Doomdspair`'s page

Some interesting notions. However, the thing that got me to post was the statement about martial arts not existing in the game period.

The earliest known martial art was not eastern, it was Greek. Pankration is documented to have existed in the 7th century BC. China would get into the act in the fifth century. India has evidence of martial arts existing there before either of them. There are plenty of other documented unarmed martial arts existing well before the time periods that most closely resemble the completely fantasy based settings of Pathfinder.

And that's just unarmed martial arts. Armed martial arts have existed throughout history. Somehow people like to think that people who fought with weapons in the past were all idiots and didn't put time and effort into training and developing techniques to survive. Or that it was something that was purely Eastern.

Anyhow, as for suggestions.
Take call fighter only feats, call them "Techniques"
Add Techniques that deal with some of the problems. They can combine a mixture of flashy and non-flashy so people can play the way they want. Spell reflection, increasing will and reflex saves, bursts of speed, what have you. I don't think that everything needs to be slavish to the whole "We can do this all day" because you are adding these to a class that is already pretty darn good at fighting all day. I don't think anyone is suggesting that fighters suck 24/7 currently. They just need help with a few situations.

Sounds like you want to be lazy. That's not an insult. You're playing a game, so it's not like you're doing something productive anyway (:

...

If you don't want to do the work, you're not going to get the return you want. Maybe your expectations should be tempered?

I just don't get this mentality. Why is it so hard to accept that there are lots of games out there that might meet someone's needs better than Pathfinder? Sure you can toy with rules and get a collection of house rules that works for you, but in the end, sometimes other games work better.

PF does reward optomization, so if that's not what you are wanting from a game, then it is definitely not the game to be playing.

My group personally finds this to be one of the greatest improvements to play ever. It really helps make mages feel like magic users at low levels.

Love your storytelling there Galbraithe. It makes me want to play in that setting/scenario.

As an alternate to the great story hook idea, if you are seriously bothered by the endless water creation, just take a page from DnD in there original desert setting and say "Create Water doesnt work here". A super simple fix for your desert campaigns.

Even without that, the geisha archetype has a few attributes that can make them better companions to nobility. First, as less martial than regular bards they can be considered less dangerous, and more likely to be occupied in urban adventures than the wandering some noble classes may consider distasteful. On the other hand, their specialized training includes skills more useful or desirable to the upper class. Calligraphy, specialized heraldic knowledge, diplomacy - these are typical pursuits of an (urbanized) noble class, and those who gravitate around it. The archetype might not necessarily represent a geisha, but certainly...

Compare to the Court Bard, who is specifically built to associate with the highest level of noble society. If you want to use archetypes as short-cut background stories, then they obviously have a substantial leg up as far as being companions to nobility. Their Heraldic Knowledge is substantially better than Geisha Knowledge (as far as diplomacy goes) given the fact that it has the same bonus to Diplomacy /and/ gives them the ability to reroll.

Before I get sidetracked any further though, the court bard is obviously a nobility companion, and hasn't had to give up the ability to wear armor and have a selection of weapons.

The geisha's bonus to one performance type can be very nice. Incredibly nice. Game altering nice in many ways. I get tied up in numbers as a source of roleplaying sometimes, so the fact that they are the only archetype that gets that bonus to perform flips a switch in the back of my head that says "If you want to rp being the very best singer, dancer, musician, etc. you must be a geisha". Probably only me. I just have visions of me playing a 20th level any-other-bard, posing that I'm all that, then the geisha comes out and displays that they are fifty percent better than I am. Ouch!

A geisha is perceived as less threatening and more accepted in high society due to her (relative) lack of combat skills, and likely unwillingness to muck about in dungeons, swamps and the like. This is less definite than the above because it will likely involve social factors and not straight mechanical bonuses, but this is how I interpret the fluff of the class. The bonus to calligraphy can also provide a bonus to that, in certain (admittedly rare) situations. In general, I'd say in most cultures that allow for such a role, the geisha will likely be a lot closer to the high classes than a "common entertainer" (bard).

Whoa now...

Don't confuse being a Geisha with being a geisha. One is a class archetype, the other is a profession that can be taken/performed by any class/any archetype. The archetype has no ability to be accepted more than any other archetype, nor is it some sort of requirement to being a working geisha. You could easily play a Paladin who is a geisha professionally.

The bardic knowledge bit seems to equal out, so are scribe scrolls and the tea ceremony worth the loss of armor? Personally I say it isn't. Easy fix, ignore the armor thing. I rather think someone made the same mistake of confusing the job with the archetype and said "Geishas don't wear armor" Probably accurate when doing their job, just like most bard performers.