Dubious Scholar's page

Chems are in a rough spot I feel though.

Bullets are dirt cheap. It's bookkeeping, but I mean, dirt. cheap. Often have good magazine sizes too. Like even the rocket launcher? 8 shots before Reload 1.

Batteries are the most expensive but they're refillable and they come in bigger sizes at higher levels. This means they quickly have very big functional magazines since you get double base capacity at 2 and quadruple at 4. Most weapons are only using 1-2 charges per shot so 40 charges will last a long time. The least bookkeeping as well - like two batteries at level 4 and you're set for life.

Chems? Chems are magazines you can't reload partially. They're much more expensive than projectiles but the only advantage you have over them is bigger tanks at higher levels. Smaller tanks than batteries at all tiers but level 4 and the pricing is wonky. So you get the bookkeeping of bullets and some of the cost of batteries. And while the level 4 ones have the best credits/shot I think in the long run you'll spend more on chems than batteries if you're playing from 4-10 the whole way since those two batteries I mentioned? You get a whopping 4 tanks of 40 chems each for that. Best case, 80 total shots of a weapon before chems cost you more.

Multi burst weapons - shoot two+ smaller explosions. Possibly requires the bursts to be touching? (so like, pick 4 adjacent 5' bursts)

Remove limiter - Mod to make nonlethal weapons lethal. Possibly doesn't need to take up a mod slot?

Soldier's level 12 Death Blossom feat interacts strangely with battery/chem weapons (i.e. most area weapons currently). It expends your entire magazine and requires a full magazine.

Because of how batteries and chems work, this means the cost of firing it in ammo is cheaper if you use the smallest capacity ones.

Now, the full magazine requirement basically means your previous turn needs to end with a reload for it regardless, so nothing stops you swapping in a fresh 10 credit battery... but it is odd.

It also interacts poorly with Overwatch of course. (because if you Overwatch you no longer have a full battery for your 3-action attack).

Truthfully, I'm not even sure it's particularly good as an attack anyways since giant emanations are really hard to use without hitting allies, and it otherwise only offers a -1 penalty to the saves against it. And you don't get to Primary Target. But still, the interaction with batteries/chems is odd.

So, I can't see anything preventing me from, at level 8, installing both Flaming and Frost on a weapon at the same time, since level 4 weapons have 2 upgrade slots.

At many levels, this means the damage potential for SF2 weapons is higher than PF2, where property runes are constrained by the tier of potency rune. (SF2 weapons start at 1 slot and gain 1 with each tier of striking rune equivalent upgrade)

The main clarification needed on Primary Target is if it consumes ammo. And how it interacts with grenades, since those are thrown with Area Attack and thus trigger all the Soldier goodies.

This might be better clarified in GM Core when it drops, but there don't really seem to be clear guidelines on when you can Fly in zero-G or not. Obviously, Sarcesians have explicit flight in vacuum, but otherwise it seems unclear and the rules don't have any distinction between wings or jetpacks or the various innate fly speeds like Contemplatives.

In a similar vein, Untethered's definition is circular - you're untethered when you have no way to move in an environment and then Untethered says you can only use move actions that say they work in your environment, but nothing actually seems to say "You're untethered if...". So if you're Untethered you're now stuck as Untethered (even if gravity comes on! After all, Stride doesn't explicitly say it can be used on land in gravity). But if you aren't Untethered nothing says you can't use your move actions so you're not Untethered?

Zero Cannon is definitely one of the easiest area weapons to not hit allies with - line templates are extremely flexible.

Having basically no feats worth taking at level 1 for Bombard feels really bad though.

Is it wrong to ask for a portable missile barrage? Just a full-automatic micro-missile launcher. I'm not actually sure it would even be mechanically different really from the machine gun already printed? But it's the imagery of it all (especially when used for auto-fire)

Attachments for guns like a bayonet, or a chainsaw. I want the gun from Gears of War.

I feel like this would be really useful for Soldier. Was surprised at there not being any way to integrate a melee option to a gun for Whirling Strike and such.

I'll note there are two mid-to-high level abilities that party members can use to help a sniper reload: Envoy has the Hustle feat to grant a quickened interact once per 10 minutes, and the Rhythm focus 6 spell Remix can do the same but be sustained to provide the extra reload every round.

I wouldn't be surprised by a gear solution to this (and projectile magazine limitations in general) in Tech Core.

There's also the cantrip that reloads a weapon with magic bullets for 1 action. (They only last for a round, but...)

The Recharge Weapon cantrip specifies "ammunition or charges", which leaves open the question of whether it can also reload chem-based weapons.

Zoken44 wrote:

would a repeatable feat that gives your solarian weapon an extra trait be broken?

Hell yeah!

The Solar Weapon as is - 1H 1D8 + 2 Traits - is already into Advanced Weapons.
And htat is before all the Attunement Stuff and what else the Solarian is doing with it.

Depends on the traits, since Two-handed d10 is weaker than a bastard sword.

I've been actually toying with a Grenade Envoy build. Ready Arms! feels like it works best with grenades- the fact that it wants you to constantly switch to a new weapon AND can work with area fire is so convenient!

I would absolutely love to play a supportive Envoy that draws a flash grenade, tosses it, makes your allies concealed to the enemy, and allows your ally to make a free strike- all for two actions. Your third action is free for striking, demoralizing to set up your teammates, etc.

Ooh, that's a nice trick.

Soldier, naturally, works well with grenades because the whole class is kind of built around area fire (and auto-fire). It's debatable whether you get a Primary Target strike with a grenade, but if your GM allows it that's pretty strong. Even without that, Bombard has nice benefits like Suppressed even on success (compared to Failure for other soldiers) and excluding allies from the explosion.

I've always found immunity to nonlethal odd in function to begin with.

Like, I'm punching a skeleton for 1d4+4 B, but it doesn't matter that I have +4 strength if my fist is technically nonlethal? It won't break the bones? That doesn't make any sense at all.

It seems like the intent, in a lot of cases, is to say "you can't knock this creature out via nonlethal damage", but because of how it's written it just means "nonlethal effects don't damage this at all".

Generally speaking, there should probably be a rule somewhere that says creatures immune to nonlethal damage treat it as lethal damage instead unless stated otherwise.

Although I suppose in the case of the Arc Emitter at least, it's not like there's an actual penalty for shooting it lethally since -2 to hit doesn't affect the DC. (Soldier's Primary Target aside, anyways)

Edit: And apparently misremembered undead using it. Still, it's always felt odd as a whole, because taking the -2 to hit to... what? You're already swinging the weapon as hard as you can, but suddenly it'll dent something it couldn't before?

An overkill mod or something would be nice, but I just kind of dislike the rule as a whole to begin with. Nonlethal feels like a drawback more than a benefit too often, since there's rarely a practical difference between the two, you can generally just ask the GM to apply dying rules anyways to let you stabilize after the fight instead of fussing with nonlethal attacks, etc. Heck, the fact that only the last hit to a creature matters at all is odd. (Sure, you lopped their arms off with a sword, but then you bonked their last 2 HP with your first so they're not bleeding out!)

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Hmm. Soldier's level 1 feat choices feel very lacking for Bombards. Almost literally useless, in fact.

Burst of Strength - You need a free hand to use Athletics. And also strength investment. You're already investing in dex and con, so...?
Quick Swap - Yes, pull out the melee weapon you have +0/+1 str for.
Ready Reload - All area weapons are Reload 1.
Pin Down - Bulwark automatically suppresses any enemy that gets a success, so this does nothing
Whirling Swipe - Again, low str. That said, this does let you melee Area Fire, but even then it feels like in most cases you're better off just shooting your gun? The one edge case there is the bonus DC on Backswing/Sweep weapons (not sure it beats Primary Target damage though... unless, specifically, you're using a Fangblade and Boost it first before choosing not to Primary Target so the boost applies on the reflex save... and even then I don't know if this is better than Shot on the Run at 2 or something instead)

Ready reload seems a solid option. I was seeing a bunch of area weapons that were 2 action reloads. Not huge but still lets you blast off and then if you run dry reload and be ready to start blasting again next round.

The only reload 2 weapons are the machine guns, which are automatic, not area. (As written, only half of Bombard works for automatic weapons - ignoring allies in the area is limited to area weapons as written. Which may not be intended)

Chem tanks don't have linear scaling on their cost/capacity. The level 4 ones are by far the most efficient. Compare to batteries having straight 1 charge/credit costs.

Singing Coil being Expend 5 feels excessively high? Depending on your interpretation of Primary Target a Soldier could empty their entire battery at level 1 in a single attack. Seems like it should be 2 the same as other area weapons.

Hmm. Soldier's level 1 feat choices feel very lacking for Bombards. Almost literally useless, in fact.

Burst of Strength - You need a free hand to use Athletics. And also strength investment. You're already investing in dex and con, so...?
Quick Swap - Yes, pull out the melee weapon you have +0/+1 str for.
Ready Reload - All area weapons are Reload 1.
Pin Down - Bulwark automatically suppresses any enemy that gets a success, so this does nothing
Whirling Swipe - Again, low str. That said, this does let you melee Area Fire, but even then it feels like in most cases you're better off just shooting your gun? The one edge case there is the bonus DC on Backswing/Sweep weapons (not sure it beats Primary Target damage though... unless, specifically, you're using a Fangblade and Boost it first before choosing not to Primary Target so the boost applies on the reflex save... and even then I don't know if this is better than Shot on the Run at 2 or something instead)

As written - Armor Storm soldiers can't use Rocket Jump because the former says they're never in the area of a ranged attack and the latter requires them to aim so they are.

Mystic's Network Shield doesn't say they can't reduce damage by more than they have left in their Vitality Network. If they're running on empty it's basically free massive damage reduction that way?

The 2h trait only going up to d10 is pretty bad though, since PF2 Bastard Sword is 1d8 with Two-Handed d12 as its only trait. (The comparable Skyfire Sword for SF2 is d10, but also Deadly d8, so...)

Your MAP increases, but the save DC is not affected. Soldier gets to cheat a lot at MAP really, when you look at things like Primary Target and the various "full auto even more" abilities they have.

Soldier:

Offensive Defense - Doesn't exclude the character using this from the burst.

On another battery note, most energy weapons use two charges per shot. With a spare battery priced at 10cr, that means each shot costs 2cr, 20x as much as a projectile round. They can be recharged, but you have to recharge it 20 times to get the cost per shot down to what it is for projectile weapons, and by that time you very well may have upgraded to a higher-capacity weapon. In addition, 10cr is a lot for a 1st level character trying to buy starting gear--approximately 7% of their starting credits for 5 extra shots.

All of this is to say, batteries are too expensive. My errata suggestion is changing them to ~2cr for a replacement battery.

I'd say you need to half the cost per shot, considering you'll sell batteries for better ones eventually. Since unlike bullets they're not actually consumed.

On a related note though - I'm noting on Nethys that weapons using chems for ammo list magazines of 10, while chem tanks are in increments of 8 per tier? So that doesn't match up right. (It's also confusing for higher tier weapons to have the same magazine entry even though the rules for batteries/tanks indicate you'd actually have larger capacity if you use a level-appropriate one)

With the SF2 Mystic having Heightened +1 on Shadow Snap - can Witch's Malicious Shadow be buffed to also be Heightened +1?

Shadow Snap focus spell - If I'm reading this right, I can cast and sustain it one turn, and have it Attack and Stalk.

And then on future turns it can Attack Attack Stalk for 3 actions? It says "each time you Sustain" and you can sustain multiple times a turn, so...

Feels like it should probably have some restriction because otherwise this is kind of incredible damage per action, especially as Stalk presumably ignores MAP.

Actually, I also note that it doesn't use a reaction for Stalk either, which I'm not sure is intended? Also raises a question of what happens if you Stalk multiple times (probably doesn't work functionally, but could use clarification)

This kind of seems nuts to me, considering the damage is 1d10/rank on a hit. The Stalk is conditional, but... it's at range and they basically can't avoid triggering it unless they're doing nothing at all, so...

Edit: Actually, isn't Heightened (+1) significantly stronger than normal for this kind of effect? Spiritual Armament is Heightened (+2). (Although if you change this, I'd suggest reworking the spell to use d6 for damage so it can stay +1 heightening - damaging focus spells having +2 is really awkward because unlike normal spells you can't swap them out on the off-ranks easily to keep up with damage)

War of Immortals wrote:

As the war god died, his power rained through the many planes of creation, sparking conflict and instilling divine energy in those previously without it. Whether you were directly touched by this power, claimed it from an ancient being or artifact, or whether it awoke something long dormant in your lineage, a spark of the divine now blazes within your soul, granting you abilities, sacred weapons, and divine signifiers that reach into the realm previously reserved for gods and legends.

It's a bit vague, but "claimed it from an ancient being or artifact" and "awoke something long dormant in your lineage" certainly suggests that Exemplars can exist outside the context of the Godsrain if a mortal were to obtain a divine spark in some other way.

Yeah. One of the easier justifications imo is a versatile heritage like Nephilim that's already connected to the divine. Demigods as the descendants of actual gods (and similar - Hungerseed's oni heritage is totally valid too imo, considering Golarion's oni are corrupted kami) is a standard of folklore.

I think, as is...

Water, Fire, and Wood all have a lot of appealing options across the board.

Metal and Earth feel very lackluster at low levels. Metal armor's crit-shattering is frankly a bad idea. A big part of the issue for both elements is having bad level 4 impulses, though Metal feels worse off than Earth (with its level 1 options being the worst armor, two damage impulses, and then the questionable toolmaking impulse, and having less appealing 6/8 impulses than earth too).

Air feels like it needs a little help too (the level 1 impulse spread is unappealing, but boomerang+four winds is at least a useful pair to take, it's just... that's the only pair you'd take?). Level 4 is only really Lightning Dash, but at 6+ it opens up. So overall it's a bit ahead of Earth (though... Earth does have the option of a strength build going full kinetic melee under heavy armor, even if their impulses are less appealing).

Going 2+ elements cleans up a lot of the issues for the less appealing elements... as long as you don't try to include Metal, since it's the most lacking in early utility options.

Instead of solving the issue with expensive magic ammo, what if there was just different kinds of mundane ammo? Using starfinder examples but you can probably find bow equivalents, but have rubber bullets or a stun setting which deals much less damage but makes the opponent off guard on a hit. High powered armor piercing rounds that can go though cover but need bracing to fire accurately. Tracer rounds that make your next shot more accurate, but also helps shots against you. Make it an action to swap between the ammos, and you have the basis of a very interesting ranged combat system. Melee builds need to either attack or do an effect but are fairly safe doing them, while ranged builds can do both at the same time at the cost of risky drawbacks.

It honestly feels strange that alchemical ammo even needs activated. Feels like it should be more like bombs where striking is the activation.

For activated ammo, there should just be a rule that says you can activate ammo as part of an action spent to reload it. The biggest issue with it is that it's absolutely useless on anything with reload 1 because of the action economy losses.

A second issue, I guess, is that it overwrites property runes, but that's a smaller issue by comparison.

In terms of base damage... ranged weapons are basically comparable to finesse weapons in melee (class-specific damage boosts aside). The noticeable gap is with strength weapons (or Thief). That +4 flat damage is basically the equivalent of a striking rune (for anything less than d10 weapons), it's a significant power gap.

Yeah. Not being able to use special attacks with mythic force just feels wrong. And then for spells you can't use metamagic (because mythic spells are themselves a metamagic basically) and you have to spend an extra action entirely (which... oof, since that's a lot more expensive than a mythic strike is, blocks 3-action spells, and also causes grief for kineticists under the common "fix" of using mythic spells for impulses, since it wrecks their economy to not have the action to channel after a 2-action overflow, etc)

It almost feels like it would be better if it was just a free action, trigger: you make a strike/cast a spell/impulse/etc, and you spend the point to use mythic proficiency.

I wish you guys would have explained how Titan's Breaker's Transcendent worked as a Exemplar Ikon, it is far more confusing then Noble Branch. It feels off as neither my DM or me can fully understand it. If it is just a single weapon die then it is pretty nearly weak...

As far as I can tell, it's just Vicious Swing basically, yes. That said, it does kind of need clarification because as written it's still unclear.

Is 4+1 die instead of 2/die, and does not scale with weapon dice count? Or does it mean 4 per weapon die plus an extra die? Or does it mean 4 and a weapon die per weapon die (which would be legitimately insane at the higher tiers, so I'm sure it's not this one) Of course, the problem is that the first option (where it doesn't scale at all with dice) effectively doesn't increase your flat damage at all because of runes, but also is what you're probably left with if it's not the third.

Is it perhaps supposed to just be "increase by" instead of "increase to"? That would make more sense and give it a decent power bump over just Vicious Swing (at level 4, that would be a base of 2d12+8, and then increase to 3d12+12 for the one swing, assuming +4 damage from strength)

Exemplar, Horn of Plenty.

This technically isn't anything broken. But I think that the transcend should allow you to still use the item on yourself, in order to move your spark while consuming a potion/elixir with the action compression.

The issue that comes up here is that while it saves an action with it's immanence effect, because you then need to spend an action to transfer your spark to something else afterwards you don't actually benefit from the immanence unless you're going to use it multiple times in a round (i.e. two+ items on self, self+transcend, etc). (At least, without an ikon feat granting it additional Transcend options)

Of course, it allows you to spend two actions to consume two items and give the effects of one to an ally and such still, but it feels like a minor trap that you have to invest further or use multiple items in a turn to actually gain benefit from the immanence at all?

Feels like Nantambu is the obvious answer. From what little I played of Strength of Thousands, it seemed like the best possible version of a progressive college town. Small enough to have a strong sense of community and decent social safety net, fairly cosmopolitan from the students coming from all over. Maagambya is also a distinctly altruistic organization that does not reach for violence first and actively supports Nantambu. Not to mention the school's founder and patron is still kicking around with enough juice to curb the worst urges of Baba Yaga and the cleverness to know how to do so without overt threats.

I'd be willing to overcome my aversion to temperatures above 60 degrees to live there.

Yeah, having Old Mage Jatembe keeping a quiet eye on the place is a big plus. But the Magaambya alone is a major draw, both appealing to me as a nerd and for the practical answer of all the spellcasters to solve problems.

Your eidolon's spell DC explicitly copies your own, so if they do pick up spells (Fey eidolons say hi) they're not bad at them.

Errenor wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I think most NPCs should have a passing familiarity with magic, but an understanding of how a specific class works should be exceedingly rare. Like "understanding if you stop the Summoner, you stop the Eidolon" should be like "understanding that the Witch's familiar is the source of your curse."

Ehm... but "understanding that the Witch's familiar is the source of your curse" is completely obvious without any magic knowledge. The moment it growls and you immediately feel bad, you want to swat it. Do you want summoner-eidolon thing to be this obvious?

I mean, the Summoner literally has a class feature to put a glowing mark on both the Summoner and the Eidolon.

The class itself wants it to be obvious.

If anything it's more obvious than Witch, because a familiar can look an awful lot like an ordinary creature or a less dangerous familiar, such as a Wizard's familiar. Those are historically common in Golarian and arcane magic is relatively well known.

It'd be pretty hard for common folk to tell what kind of familiar this is at a glance. Someone with training at identifying magic users probably can, but a more ordinary person is going to see a cat and might realize its a familiar, but that's about it.

Literally anyone can see a big glowing symbol on two entities and figure out that they're connected somehow from that.

It's obvious there's a connection and you're working together. But knowing how it works is not, and people saying "of course intelligent enemies go straight for the summoner" are wrong. Most NPCs do not, in fact, know how it works offhand.

Of course, the irony to this whole discussion is that at higher levels the summoner probably isn't any easier to kill than the eidolon anyways - it's pretty easy to AC cap at 5 and especially at 10, but that's very much a mechanics and not flavor, since most summoners are likely at most in light armor (chain shirts ftw).

The other thing with the who to target is that if someone doesn't know what a summoner is... the eidolon may very well seem like the greater threat, since a lot of what a summoner is doing may be non-obvious without making knowledge checks.

Boost eidolon you can tell they're doing something... but knowing what is less likely. If they're flinging cantrips... well, yeah - obvious mage, but it's not necessarily the kind of big flashy magic, and mages come in all calibers.

Meanwhile, you have a dragon in the way. A literal dragon. Which is probably registering as more of a threat than a fighter would. (A lot of the eidolon types will register this way I think)

This of course is subjective and all.

In practice? Enemies trying to bypass my eidolon to make a beeline for the summoner... are going to be very disappointed when I raise that steel shield I'm always forgetting about and suddenly have higher AC than my eidolon. Who is now flanking them.

Trip.H wrote:

Holy crap, the arrogant irony of that statement is an invigorating slap to the face, that's for sure.

It wasn't irony. But I agree it wasn't nice.

Unfortunately, if we can't agree on a basic concept such as the relationship between the size of your HP pool and the number of attacks you can take before dropping, the conversation is doomed to fail.

The number of attacks it takes to kill you looks more like a step function of your HP than a line. That's the issue with trying to say 10% HP = 10% more attacks. You never go down part of an attack, after all, so there's more fuzzy thresholds depending on what's hitting you where your survivability jumps a lot, then it goes up very slowly, etc.

I would say they invert the relationship of an animal companion. A Druid is primarily contributing to combat via their spell slots, with the companion providing support/supplemental damage. A Summoner is primarily contributing via their eidolon's strikes, with the summoner's magic providing support/supplemental damage.

Summoners are a martial class dressed up as spellcasters. (Their spells are absolutely relevant, you just need to ration them out. But opening a fight with a Fireball before switching to strikes to clean up, or throwing a heightened Heroism on the eidolon before it charges in can be very effective)

Speaking of guns (or well, reload weapons).

I had a player show up wanting to build a crossbow wielding exemplar, only for us to realize that there are only two weapon ikons that work on ranged weapons, one of which is designed for AoE use and the other which is incompatible with reload weapons. Felt kinda bad (I also don't super love how you can min-max starshot by playing a small or tiny race but that's another topic).

Would love for more consideration to be given to 'bad' or weird weapon choices when designing options like these! More options that play friendly with characters using reload weapons or other gimmick mechanics. They're already downsides by design, so some accommodations so players don't feel even more restricted would be nice.

Extends to other classes too, like... a crossbow/gun wielding magus or whatever feels thematically cool but the way reload interacts with their action economy is extra crippling.

The Deft epithet goes a long way towards making reload weapons work, and I think exemplar at 3+ becomes quite good at using them, but definitely an issue without it.

The Exemplar looks interesting. I wonder how good it is in play. Looks pretty powerful.

It's pretty good, yeah. A lot of choices to make for level 1 with ikon selection. A few ikons are very deadly (Gleaming Blade's transcendence in particular is very strong), but I'd say the weapon ikons are mostly balanced, with some of them trading raw damage for other utility. Worn/body ikons are a bit more of a mixed bag, but lots of interesting and useful options.

The core mechanic of switching between modes plays very well, and also somewhat restrains the power of weapon ikons since you'd burn an extra action to use their transcendence every round (you can benefit from their passive damage every turn easily, but +2/die is the baseline and that's basically in line with other class damage boosts).

I do love that it can be built for basically any weapon style effectively. A sword and board build can be extremely durable, and it can even use reload weapons well after level 3 (Deft epithet gives a free reload on transcend to smooth out action economy. It also gives a free weapon draw... but Shadow Sheathe mostly solves that anyways for throwing weapons)

Centaur Weapon Familiarity should allow them to use the Jousting trait, even though they're technically not mounted. Feels odd that it grants proficiency in the Lance but they can't actually benefit from the weapon's main gimmick as written.

Did they fix Dual-Form Weapon? Two actions to change modes is brutal, especially when combination weapons exist and are one action to change.

Also, as printed, you can never put runes on the second form. "Any runes on your weapon innovation don't affect the second weapon configuration." Except, being a single item it can only have one set of runes anyways, so... ooops? (Also another place it compares unfavorable to combination weapons, which get to share one set of runes for both modes. Alternatively, bayonets/stocks take separate runes... but are wielded simultaneously and need zero actions to change modes, so...)

I really want to like that feat, but it's so bad as printed currently.

Often, the third ikon for main class exemplar is either going to be situational or something long-lasting. As an example, Mirrored Aegis gives a buff for a minute on Transcend, so you can easily start the fight with Aegis active, transcend it, and then start alternating weapon and something else the rest of the fight.

Alternatively, something like Scar of the Survivor you may only activate if you expect to take damage, the Horn of Plenty to heal allies/self, etc.

Dubious Scholar wrote:

This is a bit more of a stretch, but... weapons with finesse+maneuver traits should be allowed to use dexterity on the roll.

Finesse weapons already pay a price in damage output to let dex be used for accuracy, but maneuvers are strength based. It seems like the pairing of finesse+trip is kind of at odds with itself as a result.

Just make it a Rune, there done. You pay for a Rune slot to do special things with DEX. Super simple, Super easy. We already know STR for damage is king, so letting a Whip trip with DeX at the cost of a RUNE Slot woudl not be that bad, it onyl does a D4.

With the Dice being reduced by 1 Dice on average for Finesse, is it really something to worry about?

Honestly, yeah, that's probably a better solution for it.

Dubious Scholar wrote:

This is a bit more of a stretch, but... weapons with finesse+maneuver traits should be allowed to use dexterity on the roll.

Finesse weapons already pay a price in damage output to let dex be used for accuracy, but maneuvers are strength based. It seems like the pairing of finesse+trip is kind of at odds with itself as a result.

DEX is already a very good ability score. It doesn't need to be able to do yet another thing. If you want to be good at those, that's a reason to invest in some STR.

Dex is very good as an ability score, sure. It contributes to half your defenses, ranged accuracy, and multiple useful skills. But... there's ways for strength to substitute for dex on both AC and reflex saves - the big gap in combat is in ranged attacks alone, and there's definitely ways around that (Spirit Warrior is especially good at it). If anything, str is better than dex in the context of martial classes during combat at lower levels (I'd also give str a slight edge on skills because athletics is easier to apply to enemies in most cases)

I suppose also this could arguably fall under the GM discretion on using alternate stats for skills anyways - is tripping someone with a whip really more based on strength than dexterity in getting it to tangle their foot up at the wrong moment?

I don't really expect anything to happen on this, it's just something that feels like it could be better? You have weapons that are basically tagged for use by dex builds with a trait that pushes you towards str instead.

This is a bit more of a stretch, but... weapons with finesse+maneuver traits should be allowed to use dexterity on the roll.

Finesse weapons already pay a price in damage output to let dex be used for accuracy, but maneuvers are strength based. It seems like the pairing of finesse+trip is kind of at odds with itself as a result.

arcady wrote:

More Thaumaturge Implements. Thaumaturge is the only Cha based non-vancian class in the game. So I'd like to see more from it. I'd like to see some way for a non-weapon Thaum to be able to use a shortbow at proficiency.

Does a 1+ handed weapon count as a one-handed weapon? I'm pretty sure they're their own distinct category, so it's not an eligible choice for a weapon implement.

It probably doesn't break anything if you allow a thaumaturge to use a bow for exploit vulnerability but disallow Implements Empowerment. The bow is definitely a two handed weapon while being fired, which shuts of Implement's empowerment, but on the other hand since you're using a 2-handed weapon you shouldn't need the "hand rebate" anyway.

You'll run into issues with getting implements out to use still... though there is a case that 1+ weapons are valid for weapon implement. (It's very much a ask your GM situation, but PC states that 1+ weapons are treated as 1 handed for purposes of improvements, and it's not really clear if choosing them as an implement qualifies)

Class: Exemplar

(Possible)Issue: Energized Spark feat

The feat Energized Spark notably allows all of the energy damage types except for force and acid. While force is possibly more understandable since basically nothing resists it, the lack of acid as an option seems bizarre and possibly like something to be fixed.

To be honest, I'm not actually sure Force would be a good choice even if you could take it because Spirit is already such a good damage type. And the main thing it doesn't work on are constructs, which use Hardness, so any other damage type is equally good. May as well pick something you might hit a weakness with.

Totally agree about Acid though. No reason not to have that be an option.

The traditions are canonically an artificial construct to begin with. They're how the people of Golarion have categorized magic. But the lines aren't really there, and especially skilled casters are perfectly capable of casting "occult" magic as a primal caster or vice versa (it's even one of the paths of study at the Magaambya, on account of Old Mage Jatembe's teachings)

Well, the idea I suppose is to keep having a bunch of spell like effects on runes, just not burst damage. Or at least, less of it? I dunno. I'm throwing it out partly for discussion because it seems to be at the core of the issue - the martial chassis and feats and such that assume a martial playstyle, but the numbers lean more like a pseudo-caster with how you do damage best and such.

It seems hard to balance the class so that both striking and runes are good ways to do damage I guess, and I feel it may be best to step back and pick one or the other. Either less direct burst damage from runes, or give up martial weapon proficiency and go all-in on runes as your damage source? I dunno.

Right now, the class seems to be fighting itself. It has a martial chassis for proficiencies, but no damage bonus for its strikes. All the math seems to line up that spamming damage runes is better DPR right now in melee instead.

I'm wondering if the solution is to just not have direct burst damage on runes. Instead of having the fire rune explode for right-now damage, have it light them on fire. (Although this is probably nastier, given the passive fire weakness it gives? But that's fun too!). Have more runes that can be either ongoing buffs/debuffs or be invoked for a right-now support effect instead. The passive "move or be zapped" of the electric rune is more interesting to me than invoking for burst damage on it, etc.

And of course, give the class some kind of bonus to their damage output. I'm tempted to say they should get bonus damage on strikes based on the number of runes on whatever they're striking with. I'd love for this to count property/fundamental runes too, I'm just not sure how to scale the numbers cleanly.