DianaBlake's page

Alright, so some of your info is pretty vague so I'm mostly going to post my initial reactions and thoughts to what you have so far. Hopefully it'll open up some of the idea but, worst case scenario, it tells you exactly what direction you don't want to take things in.

How many points do they get each time and at what lvl?

This being the hard to find place it is and being as powerful as it has the potential to be I'm assuming you won't really have to worry about lower level PCs finding the place super early on so my initial thought is to use X amount of experience points per point granted.

Let's go with the level 10 to 11 idea. The difference in medium progression is 50,000 experience. Let's say 1 point for every 10k sacrificed. This will give them 5 points and return them to base xp for lvl 10. However, I would say that they cannot sacrifice that same 50k experience again after. Instead they would need to make their way to lvl 11 naturally and from there they can get to 12 and sacrifice the 65k between those two levels. That way you encourage your players to get out and play for what is effectively two levels each time they've made use of the library.

How many points will the new "stuff" cost? (+1 to atk/def will be pretty cheap but magical flight?)

Essentially, the easiest thing to do is treat the library as if it were allowing your PCs to enhance themselves in the same way that they would enhance their weapons or collect magical items. It's easier because you have a place to start in those enhancements and items themselves... For stuff like this, I like to utilize as many existing mechanics as possible. If rules already exist that are similar you'll face a lot less confusion from your players.

Since it seems like they can use points for almost anything let's start with the simple stuff like +1 to attack. If we were doing weapon enhancements you'd be looking at a couple thousand gold but here we're giving them a +1 for any weapon they pick up. While I'm assuming this will be a bonus similar to Weapon Focus and not like an actual magical enhancement it is still potentially so powerful I'd say it wouldn't be unreasonable to equate that bonus to 5x what you would pay for a magical equivalent on a single weapon. 10,000gp for 10,0000xp means they'd need to spend 1 point.

For bigger things let's, again, look at what you'd pay for an item that does something similar. In this case, Wings of Flying is a good substitute as they give the full effect of the fly spell and not just partial like the lesser form of the item. Cost to create the item is 27,000 gold pieces. If we use the same math as the +1 attack and multiply by five they'd need to sacrifice 135,000 experience to get enough points to gain permanent magical flight.

13.5 points seems like a lot but this will limit when players are able to get certain enhancements and ensure that they're using their points responsibly or at least, trying to think ahead. If you only allow them to sacrifice the experience they've gained once as I suggested then the total amount of points they can attain on medium track progression from level 10 to level 20 is about 350. (3,600,000 - 105,000 =3,495,000/10,000 = 349.5 points)

Doing it this way leaves things wide open for players to do almost anything they want while also giving you a standard to judge point price by. They could say... have the ability to magically disguise themselves at will for a mere 3 points. Or gain a single bane type for the same as a +1 bonus.

I would also suggest not letting your PCs "upgrade" enhancements they've already made to themselves without penalty or at all. For an example let's look at like: a +2 Belt of Giant Strength that with a cost of 2,000gp would cost a PC a mere 1 point. Later on they want to upgrade to +4 but argue that since they only paid 1 point for the +2 upgrade that they should be able to do the same and stack them. Just like with the magical item equivalent you would need to pay more for the higher enhancement. You can't just purchase the same item twice and have them stack. So, the belt of strength +4 would cost 4 points.

Players might also try to upgrade each of the three physical traits individually for a total cost of 3 points. Instead of allowing this I would limit them to the slot mechanic for equipment. This way you can't have the equivalent of three different belts on a PC and they'll need to instead look into using a template like the commonly used item: Belt of Physical Perfection that would cost them 4 points to enhance all 3 physical stats by +2 at once. But say, later on they want to go for a belt of +6 that would cost a PC 38.5 points. Instead of letting them take the original use of 4 points and having it roll over to the 38.5 point cost I would put a rule in place that if they change an existing enhancement that the points spent previously are lost and cannot be regained. The reason for this is that it will force them to think ahead and not use the points frivolously or situationally.

To limit just how powerful a player's attack abilities can get I would say to also treat them exactly as you would a magical weapon. Things like the item based enhancements like the Wings or Hat of Disguise won't affect their total but weapon and armor enhancements would be limited as they are already in the rules. No more than +10 and each subsequent enhancement costs more just as if you were upgrading a weapon or piece of armor. Same as with the belt example, changing or altering existing enhancement will lose the used points. This keeps the players from saying "Oh, we're going to go fight some fire giants so I'm going to get rid of my Bane aberrant and shocking enhancements and change them for bane giant and ice." as they'll essentially lose the previously spent points and limit their future effectiveness.

Do i have a set number of "stuff" they can gain or just leave it open?
Doing things based on equivalent items and enhancements leaves what kind of "stuff" is available pretty open to the players and depending on just how creative they get you can have your hands full. They could use the same rules and price points for creating unique magical items to create unique enhancements for themselves. Like your fighter gaining a taste of immortality by using the Magic Item Price Guidlines to figure out the cost of creating an enhancement based on an item with the Age Resistance spell and continuous effect.

The checks and balances of lost point for changed enhancements and limiting them to only a certain number of points they can ultimately achieve ensures that you won't have to deal with a mechanic that is too open ended and they won't have unlimited access to more and more "stuff" as time goes on.

I hope all of that made sense...

I'm building a new skill and associated abilities for my players. We're going to be in a dream reality where they'll have a bit more power to affect the world around them. I'm sure they'll find a way to really break it because that's what players do. Trying to do some damage control ahead of time so...how would you break this?

Dream Shaping:

Within the Realm of Dreams an entirely new skill and abilities based on that skill become available to you. Due to the mercurial nature of reality within dreams your force of Will can influence the environment around you and shape it to your desires. While a high enough Wisdom check can create similar effects, shaping the Dreamscape around you will be much easier with the use of a new skill: Dream Shaping.

Where normally skill ranks are chosen by the player at level up, the Dream Shaping Skill ranks are awarded by the DM at their discretion. Players that have exhibited creativity and a willingness to explore the Realm of Dreams fully will more quickly attain ranks in the Dream Shaping skill. The Dream Shaping skill is Wisdom based.

(At this moment, only one of my PCs has experience in this realm and he doesn't actually remember it. His current skill level is one rank)

How Dream Shaping Works:

For the time spent in the Dream Realm each player will receive a pool of points (similar to a Monk's Ki Pool) that they are able to use for Dream Shaping. They must keep at least one point in their pool to maintain an influential connection with The Realm of Dreams whether they are physically in the Realm of Dreams or not.

Note: Some creatures, like Elves and Fey do not require sleep and are immune to its effects. Because of this, the only way for these creatures to enter the Realm of Dreams is physically. While other races may be able to practice their Dream Shaping with only the risk of being expelled from the Dreamscape as a result of completely emptying their Dream Shaping Pool, these other races are unable to do so.

Entering the Dream Realm physically does not change the need for your pool for Dream Shaping. However, instead of being expelled from the Dream when your pool is empty, you are instead adrift in the Dreamscape. Able only to react to the Dreamscape around you until such a time as your pool is replenished.

A Dreamer's pool of Dream Shaping is equal to two times their ranks within the skill plus Wisdom modifier. These points are able to be used in many ways:

Travel-- One point of your pool can be expended to change your ability to travel. A DC 15 DS check will allow modes of travel that the player cannot normally utilize. The Dreamer alters their physical form so that they can fly, swim/breathe underwater, burrow through the ground, etc. Expending two points of your pool and a DC of 25 will allow a Dreamer to instantaneously travel to any place within the Dream Realm that they know of within a certain percentage of error. Maintaining an altered form for travel is subject to Wisdom based concentration checks where spell level is equal to two times Dream Shaping pool points used.

Spell Casting-- Expending one point of your pool will allow you to cast any spell the character knows of between level 0 through 3. DC for a spell that the PC already knows or is able to cast normally is a Dream Shaping check of 10 plus spell level. Spells that the PC is aware of but are outside their casting or class abilities are subject to a spellcraft check to determine if the PC's knowledge of the spell is complete enough to attempt casting. DC for recreating a spell that the PC knows of but is not normally able to cast themselves is a Dream Shaping check of 20 plus the spell's level. Failure of check still expends the point.

Manifestation-- Anything you can think, you can create. Whether that's a key, a weapon, a piece of clothing, or even a building. One point of your pool is required for fabrication of any simple object of half the PC's size or smaller. Simple objects can be manifested as an immediate action but larger manifestations require a full round action.
*Example of Small Manifestation: Smaller manifestations are crude and defined more by instinct than thought. A character is in battle and the enemy's attack roll would result in a hit. As an immediate action he/she can spend one point from their pool to manifest a wall in front of the oncoming weapon. If the DS check is greater than the enemy's attack roll the wall successfully manifests and blocks the attack. The can choose to maintain the manifestation but are subject to Wisdom based concentration checks where spell level counts as two times points used.

Any larger manifestations or more complicated objects (like a delicate key, buildings, or devices such as traps or siege engines) will require two points of your pool. More complicated the fabrications require a suitable Knowledge Check to determine how well the PC can visualize and recreate the object in question. The more obscure or complicated the object, the higher the DC; to be determined by the DM.

*Example of Large Manifestation: The character wants to summon a Trebuchet. It's a complicated device but fairly common and there's a good chance the PC has some experience or familiarity with the device. It is ultimately up to the DM to determine DC for the Knowledge check. In this example the DM determines that a total of 15-20 will demonstrate a complete enough understanding of the device for a fully functional manifestation.

First the PC is subject to a Knowledge: Engineering check to determine how well the object is visualized. A total of 10 or less is a child's stick figure understanding of the object and useless. 10-15 results in a somewhat shabby recreation that is considered to have the broken condition. 15-20 recreates a functional non-masterwork device. 21+ will allow a manifestation of a masterwork device. After the Knowledge check but before the DM reveals the quality of the device created the player must decide if they want to spend the Dream Shaping points from their pool.

The PC manifesting the object must maintain concentration via wisdom based concentration checks where spell level is equal to two times the Dream Shaping pool points used, to hold the manifestation's form within the Dream reality. Magical weapons, items or devices cannot be manifested.

Disrupting--You can disrupt the power and intentions of another Dream Shaper by expending one point of your pool. By using one point of your pool you can cause the opposing Dreamer to make all SoS and DS checks at disadvantage. Opposing Dream Shaping skill checks will determine success or failure. Using two points of your pool allows you to attempt to banish the Dreamer. An opposing DS Skill check that succeeds by 10 or more will shatter the opposing Dreamer's SoS and break their connection from that part of the dream.

These Shaping abilities require concentration and focus. Any affect that is not instantaneous, such as altering self for travel or manifestations are subject to wisdom based concentration checks.

Sense of Self:

Each Dreamer, upon entering the Realm of Dreams is subject to a Dream Shaping Skill check of DC 18 to maintain their Sense of Self. Success allows the PC to create an avatar of themselves that has all the equipment and abilities of their waking self. Failure results in a weak connection to the Dreamscape and an Astral projection would only be able to observe and not to interact with the Dreamscape around them.

When entering the Realm of Dreams physically a Sense of Self check is required as well. Failure, in this case, causes the status effect "Insubstantial Self" where the PC is less themselves than normal. The Dreamer only has access to half their normal Dream Shaping pool and is subject to effects similar to Fatigue and Exhaustion. Failure of 5 or less results in Fatigue and failure of six or more acts as if Exhausted. This status effect cannot be reduced until the Dreamer exits the Dreamscape or is able to meditate within the Realm of Dreams long enough to replenish their DS pool.

Certain creatures, effects, and actions can damage or disrupt a Dreamer's Sense of Self during game play. Depending on the severity of damage to SoS the Dreamer may recover after a few rounds of concentration or may need to take time to meditate on their avatar within the Realm of Dreams.

Replenishing Your Pool:

Replenishing your DS pool is similar to a Monk's mediation to replenish their Ki. It requires quiet reflection and focus on both one's Sense of Self and the nature of dreams for 4 hours. Hours of meditation do not need to be consecutive.