Asmodeus

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I have a question about the Oasis. Is the doubles fight going to be too easy if I don't do the tree fight? The tree really just seems unnecessary for the story, and it really doesn't make sense for it to occur and then the Mad Poet walks out and is all like "oh hello, didn't know you were here." So is the party going to be too strong for the final fight without it? Any unique experiences in general that anyone had with this section would also be appreciated.


Davor Firetusk wrote:
That is what I ended up doing and it worked fairly well.

Coolio thanks


I'm way back in book three but had this thought when skimming so I thought I'd ask. I'm using milestone leveling instead of XP. When should the party reach 17th level? The wording makes it seem like after the final fight, but that's no fun for the party. Just quickly glancing at the CRs of encounters, I was thinking maybe at the end of part 4? That way they go through all of the final fights at their strongest.


YogoZuno wrote:
Ekaj wrote:
On the idol of Bokrug, I'm hoping my players just focus on stealing the idol and GTFOing. Knowing them they won't, but would this just be a disarm check? Reading the rules it seems that you have to use a weapon to disarm, and the item disarmed is just dropped. But if a party member were to just try and take the idol out of the priest's hands, I'd rule they don't get the -4 from not using a weapon, and the idol wouldn't drop. Does that make sense?
A successful Disarm forces the target to drop an item it is holding, so this would potentially work. Knocking out or killing the priest also works. There are no game rules for a 'tug of war', but some form of contested Strength or Combat maneuver check would make sense. It should probably also still provoke.

Yeah I ended up using Disarm after actually reading through Combat Maneuvers.

I do have another question. I have the stats and everything prepped for the nightmare encounter at the end of the book. I kind of swapped around the class levels of a few characters, notably, our Paladin's double is of course an antipaladin. And the Antipaladin has a very *very* good ability when paired with the Nightmare template's Fear Aura, namely the Antipaladin's Aura of Cowardice that gives a -4 to all fear saving throws as well as getting rid of our Paladin's fear immunity (something I'm actually super ok with, he's had it coming). Is this just too much? The more I twist my evil DM mustache, the more I kinda feel like it might be too much. But at the same time, it's just an all but guaranteed -2 to everything, is that too bad?

Also does each party member have to make the save against each nightmare? So everyone makes 4 saves? Seems like it'd bog the game down a little. I could just have everyone make a save against the Sorcerer's DC as his is the highest, or make their chances very slim.


On the idol of Bokrug, I'm hoping my players just focus on stealing the idol and GTFOing. Knowing them they won't, but would this just be a disarm check? Reading the rules it seems that you have to use a weapon to disarm, and the item disarmed is just dropped. But if a party member were to just try and take the idol out of the priest's hands, I'd rule they don't get the -4 from not using a weapon, and the idol wouldn't drop. Does that make sense?


NobodysHome wrote:
Ekaj wrote:

Oooo cool now I have a question. So my players started out their dreamlands rituals very slow, I don't think they successfully got a research check for the first week or so (you can go back and find some of my old posts with me worrying that they're dumb as rocks), so I was pretty confident that they'd make it to Cassomir either before finishing the dreamquests, or at the same time. Though now they're on Day 36 and have finished all the research as well as three of the quests. I'm just wondering if they're going to run into any kind of problem with finishing the quests and going back to the caravansarai (Part 3) before reaching their destination? Ideally they'd finish Part 1 and Part 2 within the same few days, but if they do everything on pace with what they've been doing, they'll be done with the quests before reaching Lake Kallas. I'm worried:

1. They'll be too weak to take on all the stuff in part 3 (as I'm doing exp level up for this book as I talked about in an earlier comment)
2. They'll lose all the context they get from Part 1 that has to do with Part 3, and even Part 2.
3. They'll finish Part 3 and then feel like the rest of Part 1 is a cakewalk and anti-climactic (this is the most important one for me).

Any ideas?

Well, my party had two PCs with maxed-out Knowledge skills, so they finished the entire set of dream quests, plus the meeting with the Mad Poet, all by Day 29 of the journey.

So the river run will be a cake walk, but I think they'll enjoy it just because they've now gone from level 7 to level 10 and received exactly -0- gold pieces for doing it (actually -125 gp each because they paid for their passages), so killing low-level mooks and stealing their stuff will be a welcome change of pace.

Though the lack of anywhere to do any proper shopping is still a serious sore point with them.

Ok so yeah maybe I will be ok. Thanks!

I did actually bump up the first encounter with those pirate guys to day 29 just because things were dragging on, so they do have a little stuff to take with them, but yeah they're probably enjoy being OP for awhile.


Oooo cool now I have a question. So my players started out their dreamlands rituals very slow, I don't think they successfully got a research check for the first week or so (you can go back and find some of my old posts with me worrying that they're dumb as rocks), so I was pretty confident that they'd make it to Cassomir either before finishing the dreamquests, or at the same time. Though now they're on Day 36 and have finished all the research as well as three of the quests. I'm just wondering if they're going to run into any kind of problem with finishing the quests and going back to the caravansarai (Part 3) before reaching their destination? Ideally they'd finish Part 1 and Part 2 within the same few days, but if they do everything on pace with what they've been doing, they'll be done with the quests before reaching Lake Kallas. I'm worried:
1. They'll be too weak to take on all the stuff in part 3 (as I'm doing exp level up for this book as I talked about in an earlier comment)
2. They'll lose all the context they get from Part 1 that has to do with Part 3, and even Part 2.
3. They'll finish Part 3 and then feel like the rest of Part 1 is a cakewalk and anti-climactic (this is the most important one for me).

Any ideas?


Tasfarel wrote:

In my opinion it would be totally legit to mess arround with the class levels of the twins.

After all the characters might either be tricked in the past or they where exactly knowing what lowls was trying to do. In other words: The characters might have been bad guys, too.

With this in mind you can argue that a person with a differend mindset or moral code could easily follow another path of "education"

This is what I did. Two of my characters I can see having taken slightly different paths while the other two probably would've continued with their regular growth while still being "evil"

Our Paladin will instead be an anti-Paladin while our rogue/ vivi alch will instead be rogue/ Assassin. I rebuilt character sheets accordingly.

The Swashbuckler and Sorcerer just kinda stay the same in my eyes


Tetujin wrote:

I'm a little confused on xp rewards for some of the dreamquests. Most of all the Vicount's Signet Ring. Should I give my party experience for defeating the three dance partners? I feel like they deserve way more than what they'll get for killing the spiders.

I've got the same problem for the other dreamquests with largely social components because I don't see any experience rewards listed.

Anyone else have this problem?

Any time an encounter is overcome, experience should be awarded. This doesn't necessarily need to be combat. I usually give social encounters less XP, but still give them some. So I'd probably give the vampire 2,400 XP, Ardvin 800, and the girl I would just go with none because it's part of an encounter.


TheGreatWot wrote:
Milestone XP for the win! No obsessive need to kill everything to soak up XP like some sort of murder-sponge, and most importantly, no math. I hate math like a fat lady hates bad analogies.

I'm in the same boat, but milestone XP for this specific book is hard because they constantly switch back and forth between part one and two, so it's hard to gauge when they should reach level 8. I switched the party over to XP gain for this book and I'll switch back once we're done with it. OR even just when we're done with the dreamquests


Good ideas, I'll incorporate the scholars more for sure. Thanks guys!


So... My party is dumb as f&+$. Like highest intelligence is 12 dumb. It just kinda worked out like that with the classes they chose (Paladin, Swashbuckler, Rogue [who's now multicalssing into vivi alch so he'll be bumping his up soon], and Sorcerer). How should I handle the knowledge checks for the dreamlands ritual? They will surely fail them 19/20 times, and I definitely don't want them to just feel like traveling is hopeless. I've thought about lowering the DC or changing how the research and ritual works. Any ideas?

Edit: I suppose I'd really just have to push them to use the two scholars on the boat with them, but that doesn't solve the problem of the 2/3 DC 25's to do the ritual itself (Our sorcerer has a +5 knowledge Arcana, he's not the brightest). Any tips for the ritual?


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Ekaj wrote:

Yeah I'm back I know. I'm confused about Event 7 in combination with Risi attacking. It seems the trigger for both event is the same, Melisenn learning of the PC's, but they don't really work together. Why does Risi not work with the cultists? Also, I assume when Risi performs her death attack, she goes for the instakill option (I kinda hate death effects entirely, no matter how low the DC, so I'm still thinking on what I wanna do on that) but the Cultists want the party alive to take them back for sacrifices. Both are sent by Melisenn, so she seems to be contradicting herself on what she wants to happen to the PCs.

Any advice on how to run this? I was thinking maybe replacing two of the cultists with Risi and just running it from there, but I'm not sure.

Edit: So I think what I'm gonna do is save Risi for a little later, if the PCs ever leave the Fort to rest and stuff, she'll be waiting then. Kind of like Melisenn getting desperate and sending her best out to take em out. So it'll be awhile on that.


Yeah I'm back I know. I'm confused about Event 7 in combination with Risi attacking. It seems the trigger for both event is the same, Melisenn learning of the PC's, but they don't really work together. Why does Risi not work with the cultists? Also, I assume when Risi performs her death attack, she goes for the instakill option (I kinda hate death effects entirely, no matter how low the DC, so I'm still thinking on what I wanna do on that) but the Cultists want the party alive to take them back for sacrifices. Both are sent by Melisenn, so she seems to be contradicting herself on what she wants to happen to the PCs.
Any advice on how to run this? I was thinking maybe replacing two of the cultists with Risi and just running it from there, but I'm not sure.


Shaun Hocking wrote:
Ekaj wrote:

So as I'm reading this, I'm trying to figure out a way that the party can use the aqueduct systems to get into Hailcorse and Iris Hill. How do I let them know about the aqueducts without outright telling them "this is how you do it"? As far as I can tell, the book doesn't really mention other than that the skum used them to get in.

I'm not sure if they'll go for the more aggressive approach with entering or this more stealthy method, but I wanna know for sure.
As my PCs were walking around town, I made sure to mention all the wells they passed. They thought something fishy was up with the wells because I kept mentioning them, but nothing ever came of it since they just got into places through the front doors. Oh well.

Good idea, I'll incorporate that


So as I'm reading this, I'm trying to figure out a way that the party can use the aqueduct systems to get into Hailcorse and Iris Hill. How do I let them know about the aqueducts without outright telling them "this is how you do it"? As far as I can tell, the book doesn't really mention other than that the skum used them to get in.
I'm not sure if they'll go for the more aggressive approach with entering or this more stealthy method, but I wanna know for sure.


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Ok thanks, I've always gotten Hit Dice and levels mixed up. I might rework it a little bit just because I don't want half of my players to not have any fun in the battle because they're running the whole time, and my party isn't exactly the smartest when it comes to retreating (They fought Debis for about an hour real time before even thinking of running to find the knights) , possibly give them another save after a few rounds at a penalty to overcome it. They do have a Paladin so he's for sure fine the whole fight and I'm not super worried about them winning, but I want em to have at least a little fun.


Now that I look even more into it, should the party even be affected by Frightful Presence? According to the rules for frightful presence, it only affects creatures who are a lower level than the creature. The Tatterman is level 3, as are the players. If that's the case, why is it even included?


Should the Tatterman's Fear Aura and Frightful Presence have durations on them? I've looked into both abilities and they usually say that the description should have a duration on them, or the duration is around 5d6. That's an average of 17-18 turns which just seems way too long for any encounter. My party stopped a few turns into the battle because one member had to leave and I hate missing people, so I've been looking into the Tatterman's abilities more. Two members failed their saving throws and are currently running (one of which is a psychic-blood sorcerer so he's kinda boned for this encounter). Should they be getting saves every turn? Or is there a duration?