Halruun

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26 posts. Alias of Nefreet.


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It's under the description for Eidolons:

The following skills are class skills for eidolons: Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Perception (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Stealth (Dex). In addition, at 1st level, the summoner can choose 4 additional skills to be class skills for his eidolon. Note that eidolons with a fly speed receive Fly (Dex) as a free class skill, even if they do not gain a fly speed until a later level.

It's also repeated verbatim in the Unchained version.


The line to pay attention to is "Deathless armor does not ... protect against ... negative energy effects that do not deal damage..."

A Shadow's negative energy attack does not deal hit point damage; it deals ability damage.

Think of Deathless as being akin to Resist Energy, except it's versus negative energy instead of elemental energy.


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Addendum: I find the whole "beware of Paladins" comments humorous. Why does nobody say "beware of Necromancers" when it comes to Paladin advice?


You'll get the best advice in the Advice Forum, so I've flagged your post for over there, but Cleric or Wizard is the way to go. Cleric gets access to Animate Dead and other spells before Wizards do, and they can Channel Negative Energy to heal what they Animate/Control.

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All of the APG Summoner archetypes that were legal are still legal for APG Summoners. You just can't create a new APG Summoner.

Labeling them as illegal would force rebuilds of the APG Summoners with archetypes that remain.


Ah, then, Wayfinders away!


claudekennilol wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

It's a slotless item, so probably.

But, due to the whole "sharing items thing", I wouldn't think a Summoner and their Eidolon could both benefit from different Wayfinders.

"sharing items thing"?

It's buried in the APG Eidolon description. Many people are unaware of it:

APG Summoner wrote:
magic items interfere with the summoner's connection to his eidolon. As a result, the summoner and his eidolon share magic item slots. For example, if the summoner is wearing a ring, his eidolon can wear no more than one ring. In case of a conflict, the items worn by the summoner remain active, and those used by the eidolon become dormant. The eidolon must possess the appropriate appendages to utilize a magic item.

I am unaware if the Unchained Summoner removed this limitation.


Augment Summoning works with a Summoner's SLA.

Using that as precedent, I would imagine Evolved Summon Monster would work as well.

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The Unchained errata has no affect on his Summoner. It was played at level 2, and is not required to be updated. It sounds like the OP simply doesn't want to play as a Summoner.

I would hesitate to use the word "Gimp". Some people purely cannot accomplish the same build with an Unchained Summoner as they could with an APG Summoner. I use myself as an example. My goal was to build a Summoner as a "Necromancer", complete with a Greatsword-wielding Skeletal Champion as my personal undead thrall, and specialize in summoning Undead via the Skeletal Summoner feat.

That build is not possible with an Unchained Summoner (barring future archetypes or updates). I've read other examples that are similarly no longer viable as well.


Undead are "Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry."

So, a Longspear is totally fine. Talk to your GM about allowing other weapons, since I've seen plenty of variant Skeletons in APs and Modules wielding non-simple weapons.


The T.N.A. (Thread Necromancers Association) approves of your comment, Tursic.


Summoner wrote:
Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures

In order for a creature to keep equipment it didn't already have, it must be Called.


It doesn't appear with any gear.

You'd have to hand it stuff to put on or wield every time it's summoned.


Ghost Touch weapons aren't of great use to incorporeal creatures because the weapon itself isn't incorporeal, and can't pass through barriers like its wielder can.


mplindustries wrote:
Frankly, I don't know how you would combine them anyway

Thank you for that. Never noticed myself.

I guess a Bloody Burning Skeleton is a houserule of its own.


Julius Foxton wrote:
but them's the rules ;)

Them is not.

I've provided the relevant quotes.

Each of those variants, independently, cost double.

Mathematically, applying both would mean tripling.

Or even quadrupling, but it's such a sub par tactic already I wouldn't want to suffer that logic upon anyone.

Plus, you still have to get this passed by your GM.


Say a 5th level Cleric casts this spell.

They can create 10 "HD worth" of Undead with one casting.

They could create any of the following:

10 Skeletons
5 Bloody Skeletons
5 Burning Skeletons
3 Bloody Burning Skeletons + 1 Skeleton

And other combinations that add up to 10.


Then there'd never be a reason to create "just" a Bloody Skeleton.

Hence why I said earlier, "otherwise you're getting the second template basically "for free"."

It makes much more sense to add the multipliers together.


So, a 1 HD Skelton would cost 25gp to create.

A 1 HD Burning Skeleton would cost 50gp to create.

And a 1 HD Burning Bloody Skeleton would cost 75gp to create.


For ease of reference going forward:

Level cleric 3, sorcerer/wizard 4

Components V, S, M (an onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead)
Targets one or more corpses touched

This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies that obey your spoken commands.

Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. The desecrate spell doubles this limit.

No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward this limit.

Edit: edited out some of the non HD-related content to make it more readable.


Oh! I see the problem now.

Going back to my original post, templates rarely add HD.

And none that I know of double the base creature's HD.

That mention of doubling is for purposes of calculating Animate Dead.

Not actual Hit Die.


Numerous variant skeletons exist, such as those whose bones burn with an unending fire and those who drip with gore and reassemble themselves over time. Both of these variant skeletons can be created using animate dead, but they count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice per casting.


I presume you're talking about "doubling HD" for purposes of Animate Dead?

In that case, I wouldn't count it as just double, either. Probably triple, as otherwise you're getting the second template basically "for free".

Creating a Bloody Skeleton shouldn't cost the same as creating a Bloody Burning Skeleton.


GMs do have the ability to say "no".


Templates rarely add HD. The Skeletal Champion is rather rare in what it does.

The other two templates you listed do not add HD, so you're correct thus far.

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And this is the profile of his Eidolon.