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As long as people optimize their characters, there will be a certain amount of "meta" mindset for the system mechanics payoff. Realistically, there needs to be at least some level of optimization in most TTRPGs because otherwise you end up with no real differentiation between characters; which can be either abused (the GM plays favorites) or boring (everyone can do anything).

As far as eldritch trickster rogue goes, it makes a decent chassis. It is definitely better in the skirmisher role than a [sorcerer or wizard]/arcane trickster with the higher BAB and added hp. However (optimizing), a dip in another class such as brawler (snakebite striker for an extra +1d6 sneak attack), ranger (Favored Enemy plus being able to use wands of cure light wounds, wands of barkskin, etc. without UMD checks), or swashbuckler (panache and some other bonuses) to regain proficiency in light armor, as well as taking Arcane Armor Training* to boost AC without suffering from arcane spell failure, will usually work better than single classing.

*- with Quicken Spell not being viable until late as a 6-level caster, there is less competition for swift actions when casting


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Regarding dual-classed summoner (theory-cafting): druid (Wild Order) + summoner (divine casting?) dual class might have some synergies with the summoner tandem feats for action economy and Magical Understudy/Magical Adept/Magical Master to allow the eidolon to cast healing spells while the character is in combat form. Possibly taking multiclass archetype feats in barbarian, fighter, or monk to boost combat a bit.

It's probably not going to outshine a tricked out martial/martial (although the mobility and other options of some of the battle forms can be pretty nice), but it helps fix some shortcomings with druid (can't cast in battle form) and summoner (limited spell slots).

Regarding individual vs. group optimization: PF2 system mechanics make it really hard for individual characters to perform outside of a fairly narrow range of effectiveness. There are a few cases where some "build" choices are noticeably superior, but not to the point where making the "most optimal" choice is a "must have." Instead, because of the way PF2's action economy and MAP work, most of the boosts to effectiveness are realized by tactics and teamwork during play to help other characters in the party rather than yourself.


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Theory-crafting: druid (Wild Order) + summoner (divine casting?) dual class might have some synergies with the summoner tandem feats for action economy and Magical Understudy/Magical Adept/Magical Master to allow the eidolon to cast healing spells while the character is in combat form. Possibly taking multiclass archetype feats in barbarian, fighter, or monk to boost combat a bit.


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Dragonchess Player wrote:
For a gnome, especially if you go with sorcerer for the Ruler, a summoner with a beast (owlbear? <grin>) eidolon might give a "shaman-like" feel. Possibly adding the multiclass Witch Dedication; or maybe Wellspring Magic for a stronger tie to the fey/First World (or even both, if you use a general feat on Adopted Ancestry [Human] and your 9th level ancestry feat on Multitalented [Witch Dedication]).

Inspiration struck. A possible progression for a gnome summoner, emphasizing spells more than the eidolon (skills, skill feats, and spells selected to taste; probably focused on Cha and Int):

Spoiler:

Gnome/Fey-Touched, Borderlands Pioneer, Summoner (Wellspring Mage)
Brutal Beast eidolon (claws, beak [jaws])
1st- Animal Accomplice (owl?); Train Animal; Advanced Weaponry (Claws/grapple)
2nd- Wellspring Mage Dedication
3rd- Fleet
4th- Lifelink Surge
5th- Energized Font
6th- Wellspring Control
7th- Adopted Ancestry (Human)
8th- Hulking Size
9th- Multitalented (Witch Dedication*)
10th- Basic Witch Spellcasting
11th- Toughness
12th- Link Focus
13th- Vivacious Conduit
14th- Expert Witch Spellcasting
15th- Incredible Initiative
16th- Patron's Breadth
17th- Homeward Bound
18th- Link Wellspring
19th- Canny Acumen (Reflex)
20th- Legendary Summoner

*- instead of a second familiar, gain Enhanced Familiar; patron as desired (Wild may be the obvious choice, but one of the patrons granting Occult spells might be more effective/interesting)


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Dragonchess Player wrote:
An android inventor might be appropriate for a Numerian hook, but a kobold ranger (possibly with the Trapsmith Dedication) could have more chances to shine and tie in with Erastil.

Or the Snarecrafter Dedication for a less "tech" feel.


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Perpdepog wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
Note that elixirs of life and healing potions do not have the positive trait, so they should be OK.

Uh, healing potions do have the Positive trait?

From Archives of Nethys wrote:

Healing Potion

Item 1+
ConsumableHealingMagicalNecromancyPositivePotion
Source Core Rulebook pg. 563 3.0
Usage held in 1 hand; Bulk L
Activate Interact
A healing potion is a vial of a ruby-red liquid that imparts a tingling sensation as the drinker's wounds heal rapidly. When you drink a healing potion, you regain the listed number of Hit Points.

Was this errata'd from the first printing of the Core Rulebook? I was going off my hardcopy and PDF, which only list the Consumable, Healing, Magical, Necromancy, and Potion traits.


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For the Ruler, an alternative you might consider could be summoner with a dragon eidolon for even more of a "bootleg Targaeryn vibe."

For the Warden, a magus could definitely make sense as an option. Or maybe they are the thaumaturge? Guarding against both mundane and supernatural threats.

keftiu wrote:
And then I’m hopelessly undecided on the other two. A Gnome of some sort fits the fey vibe well, but there’s still no Shamans and I don’t like Druids much! Should there be a Pitaxian rebel, perhaps a Bard or Spy - or maybe an Inventor with stolen Numerian secrets? One of House Medvyed’s dwarf allies? Give a Kobold the spotlight, to center being monster-friendly? And what of including a Cleric or Ranger - Erastil HAS to be represented somewhere! I just can’t make up my mind.

For a gnome, especially if you go with sorcerer for the Ruler, a summoner with a beast (owlbear? <grin>) eidolon might give a "shaman-like" feel. Possibly adding the multiclass Witch Dedication; or maybe Wellspring Magic for a stronger tie to the fey/First World (or even both, if you use a general feat on Adopted Ancestry [Human] and your 9th level ancestry feat on Multitalented [Witch Dedication]).

An android inventor might be appropriate for a Numerian hook, but a kobold ranger (possibly with the Trapsmith Dedication) could have more chances to shine and tie in with Erastil.


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Evan Tarlton wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
RatyborGM wrote:
That's strange a bit, to see elves with human eyes
Which elf? (Usually when this happens it's 'cause of one of two things... the image is actually of a half-elf, who have human eyes, or it's an error that slipped through.)
It's in the Player's Guide. I assumed it was the latter error, because the ears are much too long for a half-elf.

I think you are asking about Ilamaner Melarison on page 45. Looking at the original sketch on the inside back cover of War of the River Kings (Kingmaker AP, 5 of 6), it appears to be an error that slipped through.


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Note that elixirs of life and healing potions do not have the positive trait, so they should be OK.


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I've been kicking around some concepts since Secrets of Magic that haven't been a good "fit" thematically with the APs since Quest for the Frozen Flame:

Elf/Ancient (witch/Wild patron) magus (Inexorable Iron) wielding an elven branched spear

Leshy/Root, Plant Whisperer, druid (flexible spellcaster), Geomancer Dedication

Kitsune (Foxfire at 1st) champion (paladin of Erastil), Soulforger Dedication (weapon/composite longbow) and Eldritch Archer Dedication

Sprite/Grig bard (Maestro muse)

They would probably be appropriate for Kingmaker.


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To expand a bit on Senko's post, the GM should be clear on the difference between a trap and a hazard. Both can be detected, but a hazard can't be disarmed.

An example hazard is a floor made of cracked/rotted/thin/weak stone/wood/etc. that breaks when anyone over a certain weight tries to walk on it. The effect is similar to a pit trap, but there is no mechanical way to "disarm" it so it is a hazard and not a trap. Hazards must be avoided.


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If you want to focus on blasting, it might be more effective to go with arcanist (probably blood arcanist [Orc bloodline] with the School Understanding [Evocation/Admixture to switch energy types of evocation spells] exploit at 5th). Arcanist has fewer spell slots than a sorcerer, but can learn as many spells as the character can afford to scribe, can customize the spells available/prepared for the day based on the expected encounters, and still casts spontaneously.

Personally, I'd avoid heavy armor. At most, take Arcane Armor Training at 3rd level and invest in a mithral chain shirt and a mithral buckler for AC (improved with a couple of magical plusses during middle levels) until the character can cast 5th-level spells at 10th or 11th level; then retrain the feat to Quicken Spell and switch to a haramaki* instead of a mithral chain shirt.

It uses mythic rules, but you might find this character can generate a pretty extreme amount of damage at higher levels. There is a non-mythic outline for a similar character earlier in the the same thread. Generally speaking, archery is pretty strong so the character can shoot arrows when not casting spells; if going this route, Int and Dex should be the highest ability scores and don't dump Str.

*- maximum armor bonus of +6 (+1 base, +5 enhancement), but no arcane failure and can benefit from armor special abilities (such as energy resistance and mirrored) that are prohibited from being applied to bracers of armor


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Generally speaking, unless there is an expectation that the campaign will feature magical traps more than rarely to occasionally, a rogue or other class/archetype* a with Trapfinding or an equivalent ability is probably not "needed" for a party. If the Trap Finder trait is allowed outside of the Mummy's Mask campaign, then there is even less need. Really, all Trapfinding does in PF1e is reduce the resource cost (spells, magic items) for dealing with magical traps using erase, dispel magic, etc. or healing after triggering them.

The "best" (IMO) reason for a rogue when expecting traps is the Trap Spotter rogue talent. Even that, or the equivalent, can gained by non-rogues: some classes/archetypes allow the selection of rogue talents and a more limited version is available to dwarves in Stonecunning (only works on stone, which makes up the majority of the environment in most dungeons).

*- off the top of my head, I can think of a few alchemist and bard archetypes, as well as the investigator, that can gain Trapfinding


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It will require some level of agreement/coordination/negotiation between the GM and the player, as well as an acceptance of limitations on what "upgrades" are available, but Relics could be a decent framework for a "specific" magic weapon. When the character reaches the appropriate level, they can "purchase" a new Relic ability (as if adding a property rune or special ability) of the player's choice instead of having the abilities set by the GM when the item introduced.


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One compromise that may work for "making magic items seem magical" without being required for PF2e system math: use automated bonus progression to keep the PCs at the bonuses/damage expected by the system and also use relics (GMG pg. 94) for the limited number of permanent magic items that the PCs can/will find.

This approach decouples magic items from being necessary (mostly*) to stay effective while also eliminating the "need" to upgrade/replace items (which is also closer to the majority of myth and fiction).

*- depending on how you implement it, relics may be the only way to gain some of the property runes for armor and weapons


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Mainly, I think that the "big 6" from 3.x/PF1 has basically become the "big 3 plus extras." Instead of armor (or bracers/robes/etc. providing an armor bonus), amulet of natural armor, ring of protection, weapon (or other attack booster), save booster, and stat boosters, PF2 only really requires armor/explorer's clothing/bracers of armor, boots of bounding/boots of speed, and handwraps of mighty blows/weapon; all of the rest of the non-consumable magic items, including the skill boosters (and apex items*, if you actually reach 18th+ level) IMO, are "nice to have" but not really required in most cases.

Personally, this allows characters to take more "interesting" items rather than being "forced" to focus almost entirely on the "optimal" choices. Many of the low level skill boosters (the ones that grant innate cantrips** or other spell effects in addition to the skill bonus), for instance, can still be useful for a secondary/tertiary skill and/or occasional situation, even in high level play.

*- granted, apex items are more useful than most magic items, but more of a "big 3.5" than a "big 4" (IMO)
**- even for spell casters to have more cantrips available


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Note that the vigilante, although the description leans heavily into the superhero-ish and/or pulp genres, does not require the use of those themes. The Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro are literary examples that can be used for inspiration instead of comic books (if not going with an archetype that grants similar benefits).

Real world history has many examples going back a long time of people who hid their "real" identities for various reasons when competing in tournaments, fighting in battles/wars, etc. Even the term "black knight" refers to someone that paints over or covers their coat of arms, making it pretty much impossible to identify them as long as they are wearing armor and keeping their face covered.

The vigilante just adds some extra system mechanics to what would otherwise be "background" or "flavor."


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A few things to keep in mind:

1) Arcane trickster works better (IMO) as a ranged touch blaster, using sneak attack to boost damage, than a melee skirmisher; especially before reaching higher levels. If you want to mix melee and spells with sneak attacks, going straight eldritch trickster rogue (possibly with a single level dip in ranger*, slayer, or swashbuckler to regain proficiency in light armor; Arcane Armor Training will counteract spell failure for casting in most light armor) and not taking arcane trickster levels, will probably work out better.

1.5) Straight alchemist with both the beastmorph and vivisectionist archetypes is a very nice melee character and can fill in for a rogue.

2) Snakebite striker brawler grants 1d6 Sneak Attack and +1 BAB at 1st level. With Accomplished Sneak Attacker, a character can qualify for arcane trickster at brawler 1/wizard 4 without having a lower BAB than a straight wizard and only loses one level of casting progression.

3) Before gaining access greater invisibility, being able to consistently deal sneak attacks at range requires specific capabilities: obscuring mist and a way to see through it (sylph with Cloud Gazer, wizard Air/Smoke specialist, goz mask, etc.); personally, Evocation/Admixture is so tempting for a blaster (to switch energy types on the fly) that I lean toward sylph with Cloud Gazer and wizard specializing in Evocation/Admixture.

4) Metamagic feats that work well include Reach Spell and Intensified Spell before Empower Spell and/or Maximize Spell. A Reach Intensified shocking grasp does up to 10d6 damage as a ranged touch attack with no save for a 3rd level spell slot (the same as a fireball or lightning bolt, but can benefit from sneak attack before Surprise Spells).

*- ranger will allow use of wands of cure light wounds, barkskin, etc. without needing Use Magic Item checks


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To hack a computer using the Computers skill, the character must use an interface or a hacking kit; this is explicitly stated in the skill description ("You can operate, manipulate, and hack into computer systems. If you don’t have physical access to a computer system’s user interface, you must use a hacking kit to access and manipulate the system."). Unless stated otherwise, computers in Starfinder do not have a remote/"wireless" interface by default.

See also the user interface description for computers in equipment:

Quote:

A computer’s control module is the input device and display designed to allow you to enter commands into and receive data from the computer. In the Pact Worlds, most user interfaces include a keyboard, view screen, microphone, and speakers, to allow typed, spoken, or gesture-based commands to be given to the computer and to deliver graphic or audio data from the computer. These kinds of user interfaces come free with any system, and a computer can have as many as ten user interfaces per point of bulk the computer has (though normally only public systems or computers used by large companies do this).

It is also possible for a user interface to exist only as a broadcast device (such as a comm unit), or even to have another smaller computer act as a user interface (using a control module). You can set a computer to use this kind of user interface for free when you buy it, though you must pay for the additional device separately, or you can install (or remove) user interfaces using the disable or manipulate module task of the Computers skill to alter a user interface. Such additional user interfaces do not count against the total modules a computer can have.

Other than the Remote Hack mechanic class feature, there are only a few limited options for a character to hack a computer without needing a physical interface or hacking kit: Divine Blessing (Triune), for instance.


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You can cast multiple summon monster or summon nature's ally spells and all of the creatures stay until "killed" or the duration expires.

However, a summoner using their summon monster spell-like ability class feature is restricted to a single use being active at a time ("Drawing upon this ability uses up the same power as the summoner uses to call his eidolon. As a result, he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned... A summoner cannot have more than one summon monster or gate spell active in this way at one time.").


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You could also use Klarkosh from the Emerald Spire for ideas. Granted, the metal-clad template isn't an exact match for cybertech implants...


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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
I've always found more martial classes interesting if they've got some kind of "gimmick" like the Champion's god-given powers or the Magus' spells, and the recently released Thaumaturge is heavenly to me, where by contrast, Fighter and Rogue are classes I've only ever taken as supplements to other more magical classes so they're able to use swords and or to qualify for things like prestige classes in the olden days, and even then I've tried to avoid them in favor of more "gimmicky" classes that just seem inherently more interesting.

For the "non-magical" martial characters, you may want to look at the "gimmicks" that they already have access to:

Fighters - they have access to several feats that are efficient from an action-economy/MAP perspective (Double Slice, Reactive Shield, Sudden Charge, Dual-Handed Assault, etc.) and/or obviate needing a skill check (Brutish Shove, Intimidating Strike, etc.). Combat Flexibility at 9th (and Improved Flexibility at 15th) can give you the opportunity to "learn" a combat option (or two) when facing a specific foe/situation.

Rogues - focus on skills and skill feats. Their main "gimmick" is gaining a skill feat at every level and a skill increase at every level after 1st.

Depending on what sort of character you are looking for, an archetype could be a good addition: for example, dwarf Ratted-Out Gun Runner rogue with Pistol Phenom Dedication in Outlaws of Alkenstar.


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zza ni wrote:

side question: you do know that the Double hackbut is usually mounted on a carriage and if you shoot it without one you take -4 to the attack roll and get knocked prone after firing it?

maybe use something with less recoil?

When attacking touch AC (first range increment; possibly more if you want to burn grit), the -4 penalty will often still result in a better chance of hitting.

To avoid being knocked prone, four levels of monk of the sacred mountain will prevent that from happening as long as the character "starts and ends his turn in the same space." The character only loses one from full BAB, plus picks up +1 natural armor (not an enhancement bonus to natural armor) and some unarmed combat benefits.

Note that a monk can wear armor they are proficient with, they just lose the Wis and class AC bonuses, fast movement, and flurry of blows when doing so.


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The difference between a sorcerer's and a wizard's effectiveness in play is not that great, most of the time.

A sorcerer that fills their spells known mostly with benchmark spells and spells with wide applicability or multiple applications, rather than overdoing it on thematic selections, can do quite well. Basically, a sorcerer's effectiveness range has less variance than a wizard.

The spell selection of a wizard (like all prepared casters), however, can be tailored to the expected circumstances; sometimes, with adequate research/advance scouting, to the point of having "the perfect spell" for most situations being encountered. Granted, it is seldom the case that a wizard will always have just the right spell in just the right amount prepared (Schrodinger's wizard). Personally, I usually have two or three different preparation lists for prepared casters that may be further tailored to expected scenarios: dungeon (mostly short-range, constricted sight-lines), town (social encounters, minimize collateral damage), and wilderness (longer ranges, more mobility/open terrain). Basically, a wizard can be more effective than a sorcerer if they are able to tailor their prepared spells to the scenario.

As far as learning spells go, unless the GM is heavily restricting the wizard's opportunities (lack of down time, never find enemy spell books, NPC wizards don't allow PC wizard to copy spells for a fee), a wizard will "know" more spells than a sorcerer. Also, a wizard can readily scribe scrolls of several spells that are really useful in some circumstances but normally are not worth preparing in a spell slot (like water breathing).

Now, whether or not a person wants to put the extra effort in making a wizard reach that higher bar of effectiveness... is a decision that each person should make for themself, based on their preferences, the campaign, and the rest of the group.


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At some level, pretty much all characters are similar to the person playing them. Even if the character was created with a radically different background and stated personality, the person playing them is still the one actually thinking and reacting.

Exactly how much overlap there is between the player and the character can differ. Sometimes, the character can take actions that the player would consider but consider too risky to attempt in real life (because of ability, training, social status, legal implications, etc.). Or the player may want to emphasize certain tendencies that they don't have many opportunities to explore as themself.

Even a character with a large overlap with the player isn't "bad" if it is appropriate to the character's background, goals, and the campaign. It may get a bit old if it becomes a habit, however; just like the players who almost always play "the same" character for a given race/class combination.


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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
I've learned the hard way that the days of the Oradin are long over

Tangent:

Spoiler:
Champion with multiclass Oracle Dedication for spellcasting is decent to good; oracle with multiclass Champion Dedication is pretty meh. In 2e, it's usually more mechanically effective to add spellcasting to a martial class than to try to add martial ability to a casting class.

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Well...

That's a pretty lame way to start a campaign. "Make up a character with no real place in the setting (because the setting is undefined)... And then the character dies/becomes an undead version." I wouldn't put it past the GM to have some BBEG/evil organization basically pulling the characters' strings (the PCs are lackeys/minions) because plot hooks are difficult to come up with.

If the GM wanted an undead party, why not just create an undead-themed community or nation (i.e., Geb in Golarion)?

A more interesting setup (IMO) would to have the players create characters, possibly also outlining some parts of the world (which the GM may tweak or add secret parts to; stuff that is not "common knowledge"), and then have them be doppelgangers infiltrating the town in their "PC" personas. Run the campaign as a heist movie (Italian Job, Oceans Eleven, etc.) or a spy thriller. They can go on "normal" adventures as part of their "cover identity" while working toward some other goal at the same time.


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You can argue it either way. Which is why I said "expect table variation."

Personally, I consider the description of the revelations as more than just "flavor-text;" if the description states the armor is made of a physical substance (ice, bone, wood), then it is so. As I mentioned, others will hold a different interpretation.

I don't believe there is a FAQ, so this falls in the "ask your GM" category.


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Some people want a simple, straightforward hook for their character. Others want a more complex, multifaceted concept.

Neither is necessarily "wrong." I personally think the simplistic mindset is somewhat limiting. However, others may want a game that is more straightforward.

One thing that may contribute to the pigeonholing of characters by classes: reading habits. I have found that people who read less sci-fi, fantasy, literature, mythology, etc. are more likely to think of characters in a "flat" way.


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Expect table variation.

The description of the Ice Armor revelation (like Armor of Bones for the Bones mystery and Wood Armor for the Wood mystery) states that the armor is made of ice (or bones or wood) and not force. However, some will say that all of the protective revelations* must be treated the same even though some are described as physical substances (which would make them valid targets for magic vestment) and others aren't.

*- Spirit Shield for the Ancestor mystery, Cloak of Darkness for the Dark Tapestry mystery, Coat of Many Stars for the Heavens mystery, etc.


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I just want to add one thing: A "tank" in TTRPG terms is not the same as a "tank" in MMO terms.

A TTRPG "tank", going back to the wargaming/D&D/AD&D 1e days, borrowed the term from the military: a heavily armored and/or tough character that hits hard.

A MMO "tank" is something different, as many TTRPGs do not have (automatic) mechanisms to make opponents focus on a specific PC while ignoring the others. Note that in TTRPG terms, this is closer to being a battlefield controller; which you can absolutely do as a TTRPG "tank" with tripping, grapples, or other attacks that restrict opponents' actions.


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The Raven Black wrote:
Kasoh wrote:

If I look back on all the things that would 'never happen' in fictional settings until the publisher/creator suddenly decided to have it happen, I come to the conclusion that when a company says 'That will never happen' they actually mean 'Its not profitable enough to for it to happen yet.'

I agree: no one should rez Aroden. Its not a good idea. Does all sorts of weird things to the fiction of the setting. Violates all sorts of established precedent. Diegetic and non diegetic reasons abound. But one of those reasons is not a limit on a deity's power--because they do not have written limits on their powers.

Deities in Golarion are neither all-mighty nor all-knowing. So, yes they have limits on their power.

Granted, exactly what those limits are are not well defined. That they exist is stated: the various deities can hide things from each other, make mistakes, or even be surprised by mortals (sometimes).

From the various mythologies released by Paizo, the closest to an "all-mighty/all-knowing" deity would be Pharasma. However, even Pharasma can be thwarted (Uragotha, the sahkils, etc.).


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Sanityfaerie wrote:
I also notice that they're leveraging that Charisma in another way, too - from the sounds of things, their investigations involved a lot of "Go around and talk to people and ask questions."

Even though the investigator has the Columbo catchphrase "Just one more thing," it sounds as if Mios is more similar to Columbo than Quinn would be.

Apart from the demon-/monster-/undead-slaying bit, of course.


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I would say (from what I remember from the books, rather than any of the movie adaptations), that rogue with the charlatan and underground chemist archetypes could work pretty well. Maximum skill ranks in Craft (Alchemy) and Craft (Clockwork) might also fit for various "magic tricks."


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A spellcaster* may only want to take 1-3 levels for Gigantic Steed (Huge, plus Str and Con bonuses), Steed (improved selection of possible companion/mount), and possibly Rugged Steed.

Granted, a "typical" group will probably not want a Huge animal companion/mount because of the limitations where they can be brought. However, it could make sense for some character concepts.

*- either a class that gets an animal companion via a class feature (cleric with Animal domain, druid, hunter, wildblooded sorcerer with the Fey/Sylvan bloodline, etc.) or with the Nature Soul + Animal Ally feats


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The "cheapest" (monetary) way to get a "returning" effect on a thrown weapon is Quick Draw + Martial Focus + Ricochet Toss.

Note that when you can afford it, a belt of mighty hurling* is quite useful.

*- or the greater version, if you are already high-level (and grants returning to all weapons thrown by the character)


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Two other options:

1) Adapt the spell junk armor to use organic "junk" instead of technological junk. It should probably be in the mystic (geneturges, xenodruids) or witchwarper (change reality) spell list. As a 1st-level spell, it could be selected with Connection Inkling or Reality Glimmer.

2) Rewrite the nanocyte based on biotech/organic manipulation (possibly magical) instead of technological nanites. This will probably require some work (replace the Gear Array with a version of the witchwarper's Infinite Tech, etc.), although many of the class features could be applicable (the faculties could work with minor changes, IMO).


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You could also re-flavor the Infinite Tech witchwarper alternate class feature to conjure organic components.


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Other armors made of living material: preserver's mantle and dendron armor.

"Armor" integrated into the body would be augmentations. Note that dermal plating can be installed using adaptive biochains.

There is also the Geneturge mystic connection, which allows the character to alter their biotech. The Biotechnician theme doesn't allow biotech changes, but does give a 10% discount at 6th and the ability to install a second biotech augmentation in the same body slot at 12th (this is in addition to the Insistent Biochains connection power for a Geneturge, although I don't think you can have three augmentations in the same body slot).

It's not currently RAW, but you could possibly ask your GM if you could use an epiphany for a mystic to manifest solar armor or a solar shield, as they allow a solar flare (Mystic Flare) or solar weapon (Solar Connection).


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Alchemist with both elixir of life and necrotic bomb in their formula book. Perhaps also with Magical Crafting and oil of unlife in their crafting formulas or the multiclass Witch Dedication, Basic Witch Spellcasting (for soothe), and Basic Witchcraft (Cauldron).


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To prevent PC vs. PC combat (something that seldom goes over well), the paladin disassociating from the rest of the party is probably the "best" route to take. The paladin is 1) not likely to be able to defeat the rest of the PCs alone and 2) staying would be at a minimum tacit acceptance/approval of the party's actions.

Now, the paladin (in character) should also probably be traveling to Restov to report the rest of the PCs as treacherous scum to the Sword Lords and the churches of Abadar, Erastil, and Sarenrae...


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LordeAlvenaharr wrote:
We are about to start this campaign in the next few weeks, apart from me, everyone is "newbies" in Pathfinder 2, (very bad, one shot...), apart from a champion not yet defined on which trend, we won't have any healers focused, I I have already determined and will go from Thaumaturge, I intend to help by getting the feat regarding scrolls, buy them whenever possible. Is it viable for survival? How long/books should it work? Grateful!

Combats in Age of Ashes (especially early on) are rather tough, so in-combat healing is much more likely to be needed than in PF1. However, there are more options than just a cleric using Divine Font for heal. A caster with the occult list can cast soothe. An alchemist, or an investigator with the Alchemical Sciences methodology, can create elixirs of life during their daily preparations (or Quick Alchemy/Quick Tincture) for additional healing as well.

You may also want someone that's good in the Medicine skill and the Battle Medicine skill feat.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
A thief doesn't need get strength to damage, Dragonchess Player.

That is only true "when attacking with a finesse melee weapon." Granted, the character will usually be doing so, but that's not the same as "always."

Considering how hard monsters/NPCs hit in PF2e and the action economy benefit of having enemies move, ranged sneak attacks with a short composite bow are probably a good idea to start combats with instead of the PCs rushing in.


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wolven wrote:

[After the duel] the party wizard attacked the Boggard cleric in an attempt to take him out. The rest of the party joined in on the attack except the Paladin who tried to get everyone to stop. And once the party kept attacking the Paladin walked away in disgust.

My first thought is that this is probably not an evil act, though certainly not a good act, but is definitely a dishonorable act. It's most definitely, in my opinion, a chaotic act, though there are no Lawful characters, other then the Paladin.

I would say it is at least a minor chaotic evil act. Probably not enough for an immediate alignment change, but not something a so-called "good" character should be doing.

wolven wrote:
I've long since given up enforcing alignment violations but I do use PC actions to adjust how people react to them. I'm contemplating having the Neutral Good Cleric of Cayden Cailean receive a 'minor sense of disapproval' when praying for their spells. But I'm not even sure about that.

Yes, that is appropriate. Cayden would not like "cheaters" who refuse to accept the results of a fair contest.

wolven wrote:
The Paladin is not being judged by her deity as she did not participate in the attack. Though that brings up another discussion point. Should she be in trouble for leaving her party even though they were engaged in a dishonorable act?

No. The paladin is acting appropriately.


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IMO, the inquisitor is probably closer to a cleric/ranger hybrid than a cleric/paladin.

Cleric//inquisitor//ranger would be pretty nice for stacking bane with Favored Enemy and the cleric buffs/healing.

Technically, bard (rogue/sorcerer), paladin (cleric/fighter), and ranger (druid/fighter) are the prototype hybrid classes in AD&D 2e/D&D 3.x/PF1; bard was the prototype prestige class in AD&D 1e (fighter/thief/druid).


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For combat effectiveness, I agree that cleric//fighter//warpriest is probably one of the best options. Although fighter//magus*//wizard (sword binder) would also work quite well after 6th level (and Broad Study).

For spellcasting, I think oracle//shaman//witch might have the widest selection of spells. It would probably be best to take the seducer witch archetype so both oracle and witch spellcasting are based on Cha.

IMO, all arcanist//sorcerer//wizard really does is add more spell slots from the same spell list while keeping the "squishy wizard" chassis. Not really that exciting, other than adding some flexibility on prepared vs. spontaneous casting.

*- even though it's not explicitly a "hybrid class" from the Advanced Class Guide


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One partial workaround is via the Soulforger archetype. Unfortunately, it requires two class feats (plus a third if you want to take another archetype): Soulforger Dedication and Rapid Manifestation. It's not as good as a returning rune, but it still lets you throw the same weapon multiple times.

Manifest your soulforged weapon (free action), throw your soulforged weapon (one action), dismiss your soulforged weapon (one action), manifest your soulforged weapon (free action), and throw your soulforged weapon again (one action). The next round, dismiss your soulforged weapon (one action), manifest your soulforged weapon (free action), throw your soulforged weapon again (one action), and dismiss your soulforged weapon (one action). Rinse/repeat.


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Just to add on to other comments:

You definitely want to start with at least a 10 Str and probably a 12 Con.

You should not emphasize Int that much, as you are not taking a multiclass dedication in witch or wizard. A 10 or 12 Int should probably be enough.

You should probably consider starting with a 14 Cha, as well.

This is more of a general comment, but in PF2 one of the main keys to success is in effective use of the three action economy. It is seldom worthwhile to use all three actions to just attack a foe in a round; instead, PCs should usually be using one action out of the three to buff an ally or debuff an enemy.

You will probably find Bon Mot more useful than Assurance (Stealth) at 1st level. Likewise, you will probably get more use out of Tumble Behind than You're Next early on.

Dread Striker is a good choice for a rogue (teamwork!) at 4th level. Intimidation to demoralize remains a reliable debuff, even with the change to Scare to Death. Especially by a barbarian with the Raging Intimidation class feat (and the Intimidating Prowess skill feat); you may want to suggest the barbarian take the multiclass Rogue Dedication and pick up Basic Trickery (You're Next), as they are focusing on Intimidation anyway; they may want to consider Advanced Trickery (Head Stomp), as well for when they trip a foe.

Ability score increases should likely focus on Dex (class DCs, Acrobatics, Stealth, Thievery, Ref saves), Con (hp, Fort saves), Str (for increased weapon damage), and Wis (Perception, Medicine, Will saves)/Cha (Diplomacy). Personally, I might go with 3 Str boosts, 2 Wis boosts, and 3 Cha boosts (instead of 4 Str boosts, 2 Wis boosts, 2 Cha boosts); or 2 Str boosts, 2 Wis boosts, 4 Cha boosts if you want to focus on Deception and Diplomacy.


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You might be able to come close with a warrior muse bard, warpriest cleric, druid (leaf order with Order Explorer [Storm] or storm order with Order Explorer [Leaf]), or oracle and the Staff Acrobat archetype (possibly the Acrobat Dedication as well).

As mentioned, a more mechanically sound path is magus or monk with a multiclass dedication in a casting class.


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I believe that the "as part of conjuring an armor or weapon" implies that the intent is that when the item is conjured, the item can also include upgrades or fusions that are already installed (which costs 1 RP for each upgrade/fusion as they are in addition to the armor or weapon).

I would follow a similar restriction as the armor or weapon ("conjured gear has an item level equal to your caster level") on any upgrade(s) or fusion(s), as well. On the fusion side, the limitations on installing fusions (total fusion item levels cannot exceed the weapon's item level) keep it within reason; you could also potentially use a similar restriction for armor upgrades as a house rule, if you feel that a player is abusing the ability.

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