Danjal's page

And therein lies the problem.

A large group of people seem convinced that the former would exclude the latter. If you don't know the spell, then you can't use a scroll or alternate source of casting it for the creation of Spell-trigger and Spell-completion items. Only for Wondrous and Arms or Armour.

However that CRB FAQ seems to imply that meeting the requirements on Spell-trigger and Spell-completion items merely excludes the possibility of substitution with a +5DC. And does not exclude using alternate sources to meet the requirement.

Thanks for the response Entryhazard. Would you happen to have an official source for that or is that your interpretation?

The interpretations seem somewhat mixed and contradictory at the moment.

No, it was FAQ that if the spell did not add to your known you couldn't cast it. So the wording ensures you can.

I'm not sure I follow. The ability specifically states that it enables you to cast.

It would be rather odd if there was an ability that enables you to cast - but only if you already know the spell... Otherwise you're out of luck.

Any 'clarification' would be redundant in that regard as the whole point of the ability is enabling you to cast spells from those lists when activated.

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Plus that doesn't clarify that you can't apply it the other way around.

I'd love to see an official ruling on this instead of "I think that" scenarios.

Magic items (wands/scrolls etc) enable you to cast a spell. *period* No further clarification or justification needed.

The fact that both Spell Kenning and Spell Study mention "as if known" seems to imply something more. Or is a very strange and redundant addition.

The "Spell Kenning" and "Spell Study" abilities for this class and archetype allow both classes to cast spells from outside their original spell list.

The entry specifically states it as:

- Once per day, a skald can cast any spell on the bard, cleric, or sorcerer/wizard spell list as if it were one of his skald spells known, expending a skald spell slot of the same spell level to cast the desired spell.

- Once per day, a spell sage can spontaneously cast any spell on the bard, cleric, or druid spell list as if it were a wizard spell he knew and had prepared.

If this ability would just mean that they can cast the spell and done. Then the "as if it were a spell known" seems redundant.

Does this mean that they can utilize Spell Kenning / Spell Study for the creation of Wands and Scrolls fulfilling the requirement of knowing the spell by expending their use of Spell Kenning / Spell Study in the creation process?

Knowing they will still need UMD to activate these items afterwards?