DragoonSpirits86's page

Organized Play Member. 30 posts (36 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 7 Organized Play characters. 2 aliases.


Lantern Lodge

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A little bit of a thread necro, but I totally missed this thread the first time it went by, want to note that this is very much something I'm hoping, even expecting, to see this book tackle.

I'll also throw in my thought that while there may be plenty of GM's and games not wanting to bring in the new Uncommon classes and the new firearms, I think very few are likely to reject new crossbows. Not just 1 new fancy martial crossbow, but several at various tiers...

And this isn't even ONLY from a relative power standpoint, though I think the general consensus is that ALL of the current crossbows are at best weak and at worst an active handicap for the sake of narrative concept, its also about how boring they feel. When you take a glance down the weapon page on Nethys, do you know how many weapons have ZERO traits? Have a completely blank entry? 4, 3 of them crossbows, and 1 being shield bash. From my own personal experience GM'ing I've had players excited to build a character, wanting to use these weapons(with little to no knowledge nor concern for their mechanical pros/cons) just look at the table and ask me if it was an error...comments like "No traits...nothing? All these neat things all these other weapons get, and crossbows have...nothing? Thats boring"

Give them some love moving forward please....

Lantern Lodge

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I would agree to that sentiment, my response to the survey was that I didn't mind a limited amount of class features for the higher proficiency, but that the Gunslinger seemed shortchanged even by fighter standards...but am i missing something? While the various proficiencies do scale a little differently there is some obvious equity and give/take there, the obvious analogues for non-proficiency based features are...
Fighter 1- AoO ,shield block GS 1- Initial deed
3- Bravery 3- Stubborn
9- flexibility 9- advanced deed
15-imp flexibility 15- greater deed

And that matches up with Papers' assertions, arguments on the Bravery/Stubborn comparison aside I agree with him that the ways right now don't feel like a even trade off there, especially when in my opinion the weakest deeds are the initial ones compared to one of the best martial reactions in the game - you know, that reaction that many other martials give up 6th lvl class feats for...

As for the other two features,for fighters it is basically an extra 8th and 14th level class feat but even BETTER due to the flexibility in shifting them around based on in game knowledge. This implies that at the VERY LEAST the advanced and greater deeds should be at least as powerful as an extra 8th and 14th lvl gunslinger feat...and I cant say with confidence that is currently the case, possibly ghost shot aside, which is a problem.

Lantern Lodge

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Was really liking this build...
Human, Gunslinger(Way of the Sniper), Hunter

Maxing Craft[alchemical crafting, Bless toxin], Stealth[swift sneak, foil senses, legendary sneak], Medicine[battle medicine, ward medic], trained survival, acrobatics, Deception

selecting..
1-Firearm Ace
2-Poisoner dedication
4-Running reload
6-Expert poisoner
8-Shooters Aim
10-Called Shot
12-Shooters Camoflauge
14-Pinpoint poisoner
16-Fatal bullet
18-Piercing critical
20-Perfect readiness

Take an Arquebus, but I feel a Crossbow would work just as well assuming final pass gives them a Crossbow Ace equivalent they didnt feel needed playtested.

Takes full advantage of the main benefits of Way of the Sniper in a way that fighter and ranger really cant emulate right now and seems fairly damage competitive while allowing for some interesting turn by turn tactical decisions.

Lantern Lodge

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Not trying to be combative here, but the OP is pretty strong in his delivery and wording, and the OP hit so many topics relevant to me in a near opposite way I felt like I should respond with my own thoughts.

I originally had very little interest, and not a small amount of trepidation, with Secrets of magic as for me personally and my play group the magus and the summoner in particular were very disliked classes in terms of mechanics/design and negative impact at a table for a myriad of reasons not worth really delving into here(Though I am interested to hear if we were unique in this, as my understanding was that fairly universally summoner was pretty much THE singular class GM's didn't allow in home games and hated to see at a PFS table). I say this partly to refute the threads title, as a significant re-design of these two classes was NOT what we expected, but very much happy to see. In a way, seeing a simple copy/paste of these classes between editions would be a disservice to the design possibilities the new edition could give them and I am very happy to see this playtest.

I feel the unique new spell progression is a super interesting and honestly fairly elegant design direction. It may be just right, may need augmented with some king of cleric-esque font, maybe 2/2/2 or 3/3 works out better, but the DIRECTION of this spellcasting progression I love as a way to simulate focused or specialized limited casting.

Isn't saying these playtest versions are 'nothing like' their 1E versions a bit beside the point and odd? Of course these aren't mechanicaly alike, just the same as how the other core classes aren't mechanically alike to their 1E selves, its a new edition built from the ground up on a new framework...and is the point of the test not to compare 1E magi/summoners to 2E magi/summoners but instead to see how these new versions interact with the new 2E system and other 2E classes.

As to the OP's specific points..
1. Your first point is something the playtest magus can in fact do. Magi Cantrips exist, a magus can spellstrike using a spell of his highest known level EVERY SINGLE ROUND all day every day. Not that I agree with the idea that he should- A single, optimal 3 action routine that is always the correct choice regardless of the contexts of individual encounters is tactically boring and flat- in my opinion a bad design. The second assertion is trickier. As presented, a critical weapon strike DOES increase the result of the spell by 1 degree of success, which seems perfectly fine to me. The idea that magus should be critting more often than other classes, or that weapon/spell criticals were key to the theme of the class now or even in 1E I disagree with - the idea that 1E magus was a class Min/Max'd around abusing the mechanic of keened 15-20 weapon critical threat ranges to nova traited/free meta-magic enhanced shocking grasps and arcane marks is not something I would hope people would like to see moved forward. And even if you did, the suggestion that this design would be simple to balance in the frame work of 2E is neglecting to note that critical hit determination works nothing alike in the 2 systems on top of all the other possible concerns. Not liking the direction is one thing, but to wave away this design itteration as 'over-thinking' a 'simple' problem is frankly a little dismissivly rude.

2. You say you want a summoner which is a specialized class that uses a summoned creature....I see the eidolon feature and numerous 'evolution' tagged feats which alter and improve it which seems to fit that bill. I do not see a basis to your argument that the eidolon(a creature with its own statline which grows with you, and a statblock which you seem to suggest it is not), in order to fufill the theme or narrative purpose of the summoner class is required to be
*In any way related to the Animal companion feature - in fact, the less like a familiar or AC the eidolon is, the more specialized it would be to summoner, wouldn't it?
*have a seprate hit point pool
*Independent actions
This itteration is to me actually a very neat way to enhance the thematic link between the the eidolon and summoner while also elegantly dodging some of the more problematic issues with 'pet' classes ie unbalancingly high amounts of 'free' party hit points, avoiding the use of the minion trait while still reigning in the inherent power of multiple actors in a game tightly bound to action economy, providing interesting and class unique tactical movement and positioning concerns and options, keeping the flow of play/real world table time per player in check and others.

All in all my message would be I hope the playtest feedback will show that some of us at least like what we see here -the biggest step into new, unique, and interesting solutions to some complex problems we've seen yet this edition. Please hold your course allowing the themes, narrative space, and character concepts of previous classes to still flourish in 2E, while designing the best game you can now without feeling a need to keep the sacred cows of a previous game alive. Hopefully kinks are worked out, numbers are kiggled, major issues are addressed and we all get something better for having gone through this playtest.

Lantern Lodge

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While I get your point in terms of theme and consistency of design when considering your own homebrew items, mechanically I dont understand your statement of 'slots' being more relevant in PF2e. Item slots as a rules term dont exist anymore as I understand it and the only limit is youre investment limit? If a character wants to wear 10 different magical cloaks, while he may 'look' silly, he can.

Lantern Lodge

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Gaterie wrote:
SuperSheep wrote:
One of the very real problems is that people are understandably reading in 1e rules into the 2e playtest. In this case there isn't anything that mentions additive logic for item levels or rarity so it simply doesn't work that way.

The other problem is the rules don't make a lot of sense to begin with.

If I create a level 9 character, the wbl give me a level 8 item. I can take a +2 sword, or a +2 ghost touch wounding silver sword (of master-quality) (replace silver with mithral or adamantium if I can get an uncommon material): both are level 8. Why would I choose the former?

** spoiler omitted **

Well, players wouldnt because they cant. And this kind of goes to what was being said about reading in PF1 rules into PF2. In PF1 enchantments were more or less 'hard baked' into the items which they enchanted. In PF2 this seems to be explicitly NOT the case. While the treasure by level seems to make specific exceptions for potency already included in armor/weapons, but in general runes are seperate(though transferable) items in their own right. So in your example, a +2 ghost touch wounding silver sword isn't a level 8 item. Its actually 4 different items; Its a Expert quality silver sword(Item lvl2) + a ghost touch property rune(Item lvl 4) + a wounding property rune(item lvl 6) + a +2 weapon potency rune(Item lvl 8).

Lantern Lodge

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Far as I can tell lycanthropes haven't changed all that much, and there are few limitations to the mixes you can have.

There are only 3 limiting factors that I see:
1. The base creature must have the humanoid type(possibly in addition to any other types)
2. The base animal characteristics applied must be from an animal[as in creature type animal] within 1 size catagory of the base humanoid. So for example, no elven foxwomen[foxes are tiny, elves are medium] but you can have gnomish foxwomen, or elvish wolf-women, yadda yadda re-skin to your liking.
3. Either the base creature(for afflicted) or 1 of the parents(for naturals) must be able to be affected by curses, as this is how lycanthropy is spread....I dont know of any entire race immune to curse effects, but if there is one, it couldnt be a lycanthrope.

But there ya go, so mix and match to your hearts content.