![]() ![]()
That's a good picture. I don't think it's what I want, but probably on the right path. And thanks for all the help with this silly selfish request, Secret Wizard :) One thing I'd been considering was any picture that I could say had artificial limbs, demon flesh of a sort, to hammer home the twisted nature of the broken soul and make the PCs wonder how they can hate or fight against someone who suffered so much. They're also the sort to try and talk to things. ![]()
Summary: I don't like the idea that antipaladins are focused on destroying Good. That could make more sense for lawful champions of evil, or a fallen paladin, but by default the antipaladin is fueled by chaotic evil powers. Primary contenders for antipaladin use like demons, orcs, and drow do not focus on destroying good and good alone: they destroy anyone or anything in their way. It makes sense that a paladin would focus entirely on destroying evil, as Good people and organizations are more likely to verbally disagree than they are to slaughter each other. Evil though is concerned with strength at any cost. To that end, I wrote an antipaladin archetype based around the fact that evil does not discriminate and that a warrior who channels its energy empowers himself against all foes, not merely the good ones. Often times, in the depths of the Abyss I think being able to subjugate your peers is more important than fighting against the occasional angelic crusade. A final note: I understand that my view of paladin vs antipaladin probably isn't universal. My purpose for this thread is primarily to see if the archetype looks useable. Thanks ahead of time for anyone who takes the time to read this over. Fell Champion Not all antipaladins choose to become the antithesis of good; some instead embody evil in its purest form. These fell champions care not whether their enemies are servants of good or others on a dark path, all that matters is destroying whoever or whatever stands in their way. To a fell champion, power is the only absolute truth. The fell champion archetype is available only to the antipaladin alternate class. Smite Enemy (Su): Once per day, a fell champion can call out to dark powers to crush his foes. As a swift action, a fell champion can choose one target in sight to smite. He adds his antipaladin level on all damage rolls against the target of his smite. The fell champion receives a +1 profane bonus to his attack rolls against the target of his smite if it has interfered with his goals or refused to submit to his will. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the fell champion possesses (to a maximum of +5 at 17th level). The smite enemy effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the fell champion rests and regains uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the fell champion may smite an enemy one additional time per day (to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level). This ability replaces smite good and detect good. Aura of Subjugation (Su): At 11th level, a fell champion can expend two uses of his smite enemy to grant the ability to smite enemy to all allies within 10 feet, except they only gain his bonus to damage, not his smite's attack bonus. Allies must use this smite enemy ability by the start of the fell champion’s next turn and the bonuses last for 1 minute. Using this ability is a free action. Good creatures gain no benefit from this ability. This ability replaces aura of vengeance. Aura of Dominance (Su): At 14th level, as long as a target of smite enemy is within the fell champion’s threatened area, it takes a -2 penalty to AC from attacks made by anyone other than the fell champion. This ability replaces aura of sin. Demonic Ascension: At 20th level, the fell champion fully embodies the power of evil and sheds the last vestiges of his mortality. He is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than a humanoid (or whatever the original creature type was) for the purpose of spells and effects. She gains darkvision 60 feet and low-light vision. Additionally, the fell champion gains damage reduction 10/good which allows him to ignore the first 10 points of damage made by a nongood weapon. Unlike other outsiders the fell champion may still be brought back from the dead as if he were a member of his previous creature type. Finally, whenever he channels negative energy or uses touch or corruption to damage a creature, he deals the maximum possible amount. This ability replaces unholy champion. ![]()
Thanks for everyone who posted here for some advice. I still do not think I'm on-board with hybrid classes being the solution to this, but I do admit that Pathfinder's system is going to make a gestalt-based multiclassing system difficult to pull off. I'm going to shelve this idea for now, but thanks again for the ideas! ![]()
It's been a few days since I've replied here, but I found a couple pictures that I may go with. Being slightly indecisive, I'll post here to see what people think: With one of those three pictures as a basic concept art, I'm up for hearing ideas on a broken soul antipaladin. I'm looking to build her as about a CR 10 character, so maybe about level eight or nine. ![]()
Thanks for the comments guys! The restriction on certain "desirable" combinations is to prevent spellcasting off a single Ability from dominating. I sort of envisioned MAD as a balance issue. I'm not sure taking Fast Learner as a human would be good. It does essentially remove the part about only getting half of your FCB, but it costs a full feat. Assuming hp is a good balance point, Faster Learner could net you +10 hp at level 20, versus Toughness which is +20. The half-elf thing though is strong and I'd have to consider. As far as I know, unchained monk only has two good saves, so it would interact with things the same as cleric would. Snakebite Striker is a Brawler Archetype, which is a Fighter+Monk hybrid. I wouldn't allow this variant multiclassing for any hybrid classes (example being bloodrager/warpriest that would retain good BAB, HD, and get both divine and arcane spellcasting with this). I wouldn't do Alchemist/Wizard either. I also do not intend this to work for all class combinations. I don't think Paladin/Oracle, Paladin/Sorcerer, Monk/Druid, and such are good ideas. They sort of benefit twice from a single Ability more than I had in mind. Specifically, I was only looking at some 2nd Edition combinations, like Fighter/Rogue, Fighter/Cleric, Fighter/Wizard, Cleric/Wizard, and Rogue/Wizard. And finally, the dead 3rd level bothers me too. I'm not familiar with the 0/0 variant though, and I'd be interested in what book it is so I can check it out :) ![]()
To answer the first question, I wanted to know if this seemed greviously unbalanced or all around a bad idea. And to answer you, Johnny, that is exactly what I meant. Both classes gain class features as two levels lower than the character's level. So a 6th level fighter/wizard has HD, BAB, saves, and skills of a 6th level character, but only the class features of a 4th level fighter and 4th level wizard. I got the class features of two levels lower based on splitting XP in half, similar to 2nd Edition. ![]()
Background: I've always liked multiclassing as it was done in 2nd Edition AD&D. I didn't play 3.0/3.5 (moved right to Pathfinder), but as I understand it most of the "dual advancement" was moved to prestige classes like Eldritch Knight or Mystic Theurge. This isn't a problem, it it is a different flavor. The multiclassing in Pathfinder doesn't allow you to advance in two classes at once (even at a slower speed), since you have to pick one or the other to level up. The general poor handling of multiclassing has lead to the hybrid classes, which I think are a good take on the concept in general. So this suggested multiclass variant isn't here to "fix" something since there isn't anything "broken", but just a general idea. "Gestalts" are a concept from a 3.5 book called Unearthed Arcana, if anyone doesn't know, where a character advances with two classes at once and does the best of both. I'd try to do it differently to be balanced along single-class characters. 1 - HD and BAB: Multiclasses have d8 HD and medium BAB progression. If both classes have slow BAB advancement, the multiclass instead has d6 HD and slow BAB advancement. If both classes have fast BAB advancement, the multiclass has d10 HD and fast BAB advancement. 2 - Use the lower of the skill points per level between the two classes as a base. If the other class has higher skill points per level, increase the multiclass's skill points per level by two. Always combine class skill lists. 3 - Gain the good saving throws of each class. No more than two saves can be good for a class (the player picks which save remains bad). For example, a fighter/wizard will have good Fort and Will saves, but a cleric/rogue must pick one of his three saves to be poor. 4 - Gain Favored Class Bonuses at first level, and at every other level the character advances (3, 5, 7, etc). Characters able to favor more than one class instead gain their Favored Class Bonus every level. 5 - The multiclass gains the class features of both classes two levels later than usual. At 1st level, the character must pick the class features from one class to gain. At 2nd level, the character gains the class features for the other class. No class skills are gained at 3rd level. The character progresses normally at 4th level and onwards. 6 - Multiclass characters gain feats at a slower rate. Instead of gaining a feat every other level, multiclass characters gain a feat at 1st level, again at 3rd level, and every three levels afterwards (with seven feats by 18th level). 7 - Multiclass characters are unable to further multiclass, and cannot take prestige classes. Not all combinations of classes are available for multiclass. (For example, an oracle/sorcerer would have significant advantage over a cleric/wizard due to sharing the same casting Ability. May need to be more specific on this rule at some point) The intent is mostly for simple combinations that existed in 2nd edition, like fighter/wizard, cleric/wizard, fighter/rogue, or something else innocuous. Example issues could be the previously mentioned oracle/sorcerer, or doubling up spellcasting with wizard/sorcerer or cleric/oracle. I'll note that this allow for more variety in casting classes that multiclass, since a cleric/wizard would eventually get a CL of 18, versus the mystic theurge that would allow a maximum CL of 15 for each. I also didn't make it with hybrid classes in mind, like a bloodrager/warpriest. I'll clarify that this is just an idea, not something I have plans to use in a game at the moment or a suggesting to fix anything wrong or broken. Thanks head of time to everyone who took the time to read and reply to this thread! ![]()
I'll say right from the start that this is a bit of a selfish thread post, but I was hoping that the community may know of some more resources or in general be more Internet savvy than I am. I'm going to be introducing a broken soul antipaladin in my game, a family member of a PC twisted by the BBEG to be a weapon against the party. What I'd like is concept art or something, but I've had a lot of difficulty finding a picture that could fit such a concept that isn't your standard "sexy" fantasy art. I'm looking for:
To make it a little more fun, we can also discuss stats, tactics, or anything else related to the NPC. The CR is likely between 8 and 10. Thanks ahead of time to anyone who even bothers to read this post, and to anyone who takes the time to reply! ![]()
Jodokai wrote:
This. Otherwise I wouldn't really have this issue, though the problem of enemies using guns would still exist since PCs usually don't have access to the same level of DR as monsters (at least consistently). ![]()
I think am going to have to make a change. The gunslinger has a 95% chance to deal damage with any given attack, way more than PCs should have against enemies of their own CR (or even CR+3). Yes, I admit 100% that there is stuff I could do without changing the rule. But I have BEEN doing this and it's a pain and it isn't fun for me to plan encounters with anymore. I have to literally contrive situations or force magic into encounters that I otherwise wouldn't use it with. I'm not exactly sure what going to do yet. Taking away the advanced firearm is devastating. Taking away touch AC attacking seems the way to go, but I'm going to think on it more before I make a major change. That aside, I've gotten some great advice in this thread, so thank you to everyone who has been helping me figure this out. ![]()
Looking a bit closer, it seems there is still some trouble up ahead. The Expert Loading and Lightning Reload Deeds don't function at all if I remove misfire and allow quicker reloading. However, Lightning Reload is already useless with Rapid Reload and an advanced firearm, and Expert Loading doesn't matter either. Removing misfire also means I have to consider a change to Stranger's Fortune, the Mysterious Stranger Archetype's ability to ignore misfires. ![]()
Thank you for the list, Lincoln. I'll definitely look at it in the future. Though it isn't quite far enough, since it still forces the issue of "need magic to survive guns" and now I have to shove makes in every fight. As for the weapon being stolen, I've contemplated a storyline along those lines, but thus far a fitting situation hasn't come up. Cyrad, I did take a look at your rules. I don't have to add Dex-to-damage for all guns since I've only got one person using them (who already gets it), and I think I would prefer the free action reloads without sucking down a Feat to bonuses to some skills. Archers are powerful and I'd like to compensate the gunslinger for that at least a bit. I was also challenged to make a archery fighter of the same level. If I used the same stats as the gunslinger, the archer does on average 2 more damage per full attack, but has +2 accuracy (Manyshot is the Feat I used to boost this damage). Of course, if I boost the archery fighter's strength to say, 18, he's suddenly doing 14 more damage a hit a round. This is pretty significant, but I do plan on allowing the gunslinger to be able to hit touch AC by spending grit, and there are other useful features the class has to offer (more skills, some free bonuses, etc). I think the extra damage is likely a fair trade for all you'd lose as a gunslinger. But ultimately, I don't have an archery fighter so I'm not concerned with fine-tuning the system. ![]()
Well, I don't have a Musket Master so I'm not really concerned with that archetype. And I agree, changing reload speed is much more painful than removing touch AC. Tentatively, this is what I plan on doing: 1) Firearms attack regular AC.
Please let me know if that sounds reasonable, or if I should attempt to compensate more. Edit: I may also be discounting firearms with the 10% bit. ![]()
So, I would consider tackling the advanced firearms issue, except that we've been playing for a year. It's very late for me to change my mind on something like that at this point. While advanced firearms are rare, they're definitely already established to exist. Edit: One thing I could consider is just putting the reload time at a full-action by default, so that it's still a move action with Rapid Reload. It drops him down to one attack a round which solves all of the issues (single-hit guaranteed for high damage) but would probably be an even harsher nerf than removing touch AC and essentially changing guns into glorified crossbows. ![]()
The simple reason is that be wanted a mysterious wanderer with a cool sniper rifle, and I was (and still am) down with the concept of that. I'm also not sure at this point I can "safely" remove advanced firearms since he's been using the same gun the whole game, and I have established that while rare they do exist. ![]()
I'll see about getting some numbers off the sheet later. Ultimately, it's not even the amount of damage able to be inflicted, it's the reliability of it. Using Deadly Aim and Rapid Shot at level 8 for a -5 penalty should be a significant increase in damage, but when everything goes against touch AC it becomes irrelevant against most creatures. Before Cluster Shot, I had mitigated this with some use of DR time to time, but even that is sort of a band-aid. And if I took Cluster Shot away, it would really hurt his potential to damage monsters while still allowing enemies to hurt the PCs with guns just as well. I do appreciate all of the advice, even if it seems like I didn't need some. I guess I have been "handling it" and probably can continue to, at the expense of encounters starting to look like forced situations. As for the world, guns actually aren't very common. So far gunslinger have come off as a rare thing, though they will encounter enemies with guns during the next adventure. Still, I think it would be really hard to stuff anti-gun amulets on things like monsters they encountered over the course of the mission. I can just keep using walls, or spells, or reach weapons, or anti-ranged features, or whatever in fights, but at that point I have to just continuing targeting the player just for his character. If I don't do that, I leave other players feeling rather underwhelming. And ultimately it's not that the player wanted to damage the game, he just wanted to play a character who used a cool gun. I want to be fair to him and my players, but frankly I rely a lot on not having to hand-made the numbers behind encounters to be able to run the game with a busy schedule and limited planning time. ![]()
So, I'll establish a couple things. Comparing the gunslinger to a longbow fighter is useless. I don't have a longbow fighter. As mentioned, I don't care how it stacks up with the system, I care how it affects my table. Next as far as rules go, I have used cover, soft cover, and the whole slew of penalties. Also yes, "there are things I could do", but I'm looking to tackle the situation without having to plan around this one player. I don't want to punish a player for "being too good". But I don't deserve to be punished by having to do double duty planning encounters just because a writer wrote something incompatible for my table, and other players at the table don't deserve to be up staged all the time too. I do understand that this amounts to an issue that comes back to the game system itself, but that's a problem bigger than I care to fix. I'm more concerned with the immediate effects on my game. Another issue that has made me worry is that I planned encounters for the party against enemies that also use firearms. Using early firearms might have to be an option because of the short range to get touch AC to hit, though I'm wondering if it'll help enough. I'm considering just removing touch AC entirely but allowing the Deadeye Deed to still work for it, and not allow it for a Signature Deed later on, so hitting touch AC is much more limited but still possible, and useful for getting in some iteratives. ![]()
Thanks everyone for feedback! I do want to mention that I'm not looking to fix the system, just this game. I know general "archer" builds are strong and I won't contest or alter that. So as far as using reach and magic to make walls works, that isn't a solution because all it amounts to is "continue planning encounters around the gunslinger" which I am doing but is draining and difficult since I lack a lot of experience and system mastery as a DM. The bit about armor penetration though sounds very useful! Especially since I frequently see monsters with 10+ points of their AC coming from natural armor. Essentially, either attacks on touch AC or Clustered Shots may have to go. Making him contend with normal AC puts meaningful drawbacks on Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim and reels in some damage. Removing Clustered Shots allows me to use DR as a balance point. I am still up for other solutions, as well as comment on which of those issues (touch AC or Clustered Shots) is best to fix to alleviate my headache without ripping apart the character. ![]()
So I've come to a very sticky situation in my PF game regarding balance. It's the case where one combatant skews entire encounters and how I have to plan them. The player isn't doing this on purpose, but the issue still persists. Simply put, his damage output with a Gunslinger is nuts. He has an advanced firearm and Rapid Reload to get off multiple attacks without worrying about ammunition constraints. There are two major issues: He increases damage with Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim almost "freely". Those feats are designed to add extra damage at the expense of accuracy, but his attacks all go to touch AC and thus always hit monsters of their CR unless he rolls a 1. The second issue is Clustered Shots. Even with the above issue, damage reduction kept stuff under control. Now damage reduction is barely a factor. Other people in the party can do a lot of damage, but usually when they do it requires some sort of movement across the map, loss in accuracy and AC to contend with, or requiring the target be evil in the case of the paladin. The gunslinger is doing crazy damage to everything, such that I now plan encounters around him. The party isn't even that high of a level yet. The problem is that I'm not heavily experienced with D&D or Pathfinder, and encounters are more and more difficult to design. I want to see if I can get some suggestions to curb power in an appropriate manner so I planning challenging or fun encounters doesn't require either rigging things against the gunslinger or accepting he will kill anything they cross before the rest of the party has a shot at it. Thanks ahead of time! ![]()
My Pathfinder game is social and centered around a main "hub" location. I think the downtime rules would be good to represent buildings, organizations, and businesses my PCs are interested in building. However, I plan on skipping several months at a time between adventures. My question is if I skip daily events if I could merely contract production to a single roll and multiply the result by number of days. Also, I want to know general recommendations regarding this system, such as fixes for issues or things to watch out for. Thanks ahead of time! ![]()
I have doubts in that interpretation, because in the precious sentence of the gauntlet it uses the term "unarmed strike" and then says "a strike counts as an unarmed attack". It's listed as a light simple weapon, but comes with a special ability that you can use it as an unarmed strike. I'm not doubting the "gauntlet is a weapon like a club" line of thinking, and that may perfectly apply to other punching weapons, but doesn't seem to apply here. Knowing that there isn't an official ruling is probably the only answer I needed. Seeing as how, unlike other punching weapons, the gauntlet is identical to just punching someone normally with Improved Unarmed Strike, all it changes is the magic weapon interaction. So my next question is this: how does magic weapon or magic fang interact when used to grant an enchantment bonus on a weapon that already has an effective +10? ![]()
Thanks again for the replies! Some of the NPCs adventure with the party, and a lot of them have been useful for combat situations in the past but become out-leveled by the PCs, who are gaining experience. Of course I could just say "X levels up" but this is DM fiat, which I want to avoid. I'm looking for a semi-interactive system for the players. (As a side note, while not totally relevant for this conversation, no XP is gained from fighting. It's all quest-based.) Also, Thanael, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about leveling up threats around the PCs. A character with no name and no face is not an NPC, they're scenery. I'm talking about fellow adventurers and companions that interact with and participate in quests alongside the PCs. I also don't need help designing the NPCs or populating the world, though I do appreciate the suggestions. I know this request for suggestions is a bit hard to fill. I want a way to model the companions that work with the party to gain levels over time, without me just deciding that they level up on occasion. ![]()
I am the DM of a game that has a heavy focus on roleplaying and interacting with NPCs: a very social game. One issue that I've run into is when NPCs level up. If NPCs stay at the same level all of the time, it makes characters who were meaningful to interact with rather useless for anything outside of chatting with. However, using "DM fiat" to level up NPCs has some issues that I don't like. It means that if a situation comes along when an NPC would be useful, they're only useful because I leveled them up. And if a situation comes along where an NPC would be useful but is lagging far behind in levels, they aren't useful because I didn't level them up. So essentially, it puts the pressure on me. I don't need a complicated system, but I'm looking for some sort of mechanic or hack I could implement that could sort of fix this for me, by putting the "growth" of NPCs into the hands of the players so that it's a more hands on experience. Thanks ahead of time for suggestions and recommendations! Edit: A thing to point out. Cohorts provide a method of adding in NPCs who level up alongside a PC, but this game has a wide number of NPCs, and while I did want to use cohorts at first it didn't work out as well. ![]()
Thanks for the help so far guys. I have seen the Demon Lords in the Bestiary 4 to use as some examples. They're helpful, but they all basically seem like unique creatures. So I wanted to know some help, I suppose, for figuring out how to plan a unique creature of that magnitude. Whether or not the PCs actually challenge this Demon Lord in a straight up fight or find another way to defeat him isn't my concern at this point in planning stages. I'd also appreciate advice on homered that isn't necessarily mechanics related. ![]()
I'm running a Pathfinder game where the main antagonist is a Demon Lord who destroyed the PC's home planet. While the PCS are more likely to interact with his lesser generals and agents, I do want to give stats to their powerful master both to help me see where higher levels of the game go, and also to know what the Demon Lord is capable of. Is there any advice I can get for statting a high level outsider? Specifically, any ideas about how to know how many SLAs and spells to give him, as well as special abilities? Also general home brew advice would be appreciated. I also want the fight to be fun, so advice on that would be cool too. Thanks ahead of time. ![]()
My apologies for posting in the wrong area. I'm not the player but the Dungeon Master in this instance. The player in question is the traditional sword & board Paladin. The standard way to draw attention in an encounter seems to be "be more dangerous". However, not everyone necessarily wants to assist the party by just getting a bigger and bigger sword, so to speak. So I'm looking for defensive options/suggestions/houseules for him. I'm aware of the Divine Shield Archetype, but it's not quite the "attention drawing" thing that I'm looking for. Any feedback is appreciated! ![]()
Hello Pathfinder messageboard, this is my first post here. A quick background. While I know things relating to 2nd Edition AD&D, I am currently running my first D&D game ever in the form of Pathfinder (previously I just read material). While I'm not new to RPGs, I am new to Pathfinder, d20 System, and D&D in general. In my game we have a Paladin whose goal is to be the team's tank. However, he has some difficulty doing that, namely that there is little that stops enemies from attacking someone else. I'd like to give him some combat options to be able to help him feel like he's helping the group more, but shift his team goal away from inflicting damage and more to defending his allies. There are a few abilities I was interested in to accomplish this. The first would be to block ranged attacks that pass by him, likely spending an AoO to retarget a ranged attack that moves through a square he threatens to make it hit himself. Another idea was to force a particular enemy to attack him. I'm aware of the "Antagonize" feat, though I don't know if it quite gets the job done. If there is existing feats, spells, or abilities that accomplish this better I'd appreciate being pointed towards them. Otherwise, I'd like to see if anyone has an idea regarding a spell/feat/ability or something that I could introduce into the game to help him feel like the team's defender. Any advice and input is appreciated! |