Ctuchik's page

IMHO

It doesn't say "when yadayada, you gain the divine skill".
It says "Gain the Divine Skill equal to your craft", i. e. you have the skill, all the time, period. So indeed you have it for purpose of all powers that say "if you have the divine skill". In particular, for recharging spells.

Actually it would have been clearer if written as two separate powers (since they actuallya re independent), but in order to get access to both with a single power feat, the ";" was better.

I was thinking something along these lines as well. Is there any documentation anywhere that would support this argument?

Essentially I'm curious if Paizo has put out a specific way that skills are gained. I know I looked, but I didn't see anything.

Really appreciate the feedback from both you and skizzerz

I recently took a card Power Feat on Mogmurch - Firesolver that we weren't able to agree on how to play.

Here is the wording:

"Gain the Divine Skill equal to your craft; when you make a divine check, discard the top card of your deck or recharge a blessing."

So, it boils down to 1 of 2 ways to play it.

Option 1:

Mogmurch has the Divine skill outright and can play Divine Spells and recharge them. When making the check to recharge he would have to discard from the top of his deck or recharge a blessing.

Option 2:

Mogmurch has the Divine skill ONLY when making a Divine check. This would give him an extra check to gain boons and defeat monsters, but would not allow him to play Divine Spells AND recharge them. When the spells verbage would check to see if you have a Divine Skill, he would not have it at that time as the check to recharge comes after the check for the skill.

If someone could help us with this distinction I would greatly appreciate it.

I believe she also has to feed it to her familiar in the form of a potion. As in disolving the scroll into a brew. I may be wrong, but I swear I've read that somewhere.

Ctuchik wrote:

Can you declare use of Elemental Fist before an attack of opportunity or trigger effects?

Just curious, I would think no, but one of my players is playing a monk and I wouldn't want to deny him damage due to my ignorance.

Thanks in advance for your time.

it looks to be a free action, but normally free actions can only be preformed on your turn.

Ahhh, this would make the most sense. I can also see it being more balanced that way. It's just late and I'm letting a PC re-roll his monk with the new Ultimate Combat material. So much elemental fist ><

Can you declare use of Elemental Fist before an attack of opportunity or trigger effects?

Just curious, I would think no, but one of my players is playing a monk and I wouldn't want to deny him damage due to my ignorance.

Thanks in advance for your time.

Another thought would be going 3 levels of Ninja instead of rogue and then taking the Ninja trick Vanishing Trick (gives invisibility as a swift action).

You could also go Bard(sandman) or Alchemist (Vivisectionist) for the sneak attack.

Unfortunately the Sandman only gets a sneak attack di every 5th level which is too slow to go arcane trickster early. Vivisectionist gets it quick enough, but the alchemist is such a niche class, it's really only made to multiclass with master chemist.

I'm not finding the spell selection with him that I would like. They are mostly self buffs and poisons. I thought the sneak attack and bombs would be cool but one replaces the other...so no go. Otherwise I would just roll vivisectionist and instead of rays use bombs.

Oh well, looks like rogue/wizard is still what I'm doing. I don't have ultimate combat yet, but if Ninja is promising then I shall sub that in for the levels of rogue.

Grease is an amazing spell even later in game. Even if you can't get the foe to drop his weapon or fall, the square/item/person is flammable for several round afterward.

Alot of your generic utility spells like fogs are also nice as they maintain their function.

Also anything that can give negative effects like Ray of Exhaustion. Exhausted is still exhausted even at lvl 20.

Most of the wall spells also fall into this category. Being able to spring up walls of iron/wind/etc. and dividing the battlefield to your advantage is huge. Pits are much the same way, but you've already mentioned spike pit.

Arcane trickster is a poor choice, but that is up to you.

1) Vanish/Invisibility will only provide SA for the first ray of multiple ray spells like scorching ray.

2) You're going to be feat starved - Improved Initative, Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot are all necessary.

3) You have to be able to cast a 2nd level arcane spell, so you qualify for the class with only 3 levels of wizard.

I would suggest that you take a look at the Witch class because I suspect that there are some good opportunities to use the new base classes instead of the old core ones in prestige classes/builds.

The witch seems interesting, but I don't see her as being as powerful offensively as the levels of wizard. I would only get 2 hex's until I finished my levels of Arcane Trickster. Also her spell list isn't anywhere near the wizards, and there are less spells where sneak attack would apply. I would almost be using arcane blast exclusively for ranged damage.

On the other hand, she has a lot more utility than anticipated and likely beats a wizard out on this if you are multiclassing.

As of right now though, I would maintain wizard unless you can show me how to make her spells work effectively with sneak attack.

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Feat= Reach spell. Turns any damaging spell into a ray

There's also Arcane Blast, which I believe works with ANY spell, but only deals (I think) a d6 for each spell level-- Reach Spell would likely do more damage depending on the spell used, but Arcane Blast basically lets you spontaneously cast damaging rays.

That's actually pretty awesome and something I hadn't considered. Arcane Blast is on par with scorching ray and rays of the same level until you get the second ray from the spell. It would also allow me to have more utility spells that can be converted into offense firepower if they were unneeded.

Ctuchik wrote:

What I'm wanting to do is create an Arcane Trickster that uses ray attacks to deal sneak attack damage. It seems like a relatively natural progression, but I'm just curious about a few things.

Generally (and I'm aware some others disagree): playing Arcane Trickster for damage is a trap. It takes well into the midlevels to really even get going, and so, so many stars have to align for the ray/sneak thing to A) work very effectively and B) be a better idea than a hundred other options you have in combat.

I know it's not an optimal combat build. The character would be for flavor, and is the best way I can figure to do a skill monkey rogue and still be combat effective. I figure using touch attacks every round will help with the 2 lost levels of BAB.

also with vanish, invis, and greater invis, i think I will be able to get sneak attacks no problem. Also nondetection i think? will aid in this.

ALSO Thank you all for the insight, they were all great points.

And especially thanks lostpike for answering each and every point I had. I figured the range steal would be a large negative, but if it's something I'm going to do I will enhance it with feats.

What I'm wanting to do is create an Arcane Trickster that uses ray attacks to deal sneak attack damage. It seems like a relatively natural progression, but I'm just curious about a few things.

1)Is sorcerer or Wizard going to be better?

2)Will vanish/invisibility allow the sneak attack die to hit?

3)how would you split the levels or rogue/(sorcerer or wizard)?

4) can you use steal in combat at range?

5) what feats would you get to improve rays/ and do combat feats affect rays?

Thanks for your time in advance.

Another idea is to have a dragon based on one of the elements. The dragon can be in the center room or "loot room." Then have the rest of the dungeon protected by kobolds.(who obviously worship the dragon as their god.)

Google Tucker's Kobolds for some ingenious ideas on how to turn some very low CR monsters into the most hellish nightmare imaginable.

I'm with frogboy on this one. Concept is going to be highly important before trying to optimize. I'll agree conjuration is probably the most powerful when talking raw power, but there are lots of other utility to be had.

Another thing to keep in mind is if wizard isn't your main class. for instance if you were going arcane archer, metal wizard might be where it's at. they get gravity bow at level 1 and that's really all the wizard you need to become an arcane archer. You can only cast 5th level spells with wizard 1/fighter(etc)6/arcane archer 10 but that's just fine with a metal wizard, since most of the spells you cast are self target and utilitarian.

sorry kind of went off on my own segment of a character i'd like to create.

p.s. the metal wizard is from ultimate magic.

It seems like it should work, since explosive runes allows for spell resistance and is of 4th level or lower. Note that Explosive Runes though is not on the cleric spell list unless you have the Rune domain, so a cleric wouldn't be able to cast the spell himself w/o that domain. However, a cleric could cast Spell Immunity on a wizard, who could proceed to cast Explosive Runes in melee if you wish.

Also, as for your backup, I think summon monster would work better with suicide bomber types than followers. Remember that causing the death of your followers negatively impacts your Leadership score.

That's what I was hoping to do. (rune domain). Also I'm just curious if let's say the cleric is derranged and the suicide bombers believe that doing this will benefit them positively in the after life, would it really negatively effect the score?

Basicly I'm wanting to make a cultist leader, possibly cleric, that uses the explosive runes technique in melee range. I'm hoping to use spell immunity to pull it off, but I'm not sure if the rules allow for that. I have all the story elements worked out, but i don't want to flex the rules too hard, and I like my players to be able to do anything I can. So I would really like to stay within the confines of the printed text and make this work. Any thoughts/or suggestions would be helpful.

P.S. the backup plan is the leadership feat, with suicide bombers.

ok, basicly I have two questions regarding Explosive Runes:

1) Can it be written on an individual, as in a tattoo?
not a big deal if it can't it's just a curiosity.

2)Does spell immunity work on Explosive Runes?

P.S. No I'm not just being a jerk I have a very neat roleplay/storyline idea for this.

Even with silent and still spell, there are people on these boards that will tell you the spell can still be identified with a simple skill check with no increase to the DC. I disagree (you can't identify what you don't see), but you may want to check with your GM.

Well depends on the check. As a GM I would allow an arcana check or a knowledge (lets say local) check to see if the NPC realizes that something is wrong. The main power in illusions is to make the person under its effects believe. So even if you were out of visible range for me to percieve you casting, if my senses or mind were sharp enough I would notice incorrect items in the terrain. So I both agree and disagree with the increase to the DC. It depends on the check they are making and if the NPC/PC would truly be aware of what's happening.

As master spy you are basicly playing a skill monkey rogue that specializes in disguise and bluff. It seems like more of an role playing class that can assassinate well. Just be aware of what kind of campaign you're walking into. I was really passionate about wanting to roll a master spy, but after talking to my GM and the way I wanted to play it, we both agreed that I would be having 2 hour monologues while everyone else twiddled their thumbs. It's a very hard class to work into a group, and it's really designed more for solo work and information trafficking. Which in most cases a bard can fill those spots and still be more party viable.

You are probably going to have to go even more finite with what you want to do illusion wise. For instance, you could change the view of the battlefield for the enemies, or "wall them off" from each other with proper illusions.

You can create monsters, landscapes, there are near limitless possibilites. So Exactly how are you wanting to affect combat? Once you know that, picking up the proper spells should be easy. Also You are probably going to want to branch into some other magic, even if it's just utility. If there is an enemy with high will, they are going to be saving against most of your illusions.

last year I ran a special one-shot game that was basically a game where the PC's were trapped in a mansion and had to hold out against a horde of zombies for a whole night.

I'd like to do something different this year, but I don't know what. Any ideas?

Last year my DM ran a really cool one-shot game, where he created a bunch of villians from horror movies and let us play them out. So it was essentially, an evil campaign. We had a specific purpose like collecting souls or something for a main villian (our boss) so that we would still have a teamwork component instead of everyone just running around killing everything. But mostly we just killed helpless town folk and the town guard. As we had 90% completed our objective some "heroes" showed up and we had to defeat them in a final battle to finish our dastardly plot.

The main point was to kill the townsfolk in the most imaginative ways possible. For instance one of the guys was playing a Jason themed character, that used a bear trap to lure in multiple NPC's to the injured/trapped one. Pretty much the same way it's done in movies.

I'm not sure how long the campaign lasts, but if you want an early game effective half-orc ranger, you could always go aspect of the beast and pick the toothy trait to have 3 natural attacks at level 2. Then you get into rending claws and so on and so forth. It's really powerful in the early levels, but after level 10 it starts to peter out. Just depends on what you are trying to do, but with the proper combat feats it could be decent damage even up to level 15. Past that is going to be pushing it.

Also, I'm unsure if razor tusk and toothy would stack.....I think they are both bite attacks, but I can't remember.

No, you can't.

"Whenever you use feint to cause an opponent
to lose his Dexterity bonus, he loses that bonus until the beginning of your next turn [...]"

The benefit can be used by your allies, but is almost useless to you (but could be useful for AoO's). That feat is nice for teamwork, that's all.

Yeah, but in the feat doesn't it also say it applies to your next attack?

Benefit: Whenever you use feint to cause an opponent
to lose his Dexterity bonus, he loses that bonus until the
beginning of your next turn, in addition to losing his
Dexterity bonus against your next attack.

One more question.....could you use vital strike to pump out damage while restealthing? I know you aren't wanting to be the "main focus", but at the same time, I wouldn't want to be last on the list. Also from reading the stealth skill stuff in the book/specifcally snipe (Thank you raving dork) if they can't percieve you.... then technically they can't focus you.

Sure you could, but you would always be out in the open getting targeted BECAUSE you are doing so much damage.

Not exactly a sniper, which is what the OP was asking for.

Is there a formula for "aggro" as it were? Or is it just less likely that the GM will send the hounds?

Also what is the exact mechanic for sniping? I can't find it in the core rulebook or APG. Granted I'm still relatively new to pathfinder so I may just be looking in the wrong spot.

Couldn't you use greater feint/snipe to alternate the rounds in which you will do omega damage?

Kyle Drown was talking about the difference between 46d6 vs 14d6, couldn't you with greater feint, full round attack(46d6), greater feint+attack(14d6), full round attack again(46d6), or am I missing something?

Yeah don't get me wrong: Assumption is a wonderful ability -- for an NPC. Getting it to work, and in a situation that you can use it, as a PC without GM fiat screwing you over (or GM metagaming as I generally like to call it) or leaving your friends bored from waiting for you to finish your three hour solo mission can be tricky in the extreme.

Bard is the one class I would go into master spy as soon as possible with -- you really don't lose much (if anything) and it gets better as you go on.

IF you want something else to follow the master spy up with (currently going to master spy 9 you are looking at having a level left) I would suggest either assassin (which increases your death attack DC, sneak attack, etc) or arcane trickster (since you qualify with bard levels alone). If you really want to Arcane archer for a level could be decent since it gives full armor and weapon proficiency to you, while dragon disciple offers some slight perks as well (get a robe of arcane heritage so you could as sorcerer level 5 for your bloodline powers).

I was actually thinking the same thing for the Assassin level to fill in the last blank, but Arcane Trickster is something I hadn't thought of, and could possibly fit the class better. I'll just have to see if I think I'm hurting more for damage or skills/roleplay.

On the choice of entry level, I would note that you will only reach (about) 17th level in Kingmaker.

That is going to change the way I do things drasticly. Hmmmm much to think about then. Much ponderings.

Anyway Abraham, I've got a lot to chew on now. Honestly for specifically Kingmaker I will likely take the sandman idea so that I can front load and get to Master Spy with a quickness. The only thing is that I think Assumption could be very powerful in Kingmaker, especially if I want to kill someone off and assume their position for a time.

But yes, the mind blank is the greatest ability bar none....I just have a hard time convincing myself to not grab the last ability.

I'm a bit late to this thread but I have been looking over the master spy quite a bit and think the following could be some excellent ways to go into it:

Empty hand monk -- You don't really need weapons in this case since everything you find is potentially a weapon. The lack of armor needed combined with the fact that you are going to want a decent wisdom score anyways means that you can stay in your pretty clothes or disguise and still be prepared for a fight. The death attack and sneak attack damage you'll pick up from master spy helps combined nicely with your many attacks. I would suggest going to 8th level in monk before going into master spy so you get your virtual Improved two weapon fighting. While the monk is normally pretty MAD already the fact that you'll pick up some sneak attack means you can afford a bit lower strength than normal. I would suggest piranha strike instead of power attack with this build since it's a dex based feat.

Urban Druid -- Ok this gives you everything you're going to want except trapfinding. At level 6 you get at will unlimited alter self spell access -- forget the disguise kit this gets the job done for you! Level 8 brings in wild shape for those times where a humanoid disguise just won't cut it and level nine gives out right immunity to most enchantment spells. Combined with spell casting you are a versitle jack in the box ready to give the party what it needs when it needs it. The fact you have medium BAB and are again getting sneak attack and death attack helps with the fact you are going to give up spell access when you go into master spy (in fact that mid level spell access can help you better disguise yourself as a cleric/oracle or wizard). You'll need to be very tactical with your abilities with this build though -- you have spells but at higher levels not so much -- you have BAB... but not much to back it up, so plan carefully for different things to do in combat -- look for opportunities to set your allies up or delay the opponent since...

Actually that is some pretty awesome advice, I think I'm either going to roll empty hand monk, investigator rogue, or possibly a fighter (obviously will make up the most for my lack of combat prowess). Mostly I'm working on which feats I need to pick up now to make this happen.

The only other thing I'm curious about, is at what level would be the best for transition into Master Spy. I know I can't go before lvl 7 b/c of the requirements, but should I just wait for 10 levels of one class and then switch over or make the switch as early as possible?

Honestly, and I'm not 100% sure this is doable, but I'd like to go:

5 levels rogue (Investigator)
2 levels assassin
10 levels master spy
3 levels assassin

Is it legal to go 2 prestige classes?

Also I was thinking something along these lines for the stats:

(using 22 point buy.....rollover from d&d 4e, I'm assuming that's what he'll continue to use)

8 str
13 con
16 dex (+2 racial//assuming human)
16 int
10 wis
14 cha

That should give me plenty of skill points to pull off all my checks, and enough dex to be effective in combat with weapon finesse)

The other option I was thinking was maybe 7 rogue/ 10 master spy/ 3 rogue.

I'm just not sure what is allowed and what will or won't work.

Any thoughts/comments/feedback is greatly appreciated, and I take constructive criticism well, so fire away.

Actually halfling is looking more attractive with feats like: Well-Prepared.

Again though, I don't know what is feasible in kingmaker.

I don't have any direct advice for you (as I haven't read the class), but I was talking with Russ Taylor about this class at PaizoCon (he wrote it), and I believe we specifically discussed how it would be quite a good class in Kingmaker, potentially.

My suggestion - hedge your bet. The class (from what I know) is pretty effective at what it does - you won't need to bury too much into making them even better. And disguise/stealth is only two skills (with perhaps Bluff/Disable making four) - even a cleric could keep those maxed if needed.

For weapons, the simple dagger is quite useful: melee, thrown, +4 to sleight of hand checks to hide it on your person, finessable, pierce/slash.

I think you are correct on the dagger, It's pretty much the only feasible weapon for sneaking around with. I'm trying to figure my stats out. I believe he will go with a 21 point buy if it's anything like our old 4e sessions. I'm thinking I'll need high int for the skills (I need disguise, bluff, perception, disable, stealth for sure, and Diplomacy and I may have left out a few others: probably slieght of hand and sense motive etc. etc.)

I'm thinking that my best bet at being deadly is just going to be to abuse Death Attack. I'll just need a high attack bonus and good Int.

I was also thinking of being a nonhuman class so I could grab either Childlike or Pass for Human. I don't know which I would go, I think I'll ask my DM. I have only scraped on the Kingmaker module, b/c I didn't want to cheat myself the experience.

Also I was thinking maybe leadership....that way I could have a "spy network"

We'll see.

My DM is has been pretty brutal in the past, and we were playing 4th edition before. For practically no reason he has switched to pathfinder (which i'm kind of stoked about, I've been playing a pathfinder campaign on and off for about 7 months already.

Most of the time his sessions are very combat heavy and we aren't generally supposed to live through them. He says with the new pathfinder module, Kingmaker, that he is going to make roleplaying a much larger part of it.

I was looking at Master spy and really want to make that class work(I think it would be especially fun with kingmaker....I've done some small research), but I'm confused as to how I can class into it effectively and still do good damage. I know (rotting feeling in my gut) that if i go heavy roleplay with the disguise and stealth alone I'm going to get chewed up.

Anyone have any ideas as to how to make the Master Spy extremely deadly?

I'm up for any weapon set or feats. I am picking the class b/c I know it will be fun to roleplay, and combat has never really been my strength.

I'm going; 25 point buy; Level 7; probably a APG rogue but I'm open to suggestions.... I like dwarfs but I know everyone is going to say go human or elf.

I'm only using the core rule book and the APG

I need help with deciding on feat trees

Class options

Item options

also any other comments are welcome as long as they are constructive.

The only thing to be careful of is that sneak attack damage is hard to trigger with ranged weapons.

Were you looking to go all rogue, or multiclass with ranger?

The other thing I'm curious about is are you trying to make the sniper more of a lone survivor/scout for roleplay, or are you more concerned with damage.

I could think of alot of fun things to do with stealth/disguise and maybe 4-rogue/6-ranger/10-master spy