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Hi!
I was´nt very happy with the new Ultimate Combat book. I hoped it would give the Warrior Classes a chance to specialize more. I really love the Maneuver System of the Tome of Battle, so I thought about how to give the Core- and Baseclasses the Ability to use Maneuvers, too.
There for I use the ToB Disciplines, Maneuvers and Stances, and also the feats Martial Study and Martial Stance, but the Charakters can take these feats as often as they like, not just 3 times.
Apart from that, every Non-Fullcaster-Class gets alternate Classfeatures to get more easily on Maneuvers or to use their classlevel as their initiatorlevel:

Barbarian:
The Barbarian looses the abilities Trapfinding, Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge. He can take Martial Study or Martial Stance as a bonusfeat instead of a Ragepower. He can only choose from the disciplines of Desert Wind, Stone Dragon and Tiger Claw and everytime he uses a Meneuver in Ballte, he loses 2 uses of his Rage ability per day. There for he counts his Barbarian level as his initiatorlevel. When he is in a Rage, the DC of his Maneuvers improves by 2.

Bard:
The Bard looses his abilitis Fascinate and Inspire Competence. There for he gets Martial Study or Martial Stance as a bonusfeat on the 1st level, and on every level when his Inspire Competence would have improved. Every use of a Maneuver in battle costs him 2 uses of his Bardic Music ability and he can only choose Maneuvers and Stances from the disciplines Desert Wind, Diamond Mind and White Raven. He counts his Bard Level as his initiatorlevel.

Fighter:
The Fighter can choose to loose Weapontraining I, II, III or IV. Instead he can choose a discipline for which he can count his Fighter Level as his initiatorlevel. Every time he gets Weapontraining, he may choose to instead choose another discipline.
Monk:
The Monk adds Martial Study or Martial Stance to his list of Bonusfeats, but every use of a Maneuver in Battle lets him loose 1 point of his Ki-pool in Battle. If he chooses Maneuvers from the Setting Sun discipline, he counts his Monk Level as his initiatorlevel.

Paladin:
The Paladin looses his ability to cast spells. Instead, every time he gets a new Mercy, he also gets Martial Study or Martial Stance as a Bonusfeat. He must choose from the disciplines Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon or White Raven and his Paladin Level counts as his initiatorlevel.
If he chooses a Maneuver or Stance from Devoted Spirit, he must´nt choose one with the chaos or evil descriptor.

Antipaladin (alternative Paladin):
The Paladin looses his ability to cast spells. Instead, every time he gets a new Cruelty, he also gets Martial Study or Martial Stance as a Bonusfeat. He must choose from the disciplines Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon or White Raven and his Paladin Level counts as his initiatorlevel.
If he chooses a Maneuver or Stance from Devoted Spirit, he must´nt choose one with the good or law descriptor.

...

I originally wrote all this in german, so I will translate the other classes later. Now, do you think these alternate classfeatures would be ok?

Here are the other classes, but only in german:

Schurke:
Der Schurke verzichtet auf seine Fähigkeiten Reflexbewegung, verbesserte Reflexbewegung und Fallengespür. Dafür kann er anstelle eines Schurkentricks auch "Martial Study" oder "Martial Stance" als Bonustalent wählen. Allerdings nur für die Disziplinen Desert Wind, Shadow Hand und Tiger Claw und auch nur, wenn er den Gegner auf dem falschen Fuß erwischt, in die Zange nimmt, oder in einer anderen Situation, in der er auch seinen hinterhältigen Angriff ansetzen kann. Dafür kann er jedoch seine Stufe als Schurke als seine Initiatorstufe anrechnen.

Ninja (alternativer Schurke):
Der Ninja verzichtet auf seine Fähigkeit Reflexbewegung und verbesserte Reflexbewegung. Dafür kann er anstelle eines Ninjatricks auch "Martial Study" oder "Martial Stance" wählen. Für die Disziplin Shadow Hand kann er dabei seine Klassenstufe als Initiatorstufe anrechnen. Jeder Einsatz eines Maneuvers verbraucht einen Ki-Punkt.

Waldläufer:
Der Waldläufer verliert die Fähigkeit zu zaubern. Dafür erhält er auf jeder Stufe auf der er ein Kampfstiltalent erhält zusätzlich das Talent "Martial Study" und "Martail Stance". Er kann nur Maneuver aus den Disziplinen Desert Wind und Tiger Claw wählen. Dafür entspricht aber seine Initiatorstufe seiner Stufe als Waldläufer.

Cavalier:
Der Cavalier kann auf die Fähigkeiten Cavaliers Charge, Greater Charge und Supreme Charge verzichten. Stattdessen kann er auf jeder Stufe auf der er eine neue Anwendung von Challenge bekommt, zusätzlich "Martial Study" oder "Martial Stance" als Talent wählen. Er darf allerdings nur aus den Disziplinen Iron Heart, Stone Dragon und White Raven wählen. Dafür zählt jedoch seine Stufe als Cavalier als seine Initiatorstufe.

Samurai (alternativer Cavalier):
Der Samurai kann auf die Fähigkeiten Resolve, Greater Resolve und True Resolve verzichten. Stattdessen kann er auf jeder Stufe auf der er eine neue Anwendung von Challenge bekommt, zusätzlich "Martial Study" oder "Martial Stance" als Talent wählen. Er darf allerdings nur aus den Disziplinen Iron Heart, Diamond Mind und White Raven wählen. Dafür zählt jedoch seine Stufe als Samurai als seine Initiatorstufe.

Inquisitor:
Der Inquisitor verliert die Fähigkeit Strenger Blick und Solo Taktik. Dafür kann er anstelle eines Teamworktalentes auch "Martial Study" oder "Martial Stance" als Bonustalent wählen. Allerdings ist er auf die Disziplinen Devoted Spirit, Tiger Claw und White Raven beschränkt und er kann Maneruver nur gegen Ziele seiner Fähigkeit Verurteilen anwenden. Dafür rechnet er seine Stufe als Inqusisitor als seine Initiatorstufe an.

Magus:
Der Magus erhlt kein Bonustalent auf Stufe 5, 11 und 17. Anstelle eines Magus Arcana kann der Magus auch "Martial Study" oder "Martial Stance" als Talent nehmen. Jeder Einsatz eines Maneuvers verbraucht jedoch einen Punkt seines Arkanen Pools und er kann seine Stufe als Magus als seine Initiatorstufe anrechnen. Auf Stufe 5 kann er nur eine Disziplin wählen, jedoch kommen auf den Stufen 11 und 17 je eine weitere Disziplin hinzu.


To me the normal Fighter is boring. If I really want to hurt my opponent, I have to use the Full Attack again and again. As a Warblade, I would have so many other options, which are much more fun. And a Warblade does have the 4 skillpoints. So, why should I play a Fighter, when I can play a Warblade? And if there is no good reason, than why saving the not that good, but old concept of the Fighter, instead of giving him new powers, so that he would have a chance against other meeleclasses?
And as a farmer, a fighter would start as a Common...


Hi, I think making PA weaker was not nececary, but it was OK - but only if you give the Fighter a new source of damage! The Barbarian can Rage, the Ranger has his Favoured Enemies an the Paladin can Smite. But what about the Fighter? He needs PA even more than the other meele classes. And this is why there should be more Combatfeats like Devastating Blow, or even much stronger for higher levels. Those Combatfeats should have a lot of requirements, especially other Combatfeats. If that was so, other classes could use one high-end-Combatfeat, but the Fighter, who has all these Bonusfeats, could have much more! I think in D&D 3.5 the Warblade was a much better Fighter. I see that you can not just copy the Warblade, but cool Combatmaneuvers are much more Fun, than the Full Attack Action and if they are are different from each other, you can use them in a tactical way, and that is how Combatfeats should work.
Apart from this, I think it is OK if a Fighter acts like a Fighter in a Game. Beowulf, Leonidas from 300 or Achilles from Troy are perfect examples of Fighters who are just born to Fight. Their skills should all be athletic, thats enough. A Fighter does not need to find Tracks or steal someones Pocket. To me the Fighter has his firm place in the party. Instead of disallow the Fighter, you should disallow (does this word exist in english?) Intelligence scores of 6 or lower. To me, in the meaning of roleplaying, the stupid orc barbarian is the one who can only hit monsters, while a Fighter with Intelligence 10 is really able to help the party with riddles and stuff.


Noooo, I would not really kill him ... just a little ;)
What I wanted to say, is that it is frustrating for a normal Fighter, when he sees, what the Berserker does. It is also frustrating for the Rouge or every other melee Charakter. especially if you get killed by the mad Berserker... But the Warblade in this Gamegroup will allways be the number 2 in the Warrior Ranking, because there if you use all you have and deal about 300 damage while the Berserker only needs a little charge and deals more than 1000 damage is frustrating somehow.
I played a Lion of Talisid to Level 18. Feats were PA and shock trooper, and combined with Divine Might, it was so powerful, that I did more than double the damage of the Fighter. That was why I did not take Jumpattack as a feat, because to double my PA damage again would be much to frustrating, to the DM, the Fighter and all the other players. What job is the better one? To kill the big bad monster or to clear the way for the one who kills the monster? and that all the time! I like to be the one who kills the big one but if everybody else just has to clean the way for me, this is no more teamplay. It´s the game of a Berserker and his slaves.


So,the whole party was completely fixed on the Berserker.The only thing they did, was building a freeway to the big enemy and throw the smaller guys around or grapple them. And that is what I don´t like about the Berserker. With this guy in your team, you will allways be his slave somehow, because the center of every fight is he. what if I wanted to play a fighting Cleric or use more damaging spells with the Wizard? Everything a normal Charakter does seems to be a joke, if you compare it with the damage of the Berserker. If I was the Warblade, I would have killed the Berserker at Night... ;)


And this is a good thing for the fighter. With all those Bonusfeats it should not be a big problem for a fighter to get a lot of Combatfeats, while other classes have other attacks.


Yes, of cause, but they can create Combatfeats, which are as powerful as maneuvers are. They do not have to use the same rule-mechanic, but giving a fighter some powerful tricks, that he can use only once per encounter would change the way of fighting a lot. But as long as PA is the only true source of power, every fighter will use the boring Full Attack to bring his foes down. So if PA is not that effective anymore, a fighter has to look for some other ways of doing a lot of damage. The point is, that right now there exist no such other ways. It is like you said: 1 - 1 = 0 , so the + 1 should be better Combatfeats.


But the very best Maneuvers from Book of Nine Swords are much stronger than this. For example the last maneuver from the Tiger Claw Style: You make a Jumpcheck (DC is AC of the enemy) and then an Attackroll. If both hit, your enemy must make a fortitude save. If he fails, he is instandly slain, death! If he succeeds you instead deal + 20W6 Damage. I think this kind of Attack is really cool and dangerous, too. Other Maneuvers give you a Double Full Attack in one Round, or an Attack that does 2W6 constitutiondamage. So there are a lot of good maneuvers, which you can choose, but normally you can use them only once per encounter. And that is what I like about the Book of Nine Swords. If your in Battle with a 3.5 Fighter you go to the enemy and use the Full Attack until he is dead or you are. That is boring, so PA like it is in 3.5, is the best way for a fighter to do a lot of damage, but if you can choose between this option and many others that do the same amount of damage or a little less, but give you another bonus, to AC for example, than you must choose and fight with tactics. This is why the new Combatfeats should do more damage, while PA should be less strong, in my opinion.


Yes, PA is not overpowered at all, but there are all these charger and Barbarianbuilds, that are based on PA. So the one way ist to change everyhing, that gives you the chance of such a build, but the other is to change PA. To me it would be better, if PA was less dangerous, but instead the new Combat Feats should become more dangerous. On high levels they should give high bonusdamage, like the Diamond Nightmare blade or strike of perfect clarity, from the book of nine swords. I think these classes show how you could do high damage, with out using a charge with full PA.


I think, changing PA was not as good, as it could be, but they had to change the fact that in 3.5 you were able to create all these crazy combinations of feats and prestigeclasses that were based on PA. To me the reason to change PA would be to destroy the completly overpowerded combinations of the Shocktrooper feat, the lion of Talisid, the Berserker, Eye of Grumsh,... Sadly the most of these builds have such a high strenght-score, that PA is still as good as it was before. Only for the poor fighter, who needs PA to put out some damage, it is fatal!
Apart of that I like that Pathfinder brings us new feats like those based on Overhandchop or Vital Strike. I never liked the spiked chain and these tripmonkeys, because it was always the same and I did not like the style of such a fighter. So I´m looking forward for the new rules for trip and disarm and so on.
But if you take something from the fighter, a very weak class in 3.5, and you give every class something good in return without taking something from them, you have to give back something to the fighter! OK, he has some new cool stuff, but in the end he is weaker than before, while the wizard is even more powerful! The new fighter should at least have the same power, like the warblade from The Book of Nine Swords. I love this class, because it gives you an individual fightingstyle, without making a cripple out of your fighter. Overhandcop or Vital Strike are steps in right direction, but there must be more such cool combatfeats and they need to be more powerful, then a normal full attack.
To me a fighter of level 15 or higher, who survives a bite of a T-Rex and who just cuts his way throu the belly of the beast, after he has been swallowed, should have massive attacks in meele. It´s cool to use a full round and just make one blow, but this blow, which needs about 6 seconds, has to be really powerful. If it´s not, than no fighter would learn such a feat and instead use the boring full attack action.

So in the end the change of PA is OK, but then the new combatfeats need to be more exiting.


If you used Power Attack how it was meant to be, it was OK. Just if you connected it with other Feats or Prestige-classes like the Berserker,it bekame broken. But if you generate the crazy Berserker with Pathfinder-Rules, it ist still a God-killing combination. For a Berserker, a high Strength is still no Problem. So you punish the good old Fighter and help the crazy Berserker. So, what about this:

Power Attack:
As described in the 3.5 PHB, but you can only use the half of your BAB.

new Feats:

Improved Power Attack:
Prequisite: Power Attack, BAB +6
For every -1 on your Attackroll you get +1.5 on Damage or +3 if you use it with both Hands.

Supreme Power Attack:
Prequisite: Improved Power Attack, BAB +16
For every -1 on your Attackroll you get +2 on Damage or +4 if you use it with both Hands.

In the End, the Berserker would just get these two Feats for free, but a Fighter can get them, too. But a Bonusdamage of +40 would be the most a Berserker or Fighter can do, not +80! Appart from that the High Strength of the Berserker does not help him that much, because a Fighter, whose Strenght is much lower, could now get much Bonusdamage for low Attack-Penalty.