Anevia Tirablade

CrimsonVixen's page

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Tacticslion wrote:
So, I'm curious if anyone here has personally done any research with Nocticula or Shamira? I mean, patronage of such famous individuals would go a long way towards helping the... prestige of research!

All future research involving Nocticula has run into a tiny little roadblock. Having unlimited cosmic power makes quantified data difficult to acquire.


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In an ask James thread, it was stated that Sorshen is generally amused by a PC in a clone body(either from that trap, or the campaign trait). In this book, during part 3,

Spoiler:
Sorshen seems quite the extroverted playful social creature, however she is not looking like herself due to the agents against her. Would she want the PC-clone to disguise herself as well? Would the Peacock cultists still wait until Midnight to attack with a PC-clone running around all evening?

I picture Sorshen being quite content letting the PC-clone be the fall-girl body-double. I also get the feeling she'd not be above playing 'twin shenanigans' with the other party goers(think "Freaky Friday" type pranks).


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Lathiira wrote:
I'll volunteer for that test Crimson!

Would this need to be in a PbP forum, or the PF2 Playtest forum?

It looks like enervation 1 is automatic with each kiss, and it's a DC 21 will save to avoid being affected by a suggestion to submit to me. Though I can't tell if there'd be a penalty for the suggestion being something you'd already be willing to do.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Timothy Ferdinand wrote:
So it seems (from various comments at Gencon and the entry on deities in the Players guide for this AP) that Nocticula is on the verge of ascending to Godhood (or should that be Goddesshood?) as a Chaotic Neutral - redeemed at last, but by whom......I'm assuming that this is a tale that draws from the book God's Demon and that someone has helped Nocticula on her path to redemption......maybe Shamira was sent by Sarenrae......??
Redeemed by herself, for the most part.

And here, some of us had the mental image of Nocticula and Sorshen lounging in the Eye of Desire sipping margaritas while chatting about redemption paths.


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Adjoint wrote:

From another thread, a thing to consider:

RealAlchemy wrote:
Can a monk succubus do a flurry of kisses and drain at amazing speed?

Flurry of Blows uses unarmed strikes, while Passionate Kiss is an offensive ability. As a GM, I'm not quite sure if I'd house-rule it or not, though I like the idea of a 'making out' trick for a succubus monk, give up the other actions to do multiple kisses in a round, maybe with a bite attack? (Which the Succubus totally needs, 1d4-1, non-lethal, piercing and counts as an act of passion for Passionate Kiss).


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Cthulhudrew wrote:
Ha! I think it would be great to have (or be) a GM who approves the Accidental Clone trait for the entire party! That is a fun one.

That would make for a very awkward meeting with the original herself.

On another note, Redeemed Nocty!!! Makes me so happy! I looked at her domains granted and my first thought was "Mid-2000's goth" and giggled. Now the question is, who is the new Queen of the Succubi(Not Sorshen???), and is there any meaning behind a seven pointed star crown in her symbol? Nocticula, patron deity of Sorshen's New Thassilon???


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James Jacobs wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Eh, kinda strange seeing Xanderghul being more of a libertine than Sorshen, but otherwise very nice images!

That is, in fact...

** spoiler omitted **

Wait, does this mean that

Spoiler:
The Runelord's schools are shuffling, or are being taken over? Taking a closer look at the Sorshen picture(who didn't...) Is that a coin-purse in her hand and Karzoug's ponytail on her guisarme???

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*Digs out the new playtest books and makes herself comfortable.* Let's see here...Lust Demon. Looks like we get a nice little buff. Diplomacy rather than Athletics to grapple. If you're willing, it's automatic. And we have a charming aura that doesn't have a save. I guess we're just that hot now.


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I assure you Cevah, I ensure my work meets every standard of academic rigor. If you wish to verify the integrity and honor of my work, I am sure a closer examination can be arraigned. What's the CMD of a level 13 merchant again? :)


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Lathiira wrote:
Well, if you want some help with that, I'm willing to assist, if you ask nicely....

Pretty please with a Grease spell on top?


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Poses are available to be done, perk of being able to change shape. As for wandering off, it's hard work to find Sorshen clones these days!


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Cevah wrote:
Shiroi wrote:
Has anyone considered the possibility of what kind of negatives the druid would take and how long they might survive when grappling a succubus underwater?

Who added the *potion of bubbles?

/cevah

*well at least they are getting clean

This sounds like a job for that Half-succubus Merfolk Boreal-Sorceress I rolled up.


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The Fiend Fantastic wrote:
CrimsonVixen wrote:
Cuddling is an act of comfort, not of passion.

We're talking succubi in grapples....

Grapple = hold onto.
Cuddling and hugging = milder version of holding onto.

Step 1: The false sense of safety.
Step 2: She then grips you tight.....
Step 3: Level drain!

Grapple = Grabbing onto someone and doing some wrasslin'

Cuddling and Hugging = rolling a nat 1 on your CMB check.


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The Fiend Fantastic wrote:

Heh, and then she holds you longer than that timespan, cause you're so cuddly.

PASSION-ALITY!!

Cuddling is an act of comfort, not of passion.


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And that little discovery just might make certain encounters trivial.

Spoiler:
In Rise of the Runelords, when you need to get the component to make a Dominant weapon, instead of killing the succubus Mistress or gambling on saves, just use a Wish or Limited Wish to get a few minutes of immortality, rendering you immune to the Energy Drain effect, and then enjoy the 2d10 rounds of 'payment'.


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Well well well, while getting ready for the testing, I just noticed, the energy drain RAW states "mortal", not "target". This brings up some interesting complications for and against existing arguments.

All too often BBEGs have immortality, therefore would not qualify as 'mortal'. Also, I believe a couple APs are broken by this, due to the energy drain being the specific challenge to deal with despite immortality/non-mortality.


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Lathiira wrote:
Cevah wrote:

While I know you arn't hiding anything, especially while doing research, you will when you start the wrapping up.

Enjoyable to do business with you ladies.

/cevah

Good to do a bit of business with you too Cevah.

OK Crimson, shall we?

I believe we shall. Are you preordering the Playtest, or just going with the PDF?


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Cevah wrote:
Lathiira wrote:
OK, we got Pathfinder 2.0 on the horizon, so if we're gonna answer any more questions, I think we need to get crackin' and wrap this up in time for the playtest!

If you are going to be wrapping each other up, can I get the concession stand rights? I think I have some new magic item elixirs, potions, and such to add to the mix.

/cevah

I wasn't aware you had lost the concession stand rights, but if you wish to renegotiate your fee...

willuwontu wrote:
If the said succubus drinks an elixir of sex shift while grappling, do they turn into an incubus?

Outsiders do not have a specific gender, Demons don't as well, made of Abyssal whatever, that determines how they reproduce or spread. So the elixir would not affect a Succubus. Succubi can take a male humanoid form, and several in Paizo Scenarios and APs have done so. Now of course a succubus in human form could drink the elixir and Change Shape to the opposite gender and make the others believe it affected them.


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blahpers wrote:
RoseCrown wrote:
CrimsonVixen wrote:

And the we have the issue of succubus lovers, concubines, and harems. <snip>

I may be missing some other option, but it seems that either Succubi are chaste asexual seducers, or they can control the drain.

Just wanted to chime in that I support this logic.

A succubus that cannot control her Energy Drain makes little to no sense to me.
Never read The Dresden Files, I take it?

But is Dresden Files written with that element in mind, or are people keeping Succubi harems, summoning them for flings, and having fun or falling in love?


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Pathfinder 2.0 is still a couple years out, so we have enough time to be thorough. Though the promise of new toys to play with sounds quite tempting. If there will be changes to grappling, level drain, and how things will convert over.


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And the we have the issue of succubus lovers, concubines, and harems. Seen in many APs, and a focus or prominent part in no less than two(Wrath of the Righteous and Shattered Star), not to mention the upcoming Return of the Runelords, staring our favorite not-a-succubus succubus, Sorshen. Even if you have the will save beyond high, you still have a 1-in-20 fail rate on the seduction. I can’t picture the BBEG keeping a plaything around that will kill them in less than two minutes.

The level drain is part of the effect, the seduction to get more kisses/continue the act of passions is will save dependent. The ability’s stat block, as written support an automatic trigger on an act of passion; however, every other bit of rules, lore, and AP content support an at-will.

Noticula has a 2 level drain on mythic and 1d6+4 levels on non-mythic. I know she’s on the cusp of Godhood and slays demon lord rivals, but doing them in before the make out even gets warmed up? Plus how many adventures have the possibility of the player being rewarded by a succubus’ company?

I may be missing some other option, but it seems that either Succubi are chaste asexual seducers, or they can control the drain.


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The big question I'm still confused on, is if Energy Drain is automatic/reflexive or conscious/at-will. I've always played it as a conscious decision on the part of the succubus. This has led to the entertaining situations of undercover succubi, including one who was an NPC within the party for almost three months before almost causing a TPK with a well placed betrayal.

I am aware that some succubi, including the famed Arueshalae lack the control they have, but they also are in the process of redemption and have an element of chastity with their attempt to 'go good'. A lot of the source material talk about how succubi plan and plot their moves, they wait for those right moments before bringing their targets down in a dramatic, soul breaking moment. It would be a lot harder to stay hidden like that if every kiss resulted in a lethal draining.

I'm in the process of cleaning my room and can't access my book, but how would the various levels of NPC Aristocrat fare against a stock Succubus? Obviously a first level is dead on a single kiss, but what about a 7th, 11th, or 17th level Aristocrat, what are the odds of them handling the will saves from those kisses and seduction skills?


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Freehold DM wrote:
I can't believe I'm saying this, but let's keep things rated pg, folks...

PG-13? And we've resolved a number of issues through this process (this is the Rules Questions forum...)

  • A succubus has to be in control of the grapple to initiate Energy Drain.
  • Acts of Passion are relative to the succubus, grapplee, players, and GM.
  • If a player snickers, giggles, blushes, or is otherwise visibly embarrassed or aroused, the character's action qualifies as an 'act of passion' for the purpose of Energy Drain.
  • A number of useful and creative magic items
  • A house-rule variation of the Energy Drain death-effect, where an individual slain by a Succubus' Energy Drain will be reborn in the Abyss as a new Succubus.

We still have a couple unresolved/controversial issues. If a Succubus is vulnerable to the Energy Drain of a fellow Succubus. Is the use of Energy Drain during an act of passion an automatic or conscious result. And if an asexual individual is immune to a Succubus' abilities.


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Lathiira wrote:
*throws lasso around CrimsonVixen to keep her in the thread again*

I presume you have another research project you want to tie me up with?


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willuwontu wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Not really, that would be at a -20 and not viable.

You could potentially have a high enough CMB that it is (not till way past CR appropriate though), but regardless, I was saying that it is a thing for them.

Now the real question is, does using Chokehold on a Succubus count as an act of passion?

The Green Ronin book Plot and Poison has a prestige class that makes it an act of passion. Barring that, if you have consent, I have made myself familiar with the suffocation/breath-holding rule section of the environmental hazards.


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9,000gp will get you Protective Penumbra on a piece of armor.


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And of course, since my campaign is barely balancing on the rails at the moment. One of my players has decided that since there may be a long time before he can rescue his wife, and he may not be able to redeem her, he's gonna hook up with the succubus they captured and bargained with. Just a platonic 'scratching mutual itches'.

The question is, is a Succubus' Energy Drain an at-will, reflexive, or automatic thing? They are both willing, so grapples are not needed.


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Lathiira wrote:
Alexandros Satorum wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

I don't know....I can see a grappler managing a succubus-proof hold...

Attack from behind, grappler's arms up under the succubus' arms, reaching back and pulling those arms back, reach back under the succubus' wings, push them up, hands on the back of the succubus' head, holding that down, pin to the ground,...

After all these years, I hadn't noticed how Mikaze's words can be interpreted totally the opposite he intended to.
Tried that with Crimson, forgot about the tail....

That tail is a tricky thing isn't it? Certainly can provide a...circumstance bonus to escape artist checks?.


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Umbral Reaver wrote:
Is it okay to use Summon Monster just to get a likely outsider's number so you can call them later?

Depends on the GM of the game you're in. I've had to tell my players that "Summon Booty Call" is not a spell in the book.


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Adjoint wrote:
When a succubus is grappling a porcupine, why she's not taking any damage from the quills? I know she has Damage Reduction, but what actually happens?
Cevah wrote:

I bet it feels more like a bath loofah and the spines give pleasurable stimulation.

/cevah

Succubus, Porcupine

Succubus' CMB is +11, Porcupine's CMD is 9. The Porcupine is being pinned. The tail slap being 1d3 damage, on a critical will do 6 damage at most(20/x2), can't get through the Succubi's DR 10/Cold iron or Good(Porcupine is True Neutral).

My money is on a sensation similar to a Wartenberg Wheel or Vampire Gloves.


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VRMH wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
I'd rather just get a bike...

Hm. A Succubus on a motorcycle. Leather-clad, of course. Revving, inviting you to hop on...

You'd have to grapple her just to hold on for dear life!

Kickstarter Sophie from Reaper. I need to finish painting it, and then the hard part, finding a game where a latex-clad succubus on a motorcycle is an appropriate character.


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Lathiira wrote:
CrimsonVixen wrote:
Lathiira wrote:
Suggest it to Nocticula as a way to pass the time for an afternoon? Let her make the arrangements.
I'm throwing this in as a call-out in my WotR game. When they get to the palace and the big meeting "You interrupted a very important series of experiments."
Ooo, can I have a cameo? Please? Pretty please? With a cherry and sugar and whip cream on top?

Consider the cameo approved. Helping out the Queen of the Succubi. I'll stat something up for a suitable encounter when we get to the meat of book four.


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Lathiira wrote:
Suggest it to Nocticula as a way to pass the time for an afternoon? Let her make the arrangements.

I'm throwing this in as a call-out in my WotR game. When they get to the palace and the big meeting "You interrupted a very important series of experiments."


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William Werminster wrote:
Can a monk succubus flurryblow you while grappled with her.... ahem... you know?

If you are the one in control of the grapple, she can make use her full-attack action to Flurry-of-blows at -2 to hit.

If she is the one in control of the grapple, she can not as she requires a standard action to maintain the grapple and Flurry-of-blows requires a full-attack.


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I told my players point-blank before a session, going forward, if they giggle, snicker, or otherwise make suggestive comments or innuendo concerning their characters current actions involving a succubus; it will count as an act of passion for their Energy Drain ability. It cuts down on the already excessive level of color commentary, as well as the pesky risk of alignment shifting. The Paladin tank already sees grappling succubi as a valid method of keeping them from attacking the party.

Sissyl wrote:
Can a succubus wearing masterwork manacles exercise acts of passion? Does this change if the victim is helpless?

As a bottom or submissive, no. The rules on their energy drain explicitly state "An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability." If they are the Top or Dominant, they will require a Conductive weapon(whip, flail, flogger, etc) in order to use the drain without directly contacting the bottom/submissive.

As a 2-time GM of Wrath of the Righteous(a succubus-heavy campaign), I would rule a helpless victim will be a valid target for Energy Drain, as they would be unable to fight back, in the same way a succubus is required to grapple or pin the target.

ShroudedInLight wrote:

Deathward is a Paladin spell...

Say, do you think a Redeemer Paladin would attempt to redeem a succubus? Asking for a friend.

Yes, if the succubus has demonstrated the possibility of redemption. WotR has that as a major plot point in it, as well as the repeated occurrence of other potentially redeemable succubi.


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For those of you in this thread who are wondering if this stuff is actually relevant in game. The answer is yes. I inherited a Wrath of the Righteous campaign, and due to player backstories, I replaced one of the mythic fights to fit that player's backstory.

Long story short, the Paladin is now pinned by two mythic succubi bards, the Magus and Bard have been dominated and told to run away, the demon-hating Ranger has already been charmed to be friendly to the harem of succubi, and the Oracle has just gotten out of the cage trap she was teleported into.

The conclusions we went on, it's easy to hand-wave the 'act of passion' requirement when the target has the "pinned" condition. In other cases, it simply requires touch-range, and the act must be one that the target/PC considers to be passionate or intimate.


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I may be chaotic evil, but there are some crimes that are just too evil for me. Not sharing my lust is one of those.


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This brings to mind an interesting concept. All the 'official' redeemed Succubi we've seen seem to have celibacy as a defining trait, like the energy drain is an automatic reaction to passionate activities. Is this an implication that the energy drain happens regardless of will when the Succubus is in an act of passion, or simply that the Succubi attempting to redeem themselves avoid intimacy to avoid the temptation of 'falling off the wagon' so to speak?

The first case seems to render the thread moot, as simply grappling a Succubus would not be an act of passion and not cause energy drain. The Succubus would be required to pin the PC to engage in a qualifying act.

The second case if it is actually a willful decision to energy drain in a passionate act, could this mean that it is possible to have a sex-positive redeemed Succubus? One that sees the 'evil-act' to be the draining, not the passion.


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Calistria Paladin against a Succubus? Sounds interesting. Where would be the best place to put a campaign report where a Succubus Bard/Rogue who's a devoted lover/worshiper of Nocticula gets into a fight with a Succubus Priestess of Calistria that turns into a proxy fight for Nocty and Calistria herself?

And the solution to detect evil? Angelskin leather catsuit, I mean armor.


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Sissyl wrote:
And this is why succubi don't usually wear shirts.

Full dexterity bonus to AC, plus Seductive Aura(ex)? Oh, and never underestimate the utility of unnatural lust when luring adventurers or dates into a kiss.


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Cevah wrote:


If I am not mistaken, the ring isn't just an ordinary ring, in fact it is a nipple ring!

Nipples are a very very sensitive nub of flesh. Sharp serrated things through them tends to be closer to the uncomfortable pain.

And Selena Halfblood? Are you writing more? That little story of the succubus and her lady lich lover is a nice teaser.


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I'm sure I can charm enough people with my demonstrations. I just need some volunteers.

As for that full nelson, unless you have multiple arms, good luck spanking, and there are some succubi who do like it a little rough.


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That was the item I was going to enter into the superstar contest(Work issues interfered ><). Nocticula's Embrace, a black latex corset dress that granted diplomacy/intimidation bonus, whip proficiency, and charm monster/suggestion SLAs.


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Rope, plastic wrap, latex, leather, anything works. And you mean "helpless" in the contents of the rules.

Sin of Asmodeus wrote:
...Okay, we are grappled. We both have the grappled condition, with you being the grappler, so I um. Level drain you.

Lose a level, and I need a DC 26 will save or you smack me again for another level down. As for unconsciousness, I'm not sure what kind of spankings you've been doing, but subspace is just as effective as mild concussions for going out.

The Random Gamemaster wrote:
you could beat her till she bleeds to death....but then you don't have a toy to play with anymore

This is one of the first things you learn in the community. You break the toy, you're obligated to put it back together.


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What do you mean helpless?! We said chains, not a mummy wrap! If you're going to be getting out the alignment weapons for this, I'm not going to hold back the level draining. It's not as easy as it looks to hit a bound target!


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Axial wrote:
Send your most fearsome to do battle against me, lords of the Abyss! I will bravely fight her head-on, wrestle the vile fiend into submission, bind her with chains of justice, put her over my knee and deliver punishment until she repents for her evil ways and -oh, wait? What was I talking about again? *blushes*

Oh crap! I didn't even think of that till now. Non-lethal damage and alignment-based weapons. Monk's unarmed blows count as lawful weapons at 10th level, as well as gaining traits to bypass DR. Is it still possible to do non-lethal damage with a lawful cold-iron weapon/fist(well, open palm in this case ~giggle~)?.


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Choon wrote:

<Crazy Legalese Omitted>

P.S.: We like that Cevah guy. You should totally bring him in.

You have an interesting idea, however matters such as grappling and toy-augmented grappling tend to be a little bit unpredictable under too rigorous experimental conditions. Also, I'm a Chaotic-evil demon with Greater Whip Mastery and all the pre-reqs for the Pain-Taster PrC. Now if that funding involves sacrificial offerings, I mean research partners, and there is some flexibility with publishing timelines and open peer-review, I might be willing to give it a try.


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Lathiira wrote:
I'm thinking cevah needs to run a shop that sells concessions, which include items designed in/for this thread. Vixen's merciful shocking weaponry should be at the top of the list.

Wand of Merciful Shocking Grasp? They would be affordable, I'll even paint them no charge. How's Violet sound?


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Cevah wrote:

...Until then, I think it best if we get used to eachother's ways when it comes to business. I will be happy to explain some of the tricks used on rubes, and how to maximize profits with the least risk. Making adventurers angry is a way to maximize risk, and I prefer to avoid such situations.

One of the ways I help my business it to have numerous Bards on the payroll. They are great about telling the wonderful stories of my merchandise, as well as informing me of where the market is heading. In fact, it was from them I learned of Nale and Sabine...You have assets I cannot match, and are certainly gifted with your speech, I would welcome such a friend.

I have always been ambitious, but I can be patient. I would be pleased to have a friend of your skill and fame. I hope I can aid your business ventures successfully.

Tacticslion wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:

That's the beauty of summoning them magically... they have to do what you say, no questions asked.

In any case, since it is based off of using the Mount spell, I wonder if they keep the bit and bridle?

Yes.

I looked that over and some other things, they would serve as a mount willing and well, beyond that is up for debate, and we are intelligent creatures with formidable wills and effective close-combat techniques. As for the bit and bridle, some of us already have them, though we're not usually the one wearing them.


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Nessa Meretrix wrote:

Nessa slides up behind Cevah and does her best to distract him during his attempted negotiations whispering lies in his ears.

[bluff 24]

Sense Motive: 1d20 + 16 ⇒ (14) + 16 = 30

Cevah wrote:
Now, where were we CrimsonVixen?

I do believe she was trying to prevent me from giving you this lovely little profane gift of mine. ~Offers her hand to Cevah.~ So what do you say? Accept my gift?

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