Ah, Oppara! Is there a better place to be? Oppara's not just about the monuments and structures, though no one can dispute the glory of the Grand Bridge, spanning the mighty River Porthmos, nor the grandeur of the two stone lions that alternately pace, snooze, and roar atop the Lion Gate, Oppara's main entrance. Oppara is also a working city, with two harbors so busy that ships have trouble finding slips. It's a city of art and music, where you might find anything from the magnificent plaza around the Imperial palace to a tiny, secluded jewel of a courtyard, with mosaic paths, a sparkling fountain, and ornate stone benches beneath olive trees, cool in the afternoon heat. Full of art, music, debate, and delicious foods, Oppara is a treat for all the senses. It's difficult to say whether the view of the black cliffs under the sunlight or the thousand lamps of the night streets is the more magnificent sight.
Really, what does it matter that the gold has been stripped from the magnificent buildings it adorned in the past? The marble and stone beneath is still majestic, and the buildings still impressive. And so what if the laws and customs of Taldor seem to be falling behind the rest of the world, as the nobles and politicians quash all the so-called 'advancements' of other countries and governments. There's something to be said for stability, and Taldor has stability to spare.
I'm delighted to be running the politicking and influencing-heavy AP "War for the Crown" for you guys! Let's get this show on the road and start discussing the game and characters.
Background:
AP Blurb wrote:
As the political scene in Taldor explodes into chaos, players take on the role of agents, advocates, and saboteurs working for Princess Eutropia to help secure her claim to the Imperial throne and prevent the Empire from collapsing in on itself in civil war. Along the way, the PCs must uncover hidden secrets of Taldor’s past—many deliberately hidden—and grow from relative nobodies to powerful politicians and spymasters in the deadliest political arena in the Inner Sea.
Arenas
Since this was available to purchase in Roll20, we'll have a mapping/combat website there. We will also have a wiki because of the number of characters and non-combat challenges in this AP. I see not many have tried this as a pbp, so I'm hoping we can make it work by being creative and flexible. A lot of the GM threads mention what a blast their group is having with the AP, so be innovative and flexible and have fun!
Prequel
I'm going to start with a quick prequel adventure with very short scenarios. This will help you learn about Taldor, flex your characters, get used to working as a party, and become acquainted with some of the major NPCs in the AP. Combat in the prequel is short, so it'll be easy to do in pbp.
Live sessions?
As we get rolling and into bigger dungeons, I was wondering if you are open to scheduling a dungeon-delving session on Roll20/Discord so we can move through large dungeons in a timely fashion. We can start in pbp and decide as we see how well combat rolls. Since I've purchased the Roll20 packages, it'll be very easy for me to run the combats relatively quickly on Roll20. Keep it in mind and we can decide later. I hate to schedule a weekly session because there's so much RP in this AP, but I can tell you when a big dungeon is coming up and we can decide if we want to schedule an online session when convenient for everyone. Even 2 hours can make a huge difference to the pace of the game.
Builds
Paizo classes, archetypes, and prestige classes allowed. Archives of Nethys will be our general source for what's allowable. No guns or third-party products, please.
Build your character at first level with a 20 point buy, full hit points (of course), max starting gold.
Your character should have two traits. One can be selected (as appropriate for your character) from Paizo products. The other should come from the campaign traits in the pg. If none of those work for your character, we'll come up with something together.
Your backstory should agree with the conditions in the PG, though you do not have to work Martella in. The intro will help things fall together organically.
Skills: Use background skills. This takes some of the skills out of the adventuring group and gives you two extra skill points each level for them.
Planning: This AP is scheduled to move players from L1 to L17.
Advancement: I plan to let you know when to advance your characters, depending on the needs of the AP. I will try to be certain you get enough experience in (combat or skills or RP) to justify the level-up.
Posting: I'd like to generally get one post in from each PC daily during the week. I know weekends and holidays can be tight, but please try to post, especially if we are in combat, so it doesn't drag out too long.
Formatting: "Character dialogue." Internal thoughts. Out of character
My address book shows "50 of 446 addresses" and seven or so pages available, but all the pages past the first are blank. I certainly don't have 446 addresses in my PM directory.
Life was going along fine. Then, something happened to change that. Then something else. And another thing. Suddenly, you were on the road with nothing but your pack and a little money. Friends, family, fiancees - all have turned their backs on you.
Worse, whatever you tried has failed. New job, new town, new trade - nothing has worked. Did you inadvertently offend some stray, arbitrary god? Did someone lay a curse on you?
You haven’t found a reason for the change yet. Perhaps it is just the vagaries of fate. Or perhaps wandering is no worse than your life before. Whatever the case, the lonely road seems to be your destiny now.
Welcome! Discussion for "Regular Joes" 1E-feeling campaign using basic PF rules.
Character creation:
Stats:
Either: 18, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9
*OR*
One 18 and roll the rest, 4d6 drop the lowest.
Classes:
Build a 1st level commoner (max hp is PF 1st level standard).
Equipment:
Hold off for now. I'll work on it.
No traits. No backstory required. Not Golarion. No standard pantheon - that'll be revealed as we go. Making it all up as I go. If you want to make up some sort of commoner, peasant, low-life backstory, feel free.
A gentleman regarded Westchannel and the islands beyond from the vantage of a balcony on the western shore. The sunset behind him shone a brilliant orange on the walls of high vira and palaces of Rego Corna, northernmost of the island sectors of Westcrown, laid out for his view. It illuminated the lesser sectors of Laina and Aerum precisely as beautifully, which the man found amusing. The fresh breeze from the Inner Sea blew the short cape from his shoulders and snapped the pennons adorning the mansion where he resided, pennons proclaiming this house the residence of the highest prelate of the Church of Asmodeus.
The pennons were hardly needed, for the man wore the full splendor of the Cardinal’s robes to which he was entitled. Though not of lofty stature nor impressive build nor exquisite face, the man’s impeccable grooming and posture displayed the impressive red and black garments to their full effect. No passers-by could mistake the gentleman for anything other than what he was: Cardinal Goro Altoviti, late of Egorian, newly named high cleric of Westcrown.
Though most nobles and clergy in Egorian regarded Westcrown as a sort of disgraceful exile, Cardinal Altoviti had requested it, if by requested one understood constant petitioning of his superior for a number of months. She was dismayed to have her most promising protege suffer a transfer to such a mean post, for it reflected badly upon her as well as he, she thought. Nonetheless, she had finally granted his request, persuaded by his smooth reasoning and considerable charm, precisely as he knew she would.
Altoviti had eschewed the clerical chambers in the Qatada Nessudidia, the great temple of Asmodeus in Westcrown, much to the relief of their current occupant. Instead, he had used persuasion and wealth to separate an ancient crone of a near-extinct family from her too-large hereditary mansion - as the last of her line, she had no need of it - and sent her to a more fashionable retirement in Egorian, where she could be entertained by parties and opera nightly in that glittering city. Altoviti now had his own headquarters, secure from the prying eyes of his church’s useless priesthood in this city, where he could quarter his own staff and meet with adherents freely.
He had relocated to this new demesne quite recently, receiving the polite, uncertain bows of the Wiscrani with impassive and precise courtesy. Now he could take a few moments to survey the heathen territory of his new priesthood, with the church at his back and his enemies before him, bathed in orange light. He had scarcely relaxed into sunset musings when a knock came upon the door.
“Enter.” A cloaked, hooded, and gloved figure let itself into the room, gliding over to bow profoundly before the Cardinal.
“Well, what news?” the great man asked.
“They are parochial and suspicious,” the man replied, “And it may take some time to gain trust.”
“That is no surprise; it is just as we thought,” replied the Cardinal, “And you cannot complain of being short of money or support to accomplish your goal. I desire results, not excuses.”
“As His Excellency wishes,” replied his companion, coolly, “As I have no cause to complain about support, neither shall you have cause to complain of my results. Gold opens many doors, and this is a poor city; once a few fall, an avalanche will follow. The old noble house are the worst, yet they must do business with tradesmen and craftsmen, each of whom know a little of their habits. I, though, shall know all their habits together, and you shall know what I do, My Lord.”
“Tread prudently in the city, and I will do the same in the church. When we see the tracks of our quarry, or a stray ear or antler behind a tree, well, then I will summon the huntress.”
The hooded man chuckled. “As you say, Excellency.” At a dismissing wave of Altoviti’s hand, he bowed and withdrew.
All is dark. Then come the visions, dreams, of Jenivere under sail, canvas snapping in the fresh breeze… a privateer draws close, but the captain and first mate order the crew to the guns, and the pirates are driven off… a storm rolls the ship, passengers staggering to their bunks to strap in while the crew reefs the sails… the magnificent sunrise the morning after the storm… fishing off the side in calm waters while the dinghy ferries passengers from a tiny port… a fresh wind rolls the waters, making balance uneasy and the stomach queasy…
Whisperleaf:
You are at dinner - “mess”, the sailors call it - one of the last you’ll be aboard Jenivere. In a few more days, Eleder will be in sight, along with the end of the voyage. You finish your oddly-seasoned meal and rise to leave the table, but the man sitting next to you scoots back at the same time. The leg of his stool lands atop your foot, a piercing pain…
… that’s real. Stomach heaving, head reeling, your foot is being pinched very painfully. Why are you lying on sand in the pale light of dawn? Or dusk? And what’s making your foot hurt? You raise your head groggily…
Your foot is in the pincers of a giant… thing. Sleek and dripping wet, it has your foot in the grasp of one of its two pincers while an ominously sharp-tipped tail rises above its back. As you stir and sit up, it releases your foot and backs off, obviously startled.
Around you lie people you recognize from on board the ship, other passengers, and even a prisoner. A pile of personal goods lies likewise above the high-tide line, very near your head. You recognize some of your things among the jumble. But none of the crew or officers are here. You’re the only one awake, and you’re all alone with three pincered, stinging things the size of a large dog emerging from the surf, in search of a meal. Your foot is bleeding, and the scent of your blood seems to be attracting the others as the first quickly recovers from its startlement.
You take 1 point of damage from the bite on your foot. You are dressed as you were at the last mess - if that’s armored, you still have your armor on. The pile of gear is nearby and your weapons are there. It’s your turn.
Kintargo has always seemed a city apart from the rest of Cheliax. Separated from Cheliax proper by the Menador Mountains, it is physically apart. Filled with ships and travelers from far countries, it is culturally cosmopolitan, very different from the other major Chelaxian cities. And, despite the presence of the Church of Asmodeus, the stubborn independence that characterizes Kintargans keeps the flame of rebellion alive here.
Still, when knights of Iomedae defeated the Hellknights of the Order of the Godclaw and began calling for open revolution against the rule of Asmodeus and House Thrune, the citizens of Kintargo generally thought them naïve and foolish. Over the past few decades, the citizens and rulers of Kintargo have learned a great deal about keeping their heads down and not drawing attention to themselves, simply going quietly about their business and ignoring, as well as they could, inconvenient dictates of Asmodean rule. They feared the call to revolution would result in disaster.
House Thrune acted swiftly to declare martial law in the major cities, including Kintargo; much to the surprise of the citizenry, who had not risen in rebellion at the call of the “Glorious Reclamation”. Thrune sent one of its own, Barzillai Thrune, to be Archduke of Ravounel: a surprising move, since nobles in favor tended to remain in Egorian, leaving those nobles who had made a political misstep to be shipped to the hinterlands in virtual exile. But it was rumored that Barzillai had volunteered to rule the archduchy, and, when Kintargo’s Mayor, Jilia Bainilus, disappeared ten days ago (on a ship bound for Andoran, according to some rumors), he moved in to personally rule Kintargo. To help keep order in case the Glorious Rebellion infected Kintargo, he imported Hellknights from the south and began enlisting loyal Chelaxians in a sort of home guard, called the Chelish Citizens’ Group.
Seven nights ago, outspoken leaders of seditious groups and prohibited faiths disappeared, along with several buildings which were burned to the ground. The Night of Ashes left underground groups leaderless and in disarray. Whatever membership remains of such factions as the Sacred Order of Archivists, the Bellflower Network, the Silver Ravens, and the worshippers of Sarenrae and Milani has gone to ground. Seven proclamations issued by the new ruler have caused tension and unrest in the city, with citizens fearing worse to come. Tension has only increased when minor protests have been dispersed by the new dottari, Hellknights of the Rack.
The first major protest in the week since Thrune took power in Kintargo is rumored to be starting soon. The gathering will be in Aria Park, immediately south of the great Opera House where Barzillai set up his residence. The people plan to gather to protest the occupation of Kintargo’s seat of power by Paracount Barzillai, and the imposition of the seven proclamations. It seems the independent spirit of Kintargo is recovering from the setbacks of the past ten days.
Even with the cobblestones of Argent Avenue and the foliage of Aria Park still wet from the morning’s light rain, dozens of Kintargans have begun to gather along the facade of the opera house to protest the city’s new lord-mayor, Paracount Barzillai Thrune. The city’s new leader was appointed by Her Infernal Majestrix, Queen Abrogail II, in the wake of the previous lord-mayor’s sudden flight from the city — an event that still has local rumormongers whispering furiously. In a scant seven days, Paracount Thrune has instituted martial law, a curfew, and seven outlandish and polarizing proclamations. These actions and more have called many of Kintargo’s dissatisfied citizens here on this overcast morn. There’s been no sign yet of Barzillai Thrune himself, and the opera house’s doors remain tightly closed—as they have since the man chose the landmark as his new home—but judging by the growing sound of the protesters, he surely can’t ignore the scene on the streets below much longer.
The protest has been bruited about for a couple of days, though nobody knows exactly when it is supposed to start or what precisely will happen. Some of the locals move with purpose, assembling into tight groups which are starting rough chants to make their positions known; other citizens wander around between the chanting clusters, curious or perhaps trying to make up their minds about what position to adopt.
Street vendors, taking advantage of the unusual opportunity, set up their carts nearby, and the fragrance of hot food wafts through the air as a few children dash between the protestors, chasing one another with screams and laughter. The event could almost be festive, save for the undercurrent of tension and the silent vigilance of the half-dozen or so guards lined up in front of the opera house's tightly closed doors.
Go ahead with intro posts for your characters, including a physical description and any RP you wish to start with the others. Once everyone has posted, the action will continue.
This is the discussion for a "Three Musketeer"-style campaign. I'll start building the campaign info tab soon. My players can feel free to post and start discussing character ideas whenever they like. It's going to take me a little bit to build the campaign, but we can get started with the first encounter fairly quickly once characters are built.
This will be an original and, I hope, organic campaign. A few of us were discussing what made another campaign so fun to play and great to read, and decided that we as players had done a lot of world-building, not waiting on the GM to post and then just relax. Our characters played off one another well and we made up a lot of incidental things that the GM rolled with beautifully. Though this will be set in Golarion in a specific timeframe, I hope players will feel free to help build the world, particularly in setting and feel, but also in NPCs, events, vendettas, etc. Because it's original, there's a good chance I can weave them into the story.
So get ready to buckle some swashes! Be bold and daring! Our adventure begins SOON.
Welcome to the discussion thread for the Hell's Rebels Campaign. Please look at the Campaign Info tab for background information and rules about character creation.
To begin character creation, click on "My Account" in the top line menu of the Paizo Forums. You will be prompted for a signin even if you are already signed in (to verify that you are you before account changes are allowed).
The third box in the left column is for Messageboard Aliases. To start a new character, click the "Create New Alias" switch at the bottom of the Messageboard Aliases box. All you need to create the alias is a character name. You can select a picture later, and you can change the name until you have made 10 posts under that name. You do not need a faction.
Once you have created the alias, it will be displayed on your alias tab, visible when you click on your name on the top menu (Hello, Name). When you click it from the alias list, you will be on the information panel for that alias. You can edit the alias with the button on the upper right and store all sorts of information there, from stats to gear to spellbooks - whatever you like. By convention, we put our stats first. Here is a good, brief example of a formatted stat block. Formatting features like italics and [/b]bold[/b] are described at the bottom of each text entry box, under "How to format your text." Click the Show button to display the list of tags allowed in the posting.
Right now, I am preparing the campaign and recruiting a few mentors for those who have not played Pathfinder before (or who have not played much). You can discuss questions/concerns here, or you can PM your mentor for specific advice/information.
Welcome! Feel free to talk about character creation outside this forum, on Vent or other personal chats. A lot of the base classes and races should look familiar to you, though their roles may differ from what you expect based on how the character is tailored. A fighter can be a tank, but so can a cleric, who also heals, etc. We'll stick with core classes and races to make it simple.
Getting Started!
1. Download and read the Hell's Rebels Player's Guide. The link is under Player Resources on the Campaign Info tab.
2. Think of a name and create an alias with that name.
3. Post here and introduce yourself!
Don't worry too much about a lot of the stuff in the Campaign Info tab. We'll take time to get the characters built and the party equipped, and we'll go slow enough that you'll get the hang of things.
I created two new Campaigns here and here. I populated all the campaign threads and the info page, we've been planning in both threads, and now I can't make the initial post in either Gameplay thread.
I get the empty box as usual. When I paste the text there, it allows me to use the Preview button, but nothing shows up besides the populated text box. I can Submit, it takes some time, then nothing displays but the empty text entry box again. No new entries appear on the Messageboard sidebar log, either.
When I created the campaigns, I did have to put a first post in Gameplay, which I subsequently deleted after the rest of the campaign was set up because I didn't have the first real Gameplay post ready.
It's not an emergency because we won't start until 2/1, but I would like to be able to use these two campaigns without having to set up new ones.
Thanks for your help!
ADDENDUM: I disabled Oladon's Campaign Tools extension for Chrome and re-tried it. No joy.
I also tried using the ADD POST tool instead of just typing in the empty text box. No joy.
I did notice at one point that the url ended in "gameplay#2", so I may have dorked it up by deleting the first post. D'oh.
Discussion thread for the daily posting Hell's Rebels campaign. Feel free to start discussing party/character builds!
And please do coordinate party composition (roles). There's no need to build characters in a vacuum and then have them not function well together. And for once, I'm not running a GMPC healbot - not with two games to run. I also won't have a big stable of prebuilts to flesh out the party, as Council of Thieves provided. If everybody stays in this track, you've got a classic 4+1 setup, leaving that sweet "fifth-class" slot for somebody who enjoys support or versatility.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with. I'm still planning on getting the initial posts up the weekend of the 30th/31st so you can take off running on 2/1.
Though my target is daily posting, it seems like people with those "real lives" things sometimes have trouble posting on weekends. If that's the case here, that's cool; gives me time to catch up with other things or to put up larger, scene-setting posts.
I'm currently gathering players and prepping material.
If you want to keep your Darkness character, check the HRPG first for background material, then decide about your old character. You'll need to change the backstory and traits to fit Hell's Rebels.
I'm considering making this a hybrid campaign and scheduling a Skype/TTop session when we get into combat, so we roll through more quickly. Any thoughts on that idea? I can post a summary of the combat in the gameplay thread after the session.
I'm very happy some of the Darkness crew are interested!
A giant has passed. If you have never read any of his work, stop by the library, pick up one of his works, then just try to shelve it and walk away. His strange, lovely, horrible, beautiful stories will haunt you.
I run a game with some of my friends and have managed to get my boyfriend interested in playing, but recently realized he may be feeling uncomfortable about gaming alone with so many women. That got me thinking.
Do males play RPG's? Sure, I see a lot of boys... er, males... er, men (What is politically correct? I don't want to be offensive) at Gamestop and the other video game stores, but it seems to be strictly ladies' night at the gaming table and VTT.
So, do males enjoy role play? You know, beyond hitting stuff and blowing it up? I want to make my game fun for everyone, not just for women. How do I get them engaged in the game when we're not killing things?
Is there anything special we should do at the table to make males feel comfortable? Obviously, the talk about 'Aunt Flo' needs to stop when men are present. Do the scantily-clad, sexy pictures of the characters we girls identify with make men feel uncomfortable? Maybe we should cover our gaming books?
And what about male characters? I realized that my male NPC's tend to be stereotypically aggressive, smelly jerks. What should I do to make them more human... you know, more like a woman?
I appreciate any advice. I want the games I run to be welcoming to the other 49% of the population.
Westcrown is bustling on Fireday afternoon. Merchants close up shop and people leave work a little early to spend an extra hour in taverns and restaurants before hastening home to bar the windows and doors against the shadows. A cold breeze from the north chills despite the generally moderate climate of the Inner Sea.
A boarded-up tavern sits near the pier where one of the island ferries disgorges passengers commuting to their mainland homes from their jobs on the island. None many can afford to live in Parego Regicona, and few would be welcome to. Despite its prime location, the tavern has a rather weathered but neatly painted wooden sign on the front: Under New Management. Closed for Renovations. Former regulars give their old haunt wistful glances as they wonder when the place will be open again, but easily find another spot for a plate of stew, fresh bread, and a glass of wine. Visio's has been closed for quite some time now. Apparently the new owners had plenty of money to buy the place, but not enough for all the changes they wanted to make. Don't know why they need to change things. It was fine the way it was, when the Visio family ran it.
A group of Hellknights clop through the city past the tavern as the bells strike three times, pedestrians scattering from their path. They seem to be in no hurry and look around casually as they trot past, alert for trouble.
Several of us have had issues lately wherein the dice differ either between our preview and our committed post, or a prior post and the post seen the next day.
I don't have proof but will try to catch it with screen caps. It's possible it is a mass delusion.
This is the first place we noticed and commented upon it, since all the initiatives were eight at first, then they weren't.
This thread is to discuss the new Council of Thieves campaign and characters. Please check out the main tab for background and character creation information. Become familiar with Westcrown as you are able given time constraints. We'll be learning a lot more about the city, but it's helpful to start out with the basics in the campaign's Player's Companion. Links to info are on the main tab.
Please post to check in when you receive this, and welcome!
CoT was engrossing enough that my players did not want it to end, ever. I'm running a followon campaign in which Lord Mhartis is Mayor Pro Tem, elections are scheduled in about two months, and Chammady Drovenge survived and aided the party. The PC's managed to convince Admiral Vourne that they had thwarted a threat not only to Westcrown, but a potential plot against the queen. Why? Because the Church of Asmodeus is entirely silent in the AP.
My question is - why? The plausible theory my players came up with is that the church is in league with Mammon's forces, since Mammon is a servant of Asmodeus. Otherwise, why wouldn't they aid the party against the usurper? The PC's figured this was a first step for a total church takeover of Cheliax, with deniability on the part of the Church of Asmodeus if it failed. They convinced Vourne of this as well, and have been summoned to Egorian to Abrogail's court to receive some sort of honors/reward. [You should have seen their faces when they read the imperial summons, heh heh heh.]
I find their logic rather convincing. Has anybody else played it differently? Is there an official explanation I've missed? Any other good theories?
Has anyone encouraged/prohibited classes in this AP?
I had one gentleman who wanted to play a paladin but thought it might make the AP too easy. He's switching to fighter/ranger, which should be fine.
I have another who wants to play a necromancer, and I'm worried that he won't have any fun. I don't see much in the way of undead he'll be able to command, even in the first book. Besides, creating undead does not endear one to the populace, so I worry about what it will do to trust levels if he's found out.
We're planning on doing without a cleric or paladin entirely. I'll run a GMPC bard to buff and heal.
Those of you who have started already, any thoughts on the above?
Our drive ist kaput - Phillips LiteOn drive. I can buy one new online for $50 with a month warranty, but swapping the PCB with the flash memory requires desoldering and soldering the connections to the drive. They'll do it for me for $10, but I have to send the old one in and that'll take some time. The new drive ships overnight weekdays and it wouldn't take long to install.
Has anybody done this successfully? If so, does the replacement last? Ths box isn't even 1-1/2 years old yet and the drive is shot. It's very disappointing and, naturally, out of warranty.
OK, so it's the beginning of What Lies in Dust and I have a player who followed up socially with Chammady Drovenge after the mayor's dinner. She, knowing he's part of the group who's been foiling her plans, seduced him successfully and they now have a hot and heavy secret affair going. This is based on her actions detailed in the final book with the priest of Abadar, so it's in character.
I figure she'll use him and/or the party to do what *she* wants done as long as she can pick the things that will float their boat. So I'm looking for ideas that will advance her ultimate agenda. Here's what I've come up with so far:
1. Sian is still out and about. I think she'd use Sian to assassinate the priest of Abadar's family, then try to point the party that way to kill Sian and tie up that loose end, knowing they could do it.
2. She might send them on ventures to get them out of the city and disrupt the activity of the Hellknights, who are still a force for law and order and troublesome to her plans.
Anybody see other things she could point them toward, preferably which tie in with the ultimate plot targets? Not having run this before, I'm not sure which events in books 4-6 work out well and which could be changed or swapped using the party as an unwitting tool of the Drovenges.
After three years, three months, and eighteen days, my group finally finished Shackled City. It would have been a lot shorter but also a lot poorer without all the wonderful, imaginative additions from generous DMs here. You guys rock!
I disagreed with Paizo's "Adimarchus is wholly evil and unredeemable" dictate in the last adventure. That sort of thing does not sit well with my happy ending-loving party. Reinstatement into the ranks of heaven didn't seem right, either. And the whole "Adimarchus is dead and you're all done now!" was pretty abrupt. Here's what we did.
The party remembered even before the final fight that he'd reappear lying in state on Occipitus, so after killing him in Skullrot, they placed the body into bags of holding and rested up prior to a trip to Occipitus to dispose of the bodies in the pillar of fire.
When they arrived in Occipitus (with Nidrama in the party), I used Delvesdeep's dream sequences as a basis for the exposition of Adimarchus' fall, all created from the stuff of Occipitus by his restless, insane spirit. They appeared not in an osseous forest or celestial wreckage, but in a green, sunny field with an angelic Adimarchus beseiged by hordes of demons. They promptly decided to aid the lone figure and wiped the floor with the demon horde. Adimarchus thereby began indifferent to them and they won a VP by making him so. Once Addy saw his lost love Nidrama, the scene shifted, mirroring Adimarchus' memories, to effectively a stage setting of the Nidrama/Adimarchus meeting on Celestia. After a few minutes of talk and role play, he'd frown, shake is head, and say, "Wait, that's not right," and the scene would dissolve to the next one. So, in this case, two "angels" formed right behind him, sprouting from the ground but obviously formed by it, and attempted to arrest him.
They did all the right things to make him friendly, protecting him from arrest while urging him to submit to the will of heaven. Confused but swayed by their high Diplomacy roles, he agreed to let them help him. They teleported to the base of the skull, only to find it looking like the top of Skullrot, where the scene with Athux in the cage and Graz'zt trying to bargain Addy into the trap played out. Again, they interrupted, attacked Graz'zt on his behalf, removed Athux from the cage (and boy were they surprised when he transformed to a mini-Graz'zt) and kept Addy cool through the whole thing. Once both aspects were dead, he came to himself for a brief time and led the way into the skull, asking their advice on what to do next.
They voted that he should make things right with heaven and submit to their justice. They hadn't missed a single VP in the whole thing, so he agreed. They offered to plane shift him to Celestia (though I don't think any of them had the key to the plane so I'm not sure what they were planning?). He said he had a better way and would try to repair the damage he'd caused if they let him. They agreed, and he stepped into the pillar of fire. As he immolated, the flames licking his body changed from red to white, and white flame slowly grew in the red pillar until the entire thing roared white. The skull became filled with blinding white light. Eventually, the light faded, the roaring diminshed, and the pillar dwindled to nothing. They looked around to find themselves on a green hillside in Celestia, the Cathedral of feathers barely visible a long way downhill from them. There was no sign of Adimarchus. A host of angels (and eventually a few deities) gathered and told the party he'd given up his substance to rejoin the fallen parts of Celestia to the realm, his substance returning to the stuff of Celestia in the process. Their gods met with them and they were thanked and rewarded. I'm asking for a synopsis from each of what their character would want to do after their return to Cauldron (and all of them elected to return even when offered a free trip to paradise). We'll meet over dinner next week and wrap up their life stories.
It went amazingly well. I had three outcomes planned based on their VP's from the various scenes:
1. Rekill both his forms and dump them into the fire.
2. Get him to a neutral state where he'd agree to call off any wars on heaven or the material plane but would remain in Occipitus and war with his fellow demons (remain fallen).
3. Rejoin the celestial realms, giving himself in the process (best redemption I could see him having).
Addy even rolled a nat 20 on his petition to heaven to allow scenario 3! I guess it was destiny.
The stuff formed from Occipitus was not real, so did not have the same properties as the original. The baddies could do only what Addy could do himself either fallen or in a good form. I took his angelic form from the AP and transformed it to good powers/spells (with a longsword and shield rather than the claw and whip). Graz'zt and Athux came from Hordes of the Abyss, modified to only be able to do what Addy could do magically. Physically, I left 'em alone, since he could create what he damned well pleased from his own plane.
Many thanks to everyone here who contributes in any way. My players are walking on air, and I owe a whole lot of the campaign's success to your additions, questions, answers, and opinions. I hope the above might give others ideas for their own campaigns. I even thank the Paizo booth guys who hard-sold me into buying the hardcopy at Gencon all those years ago. Thanks again! :-D
An eventual Champions of Chaos book that had a section focused on the Old Cults, with some Traits, Feats, spells, and maybe even a few Archetypes for Outer God and Great Old One worshipers, would be very, very cool.
Maybe some Archetypes like a Mad Cleric of Azathoth (who deals with the magic of primal creation and destruction,) Dark Mother Druid of Shub-Niggurath (who tends groves of Dark Young and corrupts woodlands into domains of monsters and aberrations,) Gatekeeper of Yog-Sothoth Wizard (some kind of teleportation or dimensional space/time magic specialist,) Witchcultist of the Black Pharaoh (who sign their names in Nyarlathotep's black book for powers of spreading Chaos, turmoil, and forbidden knowledge) or a Shepherd of Hastur* Bard (who lead troupes/cults of insane actors that travel around putting on plays that drive more people mad, their combined actor/audience flock growing larger with each performance, and specializing in manipulating small hordes of insane followers and inflicting temporary insanity/Confusion/mind-control with their Bardic performances.)
That would be rad.
*Bonus points if the Bard is named Haïta the Shepherd.
Before "speculative fiction" separated into the genres of science-fiction and fantasy, it was all one big jumble in the pulps, under the general umbrella of "weird fiction." You had things like people being magically transported to other planets, where they fought fantastic aliens with swords, firearms, and rayguns. Those authors who created our favorite genres didn't feel limited by an arbitrary line in what to put in their impossible stories. Magic and super-advanced technology were seen as equally at home in their stories of exciting things that couldn't happen in real life. And of course, HP Lovecraft is famous for have combined fantasy and science fiction with his horror.
Golarion follows the tradition of those stories from the pulps, with its crazy and wonderful combinations of everything, just like the authors of old. The setting would have been incomplete WITHOUT a book like this!
I wouldn't be able to stand a game that didn't have a heavy roleplaying element. Back when I was playing regularly, we would sometimes go entire sessions without combat, or even rolling any dice. Elaborate court balls and diplomatic meetings were extremely fun.
Of course, we would also sometimes go entire sessions that were nothing BUT combat. And they were ALSO extremely fun.
But going entirely one way or entirely the other makes the game into something very boring, very fast.
I've been reading about the Ancient Greek Hero Cults, cults dedicated to ancient heroes, based around shrines where offerings were made to the heroes in gratitude or propitiation, recognizing that the hero either achieved something great in life, or died in a spectacular way, and in either case in doing so they achieved a level above that of other men, but less than the gods. (As examples of some of the heroes who had cults built around them, we have both the mythical Achilles, and the historical Alexander the Great.)
Evidence of this kind of cult can be seen in the shrines dedicated to those who attempted yet failed the Test of the Starstone, and the people who leave offerings at these shrines and those who dedicate themslves to maintaining them. These are a wonderful example of hero cults, either written that way intentionally by Paizo or just happily coincidental.
The original ancient Greek idea of the Hero was someone who was more than mortal but less than a god, liminal bengs who existed in a state above the rest of humanity. This is exactly what the Mythic Rules are for, to model these kind of people, and I am very, very happy with the way the rules were handled.
I've been thinking: with the Divine Source poweravailable at 3rd Tier, it is possible to have Hero Cults devoted to still living heroes, rather than being limited to the Ancient Greek model of only dead heroes. Hero Cults could build up around the greatest adventurers of Golarion, (sort of like the Hero Deities of Oerth/Greyhawk, like Kelanen.) And these cults could actually have real Clerics who gained magic fromthe heroes to whom they were dedicated, even though the levels of spells they could cast would be fairly limited until their Hero got to a high Tier. But for Paladins or Rangers dedicated to a Hero rather than a Deity, the lower levels of spell access wouldn't even really be that much of a hinderance.
I just thought it would be very interesting if some of the highest level adventurers on Golarion had dedicated Hero Cults build up around them, as stories of their deeds spread throughout the world, perhaps even by way of Pathfinder Society reports. Some of these Cults could even take the form of adventuring societies dedicated to a famous adventurer, even seeking to recreate his or her exploits. The Pathfinder Society itself could almost even be seen as this type of organization, if only the Decemvirate were of Mythic rank and had the Divine Source power, in which case there could be Society Clerics who gained their power from devotion to the Pathfinder Society itself.
I guess I don'treally know where I'm going with this, except to just throw it out there for discussion. I have been thinking about this ever since I got my copy of Mythic Adventures and digested the rules and realized how well they modeled the Greek Ideal of the Hero, and how well they could be used to model a Living Hero Cult. I think it would be a very interesting idea.
Anyone else agree? Disagree? Or think I'm just babbling? What do you think?
No. All classes are collections of abilities. Some are just collections of abilities.
No, all classes are just collections of abilities. They are mechanical constructs used in tandem with other game elements to realize a character concept.
The only flavor that matters is the flavor the player gives his character. The default flavor (including name) can be modified, mutated, adjusted, or simply replaced.
I wholeheartedy disagree. It is not "the only flavor that matters." Otherwise the entire concept of classes is meaningless. Classes are not just collections of mechanical abilities; they have story built into them.
I despise game elements that are merely collections of rules mechanics with no story or thematic justification. Game mechanics are there to support the thematic role of a class.
OK, so the Ectoplasmic Creature undead template is straight Ghostbusters Slimer/Onionhead-style ghosts, and the Immortal Ichor is flat-out exactly the sealed Evil glowing goo in the basement of the old church (guarded by the Order of Sleep) from John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness, both references which are just BEYOND awesome. I don't know the source of the Vouivre, but it seriously reminds me of the Diplocephalus from Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.
This Bestiary is easily the coolest monster book for any version of this game I have ever read. With the combination of Ghostbusters, Prince of Darkness, and Lovecraft as sources, this book almost overwhelmed me.
Anyone else identify possibly obscure sources of monsters from B4? (Not that Ghostbusters is obscure, but you know what I mean...)
I would like to see a book detailing different Cults of Golarion, from different demon cults to the Old Cults. And I mean Cults, as opposed to mainstream, accepted religious organizations. Everything from Lamashtu to Rovagug to the various Demon Lords to (ESPECIALLY) the Old Cults! Not so much dealing with the beings they worship, but the methods and madness of the cults themselves.
Cults of Golarion.
Or this could easily be combined with the idea of a book about the various conspiracy groups around Golarion (which I also like.) After all, aren't cults essentially religious conspiracies? But I don't like the idea of conflicting "cannon rumors;" that style was used far too much in BattleTech and got old real fast. (On the other hand, the actual BattleTech "conspiracy books" themselves, the Interstellar Players line, were some of my favorite BattleTech books ever.)
Cults & Conspiracies of Golarion.
Whichever, just include some information about the Old Cults! :)
And as d20 cthulhu has shown, if it has stats, it can be killed. I'd rather not see stats for beings like this that are not suppose to be killed.
Have you ever read The Call of Cthulhu?
He got popped by being rammed with a boat.
He reformed automatically, but Cthulhu was "killed" in the very story in which he first appeared. By a single guy ramming him with a little boat. He got better. I see no reason why the same opportunity to ram Cthulhu with a tug-boat should not be afforded to the adventurers of Golarion.
This attitude that gods are omnipotent, completely incorporeal beings really annoys me, because it's a concept mostly limited to more modern, especially Abrahamic, religions, and doesn't really fit very well in a game based on ancient legends and mythology mixed with '30s pulp weird tales and fantasy literature. The gods of the ancient Greeks, Romans, Norse, and other Europeans were living, physical beings, who lived in faraway places atop mountains or in the clouds, and had bodies and ate and drank just like the humans who worshiped them. They loved and fought and killed and died just like their human worshipers, and OFTEN loved and fought and killed and died ALONGSIDE their mortal followers. They had bodies, and some of them were just BARELY more than human, and could be injured and even killed by heroes. In the Illiad, Achilles hit Aphrodite in the arm with a spear and made her run away, and later mauled ARES HIMSELF so badly that the god had to retreat from the battlefield!
And in '30s pulp and fantasy literature, humans battled god-like aliens and mythical beings all the time, sometimes even recasting the ancient gods as alien entities who were mistaken for supernatural gods by ancient humanity. But when modern man encountered them, with modern (or future!) technology, we were very often more than a match for them.
And THAT is the tradition in which Cthulhu firmly belongs, an ancient god who is really a powerful alien, and might be defeated and even killed (but not permanently!) by sufficiently powerful heroes with the right tools or technology (or magic.) (Now the Outer Gods, they're a different story, and they AREN'T getting stats. Trying to get into a swordfight with Azathoth would be rather futile, as would trying to stab Yog-Sothoth. His half-human Sons, on the other hand... well, one of them was killed by a guard dog.)
That's one of the things about the Mythic rules that is so cool; they so wonderfully mirror the way the heroes and gods of real life mythology blended and blurred together, when sometimes you can't tell whether a character in a legend is a god or just a powerful hero or creature, with even a human hero has a cult dedicated to him, or an ancient wolf in the forest that is somehow more than mortal and walks in two worlds has it's own small group of devoted worshipers (both of which can be modeled perfectly with the Mythic rules and the Divine Source ability.)
They're called Liminal Beings, between mortal and divine, with the difference between mortal hero and divine being a gradual transition of steps, with the two blending into each other, not a hard line separating them. The Mythic rules are a wonderful representation of these kinds of Liminal Beings. I mean REALLY perfect.
I usually have no real love for the lore of Golarion and its inhabitants or geography, and I don't even really like reading (those two are possibly related). But I just learned about this and it sounds like such a great story concept that I feel like I must know more.
Inner Sea World Guide doesn't mention much - is there any other books that go in-depth into this legend?
Who was the genius who thought up this idea?
Playing RPGs but don't liking to read?
My mind boggles.
I VASTLY prefer the Nethys style of God of Magic, where he is really the god of spellcasters and the "Wizard of the Gods," and magic is a neutral force* that is not controlled by a god who grants it to mages. That turns mages into essentially arcane clerics.
That's why Divine Magic is there, to be the god-granted magic; I prefer Arcane Magic to be a neutral, almost scientific supernatural manipulation of the laws of physics (like the way the ORIGINAL Vancian Magic System was, in Jack Vance's stories.) It was more of a type of super-science where Wizards were able to manipulate reality through memorizing hyper-mathematical formulae that were based on bizarre, arcane scientific principles that weren't actually understood anymore, but the Wizards knew the effects the formulae created.
*(Or, preferably, multiple forces of magic and forms of magical energy, at least a different force for each school of magic, rather than one grand unified "magical energy" a la "The Force." How many natural forms of energy are there? Why shouldn't there be just as many supernatural forms of magical energy? Like the way Lazurite in the Darklands produces Necromantic radiation; the naturally occurring energy which is harnessed to produce the effects of spells of the School of Necromancy. The School of Enchantment probably uses arcane psychological principles to produce many of its' effects, using esoteric word-sounds that trigger the right reaction in the mind, backed up by a little bit of some kind of arcane energy. And similar for every other School, with each one being based on entirely different forms of energy and using different principles and methods of producing magical effects. Much more satisfying, in my opinion.)
What the Original Poster seems to be missing about 3.5 is WotC's misuse, abuse, and overuse of Prestige Classes, publishing endless *books full of countless overlapping, contradictory, and easily abusable PrCs.
Prestige Classes were intended to represent unique organizations that characters could join, obtaining special skills and abilities tied to specific organizations or groups. Thus the name PRESTIGE Class, as in a Class that represents belonging to a unique, prestigious group.
They were not intended to be generic roles. The only P5Cs that cover generic roles were the Eldritch Knight and Mystic Theurge, filling gaps in the rule system, and they are still useful (even if the Magus largely covers the warrior-mage concept, the EK still has room to breathe as more of a Mage that can fight, rather than the Magus's role of total armored warmage.) But those two are special cases. (For example, was a concept such as "master of whip fighting" REALLY so prevalent that it deserved an entire 10 level PrC? No, but such a thing could easily warrant an Archetype with just a few variant class abilties.)
The Archetype mechanic fills the need that PrCs were used for MUCH more elegantly (as well as bringing back the concept of Kits, and doing a much better job of it,) and I am very glad that Paizo has chosen to relegate the PrC to the role it was intended for, and is using Archetypes to handle niche variant character types. Paths of Prestige was full of Prestige Classes that handled the concept in the way the they were originally intended, that of special, prestigious groups that a character needs to strive to join and can only become a member after having proved himself worthy. That is what PrCs are for; not for representing unusual roles (and game-mechanic abilities) which the base Classes don't cover. That is much better served by the Archetype.
I do NOT miss the misuse of PrCs, and am very, very happy that Paizo is once more using them for their intended purpose, instead of being abused and overused like they were in 3.5. What I think Paizo should do now (and something that I think would fill the OP's need for new material) is release a book or two full of more Archetypes for every class, in a way similar to how Prestige Classes were (wrongly) handled in 3.5, but they should practice MUCH more restraint than WotC did with their flagrant OVERuse of PrCs. Perhaps *books for each broad category of Classes, something along the lines of "Archetypes of Magic," "Archetypes of Divinity," "Archetypes of Skill," "Archetypes of Nature," and "Archetypes of War," or just simply "The Book of Archetypes." Or if they wanted to go all out (and have a long-running, lucrative line of probably solid-selling products,) have a book of Archetypes for each class; I wouldn't be unhappy to see a line including "The Archetypal Fighter" and "The Archetypal Magus."
Mechalibur, once you actually see Agmazar's stats... well, kaiju might not be suitable for the Big Bad of a campaign, but judging by this one's stats, they're good for ridiculously epic fights. Not just by sheer power, but for variety and over-the-top weirdness. "It can do WHAT?!"
Wait, Agmazar is a kaiju? Huh, it didn't sound like one from the description. I thought they were just giant monsters in the Tian Xia jungles.
Okay, what exactly is a kaiju in the context of Golarion?
Well, Kaiju means "strange creature," so I would bet they are humongous monstrosities caused by magical, technological, or environmental catasrophe, or are otherwordly monsters, like the Daikaiju ("giant strange creatures") they are based on; Godzilla, Mothra, King Gidorah, Hedorah (the Smog Monster,) Anguirus, Rodan, etc.
Not just giant monsters, but giant monsters resulting from such a horrible warping of nature that they are almost Aberrations, or actually from other worlds entirely.
At least that's my take on what a proper Kaiju should be. Godzilla was nothing but ancient dinosaur remains at the bottom of the ocean until nuclear bombs and radiation warped him into the twisted gigantic monstrosity that destroyed large sections of Japan.
"History shows again and again how Nature points out the Folly of Man."
Thank you very much, sir. That's what I had thought was the case regarding the Derro and the Greys. I've read the wonderful Classic Horrors Revisited and Into the Darklands, and absolutely LOVE what they've done with the Derro in Pathfinder, combining the classic Shaver Mysteries Dero with the flavor and lore of the Greys. When I read about how they are rumored to fly around in saucer-shaped craft to abduct people I knew it was a reference to the Greys, but I had still wondered if they were going to introduce actual alien Greys and the rumors were just people confusing the Derro for some other creatures.
In my games, I'll just have two strains of Derro; the standard subterranean Derro with wild white hair, and the Derro who routinely crew their saucercraft, who have spread to other planets in the star system (because I want to have the Greys actually be from other planets.)
I know what I'll do: I'll have the Greys be Derro who spread out to explore other planets for additional test subjects, after they reverse-engineered some scraps of starship drive components they stumbled upon in Numeria. After exploring the star system they set up a colony on Aucturn (finding the place to their liking, especially after discovering that the fungus they eat grows like wild on that twisted world.) The Aucturn Derro are bald, black-eyed, and have more of the stereotypical appearance of classic Greys because of radiation poisoning from their barely understood and poorly shielded saucercraft engines, and from some warping effects of the Dark Tapestry, as well as those of Aucturn itself..
And then that just leads into the link between the Derro and the Mi-Go that I have established in my campaign, seeming to me to be a natural fit; two groups that fly around in strange craft, abducting people to perform bizarre surgical experiments upon. That similarity, coupled with the Derro's reliance on strange mind-warping fungus as their primary food source, made me imagine there MUST be some strong connections between the two species. (I imagine that the Mi-Go are known on Golarion as The Fungi from Aucturn, rather than the Fungi from Yuggoth! ;p)
But enough of that, I don't want to derail the thread. I hadn't noticed the creatures from Inner Sea Bestiary that are similar to the Slender Man. I'll look for them. I had REALLY rather hoped that the Slender Man would be treated as a unique creature, and what with Bestiary 4's already established inclusion of several unique beings, combined with the statement of it including "monsters gathered from sources across the Internet" I had REALLY hoped that they would put the Slender Man in it.
Ah well, I can still hope for an official Slender Man! If not, I can still use Golden-Esque's truly EXCELLENT Tome of Slenderotica, which I just discovered yesterday on these very forums. If only I had known about it a few months ago when I started my campaign, I would have done a few things differently. I'll just have to alter a few things to incorporate it now. If anyone else ins interested in putting the Slender Man in their campaigns, check it out. Just search the forums for Tome of Slenderotica, and you'll find it (I actually found it through a Google search of Pathfinder stats for Slender Man.)
What happens if you drop a nuclear bomb on Cthulhu?
He reforms in 1D10 minutes, and now he's radioactive!
I cannot adequately express in human words just how much I am excited about this book (maybe I could do it in Aklo: Qwfl'gjanklc morvwafl phnglui vrf'wvl frnjk!) Lovecraftian themes, the Outer Gods and Great Old Ones, and Mythos monsters are a central element of the campaign I'm running.
And Elohim! I truly hope those really are in the book, because they perfectly fit the OTHER main theme of my campaign!
If they're giving you headaches, toss the wealth by level guidelines out the window, you don't need them, and recognize that CR is nothing more than a VERY rough guide, and just eyeball what monsters you think your players and characters can defeat based on what you know of their abilities. It's what I do, after finding CR to be all-but useless and the WBL rules nothing but straitjacketing.
I don't do "4 encounters per day that each use up 25% of the party's resources", instead the characters just fight whenever they encounter hostile creatures, my characters have nowhere near the WBL amount of magic items, and they routinely fight things 4 CRs above their level. And win, without any fudging on my part. I tried running a strictly by-the-book game when I first started 3E/Pathfinder, and it was a horrible mess, with nothing working. The best advice I've ever received regarding GMing was when my brother (who is one of my players) told me to ignore the CRs and WBL, use my own judgement instead, and just wing it. Just like we did back in First Edition. And as soon as I started doing that, the game became awesome for everyone involved.
I haven't had a death yet (very close, but that's what it's all about, winning by the skin of your teeth) and I barely ever need to fudge the dice, and not only have I not had any complaints, my players have given me special GM experience the last two sessions because they're loving the game so much.
I'm not saying the rules are useless; what I am saying is that you can alter or even throw out parts that are causing you problems or you don't like, and still run a very, very good and enjoyable game.
My houserule is you can have a maximum of one archetype, and only at character creation. (And subject to GM approval.) It's been my experience that stacking archetypes can get messy and often leads to weird corner-cases and the resulting unpleasant conversations/arguments.
All Archetypes have to be taken at first level, and everything should always be subject to GM approval, but, that being said, limiting characters to just one Archetype is really just limiting your players and cutting off some very very interesting character possibilities.
I don't mean to sound snarky, but my experience has been the exact opposite of yours. In fact, some Archetypes were practically designed to go together. As an example, I am like 99% certain that the Magus Kensai Archetype was designed with an eye toward keeping it open to mesh with the Bladebound Archetype, because they just blend so well, both conceptually and mechanically. And as was said earlier, there are several rad combined Archetype Monk possibilities as well. Putting arbitrary limits in place just because of limited anecdotal evidence usually isn't a very good idea, and just ends up cutting you off from interesting possibilities.
Combining 4 Archetypes? Probably going to end up a mess, but MAYBE not, and I've always strongly subscribed to the idea that a good GM should allow players to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't break the rules or ruin immersion in the setting. Combining 2 Archetypes? That can create some of the most interesting characters possible in the game, such as one of the characters in the game I am currently running.
If my players want to try something impossible, I say sure, go ahead, and then describe why it failed. I would never say "no, you can't do that", I let them discover that it doesn't work.
In my game, I don't have magic shops with an inventory, where customers can go in and by things "off the rack." I have brokers (or fences, or often both) who will sometimes have storefronts where they have "antiquities and curios" on hand, which perhaps will include some potions, maybe an old Wand of Cure Light Wounds, and sometimes a +1 Longsword that was made for a major military campaign a few decades ago and found it's was into the market.
And not every +1 sword has a special, legendary, unique history, but, if they look into it, the characters will be able to tell that, say, it bears markings that show it was produced for the Rangers of Ostrovan about 250 years ago to fight the sudden influx of Hobgoblins from D'Chau that eventually escalated into the Black Markat Invasion.
The only "magic shops" for characters to buy magic items is through these brokers, who know the market and mostly work by doing the leg-work of finding out who has what item available that they are willing to part with, and for what price or trade. Or they will find or know of a spellcaster who makes items for commission.
Trade and barter is more common than an actual exchange of currency, and there is no guarantee that what a character is looking for will be available. I control what magic items come into my game. If someone opened a book and assumed they could just buy any specific magic item they wanted because it was in the book, I would first laugh, and then ask them how their character even knew such an item existed in the first place. Fortunately, my players know better than to try something like that. I think the presence of fully stocked, open-ended magical Wal-Marts is severely detrimental to maintaining any sense of wonder for magic.
However, regarding stat-boosting items and other magic items beyond basic weapons and armor, I look at it this way: Vikings and knights and other ancient warriors tended to be very superstitious, and would carry all kinds of "magical" trinkets; colorful stones attached to their weapons by leather thongs, inscriptions carved on their weapons, amulets, bracelets, even slips of paper with "magical" invocations written on them, you name it, because they thought they aided them in battle, or protected them from disease, or warded off evil spirits, or for any other of a host of reasons.
Maybe they didn't actually really do anything, (or maybe they did!) but the wearers BELIEVED they did, so they carried them. Regardless, they were "walking Christmas trees of magic items" in real-world history. Even now, real life warriors and soldiers carry lots of equipment, not to mention trinkets and good luck charms. So, I don't have a problem with characters in my game doing it, because warriors and adventurers did it (and continue to do it) in real life.
I run a game in which the party consist of a Magus, a Sorcerer, and a Monk, and the Monk is the most consistently dangerous front-line warrior in the group. The Magus is extremely dangerous when he gets all of his techniques, spells, arcana and attacks aligned and running in order, but, alas, the player suffers from extremely frequent poor die-rolls, and the Monk is the most consistently deadly fighter by a large margin. And he uses combat maneuvers every game, tripping people left and right (he's tripped ogres and horses!) and grappling and wrestling every combat. Last session, which was just last night, he was involved in a melee on the roof of a building, 20 feet up. The Bounty Hunter who was after the party's Sorcerer had just knocked said Sorcerer unconscious, and was holding him in his arms, about to use a magic item to teleport away.
Fortunately, the Monk, even though he only had 8 hit points left (out of about 60), spent a Hero point, and made a flying tackle that carried the Bounty Hunter, the Sorcerer, and the Monk all off the roof and over the side of the building (the Bounty Hunter had been standing on the edge of the roof fighting the flying Sorcerer, who had just flown close enough to heal the Monk with a wand), wrestled himself in between the Bounty Hunter and the Sorcerer as they were falling, so that they all landed with the Bounty Hunter on the bottom of the pile. The Bounty Hunter, only having 10 hit points left himself (OUT OF 98), had no choice but to teleport away empty-handed just to save himself.
It was the Showdown at the Alright Stable.
It was truly beautiful.
So yeah, we use CMB, CMD and Combat Maneuvers quite a lot in our game. And they work very well.
Roleplay plays it's part, and so does the Game part.
How much a group focuses on which side is a matter of taste, but the important thing to remember, is that they are two parts of the same coin.
It is the balance of the two that makes it what it is, and when you cut out one or the other, you are not playing a RPG, you are playing something else.
The most important part, and I can't stress this enough, is for everyone involved to have fun.
It's the whole point.
I fully agree. I wouldn't want to play in an RPG where no dice were used and there was no chance for failure. I'm not advocating some kind of "free-form roleplaying experience" where you just narrate combats and decide on successful or failure of the fight without using dice. I just want to be able to stay in character during fights, and not have my characters "switch modes" into an ultra-combat-efficient mindset with the uncanny ability to know precisely how closely I can move past someone without provoking an AoO. Or being able to calculate with digital efficiency exactly how many orcs they can envelope in a Fireball while missing their comrades by inches.
Grids and minis always seem to promote this kind of mindset, with combat efficiency becoming all-important, and characterization seemingly always falling by the wayside.
I want to be able to always accurately portray my character and his personality, whether in-combat or not, and I don't think that whether or not my character is in combat should affect how he is played. He's sill the same character; he doesn't suddenly become "combat mode Izar Talon" when a fight breaks out. Depending on his personality, a character should become more focused and serious (but not always) but not turn into an instant tactical genius.
A webcomic I once read demonstrated my entire argument much more eloquently than I can in just a few panels. To paraphrase how it went, it showed a typical group of adventurers in a dungeon, bickering with each other, joking and bumbling around, causing a ruckus, and generally not showing very much competence as they clumsily marched through a dungeon. But as soon as a group of orcs showed up, every character's personality instantly changed into ultra-pragmatist combat expert mode as they all silently moved into optimum position for the fight, even the non-warriors and the most demonstrably incompetent of them. In the last panel the DM delivered the punchline which was "Once the miniatures come out, no matter what they were like before, everyone suddenly becomes Sun-Tzu."
Just judging by the existence of this webcomic, I know that my experiences with grids and minis are far from unique.
I'm all for the GAME aspect of Role-Playing Games and don't want to downplay its importance; I certainly very much enjoy the fighting and wouldn't want to play in a campaign of D&D/Pathfinder with no fighting in it, but I do value the roleplaying aspect just as much. I like planning out characters in advance and making them as combat effective as possible (but not to the exclusion of personality) to the point that my DM once called me a munckin powergamer because my character was so much better thought out than my other friend's character, because my Gold Elven Bladesinger handily demolished his Human Barbarian. So please don't think I'm against the game element of RPGs, or against combat in games.
I never meant to imply that anyone was a "crap dude" because they used minis, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I'd gone far too long without sleep when I wrote that and it probably came across as more hostile then I intended, so I apologize to anyone I offended. :)
Years ago, not too long after I started gaming, I actually used to think that using minis would be kinda neat, but my DM advised me against it, telling me that it was a bad idea because he'd previously played that way for years, and it always ended up totally pulling him out of character and out of the game, turning RPG fights into tactical wargaming exercises or games of Chess. I didn't understand what he meant until he ran a few game sessions for us using minis to show me what he meant.
With the way we normally played, from 1st Edition AD&D on up, we were in character the whole game (except for the inevitable jokes, Monty Python, and Army of Darkness quotes, and Ghostbusters references - those mostly from me.) Including during the fights - but when we played using the minis, as soon as any fights started all of the personalities and all characterization suddenly fell away as we stopped focusing on roleplaying our characters and thinking about how they would act in that situation, and instead started focusing simply on winning the fight, regardless of how our characters would normally think, acting in ways which were very tactically effective but were totally out of character. As soon as a fight broke out, when the minis were on the table everyone became a combat genius, regardless of the character's actual intelligence, emotions, classes, training or history.
That is my problem with miniatures. They seem to enforce wargaming thinking at the expense of roleplaying. Which is fine if that's how you like to play RPGs - I'm not calling anyone's gaming preference badwrongfun. But I and my group prefers more roleplaying focused games - we always speak in character in first person and never in third person (we would never say "my elf likes your dwarf and thinks we should have a drink together", we would address each other by our character's names and speak as if we were the characters.) This extends to the point where our characters personalities have direct impact on how they act in a fight. When we used minis the normally cowardly characters became brave, the stupid barbarian with a 7 intelligence became a Sun-Tzu level tactical genius, everyone was always totally aware of and obsessed with how many Attacks of Opportunity they would provoke when making any movement, everyone always made absolutely optimal use of their abilities... and no one said a single word in character; not one single taunt or threat or jibe or joke or any of the other things that had always been a standard part of roleplaying fights when we weren't using minis. None of the characters had any "character" anymore, but had instead become nothing but combat stats being maneuvered around a battlemat in order to win a tactical skirmish.
As soon as the minis came out, we just COULDN'T HELP but start feeling and thinking like we were generals and our characters were nothing but troops under our command, instead of our usual way of feeling and thinking like we WERE the characters and actually roleplaying their individual thoughts and feelings during the fight. Using minis changed the game from us being players roleplaying a character in a fight for his life, to us being generals dispassionately commanding individual units in a battle.
Sorry for the length of the post, but I wanted to explain and clarify my position - I don't think that people who like to game with minis are bad or doing anything wrong, and I wouldn't even refuse to play with a group just because they used minis (just as long as they didn't expect me to waste my money buying any! :)) I just wanted to explain how and why using miniatures royally frells with the roleplaying aspect of the game for me and the friends I game with.
But even still, sometimes when fights get so big that we need to keep visual track of everyone involved in it, we'll use a piece of graph paper and sketch out a quick map of the area, put the paper inside a transparent plastic sleeve, and use dry erase markers to mark our positions during the fight. But we'll still try to keep as much as possible as a visual in our heads to keep us grounded in our characters, so we continue to see our characters as CHARACTERS and not become detached and start treating them as nothing but Monopoly tokens on a game board.
How deeply are the Old Cults intertwined with society? Are they mostly just insane, isolated backwater rednecks (Deliverance with the Old Cults!) and gibbering ghouls and aberrations in the Darklands and in the Vaults of Orv, or are there cultists in all levels of society, from the high to the low? (as in the original "The Call of Cthulhu" story.) Are they prevalent in the higher levels of society as well, like maybe corrupted groups of nobles performing twisted ceremonies to try to ascend to the Court of Azathoth? (I'm already fairly positive that Nyarlathotep was previously extremely, possibly directly, active in ancient Osirion.)
Ar we ever going to get a deeper look at the workings of the larger cells of Old Cults? I could easily envision a faction of Druids who worship Shub-Niggurath as a fertility goddess. I'd absolutely LOVE to see some things like that.
Are we ever going to get any information on the origins of the Black Blades of the Bladebound Magi? Were do their intelligences come from? And just what are the Black Blades made of, anyway? Are they some kind of otherplanar creature transmuted into the form of a sword (a la` Stormbringer?) Are they formed of some kind of magical/psychic material? Or are they just normal steel infused with a whole lot of magical power? (I ask because of their immunity to being broken as long as they have some of their mojo left - at least one point left in their Arcane Pool. I figure there must be SOMETHING rather extraordinary about them, and I am assuming they share an origin since they are all black one-handed slashing weapons. There's obviously some sort of magical principle at work there; it's not just a kind of Goth fashion statement among Magi!) :)
And lastly; please, pretty please, could we get some more info on the Sincomakti School of Sciences? I've been just dying to know more about Golarion's Miskatonic analogue.
More Lovecraft and the Mythos in Golarion, please. :)
I agree. I hope this book has at least a handful of religious knighthoods as well as secular ones, and preferably ones we don't already know much about. A Cleric/Cavalier prestige class, or much less hopefully a Paladin/Cavalier prestige class would be fantastic for this book, too, but please, please, please avoid the Mage-Knight troupe.
HECK no, that's exactly what I DO want to see!
I want to see some details of actual Orders of Eldritch Knights! I want to see full Orders of Knighthood composed of Eldritch Knights, treating that Prestige Class as actual magically-skilled Knights, instead of continuing to merely use it as a generic Fighter/Mage Class, especially considering that the role of the generic Fighter/Mage is now covered by its own full Base Class, the Magus.
Keeping the Eldritch Knight as just a generic Fighter/Mage instead of giving it a fully fleshed-out role in the world now that they have the Magus class, would be like having both a generic Holy Warrior-type Fighter/Cleric Prestige Class, AND having Paladins and Anti-Paladins. I'm not arguing that they get rid of Eldritch Knights... no way, they have too much potential. I'm saying that since they now have the Magus to fill the role of the generic Fighter/Mage, they shouldn't use the EK as just a generic F/M class anymore; they should tighten the focus of the Eldritch Knight, put more focus on the Knight aspect of the PrC, give the Prestige Class an actual organization or group like the PrCs in the Inner Sea World Guide or Paths of Prestige.
They should make an Order, or better yet, SEVERAL Orders, of Eldritch Knights, dedicated to different causes... kind of like how they handle the Cavalier class. They should start giving Eldritch Knights some details and flavor, and I have really, REALLY been hoping that this would be the book where they'd start, considering the Knightly bent of Eldritch Knights (they DO have a Knightly flavor, after all, what with the actual NAME of the class, and having Knowledge: Nobility and Sense Motive as Class Skills... even if it hasn't been focused on very much.)
As an example, here is one of my own ideas for an Order of Eldritch Knights: (one of several ideas I have but this one is my favorite) a Chaotic Good Order devoted to Desna named the Ancient and Eternal Order of the Chrysalis, who revere Desna, a Goddess older than Golarion itself, as Our Lady of Dreams, an ancient Order who has struggled against the forces of the Old Cults since the dawn of time. They are dedicated to guarding against the return of ancient Evil Gods (which is a Devotion of the followers of Desna according to Faiths of Purity.) They root out and destroy pockets of the Old Cults, working to thwart their attempts to bring about the return of the Great Old Ones and disrupt their ceremonies designed to attract the attention of Outer Gods to Golarion, as well as hunting and slaying the monsters of Lamashtu and Ghlaunder. Just imagine; an Order of Wizard-Knights and Sorcerer-Knights who hunt unholy aberrations across the Darklands, and fight against the insane Cultists of Nyarlathotep and Yog-Sothoth! Totally Lovecraft flavored; I just couldn't resist - I mean, ELDRITCH Knights? C'mon! :). Imagine playing through Carrion Hill and Wake of the Watcher as members of an Order of Knighthood dedicated to fighting exactly the forces at work in those modules. :)
Anyway, that's the kind of stuff I'd love to see them do with Eldritch Knights, and the kind of details I hope to see in Knights of the Inner Sea. Sorry I rambled on for so long, but I have high hopes for this book, and really hope to see the Eldritch Knight Prestige Class given some love and a much better focus than as just a generic Fighter/Mage rules-patch PrC.
