I'm building a spell-eater bloodrager who will be starting at 9th level. Now I'm undecided whether I should take both arcane strike and blooded arcane strike or arcane strike and reckless rage?
With the first combo I have my arcane strike always on while raging and get +3 damage out of it.
With the second combo I have to use a swift action for arcane strike (which I sometimes will need for spelleating) but I get +3 damage from PA at the cost of -1 to hit.
What do you think?
I have liked Blooded Arcane Strike ever since I saw it. Save that Swift Action! Also, Arcane Strike damage can now be multiplied by Vital Strike--I rarely have full attack characters, so VS and its chain is useful (particular for mobile characters).
Once I'd seen blooded AS, I wanted to use it. But now reckless rage got me thinking: Is it really forth the feat? Would not RR be better?
As I do not plan to take VS the latter part is not relevant for me in this case. I plan to make a VS using pc in the future with one of the new feats grasping strike, feary strike and winter strike. I might try to add the arcane strike multiplier into that build.
Reckless Rage doesn't scale, though. You only get the extra +2 (or +3 when two-handing) damage. I'd go with BAS in case you get some nice swift or immediate action powers, but otherwise I'd look for a new feat.
I decided to switch classes after 8th level, taking magical knack to let my CL go to 10th. So after that AS and BAS will not scale anymore.
Because of that it is +3 always when raging (at 10th level) or up to +6 with reckless rage + AS when using the swift actions and taking -1 to hit. Or +3 with either or. I guess I'll take reckless rage.
What class is it gonna be after 8 that May be important to know if hitting is gonna be harder.
It will be samurai. Still full BAB.
I Think sticking out for greater rage and more spells is a More powerfull. But if you Can get the Mount to a meningfull level it May be Nice.
I Think sticking out for greater rage and more spells is a More powerfull. But if you Can get the Mount to a meningfull level it May be Nice.
Greater rage is strong, you are right. But when it comes to spells I hate* the BR spell list so much I'll only use the spells for self heal (spell eating). Unless I come into a situation where it seems that one of my spells can save my life. Like feather fall.
*some reasons can be found here. In short: Unnecessary nerf by taking away magus list.
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This was never a question. Multiclassing changes nothing. Reckless rage was ALWAYS the better choice. Simply put, it's the difference between always getting plus 3 (blooded arcane strike), or always getting plus 3 (reckless rage) and usually getting ANOTHER plus 3 (arcane strike).
Literally the ONLY time you should take blooded arcane strike is if you have extra feats that you can't decide on. Reckless rage should be mandatory on all bloodragers and barbarians at either level 7 or 11.
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Mandatory damage feats for a blood ranger:
Power attack, arcane strike, reckless rage, raging brutality
Great defensive feats: raging vitality, iron will, toughness
You can actually get all those feats into a single build.
My thought on bloodied arcane strike:
WTF you using swift actions on? Unless you have a rod of quicken spell...your swift action is empty...so using arcane strike is not too much of an action choice.
I know I am in a minority, but Vital Strike is a feat I like. I prefer mobile characters over full attackers, particularly with natural attacks. Reckless Rage is useful, but it doesn't have the synergy with VS that Blooded AS has.
I dont Think there is lots of mandatory feats. And i Linda like the bloodrager spell list it have both mage armor, false life and heroism that i always mis on the magus list.
Please let's keep the spell list discussion to the other thread. It has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
I don't have the build in front of me, but I remember building a Primalist Arcane Bloodline Bloodrager and feel like there was something with the character that used up swift actions that I didn't want to have to choose between that and Arcane Strike. For the life of me though, I can't remember what it was.
I do also remember looking at Reckless Rage and basically thinking it puts you one bump up the Power Attack scale effectively. But, if you stay straight bloodrager (which has full caster level) at 10th level you equal the damage bonus from Reckless Rage, but take no attack penalty. If you did the DPR calculation the to hit penalty with Power Attack and Reckless Rage probably makes it even with Arcane Strike when it reaches +2 damage (at level 5). Eventually I would pick up both, but I think Arcane Strike is probably better at earlier levels when you don't have many bonuses to hit and the penalty from PA and RR would be more troublesome.
However, when you are multiclassing it definitely takes more consideration since Arcane Strike will stop growing. Also, if you don't have any uses for Swifty acitons then there is no reason to taked Blooded Arcane Strike.
Thanks for the advice everyone
I don't have the build in front of me, but I remember building a Primalist Arcane Bloodline Bloodrager and feel like there was something with the character that used up swift actions that I didn't want to have to choose between that and Arcane Strike. For the life of me though, I can't remember what it was.
I do also remember looking at Reckless Rage and basically thinking it puts you one bump up the Power Attack scale effectively. But, if you stay straight bloodrager (which has full caster level) at 10th level you equal the damage bonus from Reckless Rage, but take no attack penalty. If you did the DPR calculation the to hit penalty with Power Attack and Reckless Rage probably makes it even with Arcane Strike when it reaches +2 damage (at level 5). Eventually I would pick up both, but I think Arcane Strike is probably better at earlier levels when you don't have many bonuses to hit and the penalty from PA and RR would be more troublesome.
However, when you are multiclassing it definitely takes more consideration since Arcane Strike will stop growing. Also, if you don't have any uses for Swifty acitons then there is no reason to taked Blooded Arcane Strike.
So, the board I thought ate my post earlier but apparently posted it anyways. However, the site was still down for maintenance so I couldn't edit it.
I think my general point comes across, so please ignore the spelling and grammar errors which I am prone to and usually edit out after posting.
And to Demonym, my point was if that if you have a use for swift actions (which I'm not remembering what the Bloodrager I built was using them for) but if they have a use for them besides Arcane Strike it might be more beneficial to take Blooded Arcane Strike instead of Reckless Rage. Also, there are some places where I meant to say BAS instead of AS.
The funky Metamagic Rager build I was planning takes Blooded Arcane Strike and Riving Strike, the swift action needs to be saved for the Quickened Spells.
That's not exactly advice, Fourshadow. Vital strike is, and always will be, an extremely horrible feat tree.
We all have our own opinions and can share them, correct? It's a game and some of us play it differently. Not all of us are in the Optimal/Min-Max bracket.
All I was saying was that is has synergy with VS. Let's not hijack this thread into a VS validity debate. There are plenty of those elsewhere.|
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And to Demonym, my point was if that if you have a use for swift actions (which I'm not remembering what the Bloodrager I built was using them for) but if they have a use for them besides Arcane Strike it might be more beneficial to take Blooded Arcane Strike instead of Reckless Rage. Also, there are some places where I meant to say BAS instead of AS.
At level 10 and 11 you will do a VERY minor amount of extra average damage with blooded arcane strike over reckless rage (less than 5% damage) if you use your swift action for something other than arcane strike every single round. If you use swift actions say... on half of your turns, then reckless rage wins again (because half those turns will be at +6).
Reckless rage is just a better feat, hands down. The ONLY situation where blooded arcane strike becomes better is if you use your swift actions on other things over three-quarters of your actions during levels 10 and 11 (assuming PFS).
Fourshadow: yes. Everyone has an opinion. This is the advice forum, not the opinion forum.
And to Demonym, my point was if that if you have a use for swift actions (which I'm not remembering what the Bloodrager I built was using them for) but if they have a use for them besides Arcane Strike it might be more beneficial to take Blooded Arcane Strike instead of Reckless Rage. Also, there are some places where I meant to say BAS instead of AS.At level 10 and 11 you will do a VERY minor amount of extra average damage with blooded arcane strike over reckless rage (less than 5% damage) if you use your swift action for something other than arcane strike every single round. If you use swift actions say... on half of your turns, then reckless rage wins again (because half those turns will be at +6).
Reckless rage is just a better feat, hands down. The ONLY situation where blooded arcane strike becomes better is if you use your swift actions on other things over three-quarters of your actions during levels 10 and 11 (assuming PFS).
Fourshadow: yes. Everyone has an opinion. This is the advice forum, not the opinion forum.
The question isn't so simple as you make it out to be I think. The question is really: Does your swift action allow you to do something better than take a -1 penalty to hit and add 3 damage to each attack? I think for most Bloodrager builds the answer is probably no, but that doesn't make it so for every build.
I really need to go back and look at the character I built in Hero Lab and look up what exactly I was using a swift action for, because I recall looking at the two feats and thinking that I wanted to preserve my swift action to use it with something.
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The question is really: Does your swift action allow you to do something better than take a -1 penalty to hit and add 3 damage to each attack? I think for most Bloodrager builds the answer is probly no, but that doesn't make it so for every build.
Im a little confused here. Swift action wise you can either arcane strike or cast a spell. Where do you get -1 +3? Arcane strike has no negative to it. Did you mean reckless rage?
The OP wants a spell eater archetype. I highly recommend p rimalist spell eater arcane blood line. Not for pounce...its another build all together but I recommend @ 12 give up your bloodline power for powerful blow and come and get me. People have been talking up mobile or Vital strike builds focused on squeezing out as much damage in 1 hit. The arcane bloodline is amazing for it.
The reason arcane bloodline is so good is the ability to get the effects of some spells while raging. As a free action you can rage and get displacement or haste. That is very strong for a free action. Also it adds a layer to your defenses. A 50% miss chance is a great thing and will help tremendously to negate DR loss from spell eater archetype as well as the +4 from CaGM.
With the right spells picked and a lesser rod of extend you can have some of the best layer defense and never use your swift action for anything other then arcane strike. Thus I feel bloodied arcane strike is a so so feat but you should be shooting for that big damage.
Another option could be Big game hunter...large creatures are usually a given at 9+. Unless you have a DM who loves just throwing humans at you.
Dont forget raging brutality @ 12. It really is a brutal feat to say the least.
The question is really: Does your swift action allow you to do something better than take a -1 penalty to hit and add 3 damage to each attack? I think for most Bloodrager builds the answer is probly no, but that doesn't make it so for every build.Im a little confused here. Swift action wise you can either arcane strike or cast a spell. Where do you get -1 +3? Arcane strike has no negative to it. Did you mean reckless rage?
Sorry, I guess I should explain better. So the choice is do you take Blooded Arcane Strike (so you don't use up a swift action) or do you take Reckless Rage which effecitvely enhances your Power Attack to have -1 attack more than normal and +2 damage (+3 while two handing which was assumed). Each of these is a feat.
So, is your swift action worth the attack penalty/damage bonus you would have on each hit?
If you have something to do virtually every round with your swift action it may be more valuable to you than possibly an extra 15 damage per round at 20th level with haste. Maybe a bit more with AoO you might get.
To me it's a maybe, especially at lower levels. It just depends on the build.
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Reckless rage isn't a swift action it is applied while raging and power attacking. So it too is a free action.
Basically I see there is very little reason to take bloodied arcane strike as there is nothing to use your swift action on. Other than arcane strike or using a quickened rod and dropping it after buffing as a free action.
So it can easily be said. Reckless Rage > Bloodied arcane strike.
Reckless rage isn't a swift action it is applied while raging and power attacking. So it too is a free action.
Basically I see there is very little reason to take bloodied arcane strike as there is nothing to use your swift action on. Other than arcane strike or using a quickened rod and dropping it after buffing as a free action.
So it can easily be said. Reckless Rage > Bloodied arcane strike.
I am aware reckless rage isn't a swift aciton, but you either get to retain you swift action (by picking up Blooded Arcane Strike) or you get to enhance your Power Attack. Both cost the same thing, one feat slot.
My whole thing has been about supposing you have something useful to do with your swift action, then it is not a clear cut case. From my first post (and please ignore the grammar errors):
Also, if you don't have any [other] uses [besides Arcane Strike] for Swifty acitons then there is no reason to taked Blooded Arcane Strike.
The bold stuff is additional information that I felt was implied form the original post, but wanted to make it more clear.