and things like the Mammoths where combat is optional. We'll just assume they can "recognize the potential threats" of something like Vordekai's lair compared to a naturally occurring cave as part of the hand-waving. This may alleviate some of the non-enjoyment of kingdom building that some people have as well. Mechanically, this could involve Nate and I getting together in separate sessions and just filling in the map and forwarding results to the group for Troy to update the main map.
Mayor: Hayleigh Denalar
Smith: "Small" John Umberhold (Hint: he isn't small, but his dad even bigger.)
I think we are to the point where we may wish to simply de-couple kingdom building and time.
Kingdom building can happen as it makes sense in the story line rather than be tied to a calendar.
Think about building a castle or a cathedral... those are decade long endeavors. At the begining, growth is very fast and every turn is crucal... but it does make sense that as things hit a certain maturity growth will slow down.
Also, Carissa should be able to take teleport at 10th, no?
One of the reasons I would like to switch is to try and incorporate background audio into the game. Roll20 has a fair amount of fan-created background sounds that can add to the game. Also some sound effects for spells, battles and such that might be fun.
People can choose to broadcast video or not, but the audio is the key and if we do audio over the Roll20 we can have background sounds.
1) We have finished book Three of Six of the Adventure Path and defeated the dreaded Cyclops Lich Vordekai. Nate's points about the difficulty of the combat were well-founded and we are reaching the power level where such combats can be very "swingy" with one or two key roles making the difference. Right now the party is built on pouring on damage quicker than the monster can respond. That is a good strategy, but monsters are increasing in power and danger level to respond to that.
2) We are at a "break" in the story-line where there is time to develop the kingdom from a role-playing standpoint if we wish. The kingdom is of a suitable size so I don't think we need to do many kingdom building sessions, but it is a time where many years could potentially pass from an RP standpoint. For example, we can age the heir to maturity, re-evaluate the ruling council and functions, establish the Helknight Citadel and build out how they interact with law-enforcement, army, etc. What is Carissa's role in the expanding kingdom? The relationship with certain neighboring kingdoms/cities are part of the plot line for the next adventures, so I would prefer this focus internally. Also, this is optional... if people wish we can jump right ahead to the next adventure.
3) Roll20: Roll20 seems to have improved their audio and visual chat functionality. Is everyone using a device that has webcam and microphone? Would we like to activate these features rather than logging into both Google Hangouts and Roll20? I can walk people through the settings if so.
4) Regarding the probably too-lengthy discussion about Diplomacy, I wanted to clarify how I deal with these issues. Anastasia is better at diplomacy and expressing herself than any of us. That is why she says she gets her large bonus. Nate points that diplomacy at the target like a gun and pulls the trigger. What I need to pull the trigger is for a message to be expressed so that I can look at the creature hearing and determine the adjustments to the DC.
That said, there is both a broad difference and a fine line between intimidation and diplomacy. The way I look at it is if there are threats involved it is intimidate, otherwise it is likely diplomacy. Moving forward I will try to distinguish the base message given in simple form to determine diplomacy vs. intimidate. Any additional "color" given will shift the DC appropriately.
I'd say the response nicely encapsulates it. Regardless of whether a particular spell or spell-like ability has a specific V/S/M component to it, it is clear the person casts a spell. How exactly it is clear is up to the flavor the caster would like to have. For example, Carissa's may involve sharp visual effects whereas I've always imagined Anastasia's being much more subtle, more "felt" than anything else. Regardless, anyone observing either caster can tell they are casting a spell. Spellcraft allows you to know which specific spell is cast, but otherwise isn't relevant to the rest of the poster's question.
A more interesting question in this regard is Supernatural abilities. I would say these also have some sort of "sign" to them, but are obviously not interruptible. But I could see an argument saying Supernatural abilities don't produce such observable effects.
I believe that unless there is a description of an effect or activity associated with it, Supernatural abilities would not be overtly apparent. You cannot Spellcraft supernatural abilities to identify the effect and they have no analog otherwise. There has been some debate but this thread really outlined the arguments well.
That said many supernatural abilities are apparent, and if someone has to make a saving throw they will know something happened but may not be able to pinpoint the source. This could also support innocent people being suspected of witchcraft when bad thing happen. If there is no overt action, you can blame people merely by presence.
What exactly do I identify when I’m using Spellcraft to identify a spell? Is it the components, since spell-like abilities, for instance, don’t have any? If I can only identify components, would that mean that I can’t take an attack of opportunity against someone using a spell-like ability (or spell with no verbal, somatic, or material components) or ready an action to shoot an arrow to disrupt a spell-like ability? If there’s something else, how do I know what it is?
"Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball. You can see some examples to give you ideas of how to describe a spell’s manifestation in various pieces of art from Pathfinder products, but ultimately, the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details. Whatever the case, these manifestations are obviously magic of some kind, even to the uninitiated; this prevents spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation. Special abilities exist (and more are likely to appear in Ultimate Intrigue) that specifically facilitate a spellcaster using chicanery to misdirect people from those manifestations and allow them to go unnoticed, but they will always provide an onlooker some sort of chance to detect the ruse."
Thoughts on this? I'm envisioning Dr. Strange visuals and sounds as you focus your magical energies.
Posting of the notice outside the Last Stand goes without further incident. As you leave, the noise level inside the tavern slowly returns to normal but there are no jeers or raucous hollers. A few passersby stop to look at the notice. One person says, "Well, that don't make no sense. Tavern's natural course of business is havin' more 'n twelve people. Humph..."
Hearing this comment Slenk says, "Advocate Vade, is your reading of the writ that a business, such as the tavern, that would have more than a dozen people present within the normal course of business is exempt from this order? Similarly a theater would be exempt? I believe a pure reading of the language indicates such, but I am not an expert in the law..."
There are obvious weaknesses with the 5' cube functionality when we consider the Pathfinder game in the three dimensional space. However, think of it this way. An average adult human male is about 2.5' wide at the shoulders and 1' wide front to back. That requires a full 5'x5' of horizontal space to be able to move for combat. Basically this would allow them to position themselves in a square and spread their arms, swing weapons, dodge, etc. within their square.
It is very rare that the taller races don't extend more than 5' up. This does not even consider the movement of arms and weapons above them. Realistically, while fighting weapons are swung overhead, jumping may occurr, etc. I, myself. with a 3' sword swung overhead would reach well over 11'. Hana would be be over 8'.
African Lions stand 4' at the shoulder. Dox sitting would be about 3' higher than that with his head. Raising his hand would reach around 9-10' With a 3' sword would be around 12-13'. I know Dox doesn't fight, but you can't occupy the same 5' square as an ally whether you are armed or not. Cringer certaily rears up when he fights. I'm not slamming Dox into an 8' ceiling when he does that, though it would likely happen.
It isn't whether you can squeeze through the area, it is whether that area is needed to supply the full freedom of movement needed for combat.
It also breaks the rules to allow multiple creatures to gang up on a single creature by going vertical. With two flying PC's in a 10x10 corridor would be able to have four attack one instead of two attack one. Fly is powerful enough without that.
So here is my ruling:
You may not occupy the square directly above another medium or larger creature in combat. For purposes of spacing, Medium creatures are deemed to occupy their space and the 5' space above them, however they also only threaten the 5' space above them. This is not true for small creatures. For each size category above medium, this extends only 5' vertically above their size category (10'+5' for large, 15'+5' for huge.
A mounted person shares the space of their mount, so a medium rider on a large creature counts as a large creature. A small rider on a medium creature counts as a medium creature.
If a person is forced to stop in an area where they are occupying the square above a creature then they are not shunted but gain the squeezed condition and are considered to be in difficult terrain. They cannot choose to do this.
Of course, allies can freely pass through the squares occupied by their allies, they simply cannot choose to stop and occupy the square.
I am updating the travel and movement rulings to simplify things as updated on the Campaign tab:
OK, Movement is getting unnecessarily complicated. I'm going to propose some simple house rules that will trump what I said in the earlier post.
I propose we go with adjusted overland travel rules based on Miles per Day. Since we need to travel in 12 mile hexes We will adjust the table appropriately. A person walking travels 12 miles per day (+4 mile bonus over raw.
Adjustment: Vehicles/mounts under 20 Miles per day move 12 Miles per day or one hex; Vehicles/mounts between 20 and 30 miles per day move 24 miles per day or two hexes. Vehicles Mounts Between 30 miles per day and 40 miles per day move 36 miles per day or three hexes.
This movement is adjusted by terrain and roads as appropriate, however left over travel (fractions) are lost:
1) Floating: All rivers flow from north to south as determined by the origin and destination. The destination will be flowing into another river or larger body of water south of the origin. If the origin and destination are in the same horizontal hex line, then the river flows from west to east.
2) Canals do not allow for floating, they do not have flow like rivers, but require towing or pulling to move.
Based on this, to explore three hexes it would take:
Day 1: Travel into a hex (12 miles) stop.
Day 2: Explore first Hex.
Day 3: Travel into next hex (12 miles) stop.
Day 4: Explore second Hex.
Day 5: Travel into next hex (12 miles) stop.
Day 6: Explore third Hex.
I'm OK with that in general. Spells needed would be Discern Lies and See Invisibility so you have to account for those spells being cast as well.
Discern lies is 4th level, which means a caster level of 7, so one use per day would be adding 11,200 gp for a total of 17,350 gp. Crafting cost of 8,675 gp. That's almost three times the cost, and puts it out of my budget.
I followed these rules for pricing custom magic items:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-item-creation/
I was thinking Vissannica would want to ask Dox to enchant her bone mask of office, then thought, it would be cool to get all the masks enchanted.
The ones for the Inquisitors and High Inquisitors are really just flavor.
Inquisitor’s Mask
A bone mask that gives the bearer a +2 to sense motive – 400 gp (200 gp craft cost)
High Inquisitor’s Mask
A bone mask that gives the bearer a +5 to sense motive – 2500 gp (1250 gp craft cost)
For Vissanica, what do you think of the following item and price calc:
Minister of the Inquisition’s Mask
An ornate bone mask that gives the bearer a +5 to sense motive (*1.5 as has other powers) – 3750 gp
Ability to see invis per the spell once per day use-activated (spell level 2 * Caster lvl 3 * 2000 gp / (5 divided by 1 charge per day)) = 2400 gp
Total: 6150 gp, 3075 gp cost to craft
I'm OK with that in general. Spells needed would be Discern Lies and See Invisibility so you have to account for those spells being cast as well.
The next morning Sybyl returns with the requested information and several references that allow her and Anastasia to piece together information on House Jeggare and magical weapons.
For House Jeggare: House Jeggare is an ancient noble house found across the entire extent of Avistan, although centered in Cheliax.Extremely wealthy, it joined House Thrune and other allies in building the Qatada Nessudiddia in Westcrown between 4639 AR and 4677 AR.
The branch of House Jeggare in the Varisian city of Korvosa descends from a nephew of the famous philanthropist Montlarion Jeggare. It controls the second-largest share of dock space in Korvosa, allowing the family to generate an enormous income through its brisk trade. Nearly a quarter of the city's privately held assets are controlled by the family, making it not only a powerful and influential noble house but also the wealthiest. House Jeggare survives the sometimes cut-throat politics of Korvosa by keeping a line of credit open for the monarch and other noble families, and by acting as the chief financial backer of both the Korvosan Guard and the Sable Company.
For Intelligent Weapons: If a weapon is powerful enough it develops enough of a Ego that it can challenge the wielder for dominance. This is rarely permanent, but it can virtually control the wielder for bouts of time - especially if the wielder does something diametrically opposed to the weapon's will.
Regarding Nightmare and protection from evil, my read is that it would give you a +2 bonus against the spell.
I do not see anything in the spell description that stops spells with the evil descriptor from functioning. If anyone else sees this in the spell, please let me know.
The ring of sustenance will likely work fairly well as the caster would have difficulty knowing when you are sleeping, and only needing 2 hours would make this even harder.
That is fine with the eels. We will just advance the calendar.
As for the mounted combat, I am fine with that as long as we have a mutual understanding that mounts defer entirely to their rider when we are dealing with combat movement.
We will not be considering initiative or perception for mounts, they perceive and defer their actions to the rider. That means we will not be considering "Bounder would have sensed that there was quicksand there" or "Cringer wouldn't have let me move him there because he would have scented the zombies around the corner." When mounted, they simply obey instruction.
Wanted to throw this out there as an idea for the opening of the mint and the coin of the realm...
How about we make it a holiday. The 28th of Calistril is hereby known as The Day of Coin and is celebrated throughout the land. Here is the info on Holiday and there impacts (http://legacy.aonprd.com/ultimateCampaign/kingdomsAndWar/kingdomTurnSequen ce.html). I think we only have 1 holiday so far which is Coronation Day.
Hide Campsite: Let's call the 20' Cube as 20'x20'x20' and if so I agree that the Party can be inside without issue, including the two Animal Companions - however the remaining 3 horses would be outside.
Campfire Wall: Notably this is 20' radius which would be enough to include the party and animals.
I did have an issue with the light settings. They were halved for everyone. I've set up a system to (hopefully) prevent this as people use light sources in the future
To follow on with a discussion of the Boogey-man encounter, the players seemed quite frustrated with the encounter. I wanted to lift the curtain a bit into my view and intention.
1) Hide Campsite - First, my mistake in that I thought Campfire Wall was still the spell being used. I'm sure it was discussed that the change was made, but I am human with a rather poor memory at times and I did apologize. Notably, the Hide Campsite spell's much smaller area of effect does need to be considered as it will not contain all of the party's mounts.
We had been "hand-waving" (eliminating from consideration/meticulous enforcement of the rules) night time wandering encounters since the party began to use Campfire Wall. I think that was fine overall when the creatures you would have encountered would likely avoid the Camfire Wall or be put off by hide campsite.
However, this encounter illustrated that Hide Campsite and Campfire Wall do not make you immune to night encounters, and as you grow more powerful and gain access to additional abilities - so do some of your foes. Many foes, especially animal types, will be fully put-off. You may be veiled/protected by the campsite, but you are still susceptible to both mundane (tracking) and magical (scrying) detection. Intelligent/persistent foes can still find you.
2) Impact of the above: My misconception of Hide Campsite vs. Campfire Wall had a significant impact on the combat overall. For one to begin the encounter, I had successfully dispelled the Campfire Wall spell to initiate the combat. This would have been surprising to you as you could not have seen the group approach, and they presented themselves fully knowing they would have the element of surprise.
When it was no longer Campfire Wall, but was instead Hide Campsite, the entire nature of the combat changed, as would have the approach of the Boogeyman and Red Caps. However, the beans had been spilled. Backing up, hiding and perception checks were done and we moved back into the combat.
3) Frustration: Jason seemed to be frustrated that his spell didn't prevent the combat, Nate seemed to be frustrated that his character was not effectively (partially due to a decision not to leave the protection of the Jason's spell which is ironic because it shows the spell was effective). I think this was exacerbated by the false-start on the combat.
This was an encounter where an intelligent, knowledgeable enemy attempted to set up the encounter on his terms. Night, surprise, sleeping opponents, he was prepped. However, he was ultimately ineffective and fled. While this wasn't a "win" for the PC's it was definitely not a loss. This was an encounter designed to advance plot, intrigue, and challenge the party - it failed to do those things and the only blood that was shed was fey blood. I should have been the one who was frustrated! (Just kidding, but really...)
4) Tone: I will say the encounter was designed to re-set the tone with the return to exploration of the wilderness and being outside of the party's comfort zone and kingdom. Even on the trip to Varnhold, only a few days were spent outside of Civilization. Now that you are openly exploring, the characters should feel a little bit out of their comfort zones. I have expressed in the past that the Wilderness is a character in this adventure, and as you extend yourself outside of your Kingdom the Wild needs to be reckoned with.
Yes, Vissanica's token is set to see twice as far in the dark as other characters. The dynamic lighting effects have a bright halo that fades to a darker halo then black. The bright halo is the light radius of the light source. The darker halo is still considered within vision (line-of-sight), but creature have concealment (20% miss chance).
I clicked to view from Vissanica and from the other characters and can confirm she saw twice as far. That said, I will check Roll 20 to see if I have the light emanating from the characters with torch equivalent lighting set correctly. It is possible that I have miscalculated diameter and radius measurements, I will double check on Roll 20 between sessions.
Most characters should see 4 squares bright and 4 squares dim flowing out from all torch-equivalent light sources, for a total of 8 squares, surrounding all light sources.
Vissanica should see 8 squares bright and 8 squares dim from the same light sources.
Optionally, I could have judged that the entire map was dimly lit (a full moon and bright stars, no cloud cover) which would have made everything line-of-sight, and everyone without low-light vision would deal with concealment. I determined that the monsters would wait for the moon to set before approaching the party.
Ahh... the woes of an evil character. All those wonderful ways positive energy can be channeled... but the negative energy? Well... infernal healing with an extend rod is quite potent. And Vampriic touch is nice.
This might be partially on me. I didn't really view Vissanica (and especially her sword) as someone who incorporates:
"they take pleasure in spreading evil as an end unto itself. They may also see doing evil as part of a duty to an evil deity or master. Lawful evil represents methodical, intentional, and organized evil."
I did see this (especially in the sword:
"Lawful evil characters believe that law and structure mean power and safety. In their view, a strict, systematic hierarchy enables outcomes impossible for a single individual, so they seek power and security by positioning themselves advantageously within such systems. They may operate according to strict personal codes—private ethics or creeds that may not align with an observer’s concept of morality—but more often choose to operate within (and take advantage of ) the framework of the society around them….This alignment is particularly appealing to those who want to get ahead and don’t care whom they hurt, … don’t want to open themselves up to unnecessary risk. .. rarely make promises—and are invariably methodical and organized in their machinations."
The latter can work with a Paladin. The former cannot.
And I will say, you have expressed the former with Vissanica in her trophies and blood rituals and her abrasiveness, I just though the latter fit more with her kingdom-oriented roles and activities.
If that is the case, it might be better if Akiros remains an ex-paladin (Cavalier? Barbarian? He was a level 2 ex-paladin level 3 barbarian in the book but build as you like) or a different alternate is chosen by Nate.
Getting along with Akiros - All of you would have been working with Akiros for a while now, and despite the natural idealism of his class, Paladins of Abadar are among the most practical. Ultimately, he is a strong voice for the role government plays in bettering the lives and preventing the corruption of authority for personal gain. Further, aside from Anastasia, he is likely the most invested in making Rasdovia a vibrant kingdom.
The only way I see the party having a fundamental conflict with him, is if they allow the Lawful Evil twisting of the law to reach the point of corruption - which is strongly against the code. "I will root out corruption wherever I find it, and if a system is fundamentally flawed, I will work to aid citizens by reforming or replacing it."
Paladin Code of Abadar
Of all the neutral gods, only Abadar supports and promotes a holy order of paladins. As the god of civilization and order, Abadar recognizes the value of holy warriors in advancing society’s aims. His paladins follow the standard paladin code of protecting the innocent, acting with honor and honesty, and respecting lawful authority. In addition, an Abadaran paladin upholds the following creed.
• I am a protector of the roadways and keep travelers from harm. No matter their destinations or goals, if they are peaceable and legitimate travelers who harm no others on the road, I will ensure that they pass safely.
• Bandits are a plague. Under my will they come to justice. If they will not come willingly before the law, where they can protest for justice in the courts, they will come under the power of my sword.
• Corruption in the courts is the greatest corruption of civilization. Without confidence in justice, citizens cannot believe in their countries, and civilization begins to disappear. I will root out corruption wherever I find it, and if a system is fundamentally flawed, I will work to aid citizens by reforming or replacing it.
• I am an aid to the markets. I ensure equitable trade between merchants and citizens. Theft and deceit on either side are intolerable.
• I make opportunities, and teach others to recognize them. When I aid others, I open the way for them, but will not carry them—they must take responsibility.
Great flavor for your wide array of followers. Thanks for adding them to the campaign. I think the story becomes richer with the additional personalities, including Dox's followers as well.
Bannigan recommended the Glass Cannon podcast a while back and I've been using it to pass the time during trips and commutes lately.
https://glasscannonpodcast.com/
I started at the beginning as they begin the Giantslayer Podcast. and am listening forward as they learn more about how the rules interact (they are really bad with some, better with others) and also for new perspectives on DMing and such.
There are varying layers of experience among the players, but they all have some acting background and really get into the roleplay. Highly recommend.
One thing that I like is the idea of "Bottlecaps" that they use. It is a DM reward for cool play. Bottle caps allow you to advantage a roll (Roll 2d20's instead of one and take the higher) or disadvantage a DM roll (DM rolls 2d20's and has to take the lesser).
I like it as it plays in well with the ideas of luck and misfortune in the game.
I think I will replace my prior "get a Hero Point for posting" and instead go with this and sometimes reward for in session daring deeds and good roleplay. So get posting and make me roll twice on those crucial monster saves!
For Cohorts we will use a Heroic Array of stats. Some modification will be allowed for specialized classes (Melee NPC Paladin Swap Dex and Charisma) but this is what we are looking at to build around.
That said, if there is an NPC whom your character has a strong relationship with who you would like to become a Cohort, that is a possibility as well, and we can simply advance the existing NPC up to the appropriate level.
For followers we will use Basic Array stats and, unless there is an exceptional reason, will be somewhat random as to class and trend towards NPC classes as well (Adept, Aristocrat, Warrior, etc.) I would consider an exceptional reason to a specific use of followers such as forming an armed guard, a spy network, a school/university faculty group, etc. Such groups might tend to have more PC classes for higher level followers, though lower level followers would likely be NPC classes.
A few things to adjust:
1) Players may design their Co-Horts and Followers. Please post Stat Blocks as opposed to .por's in the forums, along with backgrounds.
2) For followers 3rd level or higher, the first follower of that level may have a Heroic Array, all subsequent followers at that level will have a Basic Array. Heroic followers may have PC classes, Basic Array followers should have NPC classes.
3) All of these followers should be designed with gear based on the NPC Gear table and proportioned as indicated in the table. For spellcasting classes- wands, staves, rods, etc. may count as "weapons" or for the purposes of allocating funds. Followers do not advance in level or equipment value, however Cohorts may gain equipment value as the chart progresses and may save up over levels. They should, however, have fully allocated their gold upon creation.
4) For NPC's built outside of the Leadership feat for color/Replacement Council positions, they should follow the rules for Elite Array followers but I am going to cap their highest ability score at 16, including adjustments, and these NPC's should be at least 4 levels below the Party's current level.
Well I have lots of e-mails and fun posts, so I guess people are enjoying this stage of the game. I am as well, I think last session drove a lot of creative thought as well.
To get everyone on the same page I wanted to comment here and refer back to my August 8th posting above.
For how we will generate such PC's I'm going to default to raw as seen here:
For Cohorts we will use a Heroic Array of stats. Some modification will be allowed for specialized classes (Melee NPC Paladin Swap Dex and Charisma) but this is what we are looking at to build around.
That said, if there is an NPC whom your character has a strong relationship with who you would like to become a Cohort, that is a possibility as well, and we can simply advance the existing NPC up to the appropriate level.
For followers we will use Basic Array stats and, unless there is an exceptional reason, will be somewhat random as to class and trend towards NPC classes as well (Adept, Aristocrat, Warrior, etc.) I would consider an exceptional reason to a specific use of followers such as forming an armed guard, a spy network, a school/university faculty group, etc. Such groups might tend to have more PC classes for higher level followers, though lower level followers would likely be NPC classes.
As to what Nate created as an NPC idea to bring in as a potential member of the Council, I would say that they will work with the Heroic Array stats as well. However, I do think we want to encourage the use of encountered NPC's as a part of the Adventure Path arc - so this should really be used to backfill PC's with replacements during travel then to replace existing Council Members. Also, these NPC's are not cohorts or followers, they are NPC's who have their own agenda, so building in specific allegiances to specific PC's will be downplayed.
That said a Cohort as a Council member would be encouraged and may be a reason to retire an established NPC, due to the close relation to the PC and application of the Feat.
Now to the idea of Evil Aslan as the General of our kingdom...
I am not adverse to the idea but I do think it is something that will require more than a simple scroll. (Also, I think that you need to include the Material Components for Awaken in the cost of the scroll.)
Examining the Spell and the additional commentary under Intelligent Animals, it is pretty clear that Awakening an Animal gives the animal a personality, but that personality is not based on the Caster. So the animal created may be a Chaotic Good scholarly personality as easily as a Lawful Evil general type. However, the intelligent Animal section specifically talks about taking the animal as a Cohort... So, if you want Evil Aslan as the general of your armies, awakening a Lion and selecting the Lion as a Cohort will do the trick. I'll throw in some stat bonuses as compared to a normal lion as well, similar to the difference between a Basic and Heroic Array if you decide to go down this path, but someone will need to take the Leadership feat for it to be feasible. We could also theoretically build out classes for Evil Aslan under the rules created for giving classes to monsters to bring it up to the appropriate level.
Hopefully this, and the prior post of August 8th, provides some more clarity in advance of our conversation tomorrow.
First, the route taken with the Hellknights is actually a route that does make some sense geographically. The overland routes are almost impossible to traverse in reasonable time and the Worldwound is essentially landlocked. River travel makes sense and to get north and south you have to go through the River Kingdoms. An alternate would be to travel by ocean north and then cut across land, but either is defensible. Why a Duke is needed to accompany the Hellknights may be different question. A Duke, however, might be needed to confirm a treaty/contract that binds Cheliax.
Second, I think is is a party decision point as to whether/how tied Rasdovia will be to Cheliax. Think 1800's India, Canada, and United States as a variety of possibilities. I am trying to balance things within the game mechanic so it won't make a large difference in building out the kingdom, however thee will be a sacrifice of autonomy for stability/support if formal ties are established.
I look at this as tone/flavor more than gaming/power but I do plan to have the story to drive the direction of the campaign and significant choices may have risks and rewards associated with them.
You will depend on what Vissannica tells the group regarding the checks, otherwise we will need individual rolls. Please read Demibaroness wherever it says Paracountess.
The Duke pauses to answer the question, "With such a large force, we move by the rivers of course. When dealing with the Worldwound supplies are nearly at the same premium as soldiers, though a full Hellknight is worth a dozen of these northern men. With the bounty of supplies it is less than feasible to move any other way. I myself will rejoin the fleet at the appropriate time."
Knowledge Nobility DC 16:
The Duke is actually based out of Korvosa.
Knowledge Geography DC 17:
It is likely the Hellknights went by ship to Korvosa then took the rivers, crossed Lake Encarthan, then rivers through the River Kingdom. They will likely take rivers north through Numeria then west towards the Worldwound.
Knowledge History DC 15:
Before the Age of Lost Omens on the site of the modern Worldwound was a powerful, yet barbaric, Kellid nation called Sarkoris. When Aroden died, it caused a very slight planar shift that knocked the whole of Golarion from its normal metaphysical alignment and slightly toward the fearful abyssal plane. This shift manifested itself in the northern reaches of Sarkoris, where their mystics and witches foresaw a time of chaos and a thinning of the borders between realities.
The Worldwound began its encroachment with strange demonic beasts haunting the barrows and tombs of the Northmounds. These foul creatures soon spread out and attacked nearby isolated clan holdings. While worried, the people of Sarkoris believed that Aroden's imminent return would solve the problem.
Rumours began to spread of a mile-long cosmic blight that was rimmed by jet black flames located southwest of the city of Iz; this site became known as the Worldwound. This corruption soon spread to engulf an area the size of a country, destroying what was once Sarkoris. The Worldwound's unchecked expansion was only halted when the Mendevian Crusades were launched.
The Demons of the Worldwound are loathed by Devils even more than they are by Paladins, and the Hellknights are every bit as potent against the chaotic demons as Paladins are. While the other nations participating in the Crusades may not like the Hellknights and the Cheliaxian influnce they bring, they are hard-pressed to refuse such effective aid and their participation legitimizes Cheliax in many political circles.
Having arrived to the full Court and all of the pomp and circumstance that Rasdovia can muster, Duke As-Askara of House Leroung cuts an imposing figure flanked by his guard of fully armored Hellknights and retinue of halfing slaves. His immaculate but understated raiment, well-oiled beard and coifed hair somehow manage to seem effortlessly casual despite the keen intelligence and authority that he holds himself with. Set against the colonial wilderness that he has been travelling through and the lack of sophisticated fashion resources in New Westcrown, the Duke seems to bring an impressive aura of the style and sophistication of Erogain and Korvosa with him.
Appropriate greetings and salutations are made, the meeting is called to order and the Duke immediately takes the lead. His warm smile doesn’t reach his eyes as he addresses the party.
”Excellent, I was worried that my journey would be further delayed, but it appears that there is a decent semblance of Order and Rule to be maintained within this wilderness. Now to matters at hand... Paracountess Anastaisa, Lady Vissanica, and Hellknight Zorthalas, I bear salutations from Her Infernal Majestrix, Queen Abrogail II of the Thrice-Damned House of Thrune, and am here on her behalf to present the Para-countess with this Commendation.”
He gestures and one of his halflings, bearing several scrolls within a lacquered box, steps forward and delivers the box to Svetlana who had been sitting at table and taking notes on the meeting.
“It is fortunate that I was already planning to deliver a cohort of Hellknights to meet our obligations to support the efforts at the Worldwound, and was able to make a small detour to fulfill my duty to our Sovereign Queen.”
Sense Motive DC 11:
You believe that a telling emphasis was placed on the words “our Sovereign Queen” that may refer to Anastasia’s adoption of that particular title.
”Para-Coutness, I am certain you wish to have your Barristers and Officers review the documents, and I will return in the morning to receive the executed forms and prounouncements in person. Such matters must be kept with full decorum, even this far from our beleved Erogian… or Korvoda at least.” With a calm smile he begins to gather his retinue to depart.
Bound Scrolls:
In the name of Her Infernal Majestrix, Queen Abrogail II of the Thrice-Damned House of Thrune, this commendation is pronounced upon the loyal Vassal of House Thrune, Para-Countess Anastasia of House Rasdovain for her efforts in establishing the neophyte Colony of Chelaix knowns as Rasdovia within the lands previously known as the Stolen Lands. With this formal recognition of the Chelaxian Colony of Rasdovia, the free citizens of the Colony of Rasdovia may assume the rights of Colonial Citizens of Cheliaxx, with all of the privileges and responsibilities granted therto. By compact, the Celexian Colony of Rasdovia will be deemed a Protectorate of the Empire of Chelliax and entitled to the privileges and responsibilities under contract and treaty due thereto. Self-Regulation within the framework of the Colonial Mandates and Privileges as Amended XVII and Principles of Foreign Protectorate Administration, Third Recitation, Chapter LIX shall be allowed, with appropriate Tithes and Permissions…. [indecipherable legalese clearly drafted by a Contract Devil]…
In recognition of the legal, administrative, and military responsivities heretofore outlined within the prior codicil, Para-Countess Anastasia of House Rasdovain shall be elevated to Para-Duchess, with the title to vest as a hereditary Duchy only upon the recognition and elevation of the Colony as a principle Province of the Empire under Title LXVI, Chapter MCLIV, of the Ancient Codicils Pertaining to Elevation of Non-Contiguous Geographic Regions Under Political Control as applied……. [indecipherable legalese clearly drafted by a Contract Devil]…
Read Scrolls and Knowledge Nobility DC 15:
At its base this document would bind Rasdovia as a Colony of Cheliax and subject to the rule of House Thrune, as well as to the Infernal Bargain and relationship Hell. Anasatasia would rule under House Thrune as the equivalent of colonial governor, ruling at the Queen’s pleasure. This would result in a combination of military, diplomatic, and cultural support from Cheliax as well as taxes owed to the Empire.
Read Scrolls and Knowledge Nobility DC 20:
The documents would elevate Anastasia to Para-Duchess which is a considerable promotion, however it is not an inherited title. She would become a Duchess and the Colony become her Duchy as a Province of the Empire should the Colony reach certain economic and military goals, and then only if approved by Qheen Aborgail II. The relative power and wealth, coupled with what House Rasdovain already has would restore Rasdovain to be one of the more powerful of the Lesser Houses and within the grasp of the least of the Major Houses of Cheliax.
Read Scrolls and Knowledge Nobility DC 23:
The documents would provide significant military aid that would increase with the size of the Kingdom, and scalable taxes that equal a Tithe (10% rounded down) of BP per turn for the benefits given. Benefits would include, trade, political influence, and military aid as needed – including units stationed in the Kingdom.
The question came up about Leadership as that feat will likely be available for characters who manage to survive to 7th Level.
My views:
1) Cohorts are NPC's who are "attracted" to the character. This means they will be generated by me, though I would appreciate guidance about the general type of Cohorts you are looking to attract. Soldier, spy, healer, mage, scholar, seer, priest, etc. If you would like to see if a known, existing NPC would make a good cohort, that can be discussed and developed as well. Special/magic beast cohorts are not out of the question either.
2) I would prefer Cohorts not adventure with the party. The party's power level is definitely not deficient and combat is already complex enough. If there is a strong desire for a Cohort to adventure, just understand they will be independent NPC's, making their own decisions and will take a share of the treasure. They do not take a share of experience, however will continue to gain levels commensurate with yours even without adventuring.
3) There is no third thing.
4) Followers will also be NPC's developed by me, but will be substantially less defined. These should add flavor to the campaign as much as if not more than provide routine utility. Again, let me know what sorts of followers you are seeking.
5) For calculating Leadership Scores:
Leadership Reputation: Party members are of Great Reknown. No other adjustments.
The Leader... has a stronghold. No other adjustments.
Note: Charisma Modifier should not include temporary modifiers.
Thanks for bringing this up. My overall impression was that people were enjoying the kingdom building time - and I would encourage everyone to voice their opinion here on the forums.
I was hoping when designing the campaign that kingdom building and roleplay of kingdom activities would primarily occur within the forums to leave the hard adventuring to the sessions. I may be at fault for driving it more to the sessions by forcing the chronology of the week of every month being given to governing. One of the reasons I do that is so that "Event" based plot development can occur, but also I was trying to balance the two different phases of the campaign to make sure one didn't overly outpace the other.
Bannigan is also right that the kingdom building is getting more complex and will continue to do so as time moves on.
If there is a willingness to put the kingdom building and roleplay in the forums where originally intended, and that the pace of building matches well with campaign advancement... I would be willing to de-couple the timeliness of kingdom and adventuring.
By this I mean that if we are in a dungeon for several sessions, we can be doing kingdom turns in the background on the forums and not take up session time - just assuming that everyone will survive and get back to the capital eventually.
If we have an "exploration session" and are exploring maps in a way that takes weeks or months, we don't have to stop and do the kingdom building session every time a month passes... we can assume what is being done online will catch up eventually.
The caveat is that some Events phase activities will not align fully, but we can work that out both in session or in the foums as it fits. (How many times might a penalty for not hunting trolls happen vs. getting clues about next steps.)
Of course, that assumes that people want to use the forums to kingdom build. If we want to do that, I would propose that each phase that requires a decision is given a day for feedbakc (Claim hexes one day, improve terrain next day, improve cities next day, etc.) That way people have time to weigh in if they are interested but we won't stall out either.
So IF the group wants to take Bannigan's proposal, that is my proposal on how to make it work.
That said, this is supposed to be fun and not work and others are really enjoying the in-session kingdom building that should be considered as well.
The negotiations are quickly concluded to the satisfaction of both sides. There is no question that the youth is overmatched, but his limitations in what he is capable of agreeing to keep the bargain from being one-sided. Regular shipments of ore for lumber are set, employing teamsters from each side to travel from Olegsburg to Varnhold.
(+2 Economy as long as the trade continues).
When asked about the dragon he says, "We have seen it flying on rare occasion, but have not approached it. We have had to fight for the land, the mountains held orcs, ogers, and goblins. Fortunately they warred with each other as much as threatened us. There are still many untamed areas within our writ, and it will take time to simply map the region let alone fully explore it. Teams of adventurers have assisted, though some travelling into the mountains have not returned."
Once all have gathered in the hall, a handsome well-dressed young man enters with two older, grizzled looking veterans by his side. He strides in with an effort to show confidence, and bows politely before beginning a seemingly rehearsed speech.
"Greetings Neighbors, I am Aaron Varn of Varnhold. I am here on behalf of my father, Maegar Varn, the Governor of Varnhold. We had heard of the great success of New Westcrown and wish to congratulation you on all you have accomplished under the Swordlord's Writ. We of Varnhold have had similar success, and we have reached the point where we wish to formalize relations with our neighbors with trade agreements."
"Your subjugation of the wild woods of the Narlmarshes is impressive, as is the bounty of lumber that your sawmills are producing. In Varnhold, we have likewise taken control of the resources within our writ, and our tin, copper, and iron mines are all producing well.
"My father had the thought that rather than each selling our goods in the markets of Restov, it might be best if we dealt directly with each other in trade and deny the merchants an unnecessary share of what we each have worked so hard to earn."
"My father has empowered me to broker fair terms, lumber for ore, if you are so inclined."
Finishing his speech, the youth's chest puffs up a bit in what seems to be combined pride and relief.
Sense Motive 12:
You believe the lad is earnest.
Sense Motive 17:
You believe the lad is earnest.
Sense Motive 21:
You believe the lad is earnest, however you believe that rather than being empowered to negotiate, he has strict limits as to the terms he can agree to.
Sense Motive 28:
C'mon, did you really roll a 28? Make a bluff check, because I ain't buying it.
Knowledge Nobility 14:
The lad is dressed in the colors of House Varn of Brevoy, but the insignia of a crossed pick-axe and sword over a broken triangle is not of any house you are familiar with.
[spoiler=OOC Behind the Curtain]
While the roleplaying of establishing relations and negotiating positions is encouraged, the decision is binary as to whether you establish terms or do not establish terms.
[/ooc]
A small group of fighting men lead by a lad named Aaron Farn requests an audience with the rulers of New Westcrown. Svetlana informs the party that the man claims to be a representative of Varnhold, a new city founded in the Dunsward area of the Stolen Lands. They brought a large covered wagon with them as they came into town.
Know Geography DC 10:
The Dunsward was charted to another group of adventurers by the Swordlords of Restov and lies between the Kamelands (where New Westcrown sits) and Restov itself. The leader of the group was Maegar Varn and his band was called the Varnling Host.
Know Geography DC 15:
If one took the South Rostland Road past Fort Serenko towards Restov and turned south at Nivak's Crossing, one would find Varnhod a few days travel south. The city is off the Kiravoy River, a tributary of the Skrike, and lays just on the other side of the northern spur of the Tors of Levinies mountains.
Knowledge Geography DC 17:
A silver dragon is known to live in the heights of the Tors of Levinies and has kept the area safe from monstrous threats for generations.
The mountains are known to be rich with iron, coal, and copper deposits.
Know Nobility 15:
Maegar Varn is the third son of Andoth Varn, a Brevic baron of Issian descent. As a third son, there was no real chance for him to ever inherit, so he took a charter with the Swordlords to found a colony. He is not said to have particular loyalty to his family or Brevoy, and he considers the new colony to be his by charter and conquest. Rumors make him out to be a competent leader and man-at-arms, however Varnhald is growing at a slower pace than New Westcrown and is thought to be a large village.
@DM: Would you be willing to provide some specific guidance regarding the correct balance of adventuring and Kingdom turns?
I think I can speak for the group in saying we want to keep the proportions of the two in line with what the adventure path had in mind. Likewise, I don't mind breaking the 4th wall on this a bit to make sure we do so.
From a player perspective, what has made most sense is to think of it in month-to-month terms. By that I mean we need to spend a minimum of 7 days a month engaged in our Leadership roles or we risk our roles being considered vacant for the next Kingdom Building turn. The 7 days is a minimum, and I/we have really aimed to be in our roles more like 15 days. No real reason why other than a desire to not short-shrift the leadership roles. 15 days spent in our leadership roles would leave 15 days for adventuring, which I would say is roughly the length of our forays out of the capitol.
It is out of this logic that we players have gotten into the pattern of doing one Kingdom turn, followed by one adventuring foray, rinse, repeat. This 1-to-1 ratio makes sense conceptually, fits the time pattern and is congruent with our PC's collective desire to explore our entire writ and subdue any threats there as quickly as possible. We would want to do it quickly both to know what our expansion options are (what hexes to claim, where to build, etc.) as well to identify and eliminate anything that might harm the kingdom.
All that said, you've indicated that we seem to be doing too much adventuring for the pace of the AP. If 1-to-1 (Kingdom Building to Adventure Forey) is out of balance. What is the right ratio? 2-to-1, 3-to-1? We can do whatever but I'd recommend giving us some specific guidance if the AP is calling for us doing something very different than what logically we would do.
OK, back to your regularly scheduled rules debate........
The adventure keys off of both PC actions in adventuring (you kill the Stag Lord) or kingdom events (you have claimed X number of hexes. or built X building triggering an event).
All adventure paths have character level advancement built in, to the point that experience barely needs to be kept track of.
This adventure path also keys off of kingdom advancement.
The spoiler below shows the expectations through level 10.
Behind the Curtain for campaign/kingdom advancement:
You are in the final third of the second adventure. The third adventure is designed to begin with you at 7th level and expects that you have a kingdom of at least 40 hexes claimed and corresponding development. You will then grow that kingdom and adventure until you have about 75-80 hexes and reach 10th level as you complete the third adventure. The fourth adventure begins with the PC's at 10th level with 80 hexes in their Kingdom.
The reason this feels like a late nerf is because the rulings about handle animal and natural perfect flyers being immune to the natural 1 one rule is new, as is the enforcement of the rule.
I'm not really wanting to screw Dox, but more wanting to point out that selective enforcement of house rules is not fun. If we are going to punt on a rule because it feels arduous, let's punt on it for everyone.
Handle animal requires a DC 10 check to get someone to do something they've been trained in, DC12 if the creature is injured. With the house rule, Dox would fail this on a one. I think the reason we haven't been making this check, is because the house rule is new and didn't come up until last session.
Re: Natural perfect fliers:
The skill point plus is equivalent, so it's a subjective decision you are making to draw a difference. Vissannica is not simply a PC with the fly spell, she is a PC with fly as a supernatural ability, full skill ranks in the fly skill, and a magic item that makes her better at flying on top of that, which, mathematically and the only way the game, RAW, measures fly skill, is pretty much equivalent to a natural flyer with perfect manueverability. She's better than a flyer with wings, as they have additional vulnerabilities detailed in the fly skill, plus she has feather fall at will, so should be in even better shape when things go wrong. When I brought up the fact that this house rule would make perfect fliers like air elementals fail at hover, it was to demonstrate that Vissannica is, according to rules, as good of a flier or better than native, perfect fliers, and that the idea of her not being able to hover seemed odd, not so that they would be excluded.
Re: Feather Fall. Feather fall is not in danger of being better than fly. It is, and is intended to be, situationally better. Many first level spells are situationally better than 3rd level spells. Feather fall does not allow any movement except a slowed fall, so that's a huge difference between a first level spell and...
I'm pretty close to saying that I have ruled and that is that. But a bit more so that my thought process is clear:
1) From a house rule perspective, I'm much closer to making a 1 a total fail than eliminating the house rule. The idea of never being able to fail at something seems silly to me. I almost made the same ruling for natural twenties as always having a chance to succeed seems silly as well, but the 1-in-20 chance to be heroic seems fitting.
2) Jason and I have spoken at length about handle animal and he understands that the animal is technically an NPC and there will be times that I say an animal can't/won't do that. The excluding of handle animal checks has much more to do with my sanity/gameflow/etc. than any fairness argument. Considering the cost of failure is that the animal would tactically attack the nearest threat and is often doing that anyhow, I'm not seeing a viable fairness issue anyhow.
3) As to fact that I have given a marginal advantage to Perfect fliers, I think that both realism (no PC will ever be as comfortable flying as an air elemental) and impact (they aren't that common and even then we're talking a 5% that in certain situations there might be a problem for the weakest of the perfect fliers) this is simply not a big deal.
4) I believe that the move requirements of fly are meant to be significant within the action economy and balance the power of breaking out of the standard 2D map. Flight is already destabilizing to rule-set that is built around two dimensions. Rule interpretations in favor of empowering flight would only make it worse. This isn't a PC power vs. Monster Power thing, it is a trying to keep track of a million things in combat within a limited rule-set thing. (Example of things that won't be happening in my campaign: I'm flying while carrying a boulder, I 5'step up diagonal and am directly over my opponent, I drop the boulder as a free action that does 3d6 points of damage and still have my full set of actions available!)
5) Under my rulings above, as a non-winged flier, your character is really never in danger of falling. If you could fall, you could fly straight down and thus not be falling.
6) To that end - we won't be weaponizing feather fall. Trying to use feather fall to increase a character's action economy or really using the spell to do anything but prevent damage from falling isn't happening in this campaign. I don't believe it is contemplated in the text or spirit of the spell. If you don't like the mechanism of the ruling above, the desire is to prevent what I view as rules exploits related to the spell. If a different ruling mechanism seems more palatable, I'm open to it as long as it doesn't serve to weaponize the spell.
(Note: I believe that casting feather fall, as an immediate action, never invokes attacks of opportunity. Standard action or longer spells invoke attacks of opportunity, swift and immediate actions do not ever provoke).
The house rule that makes this new ruling not apply to many of our foes who have an equivalent fly skill is regrettable, as this seems like a late nerf specifically to most PC fliers. I would feel a lot better about this if I knew it was going to be universally applied.
The house rule that makes feather fall mean you can take no other actions that round is also pretty painful, when RAW it is an immediate action. Given that you can take no other actions except free actions, it is effectively now a full round action when cast at the start of your turn? I'm not sure what the rule about it being a move action even matters, if there are, now, no actions other than free actions allowed while feather falling. It also makes anyone feather falling a long distance essentially a sitting duck, effectively incapacitated for the entire journey. I think this house rule needs a second look, as it really makes feather fall a much weaker power, when it really only has a narrow use. I would suggest applying the levitate rules to actions taken while feather falling, and allow the full range of actions. Falling should simply happen slower, and not take any actions.
It's hard not to notice that the house rule exceptions create exceptions for Dox's handle animal(the only other PC seriously impacted by this natural 1 house rule) and non-PCs(natural and perfect fliers), and while there are additional house rules making feather fall weaker, weakening Vissannica's build further, which is very flight oriented, having put a hex, 5 skill points, and a crafted magic item into it.
The house rule that falling is much more damaging already makes flying more dangerous, and this is just adding more danger to most PC flight.
My view of the rules as written is that flying isn't intended to be easy and is supposed to have an element of maneuvering difficulty to it. The rules are clunky and don't fit within the combat model very well at all. The rules make melee fighting difficult to say the least, especially if you plan to use full attack actions. I believe that is intended from both a rules and realism standpoint. The natural one means -10 house rule is a common house rule and I don't feel that the influence it has on flying is overly harsh. At this level the PC's would be at best novice fliers and the fact that they cannot do the more difficult maneuvers without effort isn't unbalancing or unfair.
A few points:
1) The house rule involving a natural 1 was implemented at the beginning of the campaign, as was the falling rule. I don't see these as nerfs to anything, they are house rules that were there from the beginning.
2) The exception for Handle Animal isn't much of an exception in that it doesn't apply to anything but what the animal is already trained to do, which we have never really checked for in any case. When "Pushing" or training, he has to make a check. To be rolling every round for simple commands that the animal has been trained in would be frustrating and tedious and have limited impact since the animal would react naturally in most cases and have a similar effect.
3) I also don't believe Feather Fall was nerfed. Feather fall still does what it is designed to do perfectly well, prevent you from dying from falling. The Feather Fall ruling is to prevent the rule abuse that was about to begin because using the Fly skill/spell to descend 60' is just worse than feather falling because you have to take move actions to descend but no actions to feather fall 60' down. That would be absurd and inappropriate considering one is a first level spell and another is a third level spell. The casting time is still immediate, which would shift your initiative to that point, and then you fall. The multiple rounds of falling is clearly contemplated by the spell.
If you want, we can make an alternate ruling that feather fall forces you to take two move actions to descend straight down at 60' under the rules of the fly spell, but then you'll be subject to attacks of opportunity. That would be appropriate considering the spell level difference, especially considering the power of an immediate action spell casting for Feather Fall.
The fly hex is plenty powerful regardless.
4) Regarding Perfect (not all natural) fliers, a PC with the fly spell is not an equivalent flier (maneuverability good), which is the point. I looked at a number of perfect fliers and it was clear that they all have enough "+" to fly to be able to hover uninhibited, and it would be a poor side-effect of my natural 1 house rule to eliminate that.
5) I will correct something above. You can fly straight up, it is a DC 20 check to do so by rule. If you fail that check you resort to the standard 45 degree ascent angle. So eventually you can fly as well as a perfect flier, it just takes time and effort - which is appropriate.
Well, we are getting very granular now, more granular than I think the rules intend/describe, so here is how I am ruling on these issues so that we are clear moving forward:
Q: Does taking a 5 foot step mean moving at less than half speed, and is therefore only a DC 10 check? If so, this would simply mean I need to take a 5 foot step each turn to avoid the check, as I have a +16 fly.
A: No. 5' steps are not movement. You would need to be hovering to execute a 5' step as this occurs outside of normal movement. There is no additional check to make a 5' step while hovering. If you fail to hover, you cannot take a 5' step. In contrast, you may move only 5' and continue flying if you make a DC 10 fly check, but it takes a move action to move that 5' and the movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.
Q: Can you make a second check to move at less than half speed or turn at greater than 45 degrees, if you fail to hover?
A: Yes, if you fail to hover your round proceeds as if you did not try to hover, so you can make other normal flight movements that do not include hovering. Assuming you will be taking a move action and a standard action, you may take them in any order you choose.
Q: How do you decide whether you move or fall?
A: Falling means you stop flying, then you hit the ground and take damage and are prone. You have to move or hover to fly. So if you fail your hover check, your choice is to hit the ground and take damage, or take a move action to continue flying. It is almost never better to fall than to move, and you may always choose to descend straight down.
Q: Does falling provoke attacks of opportunity?
A: No. Falling is not movement. Exception: Feather fall, see below.
Q: How does falling impact your action economy(i.e. it typically is not an action to fall unwillingly), and when does it happen in the round? At the beginning of your turn or end?
A: If you are flying and your round begins, you must decide whether you will hover or move to maintain your flight. If you choose to hover and fail, then you have to move or stop flying. You must take a move action and move at least 5' (with a DC 10 fly check) or at least half your movement without a fly check to stay aloft without hovering. This is normal movement and would invoke attacks of opportunity. If you stop flying you fall, take damage, and end up prone on the ground. At that time you would still have all of your actions remaining.
More rare:
Q: What if you cannot move due to enemies or walls surrounding you?
A: You can always move by descending at any angle, including straight down. If you truly cannot move and fail to hover, you stop flying and fall.
Q: What if you can only move upwards?
A: You cannot move straight upwards (unless you have naturally perfect flight, see below), so you can descend or stop flying and fall.
Q: What if an enemy is below you, and you fall on top of them?
A: We are not creating a new attack type where you intentionally fall upon people. If you fall and an enemy is below you, you will pass by them and hit the ground taking damage. Realistic? Maybe not, but that's my ruling. Note: You could charge while descending and cover a lot of ground, but it is still controlled movement, not falling.
Q: How does feather fall fit into this(Vissannica has feather fall permanently, but others will not)?
If you are feather falling, you fall slowly enough (60') that it does count as movement for the purpose of taking actions (Falling up to 60' is one action, falling up to 120' is two actions, falling more takes more than one round). Feather falling does not allow for any actions other than free actions and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This same ruling applies during the floating period that occurs upon expiration of the fly spell.
Notable: Witches with the flight hex have feather fall at will. This is not permanent feather fall. It takes 1 immediate action to invoke, just like the feather fall spell. If you are sleeping, paralyzed, dying, or otherwise incapacitated and unable to take an immediate action to invoke the supernatural ability, you cannot invoke feather fall.
Not really a question: I'll be able to be safe to hover around 8th level with a ring of improved flying.
Not really an answer: Don't forget the bonus to fly that the fly spell gives you.
Other ruling/house rule: Creatures with a natural fly speed and a Perfect designation can hover automatically and can fly straight up. (See: Hummingbirds, air elementals, etc.).
