Crimson68's page

I'm currently playing the serpents skull adventure path.
I'm normally the dm in my group and I have to be honest I'm not enjoying it.
We are in book three from what I understand and it's getting very messy. it's obvious to me the dm is having to make so much up and the city is ridiculous. The set up to this is weak and the place is hardly a lost city it's full of groups.
Our group doesn't easily get distracted but it just feels like a ramble with no direction.
Now I admire what our dming is trying to do and I don't want this to sound as sour grapes but how would any of you suggest I tell him.
As you can appreciate I'm in a tricky situation....

Thank you to everyone for there wonderful comments and points of view excellent stuff!!

Why should it?

Cleave is a godawful level 1 entry-level feat.

Whirlwind Attack is a super-pricy (in pre-requisites) mid-level feat that's supposed to replace your full attack.

It already sucks bad enough, between the massive amount of horrible pre-requisites, making you give up bonus attacks (like from haste), and forcing you to attack each foe no more than once when the entire game is built upon Critical Existence Failure and strongly encourages you to focus fire the hell out of one enemy at a time till they're dead (because until then, any turns you spent wailing on the foe have done jack **** to reduce its ability to harm you).

Why on earth should it be made even worse?

Could I ask

Isn't whirlwind attack a tactical players choice.

After all you can still just use your normal attacks on one person but there are situations when having many attacks is also very good.
And your attacks are at there best bab.
I appreciate the point about what you give give to get the feat but it has it's uses especially with a high crit weapon.
Or is there something I'm missing...

Crimson68 wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Also, you can only draw out a weapon during a NORMAL move if you have base attack bonus +1 or higher. I think you are also permitted to do it during a charge as well.

Yes you can do it as part of a charge for reference for anyone following the thread.

But only if you are moving less than your normal movement. A normal charge allows up to twice your movement rate.

True !! Sorry I failed to add that thank you for doing so...

Also, you can only draw out a weapon during a NORMAL move if you have base attack bonus +1 or higher. I think you are also permitted to do it during a charge as well.

Yes you can do it as part of a charge for reference for anyone following the thread.

That's a whole bunch of different things you're combining there, Crimson68.

A 5ft step is not an action. That said, you are not allowed to make a 5ft step in any round that you have actually moved (as in changed squares).

If you have BAB +1 or higher, you are permitted to draw a weapon DURING a move. If your BAB is +0, you cannot, so you have to draw a weapon AS a move.

Examples:

1} A 1st-level fighter isn't near his target. He uses a move action to move 30ft to be beside his target. During that move, he draws his weapon (BAB +1). Having arrived, he makes an attack as a standard action. He cannot make a 5ft during this round because he moved 30ft.

2} A 1st-level cleric isn't near his target. He uses a move action to move 30ft to be beside his target. He cannot draw his weapon during that move (BAB +0). Once he arrives, he uses a move-equivalent action to draw his weapon. He is now done his turn, and also cannot make a 5ft during this round because he moved 30ft.

3} A fighter is beside his target. He uses a move-equivalent action to draw his weapon then makes a single attack as a standard action. He can then make a 5ft-step if that is tactically beneficial. He did not actually MOVE despite using a move-equivalent action so is allowed that 5ft-step.

4} A fighter with Quickdraw is beside his target. He uses the feat to draw his weapon as a free action then can make a full-attack. During his multiple attacks he drops his target and sees another 5ft away. He can make his 5ft-step to get beside the second target and continue his full-attack routine.

So, bottom line is these are all different things working together. Whirlwind Attack is just a full-attack so yes, you can 5ft in the middle of it. You can swap the order of your actions as you wish. Normally you can't interrupt an action (you can't make your standard action attack in the middle of your 30ft move unless you have the Spring Attack feat for instance) but the 5ft step is specifically allowed to happen during...

All very useful examples!! Thank you

In order....

Correct.
Correct.
Yes.
Correct.
Yes.
Nope.
Yes.

Great !! That's very reassuring

I read in the core book that' it's counted as a non action.

By that I mean it's not considered an actual move action.

So a person with a bab of +1 has to use a move action to draw a weapon.

Meaning they can either use one final move action or standard action they can't full round attack

I assume that's what the feat quick draw is for?

I not missing anything am I?

Also if some one is using whirlwind attack can they during any part of the attack five foot step?

Kind regards in advance

A simple fighter build:

With 20 point buy you can get Str 17 easily. Then get a race with a str bonus. Con is score nr2.

Armor of choice is breastplate. Full plate at 7th level.

Weapons:
Falchion.
Composite bow.

Feats:
Power attack.
Weapon focus.
(Iron will if human)

Use class feats to build weapon spec. Imp foc. Grt spec. Decide if you want cleave.
Make sure you get improved crit.

Use level based feats to build initiative, saves.

Once you've got the bare nessessities consider trip or archery. Even if your dex is low your bab will make up for it.

If you can get the GM to allow feats from APG you might want furious focus.

That's pretty much it. Get items that help your movement, saves and your damage/strength.

great advice thank you!!

Great advice so far

As for any role play skills we have to Roleplay them which I like...

So it's all about the build...

What are the other people playing? How many are you ect.

There will be five players

The dm asks for players to build on there own away from each other.

20 point buy....

The reason I ask is my group is made up of great tactical players who can build with the best of them,however I can't.
We will soon be starting a new campaign and I don't want to lag behind I would like to surprise them.
Could someone please help !!

Thank you for your replies most useful!!

Hi everyone,

I can see a number of ways to get this feat as a fourth level fighter.

From a tactical point of view I think this feat has a number of benefits.

Could someone please help me see if I am missing something, is it good or a bad choice....

Hi there all pathfinder people!!

This is not a negative however do you feel that this rpg encourages both good knowledge of the rules and the ability of the player to min max to create a great character.

I ask because there is a massive difference between characters that are well thought through to create brilliant synergies throughout there build and those that are thrown together. Or more to the point not thought through.

I'm curious to your thoughts on this ...