Demoyn's page

Please cancel my adventure path subscription. Thank you.

Technically you COULD make it work, but you shouldn't. A bloodrager already needs strength, constitution, and charisma at least to moderate levels, so adding a minimum 15 dexterity in there is just too much expense for the return on investment.

People tell me all the time how to game here and other places. If people don't like my suggestion, they have no need to follow it. And I never asserted that there is only one way to people to play the game. I said that clerics should be played a certain way based on my experience, as I continued to explain in other posts.

If that's the case, perhaps it's time that you got better experiences.

Kashala-Moz
Male half-orc (mystic) bloodrager (crossblooded) 12 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 15, 83)
LN Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +9; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +14
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Defense
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AC 21, touch 14, flat-footed 19 (+7 armor, +2 Dex, +2 luck)
hp 112 (12d10+36)
Fort +16, Ref +12, Will +10; +2 bonus vs. spells cast by self or an ally
Defensive Abilities blood sanctuary, improved uncanny dodge; DR 2/—
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Offense
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Speed 40 ft. (30 ft. in armor)
Melee +3 furious horsechopper +24/+19/+14 (1d10+16/×3)
Ranged mwk composite longbow +15/+10/+5 (1d8+3/×3)
Special Attacks blood casting, claws, greater bloodrage (28 rounds/day)
Bloodrager (Crossblooded) Spells Known (CL 12th; concentration +15)
. . 3rd (2/day)—burst of speed[UC], fly, haste, heroism
. . 2nd (3/day)—ablative barrier[UC], false life, glitterdust (DC 15), mirror image, resist energy, see invisibility
. . 1st (3/day)—burning hands (DC 14), enlarge person (DC 14), feather fall, long arm[ACG], protection from evil, shield, touch of the sea[APG] (DC 14)
. . Bloodline Aberrant, Abyssal
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Statistics
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Str 28, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 16
Base Atk +12; CMB +21 (+25 trip); CMD 36 (38 vs. trip)
Feats Arcane Strike, Blooded Arcane Strike[ACG], Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Eschew Materials, Greater Trip, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Iron Will, Power Attack, Reckless Rage[ACG]
Traits fate's favored, freed slave (andoran), reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +14, Climb +10, Craft (painting) +18, Escape Artist +7, Knowledge (arcana) +16, Perception +14, Spellcraft +5, Survival +3, Swim +10
Languages Common, Goblin, Orc
SQ abnormal reach, demonic bulk, fast movement, orc blood
Combat Gear jingasa of the fortunate soldier[UE]; Other Gear +1 breastplate, +3 furious horsechopper[ARG], arrows (20), mwk composite longbow (+3 Str), belt of giant strength +6, cloak of resistance +4, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, headband of alluring charisma +4, masterwork artisan's tools, 84 gp
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Special Abilities
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Abnormal Reach (Su) Increase reach by 5 ft when raging.
Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Blood Casting (Su) Cast bloodrager spells while in bloodrage.
Blood Sanctuary +2 (Su) +2 bonus to save vs. spells cast by self or an ally.
Blooded Arcane Strike While bloodraging, Arcane Strike is always in effect and multiplies with Vital Strike.
Bloodrage (28 rounds/day) (Su) +8 Str, +6 Con, +1 to Will saves, -4 to AC when enraged.
Combat Expertise +/-4 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Damage Reduction (2/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Demonic Bulk (Su) When entering bloodrage, can choose to increase size by one category (as enlarge person).
Endurance +4 to a variety of fort saves, skill and ability checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Flaming Claws (Su) 2 Magic Claw attacks deal 1d8 damage + 1d6 fire
Greater Trip Foes you trip provoke AoO when they are knocked prone.
Improved Trip You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when tripping.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=16) (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed. You cannot be flanked unless the attacker is Level 16+.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.

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Demoyn wrote:

Osakaben wrote:

First off, no offense meant to anyone who DOES want to play a cleric.

I GM a group 4 players, running Runelords. I want everyone to have fun and to be able to build their character however they like. No one wanted to be a cleric, but the party needs the healing, channel energy, and knowledge (religion).

This is false thinking. Heal bots are actually detrimental to efficient parties, and have been for over a decade now. Do a search for Treantmonk's guide to the God Wizard and read the part about party roles.

A cleric is useful in that AP though, there's a few points in the first two books where it seems you are expected to have cleric spells.

Nobody said anything about cleric spells. I said HEALING spells. There should always be a character capable of casting divine spells, that player just doesn't need to focus on healing... like ever in combat.

If you want to fit in with the party, the obvious choices are sorcerer or wizard. Wizard is the better overall choice (knowledge skills and moderate diplomacy), though if you want fresh a psychic could play the role well also. Here are a few of my PFS characters. They could use minor tweaks for home play (18 point buy, level 12), but it's a good start:

Fehzid Al-Rahsheen
Male human (Keleshite) wizard 15
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +15; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +28
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Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 16, flat-footed 17 (+2 armor, +1 deflection, +4 Dex, +1 luck, +1 natural, +2 shield)
hp 152 (15d6+90)
Fort +13, Ref +13, Will +13
DR 5/lethal
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft., fly 40 ft. (average); shift
Melee +1 dueling dagger +6/+1 (1d4-1/19-20) or
. . dagger +5/+0 (1d4-2/19-20)
Arcane School Spell-Like Abilities (CL 15th; concentration +25)
. . At will—dimensional steps (450 feet/day)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 15th; concentration +25)
. . 8th—maze, maze, polymorph any object (DC 28)
. . 7th—dazing selective fireball (DC 23), quickened haste, summon monster VII, waves of exhaustion
. . 6th—contingency, greater dispel magic (2), getaway[APG], persistent quickened widened glitterdust (2, DC 24)
. . 5th—quickened selective widened glitterdust (DC 24), overland flight, quickened shield, persistent slow (DC 23), teleport, quickened vanish[APG] (DC 21), wall of force
. . 4th—dimension door, persistent selective widened glitterdust (3, DC 24), resilient sphere (DC 24), telekinetic charge[UC] (2)
. . 3rd—ablative barrier[UC], fireball (2, DC 23), fly (2), haste, slow (DC 23)
. . 2nd—darkvision, false life, quickened glitterdust (3, DC 24), mirror image (2), web (DC 23)
. . 1st—crafter's fortune[APG] (DC 21), enlarge person (DC 21), feather fall, mage armor, magic missile, protection from evil, shield, touch of the sea[APG] (DC 21)
. . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect magic, prestidigitation
. . Opposition Schools Divination, Enchantment
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 7, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 30, Wis 11, Cha 7
Base Atk +7; CMB +5 (+7 disarm); CMD 21 (23 vs. disarm)
Feats Additional Traits, Alertness, Combat Casting, Dazing Spell[APG], Improved Familiar, Improved Initiative, Persistent Spell[APG], Quicken Spell, Selective Spell[APG], Spell Focus (conjuration), Spell Penetration, Spell Perfection[APG], Toughness, Widen Spell
Traits eastern mysteries, eyes and ears of the city, magical lineage, reactionary
Skills Appraise +15, Bluff -2 (+0 to Feint), Craft (alchemy) +28, Diplomacy +13, Fly +18, Knowledge (arcana) +28, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +23, Knowledge (engineering) +15, Knowledge (geography) +15, Knowledge (history) +15, Knowledge (local) +28, Knowledge (nature) +28, Knowledge (nobility) +15, Knowledge (planes) +28, Knowledge (religion) +28, Linguistics +28, Perception +28, Sense Motive +2, Spellcraft +28, Use Magic Device +13
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Ancient Osiriani, Aquan, Auran, Azlanti, Celestial, Common, Cyclops, Draconic, Elven, Hallit, Ignan, Infernal, Jistka, Kelish, Osiriani, Polyglot, Shadowtongue, Shoanti, Skald, Takritanin, Terran, Thassilonian, Tien, Varisian
SQ arcane bond (rexmmiliphus, devil, imp), summoner's charm (7 rounds)
Combat Gear extend metamagic rod (lesser), jingasa of the fortunate soldier[UE], pearl of power (1st level), potion of cure light wounds (2), quicken metamagic rod (lesser), selective metamagic rod (lesser)[APG], silent metamagic rod (lesser), snapleaf[UE], unfettered shirt[UE], wand of infernal healing (4 charges); Other Gear +1 mithral light steel shield, +1 dueling dagger, dagger, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of physical might +4 (Dex, Con), cloak of resistance +4, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, dazing metamagic rod (lesser)[APG], efficient quiver, eyes of the eagle, handy haversack, headband of vast intelligence +6, ring of protection +1, bedroll, courtier's outfit (2), flint and steel, ink, inkpen, jewelry[UE], paper (5), spell component pouch, spellbook (2), sunrod (2), trail rations (3), waterskin (2), 55,730 gp
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Special Abilities
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Combat Casting +4 to Concentration checks to cast while on the defensive.
Damage Reduction (5/lethal) You have Damage Reduction against non-lethal damage
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Dazing Spell You can cast a spell that dazes those injured by it (duration = spell's level in rounds, Fort negates).
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Dimensional Steps (90 5-ft inc/day) (Sp) As a standard action, teleport in 5 foot increments. If carry another, double cost.
Divination You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Divination school.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Enchantment You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Enchantment school.
Familiar Bonus: You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Flight (40 feet, Average) You can fly!
Persistent Spell Foes must succeed at 2 saves or suffer the spell's full effects.
Quicken Spell Cast a spell as a swift action. +4 Levels.
Scry on Familiar (1/day) (Sp) You can scry on your familiar, as the spell.
Selective Spell You can cast a spell that does not affect some targets within its area.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Shift (35 feet, 13/day) (Sp) Short-range teleport
Speak with Familiar (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your familiar.
Spell Focus (Conjuration) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Spell Perfection (Glitterdust) The selected spell can have 1 metamagic feat applied for free, as long as the modified level stays at or below 9. Double the effects of feats like spell focus, weapon focus [ray], etc. on this spell.
Summoner's Charm (+7 rds) (Su) Increase duration of summoning spells by 1/2 level (permanent at 20).
Teleportation Associated School: Conjuration
Widen Spell Alter area of a burst, emanation, line or spread spell. +3 Levels.

Fehzid Ibn Fehzid
Male human (Keleshite) sorcerer 12
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +16; Senses Perception +8
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Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 13, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +1 deflection, +2 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 98 (12d6+48)
Fort +10, Ref +9, Will +12
DR 5/lethal
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Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft., fly 40 ft. (average)
Melee dagger +4/-1 (1d4-2/19-20)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 12th; concentration +21)
. . 6th (4/day)—cold ice strike[UM] (DC 27), greater dispel magic, true seeing
. . 5th (7/day)—baleful polymorph (DC 24), overland flight, wall of force
. . 4th (8/day)—confusion (DC 23), dimension door, enervation, telekinetic charge[UC], wall of ice (DC 25)
. . 3rd (8/day)—ablative barrier[UC], dispel magic, fireball (DC 24), fly, haste, slow (DC 22)
. . 2nd (8/day)—glitterdust (DC 21), invisibility, mirror image, resist energy, scorching ray, see invisibility, web (DC 21)
. . 1st (9/day)—ear-piercing scream[UM] (DC 22), feather fall, grease, identify, mage armor, magic missile, protection from evil
. . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound (DC 19), mage hand, mending, message, prestidigitation, read magic, spark[APG] (DC 21)
. . Bloodline Arcane
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 7, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 28
Base Atk +6; CMB +4; CMD 17
Feats Alertness, Dazing Spell[APG], Empower Spell, Eschew Materials, Improved Familiar, Improved Initiative, Noble Scion Of War[ISWG], Persistent Spell[APG], Piercing Spell[UM], Toughness
Traits extremely fashionable, magical lineage, reactionary
Skills Appraise +6, Bluff +14, Diplomacy +22, Fly +8, Intimidate +30, Knowledge (arcana) +5, Knowledge (planes) +7, Linguistics +7, Perception +8, Sense Motive +3, Spellcraft +16, Use Magic Device +24
Languages Ancient Osiriani, Auran, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Kelish
SQ arcane bond (xerphetheles, devil, imp), bloodline arcana (+1 DC for metamagic spells that increase spell level), metamagic adept (4/day), new arcana, school power (evocation)
Combat Gear extend metamagic rod (lesser), silent metamagic rod (lesser), acid, alchemist's fire; Other Gear dagger, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of mighty constitution +2, cloak of resistance +3, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, eyes of the eagle, handy haversack, headband of alluring charisma +6, ring of protection +1, robe of arcane heritage[APG], jewelry[UE], mask[UE], noble's outfit, pathfinder's kit[UE], signet ring, 1,581 gp
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Special Abilities
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Bloodline Arcana: Arcane (Ex) When a spell level is increased by a metamagic feat, it gains +1 DC.
Damage Reduction (5/lethal) You have Damage Reduction against non-lethal damage
Dazing Spell You can cast a spell that dazes those injured by it (duration = spell's level in rounds, Fort negates).
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Empower Spell Numeric effects of a spell are increased 50%. +2 Levels.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Familiar Bonus: You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Flight (40 feet, Average) You can fly!
Metamagic Adept (4/day) (Ex) Apply a metamagic feat without increasing the casting time of the spell.
New Arcana - level (4) (Ex) Add 1 spell to your list of spells known
Persistent Spell Foes must succeed at 2 saves or suffer the spell's full effects.
Piercing Spell Affected spell treats creatures with SR as having an SR of 5 lower
School Power (Evocation) (Ex) Add +2 to the DC of spells from the Evocation school.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Speak with Familiar (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your familiar.

Sa'ed Al-Rahsheen
Male human (Keleshite) psychic 12 (Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures 60)
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +9; Senses Perception +17
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Defense
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AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 12 (+3 Dex, +2 Wis)
hp 104 (12d6+54)
Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +14
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Special Attacks phrenic amplifications (mimic metamagic[OA], mimic metamagic[OA], relentless casting[OA], space-rending spell[OA]), phrenic pool (10 points), physical push (+2, 2/day)
Psychic Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +22)
. . 1/day—detect thoughts (DC 9), telepathic bond
Psychic Spells Known (CL 12th; concentration +22)
. . 6th (5/day)—disintegrate (DC 26), transformation
. . 5th (7/day)—greater command (DC 27), echolocation[UM], overland flight, waves of fatigue
. . 4th (8/day)—confusion (DC 26), dimension door, freedom of movement, mental barrier III[OA], telekinetic charge[UC]
. . 3rd (8/day)—ablative barrier[UC], dispel magic, fly, haste, heroism, mind thrust III[OA] (DC 23), slow (DC 23)
. . 2nd (9/day)—bear's endurance, false life, mental barrier I[OA], mirror image, oppressive boredom[UM] (DC 24), see invisibility
. . 1st (9/day)—ear-piercing scream[UM] (DC 21), enlarge person (DC 21), expeditious retreat, feather step[APG] (DC 21), liberating command[UC], mage armor, murderous command[UM] (DC 23)
. . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound (DC 20), mage hand, mending, message, prestidigitation, read magic, stabilize
. . Psychic Discipline Self-perfection
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Statistics
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Str 7, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 30, Wis 14, Cha 7
Base Atk +6; CMB +4; CMD 19
Feats Expanded Phrenic Pool[OA], Greater Spell Focus (enchantment), Improved Initiative, Persistent Spell[APG], Spell Focus (enchantment), Spell Penetration, Toughness
Traits magical lineage, reactionary
Skills Craft (alchemy) +25, Diplomacy +13, Escape Artist +15, Fly +14, Knowledge (arcana) +25, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +25, Knowledge (engineering) +14, Knowledge (geography) +14, Knowledge (history) +14, Knowledge (local) +25, Knowledge (nature) +25, Knowledge (nobility) +25, Knowledge (planes) +25, Knowledge (religion) +25, Linguistics +14, Perception +17, Sense Motive +6, Spellcraft +25
Languages Abyssal, Ancient Osiriani, Auran, Azlanti, Celestial, Common, Ignan, Infernal, Jistka, Kelish, Takritanin, Terran, Thassilonian
SQ bodily purge (6d8), detect thoughts, telepathic bond
Other Gear belt of physical might +2 (Dex, Con), cloak of resistance +4, handy haversack, headband of vast intelligence +6, backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, prismatic crystal[OA], torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, 43,965 gp
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Special Abilities
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Bodily Purge (6d8/day) (Su) You have a pool of dice you can use to heal yourself or remove afflcitions.
Detect Thoughts (Sp) Cast detect thoughts, or expend 1st or higher spell slot to do so.
Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) +1 to the Save DC of spells from one school.
Mimic Metamagic (Ectoplasmic Spell, Intensified Spell) (Ex) Spend points from your pool to apply selected metamagics.
Mimic Metamagic (Extend Spell, Persistent Spell) (Ex) Spend points from your pool to apply selected metamagics.
Persistent Spell Foes must succeed at 2 saves or suffer the spell's full effects.
Phrenic Pool (10/day) (Su) Pool of points you can use to modify psychic spells as they're cast.
Physical Push +2 (2/day) (Su) Add Wis bonus to a Str, Dex, or Con ability or skill check. Recover 1 pool if you succeed.
Relentless Casting (Su) 1 pool: roll twice and take better result to overcome SR for linked spell.
Space-rending Spell (Su) Spend pool up to linked spell level to teleport 10 ft/point.
Spell Focus (Enchantment) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Telepathic Bond (Sp) Cast telepathic bond, or expend 4th or higher spell slot to do so.

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From my limited time playing pathfinder I have noticed that there are three things you can do at the table. You can scout (ex: sneak onto a ship to steal the captain's log), you can talk and you can fight. Players who can only do one of the three tend to not have much to do. If you have magic then you can support all three. If you are a cha dump fighter, chances are all you can do is move and attack while more well rounded characters get to actually do more.

So what character is best at always being useful regardless of mission type? Where it won't matter if you are charming a noble or bashing an orc's face in?

The best that I could come up with is this:

Sacred Slayer, archer build with conversion inquisition. Take a trait that gives you disable device.

With this you can sneak well. You can speak well (replace cha with wis for talking skills). You can cast basic spells, fight recently and can disarm mundane traps. At lvl 8 you get trapfinding so you can disarm magical traps too.

In other words, a jack of all trades. A character that can come to a random party and fill whatever is missing. He can't beat a specialist, but he is always useful in something.

But I can't help but feel that I'm missing something. That another class can do this better. Any suggestions?

A human slayer with the world traveler trait would be the best all around. I'd personally go with a human barbarian using world traveler, though. They can just walk right through traps instead of disarming them.

This is obviously a job for a beast totem invulnerable rager barbarian.

First off, no offense meant to anyone who DOES want to play a cleric.

I GM a group 4 players, running Runelords. I want everyone to have fun and to be able to build their character however they like. No one wanted to be a cleric, but the party needs the healing, channel energy, and knowledge (religion).

This is false thinking. Heal bots are actually detrimental to efficient parties, and have been for over a decade now. Do a search for Treantmonk's guide to the God Wizard and read the part about party roles.

Don't get me wrong, I'm playing SWTOR as we speak, but only because there are no better options. It's really just a gritty WoW clone with lightsabers and enough cut-scenes to make even the most avid story-lover sick. There are some enjoyable aspects. There are some horrendous aspects. I could never see myself playing this game for more than three months at a time, though.

"Q: Do you agree with the general direction Ryan set for the game?
A: When we first starting to think about making Pathfinder Online, Paizo hired Ryan to create a design document that would be used as a template for making the game. The Paizo team approved that document and that has been used as the marching orders for the team ever since. That won’t change now that Ryan is not with the company."

In all my years of supporting Paizo, the one thing that put them above every other company was their ability to adapt (closely related to their amazing customer service). There are TONS of people begging for a good MMO right now. WoW is bleeding players every day. SWTOR is a substandard game kept alive only because of the name on the box and the reputation of the publisher. No other true MMO even compares, but for the first time I've ever seen stubbornness is winning out at Paizo (Goblinworks).

Ryan Dancey once made the comment that he was confident 90% of the people who he was making PFO for would like the game. Apparently he only had a goal audience of about 20 people in mind. You're in a prime position to fix that right now. Don't just stay a failing course. Be Paizo. Adapt.

I absolutely want to support this venture. In fact, I've already put too much money into it as is, but there's no way I can support the game that's been created. If there was a worse vision for a game with the Pathfinder brand attached than an EVE Online clone I don't have the imagination to think of it (and I've been playing games with my imagination for 24 years, so I'm really practiced at it).

If you need inspiration for what I believe your current audience would enjoy try looking at original Ultima Online, Shadowbane, and Dungeons and Dragons Online. There's a sweet spot somewhere in between those games that would both make truckloads of money AND bring years of enjoyment to your most loyal supporters.

I received the shipping email 34 days ago, but still haven't received the package. Backstory: this has happened quite a few times now, and it's been getting more frequent.

Each time I've sent an email and received a new package, but then a day or two later the original arrives as well. I'm not sure if the catch is with Paizo or the USPS, but if it's with them you should probably do something about it. I can't be the only one this happens to, and it can't be good for business (I know after five years of subscriptions it's starting to bother me just a little more than I'm willing to handle).

They took away reach from spiked chain. Step up requires being adjacent. Telekinetic charge requires being adjacent.

So my question is: why do the developers hate reach weapons? Did their parents spank them with reach weapons when they were children? Are they prejudiced? Or do the developers that created step up and telekinetic charge just not understand the game well enough to properly design the rules for it?

Demoyn wrote:

So, after three straight years of being promised a new seeker arc we finally get one, and it's filled with gunslingers and science fiction... two categories that a full 50% of your customer base doesn't want in PFS. Gee, I wonder why you had a six hour meeting about how D&D is starting to steal people back...

I'd be extremely surprised if that 50% statistic were correct....

(Of course, it's well documented that 37% of all statistics are simply made up on the spot.)

I wouldn't be surprised at all. When gunslingers came out the boards were split evenly between people that wanted it and people that didn't. The fires flared up again when season 6 was announced. Generally speaking, though, people that can't stand Paizo's current direction have just stopped voicing opinions because everyone realized they were just yelling at two brick walls.

Paizo has decided they're going to do what they want regardless of how the customer base feels. We've all seen this once before, but some people just can't seem to learn from other companies' mistakes.

So, after three straight years of being promised a new seeker arc we finally get one, and it's filled with gunslingers and science fiction... two categories that a full 50% of your customer base doesn't want in PFS. Gee, I wonder why you had a six hour meeting about how D&D is starting to steal people back...

Also, how are you going to get around encumbrance issues with that lousy Str score? Muleback Cords?

Probably the same way everyone else in the world does... handy haversack.

I hope the next announcement is about how gunslingers, swashbucklers, and summoners will not be legal after season 6. The power creep is definitely the biggest problem I've noticed with society play.

There are zero problems. I didn't say anything about using a swift action during the attack of opportunity.

Second, what? I saw speaking from a level 11 or 12 perspective (you won't have all the feats before then). You can certainly haste by then. Not that it really matters, because the wizard or sorcerer should have that covered anyway, to be honest.

I went crossblooded bloodrager with aberrant and abyssal. Take horsechopper or glaive, greater trip, power attack, cornugon smash, hurtful, combat reflexes, iron will, and intimidating prowess.

Suddenly you have a 25' reach, trip (and attack) everything that comes near you (or up to 50' away from your caster), give everyone AoOs, debuff, and THEN take five attacks (you hasted when you raged, right?).

Edit: Oh... and did I mention that you deal 1d10+41 on each of those attacks?

Would the Cornugon Smash and Hurtful feats stack?

** spoiler omitted **

Looks to me like;
Standard action - Successful attack with PA, which gives me;
Free action - CS for demoralize is successful which allows;
Swift action - Hurtful for extra attack

It's even better than that. You don't have to use a standard action. You can full attack and STILL get the extra attack through hurtful.

And to Demonym, my point was if that if you have a use for swift actions (which I'm not remembering what the Bloodrager I built was using them for) but if they have a use for them besides Arcane Strike it might be more beneficial to take Blooded Arcane Strike instead of Reckless Rage. Also, there are some places where I meant to say BAS instead of AS.

At level 10 and 11 you will do a VERY minor amount of extra average damage with blooded arcane strike over reckless rage (less than 5% damage) if you use your swift action for something other than arcane strike every single round. If you use swift actions say... on half of your turns, then reckless rage wins again (because half those turns will be at +6).

Reckless rage is just a better feat, hands down. The ONLY situation where blooded arcane strike becomes better is if you use your swift actions on other things over three-quarters of your actions during levels 10 and 11 (assuming PFS).

Fourshadow: yes. Everyone has an opinion. This is the advice forum, not the opinion forum.

You should be taking power attack at level 1, arcane strike at level 5, and reckless rage at level 7 or 11. That was never in question. The question is whether blooded arcane strike was better than reckless rage, and the answer is a resounding no.

That's not exactly advice, Fourshadow. Vital strike is, and always will be, an extremely horrible feat tree.

This was never a question. Multiclassing changes nothing. Reckless rage was ALWAYS the better choice. Simply put, it's the difference between always getting plus 3 (blooded arcane strike), or always getting plus 3 (reckless rage) and usually getting ANOTHER plus 3 (arcane strike).

Literally the ONLY time you should take blooded arcane strike is if you have extra feats that you can't decide on. Reckless rage should be mandatory on all bloodragers and barbarians at either level 7 or 11.

I'd easily have a level 20 character... if Steven would start GMing for me online again!!!

I assume this post means Mr. Lau will not be attending Owlcon. If he is, you may want to play it safe and have a backup for any scenarios he's GMing. ;)

In all seriousness, though, I completely expect there to be tons of gunslingers at Owlcon. I expect by then they'll have announced that gunslingers and summoners will be taken out of the campaign at GenCon and everyone will be rushing to get one grandfathered in.

How locked into that scheduling are you? I haven't missed an Owlcon in six years, but with this schedule the interactive and Bonekeep are the only two things worth showing up for.

I'd offer to GM Eyes of the Ten if you don't have someone lined up for that, but that would overlap both things I'd want to play. There are quite a few of us who refuse to play season six, and in many slots there are no alternatives to that except Emerald Spire (which I'm saving to play in order).

I'd put an invulnerable rager barbarian up against anything at low levels for survivability. All you need is a cure light wounds or infernal healing wand and someone to use it between combats and you'll never need to slow down.

Yes but you are talking about being fully buffed. When the casters start lobbing buffs your way the numbers can get very high.

No, I'm not. I said when YOU'RE fully buffed. Barbarians don't need anything but rage to beat those numbers. I was giving you the benefit of buffs to reduce your arguments. The fact is that you often won't have time to buff, and will be that much weaker in comparison.

Demoyn wrote:

Marroar Gellantara wrote:

Demoyn wrote:

Marroar Gellantara wrote:

Said Fighter's saves

Fort: 28
Ref : 21
Will : 20

There are very few creatures that can reliably dominate this fighter. The only thing that I think can is an optimized PC caster. A caster that specialized in enchantment...

Idk, seems unlikely.

If your saves are that high on a fighter, you're going to be really lacking in more important areas. There are other, much cheaper defenses to debilitating affects.

Why don't you look at the char and tell me where he is lacking?

Well let's just say that your attack and damage, when fully buffed, is what I'm used to on a level 12 barbarian.

OK? I'm fairly sure the lvl 12 version of this build when fully buffed could also do just as much damage.

Damage? It would be lower, but not significantly so. Attack? That would suffer greatly just from the reduction in gold and BAB alone.

Could you remove the dice tray completely, and schedule the character add-on pack to ship with a subscription whenever it becomes available, please? I will likely need some of these products before a new printing of the add-on pack. Thank you.

Demoyn wrote:

Marroar Gellantara wrote:

Said Fighter's saves

Fort: 28
Ref : 21
Will : 20

There are very few creatures that can reliably dominate this fighter. The only thing that I think can is an optimized PC caster. A caster that specialized in enchantment...

Idk, seems unlikely.

If your saves are that high on a fighter, you're going to be really lacking in more important areas. There are other, much cheaper defenses to debilitating affects.

Why don't you look at the char and tell me where he is lacking?

Well let's just say that your attack and damage, when fully buffed, is what I'm used to on a level 12 barbarian.

Said Fighter's saves

Fort: 28
Ref : 21
Will : 20

There are very few creatures that can reliably dominate this fighter. The only thing that I think can is an optimized PC caster. A caster that specialized in enchantment...

Idk, seems unlikely.

If your saves are that high on a fighter, you're going to be really lacking in more important areas. There are other, much cheaper defenses to debilitating affects.

Demoyn wrote:

KuntaSS wrote:

Stop all effects, the 20 fighter with low saves is going to be a liability beyond just potentially dying, he could also get dominated and turn on the party.

Or you can completely negate your argument for the cost of 4,000 gold.

Only against Evil enemies.

Yeah, but there are plenty of defenses against those few pesky neutral mind controllers as well. Still, a vast majority of people trying to dominate you will be evil.

In other news, I wish I could review things, since Trial by Machine really doesn't belong to be in the bottom 5 scenarios, but either I'm completely blind and can't find the review link or it doesn't exist for me.

I disagree. I have a feeling that MOST of the season 6 scenarios are going to be close to the bottom 5 in rating, since a lot of people are mad that we're being force-fed sci-fi crap.

Stop all effects, the 20 fighter with low saves is going to be a liability beyond just potentially dying, he could also get dominated and turn on the party.

Or you can completely negate your argument for the cost of 4,000 gold.

I mean, as a rule you need a tank (martial class) a caster (arcane class) a healer (divine class) and maybe (but only maybe) a Skill-monkey (rogue-ly-type). Now obviously some of you are already composing angry posts explaining how people can make ANY party work and your party of all wizards was the most fun you ever had and in fact, my party of all wizards was some of the most fun *I* ever had. But as a general power issue you gotta have one of each, that's how the system works. Any other party is using hacks and workarounds to shore up the gap left by not having at least 1 of each.

This is completely out-dated. Tanks and healers are hindrances to party composition. Read Treantmonk's wizard guide for more information about how to play the game tactically, please.

Ever since the ACG patch was released Hero Lab seems to be messing up a lot of numbers. I know my barbarian's beast totem and reckless abandon aren't calculating correctly either. Just wanted to throw that out there so that people start looking twice before trusting Hero Lab numbers until the next patch.

Can a familiar even cast ill omen? If so WOW that's really good. Like really really good.

We're talking about familiars casting spells through wands so, yes. A familiar can use ANY wand, because they're doing it with the Use Magic Device skill anyway.

Demoyn wrote:

I, of course, prefer the imp over the mephits. They all have positives and negatives, though, but they're all better than a bonded object except in rare cases.

Imps have better special abilities than Mephits have. I prefer Mephits because of the size issue. Can a tiny creature use a wand? Can a tiny creature throw a tanglefoot bag? Can a tiny creature carry a haversack full of goodies?

As a small creature a mephit can do all those things (since Halflings and Gnomes can)

(note I'm not looking for debate on those questions, the debate would need to be with your GM)

The one you missed is that small creatures can threaten (and thus flank), which is sometimes very important. However, I solve all the other questions by just buying my wands in tiny form to begin with. ;)

Everything Treantmonk said is great. Some of it doesn't quite work in PFS, though (if that's a consideration). Personally, I get a few wands for 2 PA each (so practically free). My typical list includes cure light wounds, infernal healing, enlarge person, grease, protection from evil, and vanish. All of these are great spells, but things you don't want to spend actions on (except grease, which is used to ready an action in order to prevent charges).

At later levels I also buy a wand of cure moderate wounds and a wand of haste, for much the same reason. Aside from that, he's an invisible scout, a second skill check, a way to detect good and magic without the enemy knowing, and an aid another when necessary.

I, of course, prefer the imp over the mephits. They all have positives and negatives, though, but they're all better than a bonded object except in rare cases.

Familiars give you the action economy of a summoner. Bonded items give you a slight bit more utility and can POSSIBLY save you up to 20,000 gold. Both are good choices, but if you're asking for the one that's, generally speaking, the more powerful option, it will be familiar every time.

Any class that can cast AoE damage spells and thus "accidentally" keep targeting the gunslinger.

If you crossblood Celestial and Undead taking the 1st power from Celestial and the 4th from Undead you basically get Holy and then Ghost Touch for all of your melee attacks which frees up room for other enchanments on the weapon.

Frees up room for other enchantments? Um... no. You already break alignment DR (ALL alignments, not just good) with a +5 base weapon (which means +3 furious). After that there's no reason to spend ~20k gold to do a little extra damage to incorporeals unless you're in an undead heavy campaign. You're not freeing up anything. You're just making your character weaker by giving up better options.

From the Pathfinder Society FAQ:

Can my animal companion or familiar wear or use magic items?

Quote:

It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items.

Why don't you try reading the ENTIRE FAQ before you go spreading false information?

Here's a quote by Mike Brock: "No. The only activated item that can be used (with the exception of ioun stones) by a select list of improved familiars is a wand."

I think an Arcane Bonded Item is much better than a Familiar in PFS, as they cannot activate magic items in society play.

This isn't exactly correct. Improved familiars with hands and languages can activate wands and some ioun stones. Since the reason you get familiars are for wands, it's still generally the more powerful option.

Druid wild shape (deinonychus and allosaurus), bard dervish dancer, figher (two-weapon warrior and viking)...

Or if you prefer a gnome, here's the character I made for a friend of mine:

Gnome Invulnerable Rager Urban Barbarian 7

HP 96 (DR 3/-)
AC 20 (+3 if adjacent to 2 or more enemies)
Init +4

+15/+10 (+3 if adjacent to 2 or more enemies) nodachi 1d8+18 (+2 more if
opponent has magic) 18-20/x2 (+2 killer)

Str 23 (16 base, +1 level, +2 belt, +4 rage)
Dex 12
Con 22 (16 base, +6 rage)
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 9

Racial Traits:
gift of tongues

Traits:
adopted
elven reflexes
killer

Rage Powers:
lesser beast totem
superstition
witch hunter
beast totem

Skills:
1 acrobatics
1 climb
7 diplomacy
4 linguistics
7 perception
1 swim
(more points to spend - or spend favored class on hp instead)

Feats:
combat reflexes
extra rage power
power attack
raging vitality

Gear:
+1 furious nodachi
+2 chain shirt
amulet of natural armor +1
belt of giant strength +2
cloak of resistance +2
cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone
jingasa of the fortunate soldier
ring of protection +1

I'm sure you can see where this is going judging by the build above. The main difference is the stats and skills.

You can listen to these guys, or you can use my build that's one of the most feared in Texas.

Halfling Invulnerable Rager Barbarian 12

HP 185 (DR 6/-) (favored class spent on hp)
AC 28
Init +6

+31/+31/+26/+21 (+3 for charging and higher ground through flying carpet) falchion 3d6 (weapon + acid + choice of element) +32 15-20/x2 (+2 killer)

Str 30 (16 base, +2 level, +6 belt, +6 rage)
Dex 14
Con 24 (15 base, +1 level, +8 rage)
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 9

Racial traits:
fleet of foot

Traits:
adopted
killer
warrior of old

Rage Powers:
lesser beast totem
lesser elemental rage
reckless abandon
elemental rage
greater beast totem
superstition
come and get me
beast totem
(you can go with witch hunter and spell sunder instead of elemental rage)

Skills:
acrobatics 3
climb 1
fly 6
perception 12
survival 2
swim 1
(there are more points - I use skills for roleplay purposes)

Feats:
combat reflexes
extra rage power (x2)
improved critical: falchion
power attack
raging vitality

Gear:
+3 furious Falchion
+3 mithral breastplate
amulet of natural armor +2
belt of giant strength +6
boots of speed
carpet of flying I
cloak of resistance +3
eyes of the eagle
dusty rose prism ioun stone
cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone
jingasa of the fortunate soldier
ring of evasion
ring of protection +2
snapleaf
unfettered shirt

At level 10, +17, fully buffed, pretty much isn't going to hit anything on a 2.

With an average enemy AC of 25, you hit on an 8, 13 with a secondary...meaning your secondary misses 2/3 of the time. In all, against AC 25, you're basically going to average hitting once a round.

Once a round with Vital Strike sounds more attractive then, no?

==Aelryinth

He said it wasn't optimized. At level 10 he'd have two stat bumps, a better weapon, a better belt, and divine favor up. He hits on a two.