Divergent's page

How in the world is the Wild Stalker Barbarian+?

And where does it get "most" of the Ranger class abilities.

Lets analyze the Wild Stalker shall we:
Rage -3 thats in itself a Problem beacause the better Rage Powers all have a Minimum Classlevel.
No Greater Rage at all.
Fewer Hitpoints
Loses Favoured enemy.
Loses Combat Style.
Loses Hunters Bond.
Loses Quarry.
Loses Improved Quarry

Now what does he get in eychange:
Track O_o
Endurance as a Bonus Feat wow this is getting better and better
Lowlight Vision Barbarian can get
Perception Bonus well thats something I guess
Favoured Terrain Barbarian can get
Evasion well thats at least something
Wild Talents Those are s#+! Rage Powers are way better

So what the Wild Stalker does is give a weaker rage without DR and all that barbarian archetype stuff, in exchange for a Perception Bonus, Evasion and here it comes .........Track.
Oh and you get +2 Skill Points.
I´m not saying this can´t make a decent character, It probably can because it´s somewhat of a Barbarian.....just weaker.

Actually. . .

A Wild Stalker, in comparison to a Barbarian, loses:
Damage Reduction.
Trap Sense.
Greater/Mighty Rage.
Tireless Rage.
Improved Uncanny Dodge.
Two rage powers.
Six rounds of rage.
One less hit point a level.

What does that boil down to? Lose a few small bonuses to hit and damage (neither of which really matter, since to hit bonuses scale faster than AC, and +2 or 3 damage is paltry), lose a hit point every level (also unimportant, since most hit points are gained through Con bonuses, and you have a d10 anyways). Improved Uncanny Dodge is a very situational ability, which amounts to essentially gaining +2 AC every once in a blue moon. Six rounds of rage is worth one feat, and Damage Reduction is near-useless in the small amounts provided by the Barbarian class.

So, honestly, you aren't missing much.

On the other hand, you gain:
Low-light vision/ perception bonuses.
Four bonus feats.
Track.
Wild Empathy.
Endurance.
Woodland Stride.
Evasion.
Favored Terrain.
Quarry.
Camouflage.
Improved Evasion.
HiPs.
Improved Quarry.
Master Hunter.
Good Reflex save.
Two more skill ranks a level.
4th level spells (this is the big one).

While Wild Empathy, Woodland Stride, Endurance, and Track are all pretty situational, they are at least, free bonuses. The extra good save, combined with Evasion and Improved Evasion, means you are less vulnerable to any wizard who's idiot enough to even use blasting spells, so you gain increased combat longevity in magic duels. Favored Terrains, Camouflage, and HiPs all provide nice bonuses when called for, but those aren't the meat of the Wild Stalker. Bonus feats are bonus feats. The best thing, however, the thing that makes the Wild Stalker objectively better than the regular Barbarian, and arguably the Ranger, is the access to 4th level spells and extra skill points. The boost in versatility just from those two things is massive, allowing actual contribution outside combat, which is where the real power in 3.x comes from.

tl;dr: the versatility of spells and skills, plus extra skills, bonus feats, and other out-of-combat options, makes the Wild Stalker a straight upgrade over a regular Barbarian.

Wild Stalker(Ranger):
I really don´t get this one, what it is is a Barbarian-3.It really does not get anything a Barbarian could´t get ,and it trades out all that makes him a Ranger.

Wild Stalker is actually Barbarian+, since they get nearly all of the barbarian's class features slapped onto a ranger chassis, including most of the Ranger's class abilities, 4th level spells, and 6+ skill ranks. Pretty much a straight improvement over both classes.

The http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue -archetypes/rake Rogue archetype allows you to make intimidate checks as a free action if you sacrifice one sneak attack dice. The http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue -archetypes/scout archetype allows you to get a single sneak attack off if you move more than 10 feet in a round. This is where it gets interesting; http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shatter-defenses-combat---final lets you attack a shaken enemy as if they were flat-footed. So, combined with some method of free movement, such as http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power/effect-words/accelerate or hustle, you can move and full-sneak-attack, as well as intimidate your enemy.

Seconding a shapeshifting class. Would prefer if it didn't have spells either.

TOZ wrote:

Trinam wrote:

Actually you can probably just ignore this thread. Move on folks, nothing to see here.

"Stop having fun guys!"

I feel silly, now.

And yet, this discussion is as relevant today as it was back in the ancient times of CoDzilla.

You say that as if CoDzilla didn't still exist.

An attack action is differnet than making an attack. Vital strike is an attack action so is what is called out in scout.

Yes you can make many attacks in a turn especially if he has a reach weapon and combat reflexes.

. . . Kind of just like a full attack action.

EDIT: Also, if the ability were activated by a standard action, it would have to state so. As it is, it is activated by you making at least one attack after moving more than 10 feet.

Don't forget that if you're going the dual-wield route you need two enchanted weapons.

Really the two-handed strength-based ninja pulls out the consistent high damage. The weapon finesse dexterity two weapon fighting stars aligning one? Eh.

Actually, I'm still gonna say 'sneak attack, eh.'

The ninja is fun because of vanishing trick, because of mirror image, because of the sweet acrobatics you can do. Sneak attack is awful compared with any of the other damage mechanics in the game, but at least the ninja can turn invisible to do it reliably.

That's kind of the point of my build, since it means you an get sneak attack off consistently, making it much better.

@Talonhawke:
Oops, missed that. 48,000 is right.

@Talonhawke:

You still aren't getting it. An attack action is whenever you make an attack, so if I were to make a full attack after moving, all of my attacks would be 'attack actions.'

Q: What type of action (standard, full, move, swift, free) does Vital Strike use?

A: (Jason Bulmahn) Vital Strike is an attack action, which is a type of standard action.

Note: Attack Action means it is one of the types of action listed under Standard Actions List. You see that Attack is is one of the types of Standard Actions available others including: Activate Magic Item, Cast a Spell, Total Defense, and Use Special Ability. [Source]

This should help you understand that there is a difference.

You can make an attack action as a standard action, yes. But you'll notice that if all attack actions were standard actions, you couldn't make full attacks, because all of the attacks therein are attack actions.

24,000G would be the cheapest and your GM has a right to tell you its gonna be more as thats a pretty powerful ability to have on any character.

What? The formula for a continuous item is Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp. Accelerate is a 2nd level spell, so assuming minimum caster level, that's 2 x 3 x 2,000gp, which comes out to 12,000.

While there's nothing wrong with a pure classed ninja, barbarian, fighter and ranger levels are like salt: a sprinkle almost never hurts.

I dunno, I suppose it's a matter of taste. Personally, I would prefer the extra sneak attack die, skill points, and proximity to more ki points. Extra to hit, damage, and HP never hurt anyone though, I'll admit.

Ugh, I said I wouldn't acknowledge you and then I fail my will save.

Cornugon Smash

Doesn't require a sneak attack to use, doesn't require moving or flanking, just requires a power attack, which if you were going for damage, you were doing anyway.

Now please take it to another thread. Post your DPR if you like. You might troll some more people.

Cornugon Smash is much more inefficient. Taking both two-weapon fighting penalties as well as power attack penalties, on a medium BAB chassis? Ugh. Rake does it better.

@Talonhawke:
You still aren't getting it. An attack action is whenever you make an attack, so if I were to make a full attack after moving, all of my attacks would be 'attack actions.'

Also how often can you count on having access to the free move magic in one day.

Level 2 caster ability so potions are good for 3 rnds at a time with a cost of 300gp.

I wouldn't buy potions for this sort of thing, I would buy a ring of constant Accelerate. Only about 12,000 GP.

As for build choice, I would go pure Ninja if I were you. Mixing two classes, both of whom have a limited resource pool to draw from to fuel their class features, tends not to work out.

Alternate Classes

Alternate classes are standalone classes whose basic ideas are very close to established base classes, yet whose required alterations would be too expansive for an archetype. An alternate class operates exactly as a base class, save that a character who takes a level in an alternate class can never take a level in its associated class—a samurai cannot also be a cavalier, and vice versa.

And once again the ninja can use anything outside of the differences in class so the ninja can now have his extra move as well.

Huh, that might work. Alright, I concede that the Ninja may be capable of becoming a Scout.

Yes, the Ninja can have the Scout archetype and the extra move action, but neither of those things are what allow this build to work. The move action allows you to get off a full attack, the first of which is a sneak attack, thanks to Scout. You then use the Rake archetypes ability (which the ninja cannot have) to sacrifice 1 or 2 sneak attack dice, allowing you to make an intimidate check as a free action. Since you have now struck a shaken enemy, the rest of your attacks against him count as if he were flat-footed, thanks to Shattering Defenses. That's how it works.

You're wrong, but okay. We're off-topic.

Pfft. Trying to just dismiss my argument because you don't have a response backed by the rules? Classy.

The Ninja by RAW can take the scout archetype. It is an alternate rogue class and it has the prerequisite abilities to give up.

Are you really arguing still that the rogue has more combat utility than the ninja? The ninja who can turn invisible as a swift action, who can throw bombs that damage or cause smoke? The ninja who can get an extra attack during a full attack over the rogue?

DPR the ninja wins, in utility the ninja wins. The rake is not the only way to intimidate on an attack, nor is it even the best. And sneak attack is not good damage, except in the most generous of circumstances.

The ninja, by RAW, cannot take the Scout archetype, because it is not a Rogue.

None of those are particularly impressive anyways, but I never stated that the Rogue has more combat utility than the ninja, just more consistency.

DPR, the Rogue just won. If you can't get your full sneak attack off, your DPR is less than the Rogue, who did.

These are the most generous of circumstances, since the rogue is getting all of his sneak attacks off.

If your focusing on one attack each round then yeah your gonna fall behing the guy who can go invisible and make full attacks and can also make sneak attacks after moving 10 feet.

I don't think you read my post correctly. Using my combo, the rogue will be moving, full attacking, and getting sneak attack off on all of them.

Regardless of whether the ninja has the correct abilities or not, he can't trade them out because he isn't a rogue anymore, he's a ninja. By your logic, a Barbarian could take the Scout archetype because he has Uncanny Dodge and Imp. Uncanny Dodge.

All of which is besides the point, since the Rake archetype is the important part of the equation, because it lets you make free intimidate checks, which lets you treat the rest of your attacks as sneak attacks.

A ninja can take the scout archetype. Also please tell me why 3.5 damage per die is really so much to shout about?

Er, no, they can't. Ninja is an alternate class, and can't take any of the original class's archetypes because it no longer has any of the class features of the original.

3.5 damage per die isn't much, but when you are two-weapon fighting and getting off 4-5 attacks a round, that adds up. The reason it is something to shout about is because it allows Rogues to be useful in combat in a much more consistent fashion, which is their greatest weakness.

There is nothing that makes a rogue better than a ninja in terms of combat.

And the fact that sneak attack is its most important combat contribution is a problem for the rogue.

Oh, but there is.

The http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue -archetypes/rake Rogue archetype allows you to make intimidate checks as a free action if you sacrifice one sneak attack dice. The http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue -archetypes/scout archetype allows you to get a single sneak attack off if you move more than 10 feet in a round. This is where it gets interesting; http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shatter-defenses-combat---final lets you attack a shaken enemy as if they were flat-footed. So, combined with some method of free movement, such as http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power/effect-words/accelerate or hustle, you can move and full-sneak-attack, as well as intimidate your enemy.

Only a Rogue can pull that one off.

Son of the Veterinarian wrote:

I'm not sure if there's an official ruling on it or not, but in the absence of one saying you can, if I were GM I'd have to rule that sneak attacking falls under an "ability that requires patience or concentration".

So you couldn't do it, or any of the ninja tricks, while raging.

Because the rogue isn't bad enough, let's make some house rules!

Hayato Ken wrote:

Don´t worry about damage, that comes from sneak attack.
If you group fight, take combat expertise and gang up, perfect for ninjas and rogues to deal sneak attack.

Sneak attack is not high damage. Certainly not high enough to make up for the BAB hit from multiclassing monk/ninja. Fighter/ninja will be better, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with barbarian/ninja.

I fully endorse reach weapon sneak as well. Anything to make it easier to do is a good thing. That said, your stats are a little... eh. I would never dump wisdom that far down. Barbarians and ninjas both have a poor will save, so dumping it to 7 means a -2 to start. I would cut strength to 18 and bump up that wisdom to at least 10. The intellect is basically fine because of how many skill points you'll have, although you may feel more stunted than the typical ninja.

Why so much hate for the Rogue? Between the Rogue and the Ninja, the Rogue is the one who wins at sneak attacking, which is the most important combat contribution for both classes.

mplindustries wrote:

Bob_Loblaw wrote:

So it would no longer be a party of 4 wizards. That only supports my point.

Well, I think it depends on what point you're trying to prove.

If you're trying to prove that a Wizard needs a tank to survive (especially at low levels), then you're pretty spot on in your assessment.

I'm trying to prove that wizards (or casters in general) are not nearly as powerful as people want to claim. Quite a bit of the talk is hyperbole and I have noticed that when people (not you personally) get called out on it, they can't back it up. I know that casters are potent at any level. I don't think that they can simply walk into Mordor with one hand tied behind their backs because they are casters. That's how it comes across from too many people.

Quote:

If you're trying to prove that being a Figther is as powerful and useful to the group as being a Wizard is, well, I think you'd lose that one. You can hire (or later, summon) an NPC to do the same thing, since all that's really needed is a mobile sack of hit points to take up space, eat some hits, and finish off the "controlled" enemies casters leave in their wake. Congratulations, Fighter player, you fill the same role as a hireling/summon!

Wizards and clerics can be hired too so it's a moot point. Usefulness is going to be too campaign dependent and I am working on avoiding that argument because it's a foolish one from all sides.

Bob_Loblaw wrote:

Remember that you would have to run through the whole gauntlet. You wouldn't be dealing with just one encounter and calling it a day. You would be expending your resources as you go. The best Will save is the dragon at +4. Of course it also has an initiative bonus of +7, which will be hard to match if the wizards are stuck in 10 point buy.

I think I misunderstood and assumed the Wizards would have ample time, like in a real scenario. They could use familiars to scout ahead and determine what spells they need for the upcoming encounter, and possibly...

The thing is, you can't really prove that wizards aren't as powerful as people make them out to be, because they are that powerful. A popular example on this board is the Schrodingers wizard, who always has the correct spells prepared. You know what? This is the correct way to think of them. Any competent wizard will spend a few spell slots at the beginning of the day to assess whether they will be threatened within the next week, and if so, what will be attacking them. Then they can refine their spell list to be perfectly matched for whatever they will be facing.

More than that, the best spells a wizard can use are Save-or-Sucks, ie. spells that demand a will/ref/fort save or be immobilized or receive some severe penalty. Most enemies don't have the saves to stop all three different types, and those that do can be taken down through other means (such as massive damage via metamagicked spells).

The argument most make against this type of wizard is that they can't do that kind of thing all day long. But, they can. Look at a 5th level specialist wizard; he has at least a dozen spell slots available for use in a day, which means 3 spells for each combat, plus any scrolls, wands, or staves he has crafted. The fighter, or any other martial class, cannot match that, because their resource, HP, is expended much more quickly by getting into them middle of a fight. Healing them doesn't count either, because that is expending further resources to make sure the fighter remains viable, which makes him a drain on party resources, rather than an asset.

In conclusion, a fighters place in the party can easily be taken by a summoned monster, who has the edge on him by being completely expendable and requiring few buffs.

Divergent wrote:

Uh, what? no other level than 1st matters? I don't think you understand exactly what I'm saying. First level is the least indicative of how the rest of the game plays, since at that level there are so few hit points and resources in general to utilize that nearly every combat is a game of rocket tag. I would actually say that there is no level less important than 1st for the purposes of. . . Well, anything.

For the purposes of demonstrating how incredibly awesome a party of 4 wizards is and how well they can always, with ease, half a dozen handle EL+2 encounters, sure it is all that really matters. If they can't handle approximately 2 days of adventuring to make it to level 2, then it doesn't matter how awesome they are at level 2. They didn't live that long.

You said the math was there. I want to see it. You didn't say that the math was there for all levels higher than 1.

Yeah, you know what? I'm done trying to convince you. You're pretty clearly set in your ways, and I doubt any evidence I could present you with will change your mind about the disparity in power between spellcasters and martial characters.

Lets make it a bit clearer; 1st level sucks. Daily resources, which include HP, are incredibly low. Most battles tend to be decided by who wins initiative, and at this level, yes, melee characters tend to be best, because they have more endurance (for this and the next level only, I stress). After about level 3, however, the rocket tag abides, and spellcaster resources improve in both quality and quantity.

Frankly, any experiment done at 1st level simply has no bearing on any other aspect of the game, since it is not representative of the resource management or abilities of classes later in the game.

Lastly, not all characters begin at level 1, and those that do usually don't have to face a series of encounters significantly above their character level.

So, basically, this whole thing is a sham.

Divergent wrote:

ShadowcatX wrote:

Bob_Loblaw wrote:

Nope. You claimed that a party of wizards at 10 point buy can handle half a dozen CR +2 encounters with ease. I want to see it. I've already selected the 6 encounters. They are nothing special. Certainly nothing out of the ordinary (no customized or template creatures for example). They are straight out of the Bestiary and the Core Rule Book.

Agreed. Changing it to "full caster" now when the post specifically said a party full of wizards is admitting a party full of wizards can't do it. Had it only said a party of full casters, I may have agreed, 10 point buy is hard, but battle clerics are pretty solid at low level, or druids or alchemists. . . I wonder, how hard would this even be for 4 dhampir negative energy channeling clerics.

Refusal to limit myself even further, while under yet more ridiculous handicaps, is not admittance of defeat. 1st level is already the absolute weakest point for spellcasters, so being forced to use only a single class is yet another handicap on a combat that isn't going to reflect spellcasters at their strongest anyways.

So you made a claim that you now say is ridiculous. I chose 1st level because if your uberwizards can't make it past 1st level, then no other level matters. You claimed that they could handle half a dozen CR +2 encounters consecutively, regularly.

I'll even be nice and post the six encounters before you create your builds if you would like.

Uh, what? no other level than 1st matters? I don't think you understand exactly what I'm saying. First level is the least indicative of how the rest of the game plays, since at that level there are so few hit points and resources in general to utilize that nearly every combat is a game of rocket tag. I would actually say that there is no level less important than 1st for the purposes of. . . Well, anything.

Bob_Loblaw wrote:

Nope. You claimed that a party of wizards at 10 point buy can handle half a dozen CR +2 encounters with ease. I want to see it. I've already selected the 6 encounters. They are nothing special. Certainly nothing out of the ordinary (no customized or template creatures for example). They are straight out of the Bestiary and the Core Rule Book.

Agreed. Changing it to "full caster" now when the post specifically said a party full of wizards is admitting a party full of wizards can't do it. Had it only said a party of full casters, I may have agreed, 10 point buy is hard, but battle clerics are pretty solid at low level, or druids or alchemists. . . I wonder, how hard would this even be for 4 dhampir negative energy channeling clerics.

Refusal to limit myself even further, while under yet more ridiculous handicaps, is not admittance of defeat. 1st level is already the absolute weakest point for spellcasters, so being forced to use only a single class is yet another handicap on a combat that isn't going to reflect spellcasters at their strongest anyways.

Wish: Your dead. :)

Now, where are all those wonderful feats/abilities/spells from? I recognize some, but not all of them and I want to know.

Unfortunately, wish doesn't work that way.

Most of those feats and spells are are from 3.5, and I really can't remember most of the source books. Races of the Dragon, Book of Exalted Deeds, Tome of Battle, Ebberon Campaign Setting, and more are in there. Bard love is spread out.

Divergent wrote:

Alright, sure. I don't have much time now, but I'll post up the characters, and even run the challenges, tomorrow. After I do so, I would like to see you create a party of all non-spellcasters that can take on 6 CR 3 encounters in one day.

You don't get to pick the challenges. You're the player :) The GM gets to pick the challenges, and the order. Since I threw down the gauntlet, I'm the GM.

While I am against dump stats, I know that you've only got one choice: you need them. So that we stick to the concept of this thread, why not make sure they are all the same class. Personally, I don't mind but I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I already have.

I will make sure that the encounters are reasonable, using only the Bestiary and the CRB. I have already chosen them but I am not posting them because I don't want you to build to those encounters.

Alright. I will concede to your DMing, provided I can choose separate classes. I don't really care about this thread, and the point isn't to prove that one class can do this, but that any full spellcaster can.

Alright, sure. I don't have much time now, but I'll post up the characters, and even run the challenges, tomorrow. After I do so, I would like to see you create a party of all non-spellcasters that can take on 6 CR 3 encounters in one day.

Divergent wrote:

Trikk wrote:

cranewings wrote:

Pfft, whatever. Pathfinder is a cake walk. If you play it raw a party of 10 point buy fighters and rogues can wreck half a dozen CR +2 encounters in a day. It isn't a hard game by the book.

As the GM, the fact that I kill someone about once a month owes more to the fact that almost every session they have at least one CR +4 fight or worse.

B!#@%&#&. If your party survives half a dozen APL+2 encounters per day then the GM is holding back. There is no way, no math, to support them doing that.

By the book, they would be out of resources halfway through and party members would die in the last encounters (if not before that).

10 point buy on top of that? Yeah, good luck with low to-hit, low defenses and low hit points.

A party of wizards (or any full casters) could take that with ease, including with only 10 point buy.

I'm going to have to quote Trikk:

Quote:

B&@+#%%%. If your party survives half a dozen APL+2 encounters per day then the GM is holding back. There is no way, no math, to support them doing that.

By the book, they would be out of resources halfway through and party members would die in the last encounters (if not before that).

10 point buy on top of that? Yeah, good luck with low to-hit, low defenses and low hit points.

It doesn't change. The only possible ways for that to happen is for the GM to play with kid gloves or to not understand the rules, or both.

Nope. All it requires is that the players understand exactly what they are capable of. Not that I expect you to agree; this board is notoriously low-op. Irregardless, a party of wizards is mathematically capable of defeating opponents far in excess of what any other class is able to. It's simple math, as you say.

cranewings wrote:

Pfft, whatever. Pathfinder is a cake walk. If you play it raw a party of 10 point buy fighters and rogues can wreck half a dozen CR +2 encounters in a day. It isn't a hard game by the book.

As the GM, the fact that I kill someone about once a month owes more to the fact that almost every session they have at least one CR +4 fight or worse.

B!#@%&#&. If your party survives half a dozen APL+2 encounters per day then the GM is holding back. There is no way, no math, to support them doing that.

By the book, they would be out of resources halfway through and party members would die in the last encounters (if not before that).

10 point buy on top of that? Yeah, good luck with low to-hit, low defenses and low hit points.

A party of wizards (or any full casters) could take that with ease, including with only 10 point buy.

(Synthesist) Summoner 20// (Dawnflower Dervish) Bard 4/ Warblade 16.

Race: Silverbrow Human (for the Dragonblood subtype).

Feats:
Flaw- Dragonfire Inspiration
1st- Multiweapon Fighting
Human- Extra Performance
3rd- Song of the White Raven
5th- Words of Creation
7th- Improved Multiweapon Fighting
9th- Song of the Heart
11th- Greater Multiweapon Fighting
13th- Experimental Spellcaster (Accelerate)
15th- Whatever
17th- Whatever
19th- Whatever

Warblade Bonus Feats: Whatever.

All of your Eidolons evolution points should be spent on gaining more and more arms, except at level 8, when you should increase your size to large. All of your arms should be wielding masterwork kukris, ignore magic weapons.

The Dragonfire Inspiration (which requires the Dragonblood subtype) feat turns all of your +x's from the Bards Inspire Courage into +xd6's of extra damage on every attack you make. The Dawnflower Dervish archetype doubles your Inspire Courage bonus, but at the price that it only applies to you. Song of the Heart increases your Inspire Courage by another +1, and Words of Creation doubles the resulting score. Song of the White Raven makes your Bard and Warblade levels stack for determining your effective bard level for Inspire Courage. This results in you getting +20d6 damage to every attack you make.

The Accelerate wordspell allows you to gain an extra move action every turn for several rounds, and is only a 2nd level spell.

The Warblade levels are there so that you can gain two particular maneuvers; White Raven Tactics (which allows you to gain an extra turn as a swift action), and Time Stands Still (which allows you to take two full attacks at once).

So, your combat rounds would look like this.
1st Round- Cast Accelerate (standard action), begin Bardic Performance (move Action), initiate White Raven Tactics (swift action).

2nd Round (gained with White Raven Tactics)- Move towards enemy (extra move action), initiate Time Stands Still (full-round action).

You get 146 attacks, each with +20d6 bonus damage.

Top that.

This has all already been done.

You'll want to check this out; http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222007

Dips are not inherently cheesy, regardless of number. Cheese is when you use vague wordings and shaky rules interpretations to 'cheat' at the game. Otherwise, as long as you are aiding the team and holding your power back for the times it is truly needed, so as not to overshadow your team, most levels of optimization can work well together.

I think the real problem with the Fighter is that the designers decided that they would be stuck in 'gritty' fantasy mode for all their levels, while wizards and other spellcasters were catapulted into high fantasy from level 1. Although high level fighters are indeed capable of fantastic deeds, mainly based around the HP system, they don't really imitate truly heroic characters, such as Hercules, Achilles, or Gilgamesh. They're Conan. Wizards, on the other hand, are supposed to be Merlin and Gandalf, and they do it even better than they were supposed to.

Or you could just, you know, get pounce, charge, and draw all your weapons as a free action.

I allow pretty much everything 3x in my games; I prefer games where you don't need to police your players to ensure balance, and that's difficult with PF only.

TarkXT wrote:

Andy Ferguson wrote:

Someone should come up with a 20th level monk build and see what it looks like.

I'll work on a Sohei at some point. The more I look at them the more they seem to be precisely what's needed.

The initiative boost, ki pool and flurrying with better weapons seems sweet. Tetori looks pretty hot too, the ability to grapple a mage to death, no matter what they do is pretty awesome, it's a shame you can't combine it with Maneuver Master.

It's also a shame you would never get any wizard in a grapple to begin with. . .

Wizards should be able to do all the things they can now, but not all at once. As in, no wizard should have more than one school of arcane magic to use. Boom, problem solved.

. . .

My issue is not that they aren't superhuman, they clearly are, just that they aren't superhuman enough. At high levels a fighter should be the equivalent of a hero like Hercules or Gilgamesh, able to strangle a whirlwind or lift the top off a mountain. Without being able to affect the narrative flow of the game in such a manner, the melee characters are basically constrained to the same role, 'hit things.'

In before, 'but then they aren't fighters!'

At level 6 it's possible for a fighter to fall 150ft and walk away with no permanent damage, and carry a 100lb load for a full day and not be fatigued. So it would have to be E2 maybe. And you would have to ban rangers, paladins and barbarians.

Yes, you can do impossible things in e6, but thats true for even low-level characters. The fact is that the higher level you get, the more ridiculous the power level gets, so instead of pigeonholing martial characters into being 'mundane', they should develop into what are essentially superheroes as they level up.

How insightful. You probably also feel that melee characters are underpowered and casters need a nerf.

>Implying that casters do not need a nerf.

Seriously, I lol'd at this.

One of the things I don't like about the fighter class is the archetypes. It seems the game designers want to push fighters into very narrowly defined fighting styles; archer, brawler, crossbowman, etc. It seems to me that any fighter (other than a kensai) should be well on their way to mastering many fighting styles by 10th level. So, these archetypes don't feel right to me.

It seems that a better collection of archetypes would be built around the attributes; brute (str), duelist (dex), juggernaut (con), tactician (int), kensai (wis), gladiator (cha).

Now this, this sounds like an idea. Maybe at first level you would have a choice of class focus on one stat, and then you would gain physics shattering abilities based around the stat chosen as you level. So, for instance, a Dex fighter might get massive speed bonuses and the ability to leap ridiculous distances, while an endurance fighter might be able to survive atmospheric re-entry, onto a pit of lava.

Actually, I noticed a similar issue with the Skirmisher Ranger archetype. One of it's talents states that it allows you to make a jump check as a free action. Now, I've always assumed that jump checks were part of a move action, but the skill entry blatantly states that when making a jump check you move as far as you can jump, so my initial reaction was, 'wut? i can now reach relativistic speeds by jumping around the world?' Seems like a bit of an issue.

doctor_wu wrote:

I think mainly at really low levels like level 1 or 2 magic missle is useless as it does not do enough damage.

Ah, well, i beg to differ. In such low levels a magic missile may burn half the HP of most opponents and its a SURE hit, which is also very important at lower levels.

Not the first choice maybe, unless you want the opposing caster distracted, but when i doubt... magic missile. Even 2 or 3 Damage are nothing to scoff at, when the timings good. Great range, too.

Yes, at level 1 2-3 damage is fine- but casting Sleep and completely removing 4 enemies from the battle is much better.

BARBARIAN FLUFF AM GENERALLY THAT BARBARIAN RAISED BY MAN WITH CAPE AND AMAZING SUNGLASSES. AND NO SHIRT. AM NEVER NEED FOR SHIRT. THIS MAN AM TEACHING BARBARIAN HOW TO BE LANCE THAT AM PIERCE HEAVENS, AND HOW TO SMASH ANYTHING THAT AM MOVING. THANKS TO MAN WITH MIGHTYFINE CAPE AND AMAZING SUNGLASSES, BARBARIAN AM BECOME SUPERPOWERFUL.

THEN SOME GUY ON INTERNETS AM SAYING CASTYS AM NEVER LOSE. BARBARIAN HAVE NEW GOAL: SMASH MANY CASTYS.

AND BATTY BAT AM TOTALLY A BAT. HAS WINGS. FLIES. SEES INVISIBLE STUFF WITH... SENSES. IT AM BATTY BAT AS SURE AS BARBARIAN AM NOT BATTY BAT.

ALSO IT AM BREATHING HOT DEATH ON ENEMIES. BATTY BAT AM GOOD AT BEING BATTY BAT.

. . .

Atarlost wrote:

And now we have to question why any GM would ever allow a PC a dragon cohort and then let him get the drop on someone as obviously important as a 20th level anything in an environment where his cohort can be present, and give the caster an 18th level cohort.

If the caster knows the duration on his own time stop so he can time delayed blast fireballs to trigger the instant it drops that's 4-16 DBFs metamagiced into a grab bag of elements, and because a level 18 cohort can also cast level 9 spells another 4-16 DBFs. Possibly the 20th level caster is a sorceror to max his charisma for leadership.

it's only a CR10 dragon. but i don't think a superstitious magic hating barbarian would want a mount that uses magic. or use a boatload of magical bling.

Well, you don't need to fluff it as your barbarian being suspicious of magic. He could just be innately resilient to magic, or blessed by the spirits of his tribe, or he's just that cool. Plenty of ways to get around the unfortunate name.

Jason, I did not think AM BARBARIAN could get any more awesome.

Then you put him on a freaking dragon.

...I love you, man.

Hey, wait, wait, wait.

CR 10 = a cohort level of 18? Where is this stated? I always thought if I wanted a cohort I could just go with CR= to 2 below the players.

I've read a number of threads where people state that blasters are underpowered because their damage can't keep up with hit dice progressions.

This has been proven false a number of times when a blaster is built properly.

Having lost that round, many "blaster-haters" decry such builds as being FAR too focused and requiring FAR too many resources, a point they believe to be in their favor since other spellcasting styles (summoning God-wizarding, battlefield control, buffing/debuffing, save or die, etc.) require far less investment--in fact, almost none at all.

Well, I'm here to show that, such people have lost that argument as well for the very reason they think it won them their argument:

If I can build an effective blaster with with an intense amount of investment...and can build a summoning, save or die, buffing/debuffing, battlefield controlling, god-wizard with little to no investment...than it stands to reason that I should be able to do both at once with the same character, shouldn't it?

After all, save or dies work well, so long as I have decent save DCs (which I will as I have only one primary ability score), summoning is amazing all by itself, battlefield control only requires knowledge on how best to use it, buffing/debuffing are usually automatically successful, etc.

However, a wizard who doesn't build for blasting CAN'T blast worth a damn.

Which do you think is better? A god-wizard? Or a god-wizard that can also blast really, really well? Logic (and the tier system) dictates that the versatile spellcaster capable of doing more is the more powerful character.

Still, I'll let you decide for yourselves.

The thing is you don't need to focus your build onto doing damage, as there are other people that can do damage while you spend your actions in a more fruitful way. That's what summons are for.

Divergent wrote:

Azten wrote:

Blasphemy! It sounds like you are saying that the classes were made to work together to cover each other's weaknesses!

Well, it was supposed to work that way, it just didn't pan out.

Also, in response to the whole, 'barbarian is immune to magic' thing.

-Greater Invisibility
-Enervation
-Dimension Door/Blink/Teleport

Wizard wins.

It's been established that the barbarian has that pendant that absorbs negative levels and grants sr. and a 28 touch ac without including dexterity. And a dire bat/gem of true seeing combo.

Honestly, the tornado is the best answer, and even that only killed the bat.

Oh, alright.

First Round:
-Greater Invisibility
-Quickened Dimension Door

Second Round:
-Use Wand of Greater Dispel Magic

Third Round:
-Enervation
-Quickened Dimension Door

Blasphemy! It sounds like you are saying that the classes were made to work together to cover each other's weaknesses!

Well, it was supposed to work that way, it just didn't pan out.

Also, in response to the whole, 'barbarian is immune to magic' thing.

-Greater Invisibility
-Enervation
-Dimension Door/Blink/Teleport

Wizard wins.

Divergent wrote:

You know, I think this thread has been quite enlightening.

Cool

Divergent wrote:

When an unbuffed Wizard (pretty much the weakest he's going to get)

No one said the wizard has to be unbuffed, though you are right, its pretty easy for a wizard to be unprepared which makes him pretty weak.

Right, easy to be caught unprepared when you yourself specified that the fight just happens spontaneously. No Wizard in an actual game is going to be caught so unawares, mostly because he isn't on the same plane.

Divergent wrote:

faces a pre-buffed melee'r who is already close enough to charge him during his turn

He activated rage, and has a decent charge radius.

Yeah, and permanent true-seeing cast on him by some friendly NPC, a Dire Bat companion, whatever else he feels like he needs. . .

Divergent wrote:

and is specifically designed to negate casters,

He's specifically designed to not suck. That happens to help against casters, but he's solid against non-casters as well.

No, I'm seeing a pretty definitive thing where all his rage powers and most of his feats seem to have been spent on entirely anti-caster powers.

Divergent wrote:

the melee guy has a solid chance of winning.

Well seeing as you tried to just keep suggesting things until you got something right, without a grasp of the mechanics behind the idea's you were suggesting, it was lost when you started posting.

Oh, a personal attack, very mature. The thing is, the Wizard can do almost everything I posted (I'd still debate Gate not working during Time Stop) and more. And that's why he's so powerful, even comparative to the barb, because he can just up and decide to do something else if what he is doing isn't working. The Barb? Nope, hit it again, hope it doesn't have something with a higher CMD or DC or HP than you.

Divergent wrote:

And really, the fact that this is necessary says more about the relative levels of power between casters and melee than anything else I could.

That a barbarian is stronger in a fight that a wizard?

Nice try.

So...have we figured out who has the bigger penis yet?

Depends. The barb is naturally larger, but then the Wizard casts Enlarge Person and the issue gets muddy.

The descriptions of self telekinesis and flame jet indicate that the kineticist isn't actually flying but are instead pushing themselves through the air as an action each round.

This leads me to the conclusion that a caster cannot affect them with dispel magic as it's not a continuous effect that can be targeted on the caster's round and it can't be counterspelled since it's a spell-like ability.

So, is an anti-magic field the only spell that can end the self telekinesis/flame jet abiltiy?

I've got 2 babau demons about to attack the party. 1 just cast darkness on its weapon, letting the party see the globe of darkness around it. Combat begins next game session. What are some good babau tactics?

I've done a search on the subject and I can't find an answer. Is there an official answer to the question of whether you can use a touch spell that targets an object and place it on an attended object with a melee touch attack?

Specifically, I'm wondering if a creature can cast darkness and then use a melee touch attack to apply the darkness spell to an opposing PCs weapon or shield or some other object. If there's no official word on this, what would be the general consensus on this idea?

So I am trying to figure out how the intersection traps work in Xin-Grafar, the city on the Isle of Terror in the module The City of Golden Death. If you don't know the module I will explain how the traps are set up.

The avenues of the city, each 40 feet wide, are clear of debris making them the logical route to use to go through the city. There are 8 intersections in the city where 4 avenues meet in a cross formation. The area off of the avenues and intersections is the ruined city itself made up of collapsed buildings and destroyed furniture and the like.

The trap itself consists of a small canal, I'm thinking maybe an inch wide by an inch deep with runes carved into it. The canal runs across each avenue about 5 feet before entering the intersection. Due to that location, the canal also runs 5 feet into the ruins on either side of the avenue so that it can make a 90 degree turn and cross the next avenue that leads into the intersection. Once a party member crosses the canal, a summoning trap is activated with the creature appearing and attacking the person who set off the trap.

Could someone please explain to me why anybody would build a trap like this? Is there any party in existence that, even if they don't know for sure it's a trap, goes around it?
The trap only goes 5 ft into the ruins of the city. It costs the party 15 to 30 feet of extra movement to go around the intersection.

Now, my party is level 9 and I've been adapting the encounters as we've gone through this module. My plan is to make this a Summon Monster VIII spell so the Perception DC is 33. However, I've got one character who's got a +21 Perception check at this point. Even on the off chance that he doesn't make the Perception check to realize that this is a trap, the party would choose the safe option and just go around.

Wouldn't it be easy to cover the canals with an illusion? Maybe even add a Nondetection spell so that the trap is harder to find. This way no one knows the canals are there unless they actively search and succeed on a Perception check.

Sure, after the first intersection the party will go around ALL of the other intersections. That's okay. I may even choose to expand the area of the trap with each successive intersection or add traps around the edges of the trap area. But the way the trap is currently designed makes no sense to me at all.

So I am trying to figure out how the intersection traps work in Xin-Grafar, the city on the Isle of Terror in the module The City of Golden Death . If you don't know the module I will explain how the traps are set up.

The avenues of the city, each 40 feet wide, are clear of debris making them the logical route to use to go through the city. There are 8 intersections in the city where 4 avenues meet in a cross formation. The area off of the avenues and intersections is the ruined city itself made up of collapsed buildings and destroyed furniture and the like.

The trap itself consists of a small canal, I'm thinking maybe an inch wide by an inch deep with runes carved into it. The canal runs across each avenue about 5 feet before entering the intersection. Due to that location, the canal also runs 5 feet into the ruins on either side of the avenue so that it can make a 90 degree turn and cross the next avenue that leads into the intersection. Once a party member crosses the canal, a summoning trap is activated with the creature appearing and attacking the person who set off the trap.

Could someone please explain to me why anybody would build a trap like this? Is there any party in existence that, even if they don't know for sure it's a trap, goes around it?
The trap only goes 5 ft into the ruins of the city. It costs the party 15 to 30 feet of extra movement to go around the intersection.

Now, my party is level 9 and I've been adapting the encounters as we've gone through this module. My plan is to make this a Summon Monster VIII spell so the Perception DC is 33. However, I've got one character who's got a +21 Perception check at this point. Even on the off chance that he doesn't make the Perception check to realize that this is a trap, the party would choose the safe option and just go around.

Wouldn't it be easy to cover the canals with an illusion? Maybe even add a Nondetection spell so that the trap is harder to find. This way no one knows the canals are there unless they actively search and succeed on a Perception check.

Sure, after the first intersection the party will go around ALL of the other intersections. That's okay. I may even choose to expand the area of the trap with each successive intersection or add traps around the edges of the trap area. But the way the trap is currently designed makes no sense to me at all.

I don't know how to search for this, so if it's been asked and answered before, I apologize.

Theoretical situation.
There is a creature guarding a hallway, it doesn't matter what creature it is.
There is no way around it, the party has to go through it to get into the rest of the dungeon.
There is a door that the party has to go through in order to enter the hallway.
The creature is tasked, magically or by its superiors, to guard this hallway and attack anyone who enters this hallway.
The party, realizing that the creature is just going to attack them as soon as they enter the hallway, do not enter the hallway and instead take ranged attacks from outside the doors until the creature is dead.

In an alternate situation, the creature has ranged attacks and attacks them whenever they open the door but it has limited ranged attacks and the party works together so that one person closes the door after every ranged attack by the PCs.

How do you solve this? Is there some kind of warding spell that prevent the party from attacking the creature unless they are in the hallway? Let's say the creature is a construct; does that make it easier? Is there any difference if the hallway were a bridge instead?

Now, you are saying that the creature could charge and attack the party as soon as they begin attacking the creature. However, how far do you take that? The party keeps moving away through hallways, rooms, tunnels, caves, even outside, continuing to use ranged attacks. The creature never really gets close enough to use it's attacks.

I have read the details on the Isle of Terror in the City of Golden Death module. However, one detail it does not contain is how low the black clouds over the island sit. Are they a mile up? 2 miles? Closer?

Party composition: Level 9, Cleric with Good and Heal domains, Fighter (Shielded archetype), Alchemist/Master Chymist, Aether Kineticist.

The party is going to be crossing through a swamp. The alchemist and kineticist can fly so both of them may be flying as they go through the swamp. They are chasing after a cult and it's leader. My plan is for the party to come upon a battle scene, where there are dead cultists and dead creatures that inhabit the marsh. I could use lizardfolk but this party would just wipe them out and wouldn't be threatened. I'm going to use marsh giants since marsh giants are more likely to really put a scare into them, especially with the curse ability. So, while they are checking out the battle scene, the remaining marsh giants, 2 or 3 in number, are going to attack. I'm having a challenge figuring out how they are going to be able to sneak up on the party though. If the party sees them coming, the aether kineticist and the alchemist can do a lot of damage at range and the giants won't get much of a chance to attack before they are destroyed. I'm not very good at tactics, so I could really use some suggestions.

This is a campaign I'm running in Greyhawk. The party is Level 9 consisting of a cleric (Good and Life domains), a fighter (shielded fighter), an alchemist/Master Chymist, and an aether kineticist. The cleric had gotten to know a Good NPC that adventured solo. However, this NPC found a cursed magic item and, due to an alignment change when putting it on, joined an evil cult. The party is chasing this cult and they are about to come upon this NPC's body. The cult leader murdered the NPC in order to obtain the cursed magic item. I wanted to have a haunt on the NPC's body both to provide a challenge and to show what happened to the NPC. This is what I came up with. Did I do it right and will it be effective?

NPC Betrayed (CR 9)

XP 6,400; NE haunt (the interior of the tower, a circle of 40 foot radius); Caster Level 9th; Notice Perception DC 30 (Once the scenario showing the NPC's betrayal and murder begins, the party is transfixed watching it; hp 18; Trigger touch; Reset 1 hour
Effect
When the body of the NPC is touched, a ghostly scenario begins that shows their murder. When the NPC is murdered in the scenario, the person who triggered the effect takes 90 points of negative energy damage as if affected by the [i]harm[i] spell. The damage is reduced to 45 points of negative energy damage if the target makes a successful DC 19 Will save.
Destruction
The NPC's body must be buried and the bloodstained tiles that make up the floor of the ruined tower in which she was killed must be destroyed.

Okay, this is going to go a bit long. My apologies.

In the City of Greyhawk box set for AD&D 2e, there is a group detailed called the Shapechangers. They kidnap adventurers and newcomers and then polymorph them into other types of creatures, primarily elves, then butcher them. The reason they do this is for money. There is an alchemist at the Wizards Guild willing to pay for the special ingredients needed to make certain potions without asking questions. Remember this is AD&D 2e, where making any magical item usually involved a quest for special ingredients. Potions of giant strength required giant body parts. Potions of longevity required elf blood and body parts.

I really like the idea but I can't figure out how to get it to work under Pathfinder rules.

Potions of longevity aren't in the rules but I can add them in as an ultra rare item. The kidnapped creatures will be unconscious when they are polymorphed which, according to rules, means they are willing. As soon as the polymorph takes place, the kidnapped persons are killed so that the new form can be harvested for parts by the alchemist.

BUT

PoA does not say that the Type of the creature changes. I know it says somewhere that polymorph does NOT change the type of the creature being polymorphed.

Would it break the game in any way to houserule that Polymorph Any Object changes the Type of the creature being polymorphed?

Okay, this is going to go a bit long. My apologies.

In the City of Greyhawk box set for AD&D 2e, there is a group detailed called the Shape hangers. They kidnap adventurers and newcomers and then polymorph them into other types of creatures, primarily elves, then butcher them. The reason they do this is for money. There is an alchemist at the Wizards Guild willing to pay for the special ingredients needed to make certain potions without asking questions. Remember this is AD&D 2e, where making any magical item usually involved a quest for special ingredients. Potions of giant strength required giant body parts. Potions of longevity required elf blood and body parts.

I really like the idea but I can't figure out how to get it to work under Pathfinder rules.

Potions of longevity aren't in the rules but I can add them in as an ultra rare item. I could also say that Polymorph Any Object can be cast on unwilling targets as well as willing. Or they have a magic item that allows them to cast personal target spells on other targets and they use it for Alter Self.

BUT

I know the rules are only guidelines but I do prefer to stay within the rules if possible. Is there a way to make this work within the rules without resorting to house rules and home brew magic items?

I have been searching everywhere for answers to two questions and can't find them anywhere.

First, in #5-23, Cairn of Shadows, the agents are supposed to recover the shadow obelisk. However, as soon as they take it out of the cairn, it "fades away like smoke."

Then, in #6-02, Nigel uses the shadow obelisk to reshape and remake the Blakros Museum. Where did he get the obelisk if it faded away?

Second question. Are the powers of the obelisk actually detailed anywhere? I know about Nigel's use of it, obviously, and that Hamaria later uses it to send agents to the Shadow Realm but is there actually any detailed write up of what the shadow obelisk can do?

Okay, so this might be a bit of a specialized request and I know that it might not get much traction.

I am looking for an island adventure for around 10th level characters, although if I find the right adventure of a higher level I can always adjust either my campaign or the adventure.

However, I don't want just any island adventure. I need and island adventure that feels like something that an epic ancient group might have used in the ancient past.

Background: My campaign is set in the World of Greyhawk. I'm thinking of introducing and island that appears and disappears irregularly. It was once held by the Wind Dukes of Aaqa. There is an elven NPC that has visited there once about 100 years ago and is waiting for it to reappear so that she can return. My original idea was to use the City of Golden Death adventure and just adapt it for a higher level but that could be a pretty big undertaking.

However, if I can find a higher level island adventure that has an epic feel to it, I would consider doing that instead.

Does anyone have any suggestions, Paizo or 3pp?

Okay, one of my players wants to build a mercenaries guildhall. Using the Ultimate Campaign rules, we have figured out what rooms she wants and how much it will cost. She wants to hire as many construction teams as possible to build this as quickly as possible. I have figured out that she is building 23 rooms, but by combining rooms it would take 15 teams to build the building in the shortest time possible, which is 30 days. She is going to be building near a city of only 59,000.

My question is about cost. Do you think that a city this size would be able to easily provide 15 construction teams to build this building all at once? Do you think there would be any additional costs?

I know that a lot of this is up to me as the GM. However, I would like to know what others think in order to help shape my decision.

Besides The Penumbral Accords, what scenarios have the Onyx Alliance in them?

One of my players wants to build a guildhall for their mercenary company. He's taken the Leadership feat and will soon have a cohort and some followers. They are in a large city that generally has lots of adventurers.

He's calculated the cost of the building at about 8,000 gold using the room costs in UC. It's my understanding that this includes furniture, doors and windows and possibly the cost of the land as well.

This seems really cheap to me for such a big building. Okay, I know it's not going to be the 100,000 gold or so that it would have cost in AD&D 1e. I feel like we're missing something here that should make it more expensive. Is this correct?

If this calculation is correct, maybe I should just skip using the UC building rules and decide on my own how much it would cost. Have you found the UC building rules work really well for your campaign?

I am running a campaign where I am trying to use nothing but Pathfinder Society Scenarios for the adventures. This isn't a PFS campaign, it's just something we wanted to try. However, I am having to adapt the scenarios for higher level parties as we go through the campaign, currently at 8th level. I know, I could have picked something more level appropriate but I like the Blakros scenarios and I'm trying to use them to keep somewhat of a running campaign thread going.

Anyway, I have to adapt the Penumbral Accords to a level 8 party consisting of a Human Aether Kineticist, a Dwarf Fighter focusing on Shield Bashing, a Human Cleric focused on healing, and an Elf Alchemist going for the Master Chymist Prestige Class. We are not adventuring in Golarion but that doesn't change the adventure mechanics at all.

Here's my ideas so far.

Use a Mohrg with the Advanced template for the Skeletal Guardian in area 1

Use and Advanced Shadow Ice Golem for the Cold Storage Sentinel in area 2. Use the rules for Slick Ice from the Paizo Blog

Give Mazzel Gol 2 more levels of alchemist in area 3. Increase the strength of his magical ring and cloak to +2

Increase the number of guards to 4 and make them Slavers (fighter 2/rogue 2) from the GMG in area 4

Leave the shadow hound as is in area 5

Give Uthil Mak 2 assistants, perhaps Bladed Fists. Make Uthil Mak an unchained monk. Increase the strength of his magical bracers and cloak to +2 in area 7

Tactics. One of the guards in area 4 go and release the hound in area 5 when they are attacked. In area 7, the assistants will try to run interference so the Uthil Mak can complete the ritual.

Treasure. Other than the gear I have listed, I'm not increasing the treasure. The party, as mercenaries, is being awarded with a manor worth about 15,000 gold for doing this mission.

I wanted to put this out there to see if anyone had any better ideas for how to increase the challenges of this scenario.

The players entered a room with a gibbering mouther hiding behind some boxes on one side of the room and a black pudding on the ceiling on the other side of the room.
The room has a 15 foot ceiling. Theyy dealt with the gibbering mouther just fine. Since the black pudding only has a 10 foot reach, I figured that they would have to be directly underneath it in order for it to reach them from the ceiling. However, no one actually moved directly under it.

That's where we ended the session.

Should I have been rolling Perception checks for the players and a Stealth check for the black pudding? If I did that they would see it easily with its Dex of 1. Does it just naturally hide until it moves to attack? If I can't explain why they couldn't see it, I think my players may be upset.

GMs familiar with the kineticist, I need your help please!!!

I am running a campaign of non-official Pathfinder Society scenarios mixed with my own content and any other material that works. The party, elf alchemist, dwarf fighter, human cleric, human aether kineticist, is Level 6.

I'm trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong, like not giving out enough magic. The kineticist does (3d6+13)x1.5 damage without spending any burn, so he can do this all day, or more damage by spending some burn (he has 69 hit points to burn). The cleric, with his vicious mace, does 1d8+2d6+2 damage (taking 1d6 damage himself). The alchemist does 3d6+6 per bomb but is limited to 10 a day. The fighter does only 1d8+4 with his +1 longsword but can add +4 to damage with Power Attack.

As you can see, the kineticist does almost as much damage as the rest of the party combined.

As far as I can tell, the party shouldn't typically have +2 weapons yet so I can't see anything I should have been giving out but missed.

The kineticist's player has optimized his character but the alchemist kind of has as well. The cleric is optimized for healing. The fighter is a new player so is not optimized at all.

Is the kineticist just that much more powerful than other classes? Does it balance well only if I was running an Occult campaign? If it doesn't balance well, I may have to ask the player to retire the character, which may cause him to quit.

I am going to be running an adventure next game session where the characters are going to be covering their mouths with scarves in order to avoid breathing in a magical mist. I'm wondering what would happen when it comes to swallowing potions and other liquids though. Do I make them pull the scarves down, exposing themselves to the mist, when they need to do this or do I let them drink potions through the scarf?

Sadly, I will be unable to attend. My ticket is on the table by the ballroom.

Okay, so that was a long-winded subject but this is going to take a bit of explaining anyway.

I have been gaming for a long time. I started with D&D 1e in 1983, DMed more than played lots of 2e and 3.0/3.5 and in 2014 started GMing a Pathfinder home game.

Two and a half years ago, I organized and ran 3 PFS scenarios at the community centre where I lived. Those sessions are reported. Unfortunately, the only people who showed up to play were the players from my home game. That, plus new work commitments, led me to shutting it down.

Jump ahead to now. I have tickets to PaizoCon, which will be my first con of any type ever. I have signed up for multiple PFS scenarios, since I almost never get to just play instead of GM. I have 3 XP from those PFS scenarios I mentioned above. I have the PFS Guide and own a copy of HeroLab. I can build a 1st level character quite easily and I can even level him to 2nd level (due to the 3 XP from GMing, but correct me if I'm wrong). I have a chronicle sheet from each of those PFS sessions as well as the starting character chronicle sheet.

My challenge is with equipment. How do I go about getting him better equipment?

Also, is there anything I should know or bring going into PaizoCon that might be something newbies don't think of?

Thank you all for any assistance you can provide.

My schedule is telling me to bring a character but the write up says pregens are provided. Which one is correct?

I am running "The Automatic Hound" from Dungeon #148 for a group of 4 3rd-level PCs. I found that converting the runehound (the first creature encountered) and the stained glass golem (the second creature encountered) wasn't hard. However, the spirit of the wild, the end encounter, was a challenge, especially since my party will still be 3rd level for that encounter and the original is CR 6. Here is my conversion. I'd sure like some opinions, and suggestions if you have any.

SPIRIT OF THE WILD
CR 5
XP 1,600
CN Large outsider (chaotic, extraplanar)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7
AC 18 (+1 Dex, +8 natural, -1 size), touch 10, flat-footed 17
hp 45 (6d10+12)
Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +1
Resistance fire 5/acid 5/cold 5/lightning 5
Spd 40 ft.
Melee 2 claws +11 (ld6+5 plus grab) and bite +8 (1d8+5)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks pounce, rake (2 claws +11 (1d6+5), roar
Special Qualities amorphous, manifest
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 10, Cha 14
BAB +6; CMB +11 (+15 grapple); CMD 24
Feats Improved Natural Attack (claw), Multiattack
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +10, Perception +7, Stealth +7, Survival +6, Swim +10
Amorphous (Ex) A spirit of the wild is not subject to critical hits.
Grab (Ex) If a spirit of the wild hits with a claw, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. The spirit of the wild has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use its claw to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold or it can use its rake attack.
Manifest (Su) Each round as a free action, a spirit of the wild may manifest one of the following traits. Manifesting a new trait replaces the previous one. Possible traits include: shell or chitin (+2 enhancement bonus to its natural armor), tentacles or pseudopods (+4 competence bonus on CMB), extra legs (5-foot bonus to its base land speed), and antennae (+2 competence bonus on Perception checks)
Pounce (Ex) If a spirit of the wild charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including rake attack.
Rake (Ex) A spirit of the wild can use its two claw attacks against a grappled foe but must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.
Roar (Ex) Once a day, as a standard action, a spirit of the wild may unleash a scream that resounds on every note of the audible spectrum. All creatures within 60 feet must succeed on a DC 15 Will save or be stunned for ld4 rounds. Creatures that save successfully are immune to this spirit of the wild's roar for 24 hours. This is a sonic mind-affecting effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.

So, my wife took a 2 week vacation recently and she's encouraged me to do some kind of solo vacation as well. Now, this would be in addition to our regular vacation with our twin 6 year olds plus it needs to be on a week I'm off work (I work 2 weeks on 1 week off). One thing I really want to do is go to a convention. I'm 46 years old (been playing D&D and now Pathfinder on and off for 35 years) and I've never been to a convention partly because of where I live. Google Fort St. John and you will see how far I am from a major city. However, for my first convention I'm willing to fly almost anywhere in North America. There are small conventions near me but the only ones I know of are lacking in tabletop gaming. I know this is a matter of opinion but what do you feel would be a good first time convention for a guy like me?

In our game session last night, I realized that a harpy's captivating song power, in the right situation, is basically a TPK power. Let me explain.

The party was trying to retake a treehouse from some harpies that had taken it over. The treehouse was built in rings of rooms around the huge tree. The party, going at night, got to the second set of rings, went inside and were attacked by 6 harpies (2 adults and 4 young harpies). The party of three defeated most of them and the last remaining young harpy used her captivating song, getting two of the characters captivated, and was going to flee to warn her leader. As she flew out the entry, I was going to have her continue to use her song until I realized something. If she just flew a hundred feet or so away in circles, the two captivated characters would basically walk off the edge of the treehouse (I know they would get a second save first) and plummet to their death 180 feet below.

My point is, why wouldn't harpies do this all the time. Harpies tend to live in groups. All they have to do is sing and fly out so the captivated characters have to walk off a cliff or cross a river or lake and, chances are, most of the party is just dead. Not much fun. Used properly, harpies seem like more than just a CR 4 monster.

If the harpies in my game had used their power properly, they would all have used their captivating song, probably getting all the party captivated (its tough to make all 6 saving throws), and flying out off the treehouse so the party walked out to fall to their death. TPK.

What's the general opinion on this?

I own the Core Rulebook but I am considering getting other books that are used in Shattered Star (I'm the GM). Where is the Ultimate Combat or Gamemastery Guide used in Shattered Star?

(Pathfinder) Briefly, I need help designing an intelligent weapon that gets more powerful as the wielder levels up.

In detail, one of my players is a CN cleric of Gozreh. He has made it clear that he seeks power at any cost. Last game session, the party recovered a +1 frost trident and he claimed it. My thought was to make it an intelligent weapon devoted to the demon Dagon that will increase in power as the cleric levels up. Eventually, sooner rather than later, the weapon will start trying to bring the cleric over to worship and service to Dagon in return for promises of great power. However, right now all the cleric knows is that it's a +1 frost trident that allows him to understand Aklo. The weapon's background is going to be relatively unknown to the surface world as it has been primarily in possession of underwater dwellers for the last 10,000 years. It's purpose is to destroy sin (which I think fits in with the Shattered Star Adventure Path that I am DMing) but what the weapon and Dagon won't reveal is that this means destruction of every sentient being on Golarion.

Does anyone have suggestions how to make an intelligent weapon that does this?

In the Hanging Manse, area A10 (the parlor with the tupilaq), the description of the room says
"...a number of framed schematic drawings."

For the Treasure section of that room, the text reads
"The schematic drawings range from revelatory illustrations regarding the construction of a dangerous, fire-bellied guardian called a tophet to partial instructions for building an Alkenstar firearm. Each of these schematics is worth 2,000 gp to the right buyer."

I'm trying to figure out how many schematics there should be and, better yet, what they are all schematics of. What did you all do in your campaign?

There is a player in my home game that wants to become evil and worship an evil god. I want to give him the chance to roleplay this but still give him a reason to continue with the Shattered Star Adventure Path that I am GMing.

Here's my premise. Cleric devoted to Gozreh finds a magic item (trident or amulet, I think). The item gradually reveals both its intelligence and its powers to the cleric as he becomes more powerful. The item, named Shala, the Redeeming Wave, is devoted to Dagon, the demon lord of the sea and sea monsters. Over time, the item will explain to the cleric that Dagon wants to rid the world of sin, thus giving the cleric a reason to continue the Adventure Path quest (collect the Shards of Sin, assemble them into a powerful artifact that can be used to any Runelords, who represent sin, that may appear) after making a pact with and then worshipping Dagon. Neither the item nor Dagon reveals that Dagon wants to achieve his goal by scouring the world of all sentient life. Dagon, as a former qlippoth, seeks both an end to all demons and a means to rid himself of the sins he has absorbed that changed him into a demon lord.

I'm trying to decide what powers Shala has. Some type of water breathing and swimming ability seems right. Maybe fire resistance as well. Other than that I'm not sure, partly because there are so many. He will be 7th level when he gets the item. I'm thinking that he will get one power as soon as he possesses the item and that the powers will be revealed to him at levels 8, 12, 16 and 20.

Does this sound okay or overpowered to anyone? Does anyone have a suggestion for powers at those levels that relates to Dagon, the sea, or the destruction of life?

I am running the Shattered Star Adventure Path. The party is currently 6th level, but they are near the end of this chapter and should be 7th level when they complete this part of the quest.

One of my players is a Chaotic Neutral cleric of Gozreh. He has already indicated that he has or will have evil tendencies. Almost every other character is Chaotic Neutral so I don't think an evil character in the group would cause conflict.

At the end of this chapter, I would like to give this player an intelligent magic item. The character uses either a rapier or trident, but it could be any iten. I would like this item to have some Thassilonian history, partly due to the nature of the Adventure Path and partly due to the character's interest in Thassilonian history. While the current chapter focuses on Sorshen, the weapon could be associated with any Runelord. The item will slowly convert him to evil, possibly Neutral Evil. Lastly, I would like it to be something he can carry to the end of the Adventure Path.

One idea I have had is that the item belonged to one of the Runelords, but was taken by Sorshen. It has languished for 10,000 years without being used. Whomever picks up the item won't even know it's intelligent at first because it keeps quiet, determining if it's new holder is worth communicating with. It's goal would be to find out about this new world at first. After realizing that the Runelords are gone, it may change its goals but that will depend on the character and how the campaign proceeds.

I need some help though. Does this sound like a good idea? What item would it be? What powers would it have?

So, here's the situation. I want to give one of my players an intelligent magic item. Most of the party is Chaotic Neutral, including him, but his character, a cleric of Gozreh, has evil tendencies and I think he wants to play an evil character. I'm thinking that an intelligent magic item would be a good plot device to push him towards evil. I would also like it to be a Thassilonian weapon, both because of the nature of the Adventure Path and because his character has an interest in Thassilonian history, especially religious Thassilonian history. I don't have any specific ideas for power level or powers yet so any and all ideas would be welcome. He won't be getting this item for a few weeks so I have a fair amount of time to develop it. I'm hoping to build an item that could potentially be with him all the way to the end of the Adventure Path. Currently, they are finishing Curse of the Lady's Light, probably in 2 or 3 game sessions (we play once a month) and they are 6th level, probably 7th when the adventure ends. Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas?

Let's take the trait Convincing Liar as an example. "You gain a +1 trait bonus on Bluff or Intimidate checks and one of these skills (your choice) is a class skill for you."

Is it RAW somewhere, or just RAI, that the bonus and the class skill choice have to be the same? For example, could a character get a +1 bonus to Intimate and get Bluff as a class skill?

If I was to buy a Pawns box, what would you say would be the best box to buy for PFS use besides the Bestiary Box, which I own?

So, I'm just preparing things for the next game session which will possibly include an encounter with Chanukrah. One thing I can't figure out though is why she has charm person prepared on her spell list. The way her tactics are described, she's not going to have a chance to use that spell. Has anyone swapped that spell out for something else and, if so, what spell did you swap it out for?

This will probably be a long explanation followed by my question.

One of the players in my game has opted to retire her current character in favor of a new character. The reason why doesn't really matter for purposes of this question. I already have a plan for her current character to leave. However, the party is deep in the dungeon of their current adventure for the Pathfinder Society with no plans to leave so they can't just bring her new character into the group at the Pathfinder Lodge. Two game sessions ago, I introduced 2 new characters who were just exploring the dungeon so that's out. There's no place that it makes sense for her to be a prisoner. There's no other entrance or exit. To make things more difficult, she's got 2 wolf companions. Does anyone have any ideas on how to introduce her new character, which is an aasimar/natural werewolf druid with 2 wolf companions?

I have a player that wishes to play a werewolf. Now, I know that some people feel that a werewolf PC is overpowered. I'm not interested in debating that subject. I would like to know what source has the information on adding a lycanthrope template. I have found information that says the PC gets a +2 bonus to Wisdom, low-light vision and scent in their humanoid form as well as +2 to Strength and Constitution after getting the best ability scores of their humanoid form or wolf form and DR 5/silver in hybrid form. What source does this come from?

Hi everyone. In a few weeks, I'm planning to run my first ever Pathfinder Society scenario. Let me explain my situation.

I'm doing a drop-in game event that I hope to do every month at the local community centre. This month I ran the We Be Goblins module and everyone seemed to have a good time. Next month however, and hopefully every month following that, I'd like to DM a Pathfinder Society scenario.

Now, I have never even played in a Pathfinder Society scenario, but I have lots of experience with role playing in general (30 years), and, as far as Pathfinder is concerned, have run a semi-monthly Pathfinder campaign for two years.

As for players, in my small community I think don't anyone is familiar with the Pathfinder Society, although we have a fair number of Pathfinder players.

So, what do all of you think would be the best scenario to run for both players new to role playing and players with some role playing experience but new to Pathfinder Society?

I tried to do a Google search on this but came up empty. Do you award experience points for encounters that the party sees but deliberately avoids?

So, one of the players in my campaign is playing a sorcerer. This is the first time she's played an RPG. Recently, I noticed that she is way behind some other players in terms of magic items and other gear. I have decided to place one or two magic items just for her in the Adventure Path we are playing. However, I'm not sure what magic item or items to give her. She is about 4,000 to 5,000 gp worth of items behind the rest of the group, currently fourth-level, and only has a Cloak of Resistance and a Charm Person wand. I would really appreciate suggestions on what 1 or 2 magic items to place for her.

I want to make up some index cards for the magic items that the party finds during the course of the Adventure Path we are doing. However it's not always easy to come up with some way to describe the magic item and make it unique. I was wondering if anybody out there knows of a good website or a good product that helps with the descriptive text for magic items.

I am terrible at coming up with good names, whether its during a game session or during preparation. Plus, I would like to be consistent with the other names that Paizo uses for Golarion since we are playing through the Shattered Star Adventure Path. Could anyone recommend either products or apps or websites that they find really useful for generating names?

So, in our current campaign, the city has a large market area. One of the players hit upon the idea of setting up a stall in the market to sell the artifacts, relics and gems and get full value rather than the typical 50%. I'm trying to figure out how much it would cost to do this. I've tried looking at the Downtime rules but they don't seem to cover this. Does anyone have a suggestion?

I have read a couple of posts here that say the Skill Point gained from the scarlet and blue ioun stone (due to the +2 INT bonus) is automatically put into Knowledge (History). I don't see this in the Shards of Sin adventure anywhere. Where does this information come from? Also, if the player that takes the Shard of Pride (and the ioun stone) already has ranks in Knowledge (History), what happens to those skill points?

My players have, so far, been short on note-taking and drawing and mapping.

Has anyone had this issue with their players? What did you do?

One thing I thought of could be that Sheila assigns a scribe to go with the party, someone whom she knows will take notes. The Players Guide has a scribe at the end, Andel Gesseran. Has anyone used him in their campaign? If so, how did it work out?

So, I have a player in my campaign that chose to take a level in druid. He wants to get an animal companion as soon as he can complete the 24-hour ritual. My question is, what terrain is around Magnimar so I can let him know what animals he could possibly get as a companion?

So, I bought AEG's Toolbox many years ago when I was DMing D&D 3.5. Somewhere in the 7 moves since then I have lost the book. Now that I'm back DMing again, I thought I would see about buying another copy but it appears to be out of print. Does anyone know of a book that does the same kind of thing but is still in print?

This is my DM's perspective of my campaign. I am posting this to encourage advice to improve my game. While I have DMed for a long time, I am new to Pathfinder and am always open to suggestions. Please let me know if you read this, as I will stop posting if no one is reading.

Ok. Starting roll call

Katri - elf paladin of Torag, raised by dwarfs after family killed, from the Five Kings Mts, travelling to Magnimar to deliver important papers to an unofficial Highhelm representative there, played by someone experienced with rpgs but new to Pathfinder
Zertonis - elf ranger from the Mierani Forest, his parents were killed by a dragon, he and his sibling traveled to Kyonin after his parents death and he is now travelling to Magnimar seeking adventure, new to rpgs
Rorian - gnome cleric of Sarenrae, from Taldor, has played some D&D 3.5
Degnar - dwarf monk from Janderhoff, believer in Lissala and her seven virtues of rule, has visited Xin-Shalast after its discovery with his mentor, student of Thassilonian history, travelling to Magnimar to meet someone about a Lissalan idol, has played some D&D 3.5
Maddeva - half-elf sorcerer from Kyonin, adventuring seeking the father that raped her mother, travelling to Magnimar following rumors, new to rpgs
Tanaris - elf ranger from Kyonin, travelling to Magnimar in search of adventure, has played some Pathfinder

We are starting with the Murder’s Mark module for three reasons. First, to let the new players have an adventure that is not too combat-heavy. Second, since there are so many inexperienced players, I think they will need to be a little ahead of the curve for the campaign. Third, I feel that they need some kind of notoriety for Sheila Heidmarch to recruit them out of all the adventurers in Magnimar. Katri and Zertonis are travelling with the same caravan so they already know each other.

They arrive in Ilsurian and stay the night. I have a group of young players here and it shows sometimes, like now when most of them want to “go drinking”. There is nothing wrong with that, but experienced players tend to have gotten beyond that. I suspect I am going to have to stat up a few bar patrons for the inevitable bar fights.

The next day they head out to the carnival that is on the edge of town, for their own reasons. I tried to give them plenty of opportunities to play carnival games but they mostly did not want any of it. They did go to the zoo and, even though they were pretty sure that the “baby dragon” was not really a dragon, none of them have ever seen a dragon to be sure. After that they played a few carnival games, with Katri winning the “Queen of the Carnival” crown, then just waited by the sphinx tent until the sphinx appeared. Katri did detect evil on just about everyone was not really surprised by any evil she found. Later, she also did that with the sphinx with, understandably, no result. They all did take this time to introduce themselves to each other.

While waiting, the “baby dragon” breaks free. Due to some PCs deciding to do nonlethal damage, the lizard is knocked unconscious but not dead. It was very fast too, all finished in one round. The zoo-keeper shows up, his helpers haul the lizard away, and he rewards the PCs. The rest of the day is uneventful except for Degnar visiting the sphinx and asking questions every time she makes an appearance, and Maddeva trying to poke the sphinx and getting thrown out.

Next day, they are summoned to the carnival where Almara asks them to investigate the murder of a local pawnbroker to clear the good name of the carnival. Of course they accept. The module includes a few questions that a party might ask and how Almara would answer but this party doesn't ask anything. They go to talk to the sheriff. She tells them what happened and has a constable lead them to the spot where the body was found. Some good rolls and the party is able to determine that the “sphinx” tracks at the murder scene are fake. They then go to the dead man’s place of business and meet his widow.

The widow tells them that the body has been taken to the church to prepare it for burial. Some players want to check the body but they decide to investigate the shop, which was robbed and a guard killed after the murder of the pawnbroker. After a cursory examination of the main area, noting that some gems and jewelry were stolen, they head down to the vault. Katri is using detect evil on everything in sight and sees a skulk trying to sneak out. Everyone tries to deal nonlethal damage to the creature until Zertonis realizes that, in order to use his bow, he has to deal lethal damage. Unfortunately, he scores a critical hit. Fortunately, he does not kill her, although he comes close and would have done so under D&D 3.5 rules.

Taking the unconscious skulk, the party leaves. While leaing the vault, Degnar spots a trap door in the hall outside the vault, and they ask the widow to disarm it. She does so, and the party starts to proceed out. Degnar rolled a Perception check and heard someone crying. They determine its in the trap and they open it to find another skulk. I could have let them walk by without finding him, but I kinda wanted them to find him so I let them have a Perception check. They rescue him from his prison in the trap, and take both skulks to the sheriff. During the interrogation, they show how new they are to this, and miss asking a lot of questions that might have got them more information. The sheriff had to do some asking for them, just to reveal some important information. Noticing that the creatures are showing signs of addiction, Katri wishes she had the ability to remove disease.

The party returns to the carnival to inform Almara of what they found. Degnar realizes that they did not tell the sheriff about the false tracks. They return and inform the sheriff and she advises that, while this looks good for the carnival, it is not definite proof.

The rest of the day is uneventful, with Degnar visiting the sphinx during her every appearance and asking her questions, seemingly wanting to free her. Maddeva tries to sneak into the sphinx’s tent at one point, but she’s seen and barred from entering. They spend another night in Ilsurian, again “going drinking.”